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Render Unto Moloch (M:tAw)

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ctulhuslp said:
I am not knowledgeable about the system and those who are (like, IIRC, you) tend to be fond of it, so I assume it can interact with the normal world in such ways quite frequently, right?
Or, if not: why makes them interesting then?
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In general? 'Cause it's a cool toolkit for fleshing out a shadow-world that's pretty intuitive and generates a lot of hooks for stories, villains, and support characters. It's kinda the exact opposite of the oWoD cosmology in a way because that's just this weird tumor of "first we need to talk about parallel dimensions" and you need a, like, three credit hour course to properly understand. It's got some basic rules and once you know the gist (which is basically Escorp's post tbh) you can extrapolate it to nearly anything. And it's just kinda fun for a story going "okay so what's X like in the shadow".

Speaking wrt how it might play out in a London-based Mage Chronicle? Per Shadows of the UK the Gauntlet, the barrier between our world and the spirit world is reeaaaally thin. And since the Shadow/Hisil/Whatever has a longer "memory" (that is, shit that doesn't exist in our world anymore still might exist there, like a forest that's clear cut to put up a new housing complex) and is expressed in abstract it's a good launching point for weird fun shit. Streets that don't always exist and everyone just kinda accepts that they do when they do and tries not to think about it when they don't. Places and people that are subtly wrong because they're subtly not all real, buildings that still bear the scars of fire, streets paved over the bones of the dead, neighbors who aren't quite human. It's how you get stuff like "there used to be a river here but it was filled with concrete, now something's either drowning people in the apartment complex above or smothering them in fresh poured cement" or "this fucked up nursery rhyme/local legend got a fresh lease on life from the internet and isn't interested in dying just yet".

It's got a lot of shades of Silent Hill's otherworld tbh.

A Thrysus has a pretty unique toolkit for engaging with all this. They can communicate with the Shadow, call upon spirits as allies and impart them into animate and inanimate objects. It means they can do shit like bribe the local cameras to forget they saw them or ask a house what happened within it. And a spirit-familiar is a fun thing to have around just for character interactions.

ganonso said:
A propos @Maugan Ra It's your quest but I think Life would still be important to Thyrsus in an urban environment. The cycles of the bodies, the adaptation of nature and the city, healing, sacred ecstasy beyond what society enables are part of what is to be a Ecstastic after all.
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also getting a rockin' sixpack

i mean i'm pretty that's, like, the main initial hook for life ;v
 
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Stormwhite said:
I have a very important system question.

What happens if you dramatically fail an attempt to summon an Abyssal being? Is it the inverse of dramatically failing to summon a Supernal being?

"oh hi uriel i actually intended to summon anumerus but i guess the fire of god will have to do. can u help me fuck up math"
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Yeah no.
If you mess up while messing with the abyss you are lucky if you just rip a hole where the laws of physic don't work as intended.
Dealing with the abyss is just straight up a bad idea.
Think less Satan and more Dread Ctuthlu... Except that the Abyss hates you and all of excistance so...
Pretty much the only thing that both the Seers and the Pentacle agree on is that any and all mages that intentionally deal with the Abyss should be destroyed with extreme prejudice and frankly for a very good reason.
 
TenfoldShields said:
In general? 'Cause it's a cool toolkit for fleshing out a shadow-world that's pretty intuitive and generates a lot of hooks for stories, villains, and support characters. It's kinda the exact opposite of the oWoD cosmology in a way because that's just this weird tumor of "first we need to talk about parallel dimensions" and you need a, like, three credit hour course to properly understand. It's got some basic rules and once you know the gist (which is basically Escorp's post tbh) you can extrapolate it to nearly anything. And it's just kinda fun for a story going "okay so what's X like in the shadow".

Speaking wrt how it might play out in a London-based Mage Chronicle? Per Shadows of the UK the Gauntlet, the barrier between our world and the spirit world is reeaaaally thin. And since the Shadow/Hisil/Whatever has a longer "memory" (that is, shit that doesn't exist in our world anymore still might exist there, like a forest that's clear cut to put up a new housing complex) and is expressed in abstract it's a good launching point for weird fun shit. Streets that don't always exist and everyone just kinda accepts that they do when they do and tries not to think about it when they don't. Places and people that are subtly wrong because they're subtly not all real, buildings that still bear the scars of fire, streets paved over the bones of the dead, neighbors who aren't quite human. It's how you get stuff like "there used to be a river here but it was filled with concrete, now something's either drowning people in the apartment complex above or smothering them in fresh poured cement" or "this fucked up nursery rhyme/local legend got a fresh lease on life from the internet and isn't interested in dying just yet".

It's got a lot of shades of Silent Hill's otherworld tbh.

A Thrysus has a pretty unique toolkit for engaging with all this. They can communicate with the Shadow, call upon spirits as allies and impart them into animate and inanimate objects. It means they can do shit like bribe the local cameras to forget they saw them or ask a house what happened within it. And a spirit-familiar is a fun thing to have around just for character interactions.



also getting a rockin' sixpack

i mean i'm pretty that's, like, the main hook for life ;v
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Okay you convinced me.
Guess I am a sucker for everchangibg environment and interconnected stuff and liked the imagery of yours (as always, your imagery in general and cities specifically is great somehow).

[X] A Zoo; you walk between exhibits and around the edge of great enclosures, studying and being studied in turn. Here a horde of rats dig a warren in broken stone, there a flight of pigeons wheel back and forth between a hundred wooden aviaries. There are people all around you, cooing and laughing over the antics of those they came to observe, but they cannot see what you can. The horizon has sprouted bars, and from beyond giants with eyes of fire watch you with an inquisitive gaze.

[X] A Church; there is a priest and congregation, of course, but they are made of wax and wood. True faith left this place behind years ago, and now only the light remains. It streams down from on high, broken and repainted by windows of stained glass that stretch almost to the ceiling, and under its touch you could almost fool yourself into thinking the withered mannequins are strong and vital once again.


Although tbf I am half-sure those are all legal schools of though and Zoo means 'we think about laws mostly through lens of natural law' or something.
 
Ephemeral_Dreamer said:
Yeah no.
If you mess up while messing with the abyss you are lucky if you just rip a hole where the laws of physic don't work as intended.
Dealing with the abyss is just straight up a bad idea.
Think less Satan and more Dread Ctuthlu... Except that the Abyss hates you and all of excistance so...
Pretty much the only thing that both the Seers and the Pentacle agree on is that any and all mages that intentionally deal with the Abyss should be destroyed with extreme prejudice and frankly for a very good reason.
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Okay but here's the thing. Dramatically failing an attempt to summon a Supernal being summons an Abyssal one.

Logically then, dramatically failing an attempt to summon an Abyssal being should summon a Supernal being!

ctulhuslp said:
Okay you convinced me.
Guess I am a sucker for everchangibg environment and interconnected stuff and liked the imagery of yours (as always, your imagery in general and cities specifically is great somehow).

[X] A Zoo; you walk between exhibits and around the edge of great enclosures, studying and being studied in turn. Here a horde of rats dig a warren in broken stone, there a flight of pigeons wheel back and forth between a hundred wooden aviaries. There are people all around you, cooing and laughing over the antics of those they came to observe, but they cannot see what you can. The horizon has sprouted bars, and from beyond giants with eyes of fire watch you with an inquisitive gaze.

[X] A Church; there is a priest and congregation, of course, but they are made of wax and wood. True faith left this place behind years ago, and now only the light remains. It streams down from on high, broken and repainted by windows of stained glass that stretch almost to the ceiling, and under its touch you could almost fool yourself into thinking the withered mannequins are strong and vital once again.


Although tbf I am half-sure those are all legal schools of though and Zoo means 'we think about laws mostly through lens of natural law' or something.
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Wait shit, Manus writing about ius naturale will be hilarious and I can meme on it. Swapping votes.

[X] A Zoo; you walk between exhibits and around the edge of great enclosures, studying and being studied in turn. Here a horde of rats dig a warren in broken stone, there a flight of pigeons wheel back and forth between a hundred wooden aviaries. There are people all around you, cooing and laughing over the antics of those they came to observe, but they cannot see what you can. The horizon has sprouted bars, and from beyond giants with eyes of fire watch you with an inquisitive gaze.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by notanautomaton on Feb 16, 2018 at 12:37 PM, finished with 131 posts and 50 votes.
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LastChronicler said:
The only sensible option here is Moros.

How else is James to pay back all of his hefty University fees except by Alchemy?
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Using Forces to alter bank records. Using Fate to win the lottery. Using Mind to convince people to give you money. Honestly Thyrsus are the only ones who don't have ludicrously easy ways to make money with their Arcana. Not to say that they don't have any, just that it requires getting inventive.
 
Joebobjoe said:
Using Forces to alter bank records. Using Fate to win the lottery. Using Mind to convince people to give you money. Honestly Thyrsus are the only ones who don't have ludicrously easy ways to make money with their Arcana. Not to say that they don't have any, just that it requires getting inventive.
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Bribing the spirit of the college with magical services until it forgives our debts?

Seeing as how we can bribe street cameras to forget us, interacting with spirits in that manner does seem like it'd have an effect on the real world.
 
Alright then, Manus and I have decided that the vote shall be called in One Hour.

If you have any additional reasons to present, votes to make or choices to change, now is the time.
 
A Maugan and Manus Mage quest? Yeah, I'm getting in on this.

[X] A Zoo; you walk between exhibits and around the edge of great enclosures, studying and being studied in turn. Here a horde of rats dig a warren in broken stone, there a flight of pigeons wheel back and forth between a hundred wooden aviaries. There are people all around you, cooing and laughing over the antics of those they came to observe, but they cannot see what you can. The horizon has sprouted bars, and from beyond giants with eyes of fire watch you with an inquisitive gaze.

The idea of dealing with London/English spirit stuff is super appealing to me. I also want to try and see if we can get a Church-Grim (or something like it) as an Ally. Also, being able to control your need for sleep and food is a useful skill in general, and particularly for Uni students.

[X] A Church; there is a priest and congregation, of course, but they are made of wax and wood. True faith left this place behind years ago, and now only the light remains. It streams down from on high, broken and repainted by windows of stained glass that stretch almost to the ceiling, and under its touch you could almost fool yourself into thinking the withered mannequins are strong and vital once again.

I admit, I'm mostly voting this for the imagery - a ruined church stuffed by fake believers, lit by stained glass? Lovely stuff. Though Obrimos are pretty cool - Forces is nice and so is Prime.

About the title. It's a reference to the Bible quote "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars" and to Moloch - a Canaanite god associated with child sacrifice.

Moloch also came to be linked to capitalism, via the child-sacrifice angle, during the Industrial Revolution, due to the heavy use of child labour and the low safety standards.

So, kind of an eerie title. Probably linked to us being in the centre of the Eye's dominion - we're going to be dealing with Seers and they are very much going to be in a dominant position.

The Seers are also heavily linked with capitalism - the Exarchs are basically the biggest corporate fat cats around, and their trickle down actually kind of works for the people at the bottom of the pyramid. The Seers also have a Merit (which I forget the name of) that gives them the potential to be even richer than a Resources 5 character - albeit at the cost of not being completely in control of it. James (I literally know someone called James Green that's fucking eerie), in contrast, is economically disadvantaged.
 
Who? said:
The Seers are also heavily linked with capitalism - the Exarchs are basically the biggest corporate fat cats around, and their trickle down actually kind of works for the people at the bottom of the pyramid. The Seers also have a Merit (which I forget the name of) that gives them the potential to be even richer than a Resources 5 character - albeit at the cost of not being completely in control of it. James (I literally know someone called James Green that's fucking eerie), in contrast, is economically disadvantaged.
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wait so we can be communist lawyers?
....


can we be communist catboys with Thyrsus?
 
Ephemeral_Dreamer said:
Yeah no.
If you mess up while messing with the abyss you are lucky if you just rip a hole where the laws of physic don't work as intended.
Dealing with the abyss is just straight up a bad idea.
Think less Satan and more Dread Ctuthlu... Except that the Abyss hates you and all of excistance so...
Pretty much the only thing that both the Seers and the Pentacle agree on is that any and all mages that intentionally deal with the Abyss should be destroyed with extreme prejudice and frankly for a very good reason.
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Why do you think i hate the knights of saint george so much they are quite literally freeing an abyssal to run amok over the centuries of rites to it in exchange for their anti mage powers

Stormwhite said:
Okay but here's the thing. Dramatically failing an attempt to summon a Supernal being summons an Abyssal one.

Logically then, dramatically failing an attempt to summon an Abyssal being should summon a Supernal being!
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Why not just try and summon a supernal being off the bat then try and hope for a crit fail on summoning an abyssal

ctulhuslp said:
wait so we can be communist lawyers?
....


can we be communist catboys with Thyrsus?
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the seers of the throne are more like mega hitler and are the only real groups I can think of(on the street level anyway) aside from ashwood abbey that are utterly evil without reservation no matter if youre the player of them or not, and are very open in that knowledge of being completely horrible and evil except for one out of four major groups of seers, or in complete and utter freaking denial about it.
 
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Rjrulew said:
the seers of the throne are more like mega hitler and are the only real groups I can think of(on the street level anyway) aside from ashwood abbey that are utterly evil without reservation no matter if youre the player of them or not, and are very open in that knowledge of being completely horrible and evil except for one out of four major groups of seers, or in complete and utter freaking denial about it.
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Oh? What makes the Seers so evil, may I ask?
 
Stormwhite said:
Oh? What makes the Seers so evil, may I ask?
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they are working for the guys who destroyed atlantis just so they could be the only ones with magic
one of the divisions motto is " utopia is attainable humanity must never know that" I.E a perfect world is possible and they don't like that idea since they wouldn't be in charge so they avert that by keeping humanity divided.
Another division of the main four wants to 1984 all of the universe so that no one can ever make moves against them
One literally governs violence and making sure that humanity is violent to never reach enlightenment by making things like Wars serial killing etc. and pushing people in general to be assholes and hurt each other so they can't focus on important issues like medicine and the like.
the fourth is the insanely self deluded and wants to genocide every non seer who is part of the masquerade since they buy into the hype that all others supernals are wrong and should not exist. So literal mega hitlers who have magic.
 
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Stormwhite said:
Oh? What makes the Seers so evil, may I ask?
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The Seers of the Throne serve the Exarchs. What are the Exarchs? The symbols of tyranny who uttered into being and in truth things like: "The Afterlife is only open to the elect, and not you."; "Power is based on violence" and "Everything has a price." The Seers of the Throne worship them and serve as their hands in the mortal world.

The world their masters have made a Lie and a prison for the human soul. If Mage the Awakening setting is Plato's Cave (an imperfect but mostly apt allegory), our character is glimpsing the light shining outside the cave while the Seers, having seen the light work to turn people away from it.
 
ganonso said:
The Seers of the Throne serve the Exarchs. What are the Exarchs? The symbols of tyranny who uttered into being and in truth things like: "The Afterlife is only open to the elect, and not you."; "Power is based on violence" and "Everything has a price." The Seers of the Throne worship them and serve as their hands in the mortal world.

The world their masters have made a Lie and a prison for the human soul. If Mage the Awakening setting is Plato's Cave (an imperfect but mostly apt allegory), our character is glimpsing the light shining outside the cave while the Seers, having seen the light work to turn people away from it.
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(im just adding to what you have)
and they do that by actively making humanity worse by making it so paranoid and brutal regimes like north korea and nazi germany exist as well as serial killings mass shooting s probably famine and diseases too so as to keep humanity as a whole from actually experiencing light and becoming a race of super wizards. Basically their chaos from 40k and actively causing humanity to suck so that they can benefit with the added suck of being unified in that pursuit.
edit actually their worse then chaos since most cultists genuinely believe their doing a holy and therefore correct act. The seers know what their doing is horrible and wrong, they just don't give two shits.
 
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Vote Called.

Looks like Zoo wins, so dear old James is going to walk the path of the Thyrsus! Your ruling Arcana are Life and Spirit; yours is the role of the shaman, the one who walks both sides of the Gauntlet and treats with the beings found in each place as an equal. Your inferior Arcanum is that of the Mind; magic of that kind requires that you think of your consciousness as something distinct from both body and soul, a point of distinction that does not come easily.
 
Trade them pieces of wonder bread for knowledge of secret dimensions or the best roofs to poop from.

I'm looking forward to this quest a lot. I should probably read the Mage book to not be clueless completely.
 
Maugan Ra said:
Vote Called.

Looks like Zoo wins, so dear old James is going to walk the path of the Thyrsus! Your ruling Arcana are Life and Spirit; yours is the role of the shaman, the one who walks both sides of the Gauntlet and treats with the beings found in each place as an equal. Your inferior Arcanum is that of the Mind; magic of that kind requires that you think of your consciousness as something distinct from both body and soul, a point of distinction that does not come easily.
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Gotta say city Thyrsus sounds amazing
On the bright side, we can be the swolest law student in the Uni, right?
 
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