...I see why people don't want to debate morality with you. I'm not even going to attempt to debate this, as it's very clear that you and I have such disparate viewpoints on the matter that attempting to debate about this will only frustrate everyone in the thread.
Oh you have no idea.
 
What you're referencing is a body hijack. Not the thing we used at the bridge. You're misunderstanding something.
You are right; so I am. You are talking dominate meguca as opposed to hijack body. Fair enough.

Of course, that still costs us in the thousands.
Here is where we used the ability:
...you also now realize that somehow in all of this you've managed to use quite a lot of magic.

Yui's Corruption: 4,480 / 10,000
...and here was the latest corruption total show:
Yui's Corruption: 1,930 / 10,000
Admittedly, there was some time in between, but we didn't really do any serious magic, so I expect that to still cost 2k+ grief.
 
You are right; so I am. You are talking dominate meguca as opposed to hijack body. Fair enough.

Of course, that still costs us in the thousands.
Here is where we used the ability:

...and here was the latest corruption total show:

Admittedly, there was some time in between, but we didn't really do any serious magic, so I expect that to still cost 2k+ grief.

The expense came from interference from Hisae. Her power caused ours to short out somehow, which had the side effect of our grief spike. My guess is our power overloaded trying to push through Hisaes interference.

We don't know how expensive that power is under normal circumstances.
 
I don't expect it to be as costly as it was against Hisae. And if it is, I fully expect it to be worth the cost. This is a circumstance in which this power should be useful. And if it isn't? We should know that too.
 
*Looks at thread. Sees Morality arguments and Mura having to vote against redteam at one point*
...Oh hey, ummmm still need to write my own quest, hahaha...I'll just... be going there now...which is not here...or on fire.
 
For example, division of labor: if we can build a gathering team composed entirely of girls like Maiko with Wish magic that doesn't cost corruption, and we hunt all witches using only that team, we could probably cut total Grief expenditures in our empire by an order of magnitude.

Maiko's magic is very nearly unique in being flexible, clearly supernatural, and entirely corruption-free.

Actually, here's another bit of wish mechanics that applies in this quest: "Wish magic" acquired as a means to fulfill the wish will have low or nonexistent corruption costs. Magic that's only tangentially related to fulfilling the wish, or using the core magic in ways that clearly go beyond the bounds of the wish, will have corruption costs. Examples:
  • Homura's time looping is free, but her time stop isn't.
  • Naoko's regeneration is nearly free, but healing other people isn't.
  • Kaede's clairvoyance and tracking are nearly free.
  • Maiko's unique magic is free, and using her grimoire to develop new spells is nearly free.
  • Shinobu's compulsion effect is nearly free.

You pointed out we would face magical girls so twisted redemption would be impossible. We pointed out that with perfect capture, we can wait until redemption becomes possible.

I will say that redemption won't always be possible. You can't fix wish-induced mindfuckery, for instance.

Try not making shitty analogies then.

...that seems a little harsh. :(

We had 2,785 corruption in Ch. 1: The Future Isn't Difficult To See (14), and we cleansed it all with one seed, so that tells us a rough grief-seed capacity. From this we conclude that we should, indeed, expect our grief expenditures here to be in the thousands.

Typical Grief Seed capacity is 2k-3k. Right now it'll be a bit higher because lots of old, powerful witches are active. Under normal circumstances the lower end of that range will be more common.

Which was a fairly expensive ability, although I think he's overstating it's cost.

Admittedly, there was some time in between, but we didn't really do any serious magic, so I expect that to still cost 2k+ grief.

The expense came from interference from Hisae. Her power caused ours to short out somehow, which had the side effect of our grief spike. My guess is our power overloaded trying to push through Hisaes interference.

We don't know how expensive that power is under normal circumstances.

I don't expect it to be as costly as it was against Hisae. And if it is, I fully expect it to be worth the cost. This is a circumstance in which this power should be useful. And if it isn't? We should know that too.

The specifics of how that bit of magic works aren't known for sure by either Yui or the thread, so it's hard to predict how much it would cost.

However, the reason Yui spent that much magic the first time without noticing is that she let herself get carried away by the effect as well. If she's paying attention, she's capable of backing off without burning a lot of magic on something that isn't working.

I'll just... be going there now...which is not here...or on fire.

Don't be silly, nothing here is on fire. Koharu's grounded, remember? :V
 
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It's been fairly civil for such a contentious topic, actually. I was kind of surprised.

Yeah, that was quite mild for a "flamewar".

There was a lot of really good discussion, in fact. I was really happy with it, overall.

The main problem in the end just seems to be fatigue, so I should probably close the votes tonight whether I have time to write or not, to avoid leaving things hanging.
 
There was a lot of really good discussion, in fact. I was really happy with it, overall.

The main problem in the end just seems to be fatigue, so I should probably close the votes tonight whether I have time to write or not, to avoid leaving things hanging.

Well, I'm going to bed. I live in hope that I'll overtake @Vebyast's bandwagon, but I won't be around to promote my vote. I'm much happier with the two bandwagons than what the initial votes were, anyway.
 
Yeah, I find the current leading votes acceptable. Maiko will probably just say no to containing Naoko. Though the last line in Vebyast's vote is... odd.
 
So you're perfectly willing to condemn two people to death because it would make Yui's life easier? If it was genuinely impossible to contain them or they were completely psychotic and unsalvageable I'd accept it, but sacrificing human life for the sake of convenience is not exactly what I'd call moral behavior.
Yui's life is dedicated to saving others. Things that make her life more difficult are making saving others more difficult.

Additionally, to be frank I suspect having Naoko and Kaede around will rapidly make this quest unfun and it will die soon afterwards, so there's a bit of meta there.
 
I took out the last line. It's funny and conveys significant meaningful information about Yui's long-term intentions and moral views, but it seems like a lot of people don't like it too much.
 
Additionally, to be frank I suspect having Naoko and Kaede around will rapidly make this quest unfun and it will die soon afterwards, so there's a bit of meta there.

Out of curiosity, why do you say that? I like to think I could handle any reasonable choice of action in a way that would still be enjoyable...

I took out the last line. It's funny and conveys significant meaningful information about Yui's long-term intentions and moral views, but it seems like a lot of people don't like it too much.

I was actually gonna ask if you really intended that to be said verbatim, because leading with "what the fuck" is a bit jarring since Yui basically doesn't swear (or use whatever sort of rude phrasing that would supposedly correspond to in the hypothetical Japanese she'd be speaking).

In fact, I got curious and did a quick (and possibly slightly inaccurate) tally of how often characters in the quest have said "fuck". :V
  • Maiko gave a flat "...fuck." once.
  • Koharu said some variation on "I fucked up".
  • Yumi said fuck three times, twice using "fucking" as an intensifier and once using "fuck me" as an expression of irritation.
  • Asami said variations on the word fuck, uh, twenty-two times. Maybe more, I might have lost count.
 
Out of curiosity, why do you say that? I like to think I could handle any reasonable choice of action in a way that would still be enjoyable...



I was actually gonna ask if you really intended that to be said verbatim, because leading with "what the fuck" is a bit jarring since Yui basically doesn't swear (or use whatever sort of rude phrasing that would supposedly correspond to in the hypothetical Japanese she'd be speaking).

In fact, I got curious and did a quick (and possibly slightly inaccurate) tally of how often characters in the quest have said "fuck". :V
  • Maiko gave a flat "...fuck." once.
  • Koharu said some variation on "I fucked up".
  • Yumi said fuck three times, twice using "fucking" as an intensifier and once using "fuck me" as an expression of irritation.
  • Asami said variations on the word fuck, uh, twenty-two times. Maybe more, I might have lost count.

Jokes on you, they're all speaking Japanese! So they probably said 'fuck' way less than that many times. :V
 
I'd have left it to your discretion if you'd questioned it, and I may have implicitly assumed that you'd alter it anyway. Have there been any verbatim votes in this quest yet? Some QMs take direct quotes as just slightly stronger suggestions and indications that something is specifically to be said out loud rather than thought.
 
There was a lot of really good discussion, in fact. I was really happy with it, overall.

The main problem in the end just seems to be fatigue, so I should probably close the votes tonight whether I have time to write or not, to avoid leaving things hanging.
Yeah, this was hard but fun. I am worried, but in a good way. I wish more quests were like this, but they tend towards being too easy or players actually getting emotionally hurt.
 
Jokes on you, they're all speaking Japanese! So they probably said 'fuck' way less than that many times. :V

Well yeah, but you know what I mean. :V

Asami's speech, for the record, should be interpreted as not especially feminine, inappropriately direct, and sometimes lacking in the expected self/in-group humility, plus occasional joking uses of that "impolite to the point of self-parody" thing that only anime characters do unironically. Or something like that, my knowledge of Japanese is fairly limited.

Have there been any verbatim votes in this quest yet? Some QMs take direct quotes as just slightly stronger suggestions and indications that something is specifically to be said out loud rather than thought.

If the vote includes something in quotes, I'll generally have Yui say something as close to that as possible in the context of the surrounding dialogue. In this case I was going to ask about it, because being uncharacteristically emphatic is plausible enough that I'd want to know if that was the intent.
 
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