I think if we ultimately press Maiko to give us an answer, she'll say that it might be a problem but she shouldn't let it get in the way of our goals.

The bigger concern, and I point this out because it's something Yui would think of on her own anyway, is that Maiko may be too willing to agree even if she's really not okay with it. Maiko has shown plenty of signs that while she may be emotionally stable, she's nowhere near emotionally healthy.

I don't know about everyone else, but parts like this are some of my favorite in the quest. It's almost certainly because I'm a weirdo who loves politics and history, but for what it's worth these scenes remain interesting and engaging for at least one reader.

It's not the content I'm not fully satisfied with, though. I try very hard to show that Yui can be both completely serious and kinda goofy at the same time, so when the serious bits end up being only serious it feels like I'm not getting the character quite right.

If this was a novel I would have set the scene aside and come back later to edit in more Yui-ness, but the quest format kinda precludes that sort of thing.

Even more than this: Konno is currently the only lead into finding Kisaragi's murders. A lot of the early story points out that whoever did it left no traces that Maiko could find. But if Konno had direct contact with them...

Unfortunately, Konno never had direct contact with whoever was behind the request. I meant to imply this by the mention of an intermediary, but I guess that could also be interpreted as just how the initial contact was made. She does know who the intermediary was, but people like that generally aren't hired because of their willingness to rat out previous clients...
 
Even more than this: Konno is currently the only lead into finding Kisaragi's murders. A lot of the early story points out that whoever did it left no traces that Maiko could find. But if Konno had direct contact with them...
Indirect contact, through an intermediary she said. Still, it's a lead. We know someone, somewhere was asking around through networks of information brokers. They "already knew a lot about her" by the time they asked Konno, which either means they asked a bunch of others and got info through them, or they already knew her closely and were hoping to find a hidden secret. That's a lot more than we ever had before.
 
Hmm. This is a volatile situation and I want to think about it more before I vote on what to do about Konno, but as far as the after-vote goes, @Echo , does Yui anticipate having time to see Koharu safely home, drop the seeds off with Rio and co., and then return to look for Calligraphy Girl?
 
Thought: Trusting Maiko to be the better woman here, to not let her personal feelings get in the way would probably work. She'd wrestle down her discomfort for the greater good. I have confidence in her.

But I'm leaning towards putting our foot down as leader. Not because of a lack of trust/faith, not from a callous position. Rather, I want Yui to take that decision out of Maiko's hands so that she doesn't have to wrestle her feelings down and lock them away in a box. She can feel free to resent Konno for her role in things, because it won't affect Yui's plans.

I want to make the fairly easy decision here so that Maiko doesn't have to make a harder one. Take some of the burden off of her. Make sense?

Now somebody write it up into a vote. Very similar to the existing one but gotta make sure we have the right mindset and maybe explain it, maybe not idk
 
-[x] She should move forward with setting up that meeting with Ikue, and let you know when it's ready.
[X] Stand firm. You're ultimately in charge and you've already accepted magical girls who've done unpleasant things to survive. Maiko is mature enough to look past this eventually and Himari is... uh... Himari can be Future Yui's problem. Because Future Yui can totally handle it since she is obviously cooler and better-informed and possibly even cuter than Current Yui.

Rulers rule. This is too good an annexation to drop, and it's less of a betrayal on Maiko's part if she doesn't have to condone it. We shouldn't be asking for her blessing, I think it's a bit cruel to put the choice on her. If the situation is imposed on her she'd be less complicit.
Huh.

I think... if we ask Konno to directly help investigate Kirasagi's death, and she agrees, it would go a long way in helping Maiko accept this.

And make no mistake, Konno would be a big help on that front - in addition to the obvious use of her powers, she'd know who contacted her for the job, and thus would both be able to investigate that person much more easily and would know a wealth of details that she could provide Maiko.

Of course, whoever did the investigating would have done so through a chain of intermediaries, but it's still more of a lead than we've had up till now.
Good call. This should lessen Maiko's guilt even more.

Edit: Adding RedZoneJoe's vote.
[X] We respect Maiko's judgement, we respect her as a person, we look up to her in more than just the literal way. We understand (in the abstract) that she's in a hard position right now. She has to choose between forgiving somebody who may have helped kill her friend, or holding on to that grudge at Yui's expense. A betrayal of either the living or the dead.
-[X] Yui's gonna help out in typical Yui fashion. If both choices suck, then you don't choose either of them! The choice is out of your hands on this one Maiko. We're going ahead with the plan.
[X] You still have new magical girls to track down, get back to that.
- [X] Finish looking into the unknown, possible magical girls.
-[X] Talk to your team about headhunting for middle management megukas.
We're going to need a HR Department. Maybe a probation officer and a therapist and a manager.
Maybe even hire real ones...

Wait, isn't that exactly the sort of thing our scarily driven politician friend with the oscillating power levels would be good at?
 
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Hmm. This is a volatile situation and I want to think about it more before I vote on what to do about Konno, but as far as the after-vote goes, @Echo , does Yui anticipate having time to see Koharu safely home, drop the seeds off with Rio and co., and then return to look for Calligraphy Girl?

Koharu can take care of herself, though? She has enough time to get back via mass transit so it's not like she'll be roofhopping in the open.

As for searching for Calligraphy Girl, if you do that immediately after you're done here you can check her school and have a decent shot at finding her, or rather you will definitely find her if she has after-school activities. If not, you'll be stuck checking multiple locations where she's likely to be.

I will say in advance and Maiko and Minami have continued investigating things on their own, so you'll at least have names and addresses this time.
 
[x] Tell Konno that she was a small enough part in the situation that if she's willing to throw her full effort behind using what little she knows about the situation to identify Momoko's actual killers, you're confident that you can get Momoko's partisans to at least reluctantly accept her. If they don't, after all, they'll be passing up a real chance at avenging her to strike at someone who was hardly involved.
-[x] She should move forward with setting up that meeting with Ikue, and let you know when it's ready.

[x] Hang out with friends for a bit:
- [x] Maiko is likely to be in desperate need of hugs. Attend to her immediately.


Unfortunately, Konno never had direct contact with whoever was behind the request. I meant to imply this by the mention of an intermediary, but I guess that could also be interpreted as just how the initial contact was made. She does know who the intermediary was, but people like that generally aren't hired because of their willingness to rat out previous clients...
Good thing we have a team full of people who don't care much about consent when gathering information, then. And if they're not enough, Shinobu's recruitment is upcoming to force any information out via Sufficient Mind Control. Once we have a lead we can run this up the chain to the source.
 
-[] Talk to your team about headhunting for middle management megukas.
We're going to need a HR Department. Maybe a probation officer and a therapist and a manager.
Maybe even hire real ones...

Wait, isn't that exactly the sort of thing our scarily driven politician friend with the oscillating power levels would be good at?
We could use money to buy normal grownups, or we could pester Asami into becoming a management meguka. She can be our right hand as we rule the world together!

We could use a meguka in a suit and a meguka in golden sunglasses and a large chain. Gang leader megukas should know all about running a city's underworld.
 
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Honestly, I think we should make this decision without consulting Maiko. Forcing her to make the choice between allying someone connected to her mentor's death and keeping good people alive is kind of cruel. Better that she resents Yui a bit than hates herself any more than she already does.
 
[] We respect Maiko's judgement, we respect her as a person, we look up to her in more than just the literal way. We understand (in the abstract) that she's in a hard position right now. She has to choose between forgiving somebody who may have helped kill her friend, or holding on to that grudge at Yui's expense. A betrayal of either the living or the dead.
-[] Yui's gonna help out in typical Yui fashion. If both choices suck, then you don't choose either of them! The choice is out of your hands on this one Maiko. We're going ahead with the plan.


Something like this?
 
[x] Stand firm. You're ultimately in charge and you've already accepted magical girls who've done unpleasant things to survive. Maiko is mature enough to look past this eventually and Himari is... uh... Himari can be Future Yui's problem. Because Future Yui can totally handle it since she is obviously cooler and better-informed and possibly even cuter than Current Yui.

I don't really care about the rest of the vote, but I've been convinced that this is the better path.
 
[] We respect Maiko's judgement, we respect her as a person, we look up to her in more than just the literal way. We understand (in the abstract) that she's in a hard position right now. She has to choose between forgiving somebody who may have helped kill her friend, or holding on to that grudge at Yui's expense. A betrayal of either the living or the dead.
-[] Yui's gonna help out in typical Yui fashion. If both choices suck, then you don't choose either of them! The choice is out of your hands on this one Maiko. We're going ahead with the plan.


Something like this?
Exactly like that. I'm adding it to my vote.
 
[] We respect Maiko's judgement, we respect her as a person, we look up to her in more than just the literal way. We understand (in the abstract) that she's in a hard position right now. She has to choose between forgiving somebody who may have helped kill her friend, or holding on to that grudge at Yui's expense. A betrayal of either the living or the dead.
-[] Yui's gonna help out in typical Yui fashion. If both choices suck, then you don't choose either of them! The choice is out of your hands on this one Maiko. We're going ahead with the plan.


Something like this?

I wouldn't spell it out for her or anything like that. That just makes it seem like we're coddling her, and given she's both older and more experienced than her that would probably just feel humiliating. It probably will either way, but if it were me having it spelled out that I need to be saved from an impossible choice would just make me feel ashamed.

Just make the decision, as is our right as God-Empress of Nagamioka. Then insist on ice-cream.
 
I wouldn't spell it out for her or anything like that. That just makes it seem like we're coddling her, and given she's both older and more experienced than her that would probably just feel humiliating. It probably will either way, but if it were me having it spelled out that I need to be saved from an impossible choice would just make me feel ashamed.

Just make the decision, as is our right as God-Empress of Nagamioka. Then insist on ice-cream.
I don't agree with the coddling her bit. I think Maiko is reeling from an emotional shock. She's trying to balance her feelings and her responsibilities, and it feels terrible.

If we straight up take the decision out of her hands, without context, she'll feel resentment. Then maybe her brain catches up to her emotions and she does out what we're doing, but the resentment doesn't fade because like it or not she's now forced to help someone she (maybe) hates.

Logically, yes Yui is helping me out of a tough spot. But emotionally, these unresolved issues are bubbling up near the surface, and Yui is just adding to it.


Otoh, if we literally spell it out, the brain catches on before the resentment does. Yes we still respect her, this isn't a betrayal, etc. All those insidious little thoughts that feel so at home inside the head of somebody struggling with self-loathing doesn't have time or room to take root, at least not right now with this issue.

Rub fur one way, it's smooth. Another way it bristles. It's worth making sure we approach in the right direction.
 
I don't know if giving Maiko the decision would help with the resentment (though it may be a valid plan still) - she's already under a lot of pressure to say it's okay because Konno is pretty vital to the plan the group has been putting together.
 
I don't know if giving Maiko the decision would help with the resentment (though it may be a valid plan still) - she's already under a lot of pressure to say it's okay because Konno is pretty vital to the plan the group has been putting together.
If you're responding to me... I'm not giving her the decision. I'm just spelling out our intentions for her instead of letting her put the pieces together herself. I'm sure she'd reach the right conclusions, but give certain negative emotions and inch and they'll take a mile.
 
Yeah, letting her choose only makes it worse because she doesn't want to accept but she must or disadvantage Yui for her own personal issues. More grief.
It's not the content I'm not fully satisfied with, though. I try very hard to show that Yui can be both completely serious and kinda goofy at the same time, so when the serious bits end up being only serious it feels like I'm not getting the character quite right.

If this was a novel I would have set the scene aside and come back later to edit in more Yui-ness, but the quest format kinda precludes that sort of thing.

Put her in Nekomimi, thus she's automatically goofying
 
It's not the content I'm not fully satisfied with, though. I try very hard to show that Yui can be both completely serious and kinda goofy at the same time, so when the serious bits end up being only serious it feels like I'm not getting the character quite right.
Is Yui a magical girl spiderman?
 
If you're responding to me... I'm not giving her the decision. I'm just spelling out our intentions for her instead of letting her put the pieces together herself. I'm sure she'd reach the right conclusions, but give certain negative emotions and inch and they'll take a mile.

Sorry was kind of replying to some earlier arguments. In a rush atm and this will be last post for a bit. I would be satisfied with any approach which

1. Impresses on how horrifying the assassination was to Konno and that she has a responsibility to assist in investigating if she had any part in it.
2. Impresses on Maiko that Konno had a very small (if any) part in Kisaragi's death, and is a lead in gaining justice for her (if Konno shows remorse that would he nice)
3. Takes the decision out of Maiko's hands.
 
BTW, for the "what to do afterwards" portion of the vote, feel free to include multiple options so long as they're listed in the order you want them done in. Some of them won't likely need to break for another vote (handing over the Grief Seeds to the Itabashi trio, for instance) and as such can be included as part of a larger update. OTOH, talking to Chou or one of the newbies you haven't met yet will definitely break for a vote.

Also please remember to actually have a "what to do afterwards" portion because otherwise the next update will be very short. :V

I wouldn't spell it out for her or anything like that. That just makes it seem like we're coddling her, and given she's both older and more experienced than her that would probably just feel humiliating.

Rub fur one way, it's smooth. Another way it bristles. It's worth making sure we approach in the right direction.

This seems like a good time to reiterate a couple things about how I run this quest:
  • Yui, unlike e.g. Sabrina, is not just a proxy for the voters. She has an excellent intuition for dealing with people and, within reason, she'll follow the intent of the vote in whatever manner she thinks will be most successful. Short of explicitly voting for something that stomps directly on a emotional button things probably won't blow up in your face. As a corollary of this, if something is very risky socially in ways that would be obvious to Yui, I will warn you with enough time to rework the vote if desired. In this particular case, while there are two named characters for whom the "take the decision out of their hands" approach would be catastrophic if presented poorly, Maiko is not one of them.
  • The better I understand the intent behind the vote and the more detailed the reasoning behind it, the more forgiving I'll be even if you do make a misstep. This is a purely Doylist policy intended to encourage discussion and write-ins. In other words, the QM can be bribed by filling the thread with things the QM enjoys. :V
I don't know if giving Maiko the decision would help with the resentment (though it may be a valid plan still) - she's already under a lot of pressure to say it's okay because Konno is pretty vital to the plan the group has been putting together.

Konno would be part of the recruitment plan regardless. My expectation is that if you decide it's best to not have Konno around, she'd essentially get a more generous version of the offer Aya and Suzume did--a small supply of Grief Seeds and a Yui-subsidized train ticket to anywhere in Japan.

(if Konno shows remorse that would he nice)

Konno has already shown some remorse, though to be fair it's more a "I'm sorry this upsets you" than a "I'm sorry I did it at all" type of thing.

Put her in Nekomimi, thus she's automatically goofying

[* traumatic AsukaQuest flashbacks *]

Is Yui a magical girl spiderman?

Eh... it's been ages since I watched/read any Spiderman stuff but I vaguely recall him being a lot snarkier than Yui?
 
1. Impresses on how horrifying the assassination was to Konno and that she has a responsibility to assist in investigating if she had any part in it.
2. Impresses on Maiko that Konno had a very small (if any) part in Kisaragi's death, and is a lead in gaining justice for her (if Konno shows remorse that would he nice)
3. Takes the decision out of Maiko's hands.
1 is fine, but I feel like she already has an idea given how she got all pale and nervous before revealing it. I don't wanna be too heavy-handed here, though I ultimately agree. It's just a matter of degrees I suspect.

2 is... Best saved for later, imo. Doing it right now would seem like we're defending Konno from Maiko's righteous wrath, which might be true on a technical level but definitely isn't the card we want to play emotionally. I think it's the sort of thing we bring up later, when the shock has faded and tempers cool. We go over the finer points of the plan with the crew back at base later, and bring this up as a path to redemption rather than a defense or justification.

3 I agree fully, with only the small addition that I'd like to work out our reasoning so as to avoid negative thoughts whispering poison into her ear.
 
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[X] Tell Konno that she was a small enough part in the situation that if she's willing to throw her full effort behind using what little she knows about the situation to identify Momoko's actual killers, you're confident that you can get Momoko's partisans to at least reluctantly accept her. If they don't, after all, they'll be passing up a real chance at avenging her to strike at someone who was hardly involved.
-[X] She should move forward with setting up that meeting with Ikue, and let you know when it's ready.
-[X] Nagamioka is big enough for her to never have to once run across someone who knew Momoko in the flesh. Like, she could stay with Rio's gang or something.
[X] Hang out with friends for a bit:
- [X] Maiko is likely to be in desperate need of hugs. Attend to her immediately.
[X] Swing by Rio, Fuuka, and Kiyomi's house to hand off the Grief Seeds you owe them.
- [X] Show up unannounced. Hey, Rio said to stop by any time today, right?

Decided we'll probably need a palate cleanser by the end there. Bring on the shenanigans!


So... Naoko and Sociopath Girl? Eh? Eh? Good idea, or best idea, whaddaya say

It'd be like the Odd Couple, but more emotionally empty!
 
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So, considering Maiko is likely to agree even if she isn't emotionally able to work with Konno, I had an idea. (It kinda depends on how Konno's magic works, i. e. can she find out information when she doesn't have very many details?)

If Maiko gives us the okay for bringing Konno into the infogroup, our first and immediate question for Konno should be if Kisaragi's friends that are part of our group are actually able to work with Konno and be emotionally okay.

Then make it clear that this is just the audition for getting into the infogroup itself, and if Konno reveals that they can't, she'll simply be supported but left on the outskirts of the organization as a whole, possibly with some longterm but useful task so she can be useful.

(This is what Maiko's veto would probably end up looking like in my books)

(Until the others have time to work through the emotions and accept her presence) (hey, we could have her investigate Kisaragi's murder as a bonus objective/path back into the organization, (although, most of the bracketed stuff, we would tell her at a later date/when it happens).

(We would also want to say this in a way that isn't malicious against Maiko/as if we don't trust her, but more that we've noticed she's willing to give so much to help us, but even sometimes when we don't need it, and that we care about her a lot and that her wellbeing (and that of all of our subordinates) matters to us quite a lot.)

(This lets us prove very visibly to Maiko that we don't just value her for the choice she would make, but for her. Her spoken answer doesn't really matter except as it pertains to the true answer, and we won't accept anything but what is actually healthy for her).

(We should also watch for her to realize what's up/get some quick help monitoring her train of thought/reactions, because:

Once Konno gives us the answer, we check with Maiko if it's correct. Because we also need to know if Konno is willing to be loyal to us, even to her own short term detriment. And Maiko would not allow someone into the group who lied to us for their own gain just so she could cover her own willingness to hurt herself for our gain.

So now, if she isn't able to work with Konno, and Konno says she is able to, Maiko really wants to say so, and we know we can't trust Konno. Truthful twofer, answer bargain, get one and get a second one free.

Conversely, if Konno says they aren't able to, we know Konno is willing to put herself aside and at least aim for long term gains, and maybe even for the good of the group. (and we know that once they are okay with it, we can trust Konno)

Then it becomes a question of if it's Maiko or Koharu's big sister who aren't able to work with her (or both) (we could maybe just ask about Maiko, but we really need both to okay it, and just her would possibly feel meaner and more targeted, so idk).

Or both insist they can live with it, and Konno is just lying for . . . Some reason? Both of them are really unaware of their feelings? Idk.

Maiko now has no incentive to bury her own emotions to get us a powerful info-meguca, and can be clear about her feelings. If she's still okay with it, we have verification, and we just have to talk to the big sister and/or be confused.

Of course, all that's just layer one.

If Konno thinks about this for half a second and realises how much Maiko is willing to sacrifice for us, she would also realise that any lying would immediately be revealed by Maiko.

(If we can obfuscate how close we are to Kisaragi's friends, that might make it a bit more solid, assuming she doesn't know why her contact with the killers is such a problem in detail.)

Meaning, this is a test of loyalty if she doesn't think it through, but if she does, it's a message, a challenge, and a question. Something like "yes, I can be tricky when I need to, and I care about my friends a lot, so don't mess with me, but are you willing, and do you think you're good enough, to work with me honestly and well and reap the enormous benefits of my genuine friendship."

Then we watch how she reacts. If she goes straight through and answers, either she's good enough to hide her reaction from us, or she didn't notice. This gives us the most black and white answer.

If she reacts, and is worried or put off by the test/message/challenge, we know to maybe not trust her completely yet, and work on giving her incentives to care and stay with us, but at least she is analytical enough to figure that out.

If she reacts, positively to the challenge, confidently or thoughtfully to the test, or happily to the message, we know we can trust her at least a good amount.

And following that last reaction, if her answer is they're okay working with her, and Maiko and the big sis agree, then she's good and in.


So I'm not sure how well this idea would actually work, if it's a bit too insensitive, and if Konno would react to it right, or if some unknown factor might mess up the test, or even if Konno's magic doesn't work well enough for it, or if it gives her too much info somehow or what?

Basically, anyone see any glaring flaws? Ways to improve this? Thoughts? Do I have the social grace and intelligence of a lemming?

I'll put a write in vote for this if anyone wants to add it:

[X] Be gentle, but press Maiko for a yes or no. You trust her and refuse to drive a wedge between the two of you by ignoring her feelings, but don't want to leave things unresolved with the Adachi group.
- [X] Make it clear that you'd rather continue with the agreement, but are offering Maiko a standing veto if she feels it's necessary
- - [X] Test Konno by testing Maiko's answer. Nicely, and with full confidence Konno will pass and Maiko will, at worst, be accused of caring about you too much, the monster. Make it clear that no matter what, you'll still help Konno and keep her safe in your new magical girl utopia.
- - - [X] Mention to Maiko and Konno your idea for her to help find out more about who killed Kisaragi. As both a lead, and an investigator.
[] Maiko needs some down time. Make her slack off and do something fun and uplifting. Don't take no for an answer.
[X] Swing by Rio, Fuuka, and Kiyomi's house to hand off the Grief Seeds you owe them.
- [X] Let them know you're on your way.
[X] You still have new magical girls to track down, get back to that.
- [X] Track down the calligraphy girl from last night

After we finish this meeting, we don't really need Maiko's help, and it would be good to have her find something healthy we can push her into doing. We should see if we can get her to come up with stuff she enjoys. Or maybe, if she and the big sister are good friends, I don't remember, we could get her to hang out with her by asking her to talk to the big sister about Konno working with the team. If that wouldn't just remind them of bad stuff? Idk, someone else probably has a better idea.

Then, we really gotta drop off the seeds. Those are the basis for our whole system, we can't have a history of being slow with those. Plus it should hopefully just be a quick run in, drop off, and run off. We can even keep half an eye out for things to investigate later for the next part if we're passing through the right area.

We do need to find the other magical girls because time is indeed dead kids. However, paint girl was going silly with her magic from what I remember, and we are already aware of her presence, giving us a starting point and a connection to care about. We need to find her first. We can also see about grabbing a quick witch or two, assuming it isn't too powerful(/doesn't turn into a vote) and is convenient.

We should also make some plans to make some standard jobs/services for people. We don't really have enough time to search for new girls, or hand out grief seeds, or hunt enough for everyone, or any of the 100 other things that need doing, and we'll have even less as time goes on. We need to come up with some quick structures that each MG in our territory can rely on and use without our constant input.

Mostly, I'm thinking have girls know who to call to be directed towards witches, and have a person or two whose job it is to run around and hand out grief seeds/gossip. Gotta get a sense of community going, and girls relying on each other is the fastest way to build those bonds. (Second fastest is have group events, fun meetings, and stuff like that. Make this into an institution).

I don't know about everyone else, but parts like this are some of my favorite in the quest.

Tbh same. I'm all here for cute and silly protag being competent in political situations and surprising everyone who doesn't know her well enough, and some that do, all while being really funny and a pure-hearted breath of fresh air against the bleakness and cruelty.
 
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