Red Comet (Valstrax SI)- A Monster-Hunter crossover
- Thread starter Mr. Cloak
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- Vietnam
- Pronouns
- He
He totally could shoot from his other side to balance himself.
Then he could spin around like a fidget spinner, with extra laser.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
You know what you did Alduin. When your god tells you to end the world, you're supposed to end the world, not conquer it!
e:
I'm going to have nightmares about fidget spinner pickles now.
Because what pickles need is a fucking death blossom attack.
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This mental image is hiliarous, in a "I'm kind of glad I don't live in that world." way.I'm going to have nightmares about fidget spinner pickles now.
Because what pickles need is a fucking death blossom attack.
This attack would best be viewed from a distance or from strong cover.
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Mr. Cloak
Orchestrator of Paradoxical Apocalypse
- Pronouns
- I
Will do!
Yeah- he can. Thing is, there won't be any impitus for him to do so for a little while. After all, Alduin is used to a world where magic is ambiently availible and common... Not where it's locked up in lands and monsters.
Clarification; Valstrax have 3 'reactors'- one in their chest, and one in each wing-wrist. Father!Dragon was slain because one of his wrist-reactors was breached.... And no- Valstrax can attack and fly at the same time, with Thu'um, but they can't smoothly breathe dragon-element because their entire resperatory system is designed to have an optimized flowthrough in through the chest & mouth, and out through the thrusters. They can't fire projectiles normally because their WINGS are used for both propulsion and projectile offense.
Multiple wings would be interesting- but as a player of Kerbal Space Program, I can say that there are OTHER intresting uses for flesh-shaping that you may have missed... But on the idea of new thrusters, why not have several small exhausts as well as large ones? Think combo tiny blades and harrier-style jumpjets perhaps?
Valstrax cannot glide unless their wings got a LOT bigger. As a dragon, they are about half-again as heavy as other similar-sized wyverns (half-again as heavy as a Bazelgeuse), so their wings would need to be a LOT bigger. They do have vestigial wing-membranes, but they are very thick in order to have MUSCLES to help control the shape of the wing-thrusters.
Xeno'Jiva is more... Plot-centric than that... You shall see- mwahahahaha!
Kushala Daora and other critter bits being coopted- what Alduin did was not 'change self with certain parameters in place'. It was more like 'beg magic to make him something like how he was'. Horrible things can happen with flesh-shaping shouts if your mental image is not exactly accurate.
When I wrote that bit, I flipped a coin to see if Alduin would just explode from his attempt. He did not explode, but the coin bounced a couple times.
You cannot get colored magic from Herbavores. Their bodies are utilizing a magical Color. Bits of their bodies are linked to and utilizing a magical Color. These bits are the things that hunters harvest (besides teeth, armor, claws). As such, hunters and their crafters can build 'enchanted' gear, by encorperating the bits with those effects. It's why, in MH, your gear needs to be 'upgraded'- more and more of the weapon ends up with magical bits linked and activated, as more magical bits are utilized.
Do not cringe- but the magic was within all along.
Specifically, the type of species decides what magic type the monster can channel naturally... But the Thu'um can do all sorts of things.
Through use of the Thu'um are powers some in MH could consider... Unnatural. In this case, it's more likely that the MC will reach towards utilizing the Thu'um before trying to become a discount planeswaker.
Glad you are liking it!
You know what you did Alduin. When your god tells you to end the world, you're supposed to end the world, not conquer it!
e:
I'm going to have nightmares about fidget spinner pickles now.
Because what pickles need is a fucking death blossom attack.
This is just... Perfect. Seriously- Pickle Deathbloosom Attack!
It sounds like an excessively-anime thing.
- Location
- PA
I mainly like more Wing thruster bc it's cool, having smaller ones would more be like Holes where u can blast tiny fire out of for directional change like those variable fighters.
Its like your super flexible so why not add more pair of Wings like You have Main Pair, 2ndary Pair & the 3rd=Tail Pair + You can have Opening over your body for smaller adjustment.
- The Main pair= main thruster you fly with
- The 2nd pair can be your "floater" thruster for when you change your Main wing into Bombing mode
--> or your 2nd pair can be use to bomb & main to fly
- the 3rd pair is for movement + Sudden acceleration like a Right dash or a left dash or even a barrel roll
- for the smaller opening you can be like Fighter where you got Scale that can flip open where u can do short bust of dragon enegery to make extra adjustment in flight path
It would also be great if you have greater control over your thruster so you can like "narrow down" the fire spread[but that would require u to change your thruster]
mhm since flesh shaping is dangerous & can explode why not create Symbiotic Armor add-ons [its like hunter crafting armor]
- something like a mix between Vaal Hazak & Zinogre dragon bug hybrid that would latch to your outside[or even live inside of you] they would like let u "Enchant" your body parts with Dragon ele or something
Since your body part= magic, how do you increase the density then? growing up naturally? eat other monster?
Also need to add Enegery storage since MH monster get tired out so quick in a draw out fight[cant even rage all day]
In MH frontier? forgot the name, there was this Monster Mi Ru thats a wyvern rex rip off that can "control it's body" " allowing it change it's own body shape by redistributing it or something Mi Ru
Make mc a Zenith Valstrax or something, maybe variant, or EVEN Deviant!
- Zenith Species (Japanese 辿異種 Teishu) are strong monster individuals that have gone through their own independent changes over the years, compared to other individuals of the same species. Zenith Species have unusually developed parts that they use to their advantage in nature. These parts can be a monster's horn, wings, claws, beak, etc.
- variant (Japanese: 特殊個体) is a rare individual or anomalous group of a given species of monster. They are often almost identical to a common individual but possess one or more certain unique traits that set them apart. Variants are more powerful than a normal member of their species and are more in tune with their inherent abilities.
- Deviants (Japanese 二つ名持ちモンスター) are special monster individuals that have survived harsh conditions and have changed to overcome said extremes they've faced.[1] They are known to be similar to normal monster individuals, though different and special in some ways. Deviants are known to have a unique appearance, fighting style, and adaptions in battle. Deviants are also known to sometimes be larger than normal individuals. From these special individuals being far more dangerous and different,
since you can't glide base off physic, why not learn from Kirin & be able to step on air
& since you can use White[wats this], Red[Fire? energy?], Blue[Water? Ice?], Dark [I rember this is decay or something]
--> so since you can use Color magic= cast spells & mimic stuff from other elder dragon right
--> use dark magic to control the thingy on Vaal Hazak= more power
--> Red & Blue can you do The Fourth Wave
--> Red & Dark can make something like Storm Flame
--> Blue & dark= make zombie or something?[im thinking of Wow Ice+ undead]
- so wats white magic?
Its like your super flexible so why not add more pair of Wings like You have Main Pair, 2ndary Pair & the 3rd=Tail Pair + You can have Opening over your body for smaller adjustment.
- The Main pair= main thruster you fly with
- The 2nd pair can be your "floater" thruster for when you change your Main wing into Bombing mode
--> or your 2nd pair can be use to bomb & main to fly
- the 3rd pair is for movement + Sudden acceleration like a Right dash or a left dash or even a barrel roll
- for the smaller opening you can be like Fighter where you got Scale that can flip open where u can do short bust of dragon enegery to make extra adjustment in flight path
It would also be great if you have greater control over your thruster so you can like "narrow down" the fire spread[but that would require u to change your thruster]
mhm since flesh shaping is dangerous & can explode why not create Symbiotic Armor add-ons [its like hunter crafting armor]
- something like a mix between Vaal Hazak & Zinogre dragon bug hybrid that would latch to your outside[or even live inside of you] they would like let u "Enchant" your body parts with Dragon ele or something
Since your body part= magic, how do you increase the density then? growing up naturally? eat other monster?
Also need to add Enegery storage since MH monster get tired out so quick in a draw out fight[cant even rage all day]
In MH frontier? forgot the name, there was this Monster Mi Ru thats a wyvern rex rip off that can "control it's body" " allowing it change it's own body shape by redistributing it or something Mi Ru
Make mc a Zenith Valstrax or something, maybe variant, or EVEN Deviant!
- Zenith Species (Japanese 辿異種 Teishu) are strong monster individuals that have gone through their own independent changes over the years, compared to other individuals of the same species. Zenith Species have unusually developed parts that they use to their advantage in nature. These parts can be a monster's horn, wings, claws, beak, etc.
- variant (Japanese: 特殊個体) is a rare individual or anomalous group of a given species of monster. They are often almost identical to a common individual but possess one or more certain unique traits that set them apart. Variants are more powerful than a normal member of their species and are more in tune with their inherent abilities.
- Deviants (Japanese 二つ名持ちモンスター) are special monster individuals that have survived harsh conditions and have changed to overcome said extremes they've faced.[1] They are known to be similar to normal monster individuals, though different and special in some ways. Deviants are known to have a unique appearance, fighting style, and adaptions in battle. Deviants are also known to sometimes be larger than normal individuals. From these special individuals being far more dangerous and different,
since you can't glide base off physic, why not learn from Kirin & be able to step on air
& since you can use White[wats this], Red[Fire? energy?], Blue[Water? Ice?], Dark [I rember this is decay or something]
--> so since you can use Color magic= cast spells & mimic stuff from other elder dragon right
--> use dark magic to control the thingy on Vaal Hazak= more power
--> Red & Blue can you do The Fourth Wave
--> Red & Dark can make something like Storm Flame
--> Blue & dark= make zombie or something?[im thinking of Wow Ice+ undead]
- so wats white magic?
- Location
- Australia
(My understanding of the mtg colours)
White - Order/Purity/Control
Red - Impulse/Destruction/Chaos
Blue - Intelligence/Omniscience/Technology
Black - Self-centred/Death/Immorality
Green - Instinct/Nature/Interdependent
Mr. Cloak
Orchestrator of Paradoxical Apocalypse
- Pronouns
- I
Maybe changing the MC's own body would be feasable- but that begs the question, is he smart enough to understand and specify how all the changes would go down? Because, while the Thu'um can allow for a species-change, and partial alteration, it's limited to the mental image of the user.
Alduin got AMAZING results because a) he was asking to be a dragon GOD, not for specific, unique physical changes- just that he would be able to fly once the changes had been made, and b) because I literally gave him a 50% chance of it killing him in a literal squall of cancerous gore... Which could have been VERY bad.
Or he could have become a completely different form of flying 'dragon'.
Living armor or tools is a logical consequence of that train of thought, and it will probably happen... In a little while. There is SCIENCE!!!! that must be done before flesh-sculpting may be done well and properly!
Increasing magical density or power, as he is now, will happen as he grows into his adult form. The monsters in MH never really stop growing- they just slow down as they get bigger. Eating other monsters wouldn't work- the link is metaphysical, and linked to physical structures within the body as well as the will.
RAGE ALL DAY EVERY DAY! I picked the Valstrax because they have a LOT of endurance- in flying, and moving. They need it, as the things are long-range high-speed hunters, and moving at the speed of sound or faster is not simple for any organism unless you are a blue hedgehog.
The Mi Ru has an interesting physiology, and the way I would explain it is like... A Jack of All Trades, master of none. Its 'reactor' is tuned to colorless mana, and the crystaline growths and body structure allow it to focus the colorless mana into a 'filter' shape that provides them with the powers described. Things in their bodies need to LITERALLY move around to re-tune the monster to a specific elemental signature.
Frankly, the Mi Ru looks like a Tigrex that ate a Behemoth while it was forming, and SURVIVED the horrible experience, only to reproduce into more semi-magical monstrosities.
Technically, MC!Dragon and Sister!Dragon are Varient species already, as is their Mother!Dragon... They have a unique trait that no other Valstrax has- besides being smart enough to grasp language.
On the subject of Magic- without a proper universal magical framework (IE, unlike the magic of other fantasy worlds), being able to channel land magic is possibly THE hardest magic variation in the multiverse.
It's difficult to the point where ONLY planeswalkers, with their sparks, can actively utilize it... And that's because they gain links to entire universes, and their spark 'burns' a little into the framework of that universe, allowing them to draw off the Land Mana there... AND only because the act of establishing a Link to said Land to draw power off its ontological friction against the void of the howling/nonexistence is a deep and conceptual attachment.
The monster of MH are linked into their lands because their universe allows for a symbol-based power draw effect, but for all of their history, the civilizations have needed to rely on monsters for the parts because the structures needed are insanely fractally complex.
I'm talking error margins on the level of a couple atoms. The equivalent of ritual circles embossed in chains of atoms small enough to be written by cellular activity.... With the fractal structues being woven through hundreds of cells at once.
AND THEN the creatures can't usually channel most of the potential in the land's power! Each structure is slightly different, linking to a random part of the planet, and taking only a microsopic amount of its ontological output- all of which is used as part of the fractal structure, which amplifies and feeds most of the power BACK to the requisite land, only using a tiny output of the MagicIn<MagicOut inequality to power whatever effect the creature is using it for.
Only one species on the MH planet has access to a Planeswalker spark consitantly, and they will come up later in the story.
The Thu'um provides a, not shortcut exactly, but a type of command console, to allow the user to speak directly to the magic in a way it understands. The words are not important- but the shape that the 'soul' 'pushes' on the universe is. Dragons have an ontological advantage in that reguard- with so many myths about their being wise, old, and powerful, they end up being able to more easily access, again, for lack of a better term, the Metamagic of all underpinning realities, through their Self and their own ontological interactions.
What the MC can do a bit of so far, on a magical front:
- Utilize the colors he has access to, in order to channel a few elemental effects- all of which are based off his body's natural functions.
- Use the Thu'um
and that's it.
And finally- the colors.... Cuber below is pretty good- but there are nuances.
Nice work! Nuances will be described a bit in the story, but these images cover it well.
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- Location
- PA
Mhm so we gotta SCIENCE! it up, be like annihilation maker 1st have a vague idea then test it on something else, Research the result then make adjustment, & slowly learn the things need to make the finish product
- acculy you can just be like variable fighter make the add on wind thruster & stuff a attachment
--> imagine u have a rocket pod attachment on your back & pew pew pew
---> it be great if u learn how to make Familars then u can make them. Sv-262Hs Draken III have "Lil Draken" which are tiny ver that for support
-----> you can make yours like a Arrow head with Thruster & u can have them Ram atk at enemies
MC is alrdy a variant???? do they have better wings or something?<_<
- LeL Valorgod Valstrax
So MC will get stronger as he grows
- currently MC's body have hotkeys[instinct] to use Color magic a certain way[thruster]
- manipulating this will be hard bc it's not natural[ like u can press a key to use a skill but u dont know how it works]
- so mc can start learning by "feeling" the hotkeys [atm mc absorb air then fused Color to make --> dragon fire] --> maybe mc can start to experiment with the RATIO of Color to see wat else MC can Exhaust out of his wings
----> Like White--> Order + structure which builds the framework for this "Reaction", Blue is the "Idea" for this reaction, Red & Dark= fuel????.
----> he can change the ratio and maybe blast out more Dark> Red & do some Decay debuff or something
-----> as he experiment & learn it more and more he will be like casting Color magic through his thruster?
The pic is a bit confusing[is yellow= white?] & 2nd pic is a bit small, for the 3rd pic it's a bit confusing
But dark= exploitation = Consume
mhm yea the 3rd pic is a bit confusing
- so Green+ white= community OR Green & White are Community?
So dragon words is like Rune magic where there are only a few words you use to make stuff happen
mhm Since MC= Valstrax = "Elder Dragon" --> & since MC plays MH he could be like "Shape" "Elder dragon"
- maybe add this Shantien in the future
---> It has the ability to levitate by collecting, charging and releasing air particles from the jade crystal-like organs along its body, most notably on the "wings" causing them to visibly swell when Shantien takes to the air.
Since magic have a "myth" mod then "Elder Dragon" should add extra mod in casting right, then if you become a "Veteran" Elder dragon then u will add even more Mod, or do your "reputation" give u mod too?
it be interesting if u can find Gaia Dragons Gaia Dragon (MHEX2)
Mr. Cloak
Orchestrator of Paradoxical Apocalypse
- Pronouns
- I
Tiny drone-pets would be fun... But I'd need to get a decent template to start with first. I shall consider it.
The Blue Valstrax is a nice one- but no, not like that. He, his sister, and mother, all have THUMBS. Specifically, they have thumbs on their hands, which normal Valstrax only have a little dewclaw. It's not exactly something that would be super-obvious yet, but it's there.
The MC, and all monsters, get stronger as they get older and bigger. The more they eat, the faster they grow (they can only grow so fast, but most of the monsters you see in the game that aren't extra-large varients are, to some degree, malnourished). As they grow larger, more and more of the fractal patterns that their bodies use to channel the various magical colors are grown, they gain more capacity and control over their powers... But it's fairly limited for now.
There are... Ways... For monsters to change their power set, but most of the time, it's enviromentally set. Like how Zinogre has a lightning affinity? Well, that's not an inbuilt ability to use lightning, but rather, a side-effect of how it uses GREEN and BLUE to establish it's colony of thunderbugs. Stygian Zinogre uses the same elements, with a *touch* of RED, in order to connect to the dracophage bug colony.
Of the known Zinogre varients, only one of them doesn't have a bug colony, and the FFBE Zinogre can be explained by a strong RED affinity rather than GREEN (projected power, no bug link).
Rajang is one of the BEST examples of a monster that can, and does, change it's power set. Alatreon can swap between different elemental effects, but it's an internal alteration that is grown in place. Rajang has the ability to take the powers of another monster, and make them its own- of its own volition no less. Some more effectively than others. Admittedly, it is the only monster that has been seen consuming the thaumodynamic part of another monster and gaining something from it, but I would not be surprised if more varients (especially weird ones) were the result of consuming a thaumoactive component from another monster or other lifeform, and integrating it.
For magic thruster- think less 'casting' and more 'exhaust alteration'.
I need to find a better explanation of the MTG magic system. Maybe a better diagram?
For dragon magic- no. It is not like rune magic. EVERY word of the Thu'um can cause an effect- the ones you use in skyrim are just the easiest ones to understand. Each word, when properly pronounced, has a soul-impression "pushed" into the vocalization (it's why a Tongue can meditate on a word to make it more powerful- it's intensifying the 'depth' of the impression that, when released, goes out into the world) that pushes a conceptual effect into reality.
If the MTG is like painting on a canvas with five colors to get the effects you want, the Thu'um is like using sign language to explain to a nearly-blind gamer which console command to use (some commands are simple, others are not).
Okay, that analogy is bad, but I think it gets the point across.
The... Embossing-effect that the Thu'um can do is trickier than it seems as well. For one, it can be self-sustaining, but the caster needs to understand that concept well enough to apply it. Moreover, ANY concept applied to an object needs to be cast in conjunction with the concepts of perminancy as well as the linkages that the concept in question must have in order to connect properly to the other concepts.
So... That's a headache and a half. Frankly, the whole 'sign your name with the Thu'um' is a bit of a party trick, and is rather useless, BUT carving the Thu'um into something, while pulsing the soul-impression into the object in the concept and linkages needed in order IS DOABLE FOR ANYONE.... They just need to get the whole soul-impression effect working first.
Better yet, it can be done with any language, so long as the pulse is made when the word and concept are synced- otherwise, you can say 'Fire' and cause someone to implode. Or turn into string cheese.
Gaia dragons are a... Middle life stage for a couple of monsters we all know and love/hate. You will see...
Krazyfan1
Worrying for the future.
- Location
- Australia
Is there a limit to how many templates you can have?
Cause having a tiny disposable spy minion that can fly around and report info back to you/sabotage things could be neat...
and in some cases quantity has a quality of its own...
Mr. Cloak
Orchestrator of Paradoxical Apocalypse
- Pronouns
- I
Not a limit on the number of templates (dragon brains are bigger than an entire human body when full grown), but on usefulness.
I could see simple attack drones based on, say, dragonflies or those wasp things in MHW. But recon drones? That needs not just flight, but data storage and relay methods, not to mention an interface.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Aren't Kinsects basically drone pets? AFAIK there's no particular reason why a monster couldn't have a Kinsect or two or three or four or...
e: As for the Thu'um, the important thing to remember about Tonal Magic (of which the Thu'um is a subset) is that Tonal Magic operates on a much deeper level than normal magic.
In order to properly explain I'll need to briefly cover Elder Scrolls metaphysics; in TES the most basic underlying structure of reality is musical tones (aka syllables or notes), three tones together form a chord, multiple chords (usually three, but not always) form a harmony and all the harmonies together form The Song (of reality).
This is actually an inversion of normal physics; in meatspace everything can be represented as a waveform, for some things like atoms the waveform is fairly obvious, for other things like a person the waveform is so large that it is basically impossible to measure, but it is still there. Sound can also be represented as a waveform, and this is where the TES universe inverts things. Atoms (and subatomic particles, and soforth) vibrate, sounds are vibrations travelling through a medium, combine this with the atom's waveform and the atom can therefore be said to have a sound, or tone.
In reality, the atom creates the sound, in TES, the sound creates the atom.
(You may have just realized how Tonal Magic works.)
So in TES, 'behind' all of reality is The Song, the series of tones and chords and harmonies that together describe the entirety of existence. And because these sounds are the ultimate 'origin' of reality, alterations to the sounds are reflected in alterations to reality.
Normal magic works by using Magicka to 'overlay' a new set of sounds on top of The Song, 'drowning out' the sounds beneath with the sounds of the magic and thus causing the desired effect to come into existence. (Though note that very few mages are actually aware that this is what they are doing, to use a computer programming analogy the sound stuff is binary code and like most programmers most mages do not work directly with the base code, they use higher level languages, like Python. More powerful and knowledgeable mages often use lower level languages, like C to continue the analogy, which allows them to get more efficient with their Magicka usage but is also more difficult and more likely to go horribly wrong if they forget to account for an important variable.)
However, because these 'false sounds' are imposed over the top of the true sound of The Song, The Song constantly 'erodes' away at them with its own sounds, which is why magical effects fade over time unless regularly supplied with Magicka to reinforce the effects.
Tonal Magic on the other hand does not impose new sounds on top of The Song, Tonal Magic alters The Song directly. When a Dragon Speaks the word for Fire, they are literally inserting the sound of fire into The Song, reality itself then reacts to this change in The Song and now there is fire.
This is why Tonal Magic is so stupidly powerful; it is literally rewriting reality itself to your whims.
(Also, three tones form a chord, three words form a Shout, this is not a coincidence. The words in a Thu'um are each a single tone of The Song, and three words together forms a chord, this is why Shouts are always formed from three words, and why Dragons use three word names. Yes, Dragon names are chords in The Song, and that is why Shouting them calls the Dragon in question to you.)
The best example of this is found with the only known non-Dragon masters of Tonal Magic; the Dwemer. The Dwemer figured out Tonal Magic and the true nature of Mundus in a prior Kalpa (they are actually refugees from a previous Kalpa who survived the end of their reality by escaping sideways into the future\past the same way that Dragon souls do) and took it further than anyone, even the Dragons, ever had. I won't bother getting into the details for why, because they're not relevant here and the Dwemer's overall plan regarding Tonal Magic was batshit insane, but the Dwemer did leave behind the most obvious example of the power of Tonal Magic; Dwemer Metal.
Dwemer Metal does not have an ore because it was not mined and smelted, the Dwemer simply added the sound of Dwemer Metal to The Song with Tonal Magic and poof, Dwemer Metal. Yes, they literally sung Dwemer Metal into existence from nothing. They also removed the sounds of mortality, death and entropy from the sound of Dwemer Metal, which is why it does not rust, corrode or age. And because these things were done with Tonal Magic, aka by altering the very fundamental notes of The Song itself, they are permanent, Dwemer Metal will continue to exist and continue to not age until Alduin finally does his fucking job and hits the reset button on Mundus, scrambling The Song into a new pattern and starting a new Kalpa.
And, of course, the Dwemer also provide an excellent example of the dangers of Tonal Magic; the creation of Numidium was an act of Tonal Magic, and indeed Numidium itself is an 'engine' of Tonal Magic. When Kagrenac struck the Heart of Lorkhan with his tools that too was an act of Tonal Magic, (note; three tones to a chord, three tools of Tonal Magic to fuck with the heart of a god, the number 3 recurs over and over with Tonal Magic, you'll even find in the TES games that Dwemer ruins are often built around the number 3, such as having 3 Tonal Magic locks and so on.) and because Kagrenac was in a hurry at the time (due to Dagoth Ur running towards him intent on ruining his shit) he fucked something up and accidentally unmade the entire Dwemer species, permanently and irreversibly.
Oops!
So yeah. Tonal Magic is incredibly powerful, but also incredibly dangerous. Dragons can (mostly) safely fuck with Tonal Magic because the nature of their souls as fragments of Akatosh's soul gives them a natural insight into the workings of reality, and thus an instinctive understanding of Tonal Magic. This means both that Dragons can intuitively use Tonal Magic in the form of the Thu'um, and also that they are naturally aware of when they are Doing It Wrong and how to avoid that. In a sense, they can 'hear' The Song and 'tune' their Shouts in response to that, whereas the Dwemer had to figure out how to 'tune' things by doing a whole fuckload of esoteric math because they lacked that instinctive ability.
In short; do not fuck with Tonal Magic unless you know exactly what you are doing, if you are a Dragon then the nature of your soul will assist with this, but there is still plenty of room for things to go very wrong, which is why most Dragons mostly stick to fairly simple and well-tested Shouts that they know cannot accidentally turn themselves inside-out or something.
(Incidentally, creating Dragonrend could have gone hilariously wrong, given the words used to make it. Only the ancient Nords overwhelming hatred of Dragons ensured that it didn't end up doing something rather unfortunate, like killing everything in earshot.)
e: As for the Thu'um, the important thing to remember about Tonal Magic (of which the Thu'um is a subset) is that Tonal Magic operates on a much deeper level than normal magic.
In order to properly explain I'll need to briefly cover Elder Scrolls metaphysics; in TES the most basic underlying structure of reality is musical tones (aka syllables or notes), three tones together form a chord, multiple chords (usually three, but not always) form a harmony and all the harmonies together form The Song (of reality).
This is actually an inversion of normal physics; in meatspace everything can be represented as a waveform, for some things like atoms the waveform is fairly obvious, for other things like a person the waveform is so large that it is basically impossible to measure, but it is still there. Sound can also be represented as a waveform, and this is where the TES universe inverts things. Atoms (and subatomic particles, and soforth) vibrate, sounds are vibrations travelling through a medium, combine this with the atom's waveform and the atom can therefore be said to have a sound, or tone.
In reality, the atom creates the sound, in TES, the sound creates the atom.
(You may have just realized how Tonal Magic works.)
So in TES, 'behind' all of reality is The Song, the series of tones and chords and harmonies that together describe the entirety of existence. And because these sounds are the ultimate 'origin' of reality, alterations to the sounds are reflected in alterations to reality.
Normal magic works by using Magicka to 'overlay' a new set of sounds on top of The Song, 'drowning out' the sounds beneath with the sounds of the magic and thus causing the desired effect to come into existence. (Though note that very few mages are actually aware that this is what they are doing, to use a computer programming analogy the sound stuff is binary code and like most programmers most mages do not work directly with the base code, they use higher level languages, like Python. More powerful and knowledgeable mages often use lower level languages, like C to continue the analogy, which allows them to get more efficient with their Magicka usage but is also more difficult and more likely to go horribly wrong if they forget to account for an important variable.)
However, because these 'false sounds' are imposed over the top of the true sound of The Song, The Song constantly 'erodes' away at them with its own sounds, which is why magical effects fade over time unless regularly supplied with Magicka to reinforce the effects.
Tonal Magic on the other hand does not impose new sounds on top of The Song, Tonal Magic alters The Song directly. When a Dragon Speaks the word for Fire, they are literally inserting the sound of fire into The Song, reality itself then reacts to this change in The Song and now there is fire.
This is why Tonal Magic is so stupidly powerful; it is literally rewriting reality itself to your whims.
(Also, three tones form a chord, three words form a Shout, this is not a coincidence. The words in a Thu'um are each a single tone of The Song, and three words together forms a chord, this is why Shouts are always formed from three words, and why Dragons use three word names. Yes, Dragon names are chords in The Song, and that is why Shouting them calls the Dragon in question to you.)
The best example of this is found with the only known non-Dragon masters of Tonal Magic; the Dwemer. The Dwemer figured out Tonal Magic and the true nature of Mundus in a prior Kalpa (they are actually refugees from a previous Kalpa who survived the end of their reality by escaping sideways into the future\past the same way that Dragon souls do) and took it further than anyone, even the Dragons, ever had. I won't bother getting into the details for why, because they're not relevant here and the Dwemer's overall plan regarding Tonal Magic was batshit insane, but the Dwemer did leave behind the most obvious example of the power of Tonal Magic; Dwemer Metal.
Dwemer Metal does not have an ore because it was not mined and smelted, the Dwemer simply added the sound of Dwemer Metal to The Song with Tonal Magic and poof, Dwemer Metal. Yes, they literally sung Dwemer Metal into existence from nothing. They also removed the sounds of mortality, death and entropy from the sound of Dwemer Metal, which is why it does not rust, corrode or age. And because these things were done with Tonal Magic, aka by altering the very fundamental notes of The Song itself, they are permanent, Dwemer Metal will continue to exist and continue to not age until Alduin finally does his fucking job and hits the reset button on Mundus, scrambling The Song into a new pattern and starting a new Kalpa.
And, of course, the Dwemer also provide an excellent example of the dangers of Tonal Magic; the creation of Numidium was an act of Tonal Magic, and indeed Numidium itself is an 'engine' of Tonal Magic. When Kagrenac struck the Heart of Lorkhan with his tools that too was an act of Tonal Magic, (note; three tones to a chord, three tools of Tonal Magic to fuck with the heart of a god, the number 3 recurs over and over with Tonal Magic, you'll even find in the TES games that Dwemer ruins are often built around the number 3, such as having 3 Tonal Magic locks and so on.) and because Kagrenac was in a hurry at the time (due to Dagoth Ur running towards him intent on ruining his shit) he fucked something up and accidentally unmade the entire Dwemer species, permanently and irreversibly.
Oops!
So yeah. Tonal Magic is incredibly powerful, but also incredibly dangerous. Dragons can (mostly) safely fuck with Tonal Magic because the nature of their souls as fragments of Akatosh's soul gives them a natural insight into the workings of reality, and thus an instinctive understanding of Tonal Magic. This means both that Dragons can intuitively use Tonal Magic in the form of the Thu'um, and also that they are naturally aware of when they are Doing It Wrong and how to avoid that. In a sense, they can 'hear' The Song and 'tune' their Shouts in response to that, whereas the Dwemer had to figure out how to 'tune' things by doing a whole fuckload of esoteric math because they lacked that instinctive ability.
In short; do not fuck with Tonal Magic unless you know exactly what you are doing, if you are a Dragon then the nature of your soul will assist with this, but there is still plenty of room for things to go very wrong, which is why most Dragons mostly stick to fairly simple and well-tested Shouts that they know cannot accidentally turn themselves inside-out or something.
(Incidentally, creating Dragonrend could have gone hilariously wrong, given the words used to make it. Only the ancient Nords overwhelming hatred of Dragons ensured that it didn't end up doing something rather unfortunate, like killing everything in earshot.)
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- Location
- PA
i never though of Kinsects lel
I dont use insect glave alot
since mc have tumbs should start using that to craft & u got "fire" from your thruster alrdy and u have Mats[monster carcass] go hammer some scales uwu
Gaia being a mid stage creature =~= sounds really weird
I forgot if this was fandom
there was this Gore Magala that was sentient & won't shed into a Shagaru[even thou it grown up] and it stays in this misty ruins or something forgot where i read this
I dont use insect glave alot
since mc have tumbs should start using that to craft & u got "fire" from your thruster alrdy and u have Mats[monster carcass] go hammer some scales uwu
Gaia being a mid stage creature =~= sounds really weird
I forgot if this was fandom
there was this Gore Magala that was sentient & won't shed into a Shagaru[even thou it grown up] and it stays in this misty ruins or something forgot where i read this
Mr. Cloak
Orchestrator of Paradoxical Apocalypse
- Pronouns
- I
Aren't Kinsects basically drone pets? AFAIK there's no particular reason why a monster couldn't have a Kinsect or two or three or four or...
In short; do not fuck with Tonal Magic unless you know exactly what you are doing, if you are a Dragon then the nature of your soul will assist with this, but there is still plenty of room for things to go very wrong, which is why most Dragons mostly stick to fairly simple and well-tested Shouts that they know cannot accidentally turn themselves inside-out or something.As for the Thu'um, the important thing to remember about Tonal Magic (of which the Thu'um is a subset) is that Tonal Magic operates on a much deeper level than normal magic.
In order to properly explain I'll need to briefly cover Elder Scrolls metaphysics; in TES the most basic underlying structure of reality is musical tones (aka syllables or notes), three tones together form a chord, multiple chords (usually three, but not always) form a harmony and all the harmonies together form The Song (of reality).
This is actually an inversion of normal physics; in meatspace everything can be represented as a waveform, for some things like atoms the waveform is fairly obvious, for other things like a person the waveform is so large that it is basically impossible to measure, but it is still there. Sound can also be represented as a waveform, and this is where the TES universe inverts things. Atoms (and subatomic particles, and soforth) vibrate, sounds are vibrations travelling through a medium, combine this with the atom's waveform and the atom can therefore be said to have a sound, or tone.
In reality, the atom creates the sound, in TES, the sound creates the atom.
(You may have just realized how Tonal Magic works.)
So in TES, 'behind' all of reality is The Song, the series of tones and chords and harmonies that together describe the entirety of existence. And because these sounds are the ultimate 'origin' of reality, alterations to the sounds are reflected in alterations to reality.
Normal magic works by using Magicka to 'overlay' a new set of sounds on top of The Song, 'drowning out' the sounds beneath with the sounds of the magic and thus causing the desired effect to come into existence. (Though note that very few mages are actually aware that this is what they are doing, to use a computer programming analogy the sound stuff is binary code and like most programmers most mages do not work directly with the base code, they use higher level languages, like Python. More powerful and knowledgeable mages often use lower level languages, like C to continue the analogy, which allows them to get more efficient with their Magicka usage but is also more difficult and more likely to go horribly wrong if they forget to account for an important variable.)
However, because these 'false sounds' are imposed over the top of the true sound of The Song, The Song constantly 'erodes' away at them with its own sounds, which is why magical effects fade over time unless regularly supplied with Magicka to reinforce the effects.
Tonal Magic on the other hand does not impose new sounds on top of The Song, Tonal Magic alters The Song directly. When a Dragon Speaks the word for Fire, they are literally inserting the sound of fire into The Song, reality itself then reacts to this change in The Song and now there is fire.
This is why Tonal Magic is so stupidly powerful; it is literally rewriting reality itself to your whims.
(Also, three tones form a chord, three words form a Shout, this is not a coincidence. The words in a Thu'um are each a single tone of The Song, and three words together forms a chord, this is why Shouts are always formed from three words, and why Dragons use three word names. Yes, Dragon names are chords in The Song, and that is why Shouting them calls the Dragon in question to you.)
The best example of this is found with the only known non-Dragon masters of Tonal Magic; the Dwemer. The Dwemer figured out Tonal Magic and the true nature of Mundus in a prior Kalpa (they are actually refugees from a previous Kalpa who survived the end of their reality by escaping sideways into the future\past the same way that Dragon souls do) and took it further than anyone, even the Dragons, ever had. I won't bother getting into the details for why, because they're not relevant here and the Dwemer's overall plan regarding Tonal Magic was batshit insane, but the Dwemer did leave behind the most obvious example of the power of Tonal Magic; Dwemer Metal.
Dwemer Metal does not have an ore because it was not mined and smelted, the Dwemer simply added the sound of Dwemer Metal to The Song with Tonal Magic and poof, Dwemer Metal. Yes, they literally sung Dwemer Metal into existence from nothing. They also removed the sounds of mortality, death and entropy from the sound of Dwemer Metal, which is why it does not rust, corrode or age. And because these things were done with Tonal Magic, aka by altering the very fundamental notes of The Song itself, they are permanent, Dwemer Metal will continue to exist and continue to not age until Alduin finally does his fucking job and hits the reset button on Mundus, scrambling The Song into a new pattern and starting a new Kalpa.
And, of course, the Dwemer also provide an excellent example of the dangers of Tonal Magic; the creation of Numidium was an act of Tonal Magic, and indeed Numidium itself is an 'engine' of Tonal Magic. When Kagrenac struck the Heart of Lorkhan with his tools that too was an act of Tonal Magic, (note; three tones to a chord, three tools of Tonal Magic to fuck with the heart of a god, the number 3 recurs over and over with Tonal Magic, you'll even find in the TES games that Dwemer ruins are often built around the number 3, such as having 3 Tonal Magic locks and so on.) and because Kagrenac was in a hurry at the time (due to Dagoth Ur running towards him intent on ruining his shit) he fucked something up and accidentally unmade the entire Dwemer species, permanently and irreversibly.
Oops!
So yeah. Tonal Magic is incredibly powerful, but also incredibly dangerous. Dragons can (mostly) safely fuck with Tonal Magic because the nature of their souls as fragments of Akatosh's soul gives them a natural insight into the workings of reality, and thus an instinctive understanding of Tonal Magic. This means both that Dragons can intuitively use Tonal Magic in the form of the Thu'um, and also that they are naturally aware of when they are Doing It Wrong and how to avoid that. In a sense, they can 'hear' The Song and 'tune' their Shouts in response to that, whereas the Dwemer had to figure out how to 'tune' things by doing a whole fuckload of esoteric math because they lacked that instinctive ability.
(Incidentally, creating Dragonrend could have gone hilariously wrong, given the words used to make it. Only the ancient Nords overwhelming hatred of Dragons ensured that it didn't end up doing something rather unfortunate, like killing everything in earshot.)
Kinsects are more like.... Doglike insects? Insects that are trained and have pack-instincts that allow for emotional bonding.
This description of tonal magic is EXACTLY as I understand it- and it ties into the MTG magical systems, as all tonal magic is made with WHITE, BLACK, and BLUE inherantly through the applciation of the soul-impact on reality.
The mind creates the wanted effect (WHITE)-> the soul hits reality with the message (BLUE)-> reality resonates and changes (BLACK).
Incidentally, the Tonal magic of the Thu'um is a lot more stable outside of a 'sung' universe, and MH is not a 'sung' universe- so you're less likely to have tonal magic have exponential knock-on effects, but shouts like DragonRend (which should be called MortalEnforcement or LifeLimit) can still kill everything within their blast radius if the concepts are lined up correctly.
Frankly, Tonal magic is probably the same type of magic that's utilized in the Anthem universe, but that's another discussion.
People tend to forget the Kinsects until they use the insect glaive.
How? He's primarily a quadripedal organism, and while he has thumbs, he does NOT have the shoulder-structure or the proper joint to be able to swing a hammer that would be much heavier than one of his own limbs.
Just because you have thumbs doesn't mean you have the limb structure to be able to use it for much- humans have a very well-developed hand, elbow, shoulder, and core musculature that allows us a LOT of leverage to throw things, and swing things.
The Valstrax body plan is more like that of a wolf or large cat, mixed with a greater orthagonal torso movement.
Not to mention how awkward it would be to stand on two legs only in order to swing a weapon like a human would. Frankly, because of draconic bodies tend to be both huge and strong, as well as being able to project fire, I would expect them to create blowpipes, and work on developing armor/armor piercing shots. Possibly sabot-based armor piercers, if used between dragons, or grapshot/scattershot/fletchette equivilants for anything else.
Having a thumb just means tool use is easier- not that the tools will be developed the same way as humans do.
Gaia as a middle stage isn't that weird- it's not a very large monster, but it shows a natural affinity to land magic with the different types it can be found in, AND is has a very strange similarity to a pair of monsters that are seen in MHW... Both of them are seen at the same time even, during a siege mission!
That fanfic sounds fascinating- link?
Gore Magala was my first choice for the MC's body, but then I saw the Valstrax. It actually has usable arms that can use weapons (they are also wings)- so that's useful, but the adult form (Shagaru Magala) is also able to do this... But I already pointed out that the Valstrax stay as far away from the frenzy-carriers as possible.
Imagine a swarm of Shagaru Magala, and how dangerous the frenzy virus cloud would be. Now imagine you are a dragon the size of a fighter jet, and you CAN'T hold your breath. Valstrax avoid the Magala's like the plague.
I knew that if I had to be myself, I would choose to be a dragon- and if I could choose between a dragon and a rocket-powered dragon, I'd choose the rocket-powered one.
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Krazyfan1
Worrying for the future.
- Location
- Australia
Hmm...
What about holding onto a sword?
He could fly full speed past a foe while holding it, and the foe gets cut in half?
- Location
- PA
Magala's are solotary creatures they dont live in swarms, but yea a single one spread virus over large ranges
but hey if you manage to conquer the virus you become APEX Valstrax
and for hammering just use your fist, but u can just super heat it with your wings & bend it with your arms [you suppose to be fire res right?]
the gore magala one isnt a fanfic I think
I was intrested in MH lore back then and found it on a fandom link somewhere
like how theory humans are some kind of Bio weapons
and elder dragons was once a advance civilization
Mr. Cloak
Orchestrator of Paradoxical Apocalypse
- Pronouns
- I
That could work- but a scythe or loop of cheesewire with a handle would be better for that then.
Solitary creatures can swarm during mating season... And that should scare you a LOT. Swarm Magala.
And thats like saying you can gain immunity to the common cole to become apex human- biology doesn't work like that. It doesn't help that the virus is magical, and the Magala are either the primary controllers or ideal hosts for it.
Valstrax aren't fire resistant- they are actually vulnerable to all eleements EXCEPT dragon, which they are immune to. They are heat-resistant though, and their wings internal chambers are able to superheat to provide thrust.
Link to that?
This is not my prototype fic, sorry.
- Location
- PA
I found it, it's fanon Phantom Gore Magala Ecology
but on ancient: The surprisingly dark history of Monster Hunter lore
also found this
intresting thing
Skyblade Drgnsphire
A gem to reforge the world: from blood, the sea; flesh, the land; bone, the wood.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
There's a lot of fan debate over the details of the MH world's history, about the only thing that can be said about it with absolute surety is that there used to be an awesome super-advanced magitek civilization of some kind, and that shit went very wrong for them at some point in the past, making the Monster Hunter setting a post-apocalyptic death-world like Mad Max, except in the opposite direction. (Death world due to too much life, rather than not enough.)
The ancient civilization almost certainly created weaponized lifeforms, or at least bioengineered already-existing lifeforms into weapons, but which lifeforms are descended from the weapons (the monsters or the 'humanoids') is arguable.
Personally I prefer to ascribe to the theory that they're all descendants of ancient bioweapons projects; the ancient civilization wiped itself out in an orgy of progressively more dangerous weaponized lifeforms, as each one got loose and caused chaos they built superior bioweapons to deal with the rogue bioweapons, which themselves promptly went rogue as well. Humans were the last weaponized lifeform they created, intended to be the final solution to all the rogue bioweapons that were tearing the ancient civilization apart.
In that respect, they were an unqualified success. Unfortunately, the ancient civilization was either already dead by the time that humanity was completed, or humanity followed in the footsteps of its predecessors and went rogue, finishing the ancient civilization off.
I think that is a more interesting setup than the dragons being the descendants of the ancient civilization, and of course the various monsters (including Elder Dragons) are sufficiently implausible biologically that there was clearly some kind of bioengineering involved in their creation; the Valstrax for example is not something that is remotely likely to evolve on its own, even with magical assistance, but it is exactly the sort of thing that someone designing dragon bioweapons might come up with to serve as an air-superiority fighter/interceptor.
The ancient civilization almost certainly created weaponized lifeforms, or at least bioengineered already-existing lifeforms into weapons, but which lifeforms are descended from the weapons (the monsters or the 'humanoids') is arguable.
Personally I prefer to ascribe to the theory that they're all descendants of ancient bioweapons projects; the ancient civilization wiped itself out in an orgy of progressively more dangerous weaponized lifeforms, as each one got loose and caused chaos they built superior bioweapons to deal with the rogue bioweapons, which themselves promptly went rogue as well. Humans were the last weaponized lifeform they created, intended to be the final solution to all the rogue bioweapons that were tearing the ancient civilization apart.
In that respect, they were an unqualified success. Unfortunately, the ancient civilization was either already dead by the time that humanity was completed, or humanity followed in the footsteps of its predecessors and went rogue, finishing the ancient civilization off.
I think that is a more interesting setup than the dragons being the descendants of the ancient civilization, and of course the various monsters (including Elder Dragons) are sufficiently implausible biologically that there was clearly some kind of bioengineering involved in their creation; the Valstrax for example is not something that is remotely likely to evolve on its own, even with magical assistance, but it is exactly the sort of thing that someone designing dragon bioweapons might come up with to serve as an air-superiority fighter/interceptor.
- Location
- PA
remind me of "Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet" where ppl went "gundam" & Space Bio creature
my own idea
so wyverian exist & they feel like decendant of ancient
so modern human should be some kind of Half bred thats wyverian x Primitive human
kinda like mutant from x-men
Elder dragons feel like Bio wep gone wrong
like resident evil uwu
Curiously we have yet to find any space faring technology[Valstrax feel like a proto-type space craft] even thou there are so many atmosphere related creature
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
I don't think the ancient civilization had any kind of space program, presumably out of choice rather than capability, because based on what they are known to have accomplished they certainly could have had a space program if they wanted one.
Then again, maybe one of the future Monster Hunter games will go to space and reveal that the local star system is just as overpopulated with space monsters as the planet is. If the ancient civilization did have a space program then it's not surprising there aren't many remnants of it, as most of the evidence for such would have either burned up on re-entry or be located on other moons and planets.
e:
I don't think Valstrax would be space-capable; while they can use pure-rocketry to fly, it is way less efficient than their normal 'ramjet' method of intaking air which is heated and mixed with their dragon element flames and then expelled as exhaust. Said method would obviously not work in space, and there is no indication that Valstrax do not need to breathe, plus they're vulnerable to both fire and ice which is very much not ideal for a space-faring organism.
I'm pretty sure Valstrax were designed to be high-speed, high-altitude air superiority fighter\interceptors, keeping the skies clear so that the other, slower flyers like Fatalis can engage ground targets freely.
Then again, maybe one of the future Monster Hunter games will go to space and reveal that the local star system is just as overpopulated with space monsters as the planet is. If the ancient civilization did have a space program then it's not surprising there aren't many remnants of it, as most of the evidence for such would have either burned up on re-entry or be located on other moons and planets.
e:
I don't think Valstrax would be space-capable; while they can use pure-rocketry to fly, it is way less efficient than their normal 'ramjet' method of intaking air which is heated and mixed with their dragon element flames and then expelled as exhaust. Said method would obviously not work in space, and there is no indication that Valstrax do not need to breathe, plus they're vulnerable to both fire and ice which is very much not ideal for a space-faring organism.
I'm pretty sure Valstrax were designed to be high-speed, high-altitude air superiority fighter\interceptors, keeping the skies clear so that the other, slower flyers like Fatalis can engage ground targets freely.
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Drich
Von Neumann Writing Machine
I mean, if you want to take the recent movie as canon, and there's no real reason not to...
The Ancient Civilization was outright interdimensional. The Sky Tower has been operating for several thousand years, at least, and is still opening random portals between realities.
Said portals can also go through time as well as space, as Artemis is both the product and result of a time loop set up by the Sky Tower.
Which has some funny implications about how the series likes to cross over with everything all the time.
Said portals can also go through time as well as space, as Artemis is both the product and result of a time loop set up by the Sky Tower.
Which has some funny implications about how the series likes to cross over with everything all the time.