Project Knight [Mecha Design Bureau]

I really have no idea how we are going to get Skeletal Agility up, but my current goals is fulfilling as many of the requirements as possible and fixing our heat management as the dice really decided to screw us over there.
My guess is we might be able to improve that with funding at the end, or if we leave extra tonnage open to make it faster. But we might have to consider that we won't be able to sell to the Amazon given we're short on two stats instead of one.
 
[] Plan 2A2C
-[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only)
--[] Long-Range Comms Array (1 ton, size 0 - externally mounted)
-[] Frontal Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Extra Turret Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Front only)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
-[] Rear Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Extra Drone Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Rear only)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)


2A2C: Armor, Ammo, Cooling, Comms

I don't remember where people read "we need 10 tons of armor to compete with tanks", but here's a simple plan to add 4.5 tons of obviously-useful stuff, leave 10 for armor, and call it a day.

I agree that Fire Suppression seems like a good idea, maybe that could substitute for the drone ammo.
 
If you're going for no extra ammo load, could I at least interest you in a fire supression system?
The thing about fire supression is I'm not quite sure how often it will come into play in this setting. If we're building a mook mecha, we'll see it be outright destroyed more often than hit and damaged. Yes?

I think the next component above the bare minimum would be the Heat Sink, just to make sure that we secure the desert nation contract if the cooling system is not enough.
 
Power & Cooling:
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1) - These will be good for helping with the Sahel contract
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1) - But we want to take this first. It costs 2 HS, and gives us 3.
--[] Power Cell Bank (1.5 tons, size 1) - Range is good, and works with the life support. On the other hand it doesn't help with any of our primary targets.

Computer Systems:
--[] AI Core (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1) - Too costly for what it does.
--[] AGILE Drive Controller (0.5 tons, size 1, Front, Rear only - max 1 per location) - Counter productive. Helps one stat for the Amazon contract and hurts the one that will be harder to improve.
--[] ECM Suite (1 ton, size 1, max 1) - EWAR is good, but it's a nice to have not a need.
--[] EPM Suite (1 ton, size 1, max 1)- EWAR is good, but it's a nice to have not a need.
--[] Networked Targeting Computer (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1) - This is also good, but it's a nice to have not a need.

Sensors & Comms:
--[] Radar System (0.5 tons, size 0 - externally mounted) - Has it's uses but this thing isn't an air defense unit and it doesn't have the indirect fire mount
--[] Seismic Sensors (1 ton, size 1 - Front, Rear only) - This are fun to use in Battletech but very situational.
--[] Long-Range Comms Array (1 ton, size 0 - externally mounted) - Communications not being jammable is quite nice. I want to try to fit this.

Life Support:
--[] Cockpit Airlock System (1 ton, size 2 - Central only) - This would help for the SCC but our other clients won't care much.
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5) - This is a steal. I really want one in the central area.

Ammo:
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only) - 25 rounds of ammo is just not enough.
--[] Extra Turret Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Front only) - Feels less important then main gun ammo.
--[] Extra Drone Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Rear only) - The drones are a support tool.
--[] Extended Drone Hangar (1.5 tons, size 1, Rear only) - Again, too costly for a light support weapon.

I like the plan by @CuriousRaptor for the most part. I don't see the point in putting extra drone ammo in, as I feel that recon drones will be more important then a few extra rounds of 40mm for combat drones. This plan gives us 45 rounds of ammo for the main gun. That is still light but I feel that it's the most we can get away with.


[]Plan Main Gun is primary
-[]Front Hull
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
-[]Central Hull (4 tons, 4 size)
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
--[] Long-Range Comms Array (1 ton, size 0 - externally mounted)
--[] Networked Targeting Computer (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only) x2
-[]Rear Hull

You'd need at least 5 tons to get armour worthy of an armoured fighting vehicle, preferably twice that if you want to compete with a high-end enemy tank. This would require some careful planning.

I don't remember where people read "we need 10 tons of armor to compete with tanks", but here's a simple plan to add 4.5 tons of obviously-useful stuff, leave 10 for armor, and call it a day.
It's in the Threadmark.

The thing about fire supression is I'm not quite sure how often it will come into play in this setting. If we're building a mook mecha, we'll see it be outright destroyed more often than hit and damaged. Yes?
Keeping pilots alive and keeping the mech from blowing up means you have a better chance to repair the thing and get it back into the fight. This is a selling feature to people in setting who are not aware of genre tropes.
 
Fair enough

[] Plan 2A2C with fire suppression
-[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only)
--[] Long-Range Comms Array (1 ton, size 0 - externally mounted)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
-[] Frontal Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Extra Turret Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Front only)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
-[] Rear Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)

Alternative:

[] Plan HAFA
-[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
-[] Frontal Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
-[] Rear Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)

Removes the comms booster and turret ammo in favour of more armour (11.5 tons), or empty space that might raise Skeletal Agility.
 
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[] Plan BT-7274 Lives Again
-[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
--[] EPM Suite (1 ton, size 1, max 1)
--[] Networked Targeting Computer (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only)
-[] Rear Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] ECM Suite (1 ton, size 1, max 1)
-[] Radar System (0.5 tons, size 0 - externally mounted)

That comes out to a total of 5 tons leaving 9.5 for armor, a full-size EWAR suite with all the bells and whistles, significantly improves its power as a scout and support mech, almost doubling the main gun's ammo capacity, and all it costs is;

[-0.33] Power Control, [-0.33] Heat Management, [-0.66] Tech Simplicity

And some potential bugs to work out in the AI, which can be turned off or removed if needed.

EDIT: Jalinth suggested a decent edit so I'm swapping the ammo with the ECM Suite. That also puts the ammo on top of the Fire Suppression which might help keep it from cooking off.

[] Plan BT-7274 Lives Again w/Cooling
-[] Same as Base except add
--[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
---[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
 
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[-0.33] Power Control, [-0.33] Heat Management, [-0.66] Tech Simplicity
Our heat is on the borderline for one contract and our tech simplicity is already quite bad. We are trying to sell to second tier states, not to primary powers. Can you please explain why you think these are good sacrifices as I do not understand. Which contracts do you think your plan would help with?

Also you are putting the ammo in the rear, right beside a noteable weakpoint that as at least one client very nervous.
 
[] Plan Best Buddy
-[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
--[] AI Core (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
--[] ECM Suite (1 ton, size 1, max 1)
--[] EPM Suite (1 ton, size 1, max 1)
--[] Networked Targeting Computer (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
-[] Rear Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only)
-[] Radar System (0.5 tons, size 0 - externally mounted)

That comes out to a total of 5 tons, a full-size EWAR suite with all the bells and whistles, almost doubling the main gun's ammo capacity, and all it costs is;

[-0.33] Power Control, [-0.33] Heat Management, [-0.66] Tech Simplicity

And some potential bugs to work out in the AI
It also makes us guaranteed lose out on two contracts and given that a third was by word of QM shaky could easily turn this into a failure of a design. It makes our choice for the double cockpit entirely pointless except in the basest sense of number go up, and frankly if that was your goal we could have gone with a simpler life support single cockpit in an area with no maluses and come out VASTLY more ahead in terms of everything over this.

[]Plan Main Gun is primary
-[]Front Hull
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
-[]Central Hull (4 tons, 4 size)
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
--[] Long-Range Comms Array (1 ton, size 0 - externally mounted)
--[] Networked Targeting Computer (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only) x2
-[]Rear Hull
Only flaw i see is that the extra slot loss for the central might make armoring this harder. But that's a fair plan.
 
It doesn't shrink the center by quite as much, but does shrink the aft. I feel it would be pretty much a wash, as with the weak point we are going to want to put extra armour back there.
True, but since i was Figuring Armor needs to be uniform a 2 slot free all around is probably better uniform protection than say a 1.5 as armor generally gains strength exponentially in uniform thickness.
 
True, but since i was Figuring Armor needs to be uniform a 2 slot free all around is probably better uniform protection than say a 1.5 as armor generally gains strength exponentially in uniform thickness.
It's hard to say. We could move the targeting computer into the rear if you feel the need, which would deal with that. If we get a full pen hit in the rear then the loss of the computer isn't going to be a big deal.
 
[] Plan: Coordinated Fire Support
-[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
--[] Extra 152mm Ammo (0.5 tons, size 0.5, Central, Rear only)
-[] Frontal Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Networked Targeting Computer (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
-[] Rear Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Long-Range Comms Array (1 ton, size 0 - externally mounted)
--[] Radar System (0.5 tons, size 0 - externally mounted)

Alright, let me explain. The way I see it, our mech is destined to play at fire support. It's got a big, long-range gun with a lot of stopping power. The mech equivalent of a sniper or tank. I want our units to link up and coordinate to attack from long-range, where their weaknesses are less pronounced. The Radar, Long Range Comms, and Networked Targeting Computer are designed to give us a formidable and accurate long-range punch (as well as incentivize buying multiples of our unit, so they can work together.) while the Liquid Cooling, Fire Suppression, and ammo are to give us better heat control and endurance in a fight.

Does anyone have any suggestions, comments, complaints, or so on?
 
[]Plan: Cool A.I.
-[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
--[] AI Core (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
--[] Cockpit Airlock System (1 ton, size 2 - Central only)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
--[] Networked Targeting Computer (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
-[] Frontal Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
--[] Seismic Sensors (1 ton, size 1 - Front, Rear only)
--[] EPM Suite (1 ton, size 1, max 1)
-[] Rear Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
--[] AGILE Drive Controller (0.5 tons, size 1, Front, Rear only - max 1 per location)
--[] Power Cell Bank (1.5 tons, size 1)
--[] Radar System (0.5 tons, size 0 - externally mounted)

Here is my plan focusing more on A.I. benefits and fixing our heat management issues. I opted not to include any of the ammo options due to worry of it blowing up and prioritizing software a bit more. What do you guys think?
 
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As for the overall design itself, it's pretty good at what it does. The choices for four-leg locomotion and basic main gun are sort of uninspired, but I can see why they were made. My major objection would be the drone mount, for which I don't see much use. Why waste space for drones on the mech itself where there would be cheaper platforms for them? Anyways, it's a minor issue.
Yeah it was a contentious topic at the time. I believe the main argument in favour was that it saves clients from needing to build dedicated drone launchers. Also, detecting hidden enemies without needing to wait for someone outside the mech to tell you.

I don't remember whether I voted for drones; I do remember that my initial desire for a rear mount was a direct-fire weapon to deal with flanking enemies. Since even at the time of choosing mounts, it was clear that this mech won't move quickly.

I do regret voting for Twin Seat and Extended Life Support now that I see how many subsystems there are. I kind of thought it was gonna be like the Battletech video game where you just slap on some heatsinks and maybe a TTS or arm mod. But, learn for next time.
 
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I'm not quite sure how the rolls work though. From what I understand, if our design choice is going to impact something there is always a roll to either enhance the benefit or the reduce the trade-off. But, how do I know what is the expected value of change if the roll is in the middle, how do I know what happens on the lowest roll and what happens on the highest roll? Also, how can I estimate the amount of rolls left in the category?

I'll be rewriting and cleaning the system and presentation when I take a break between mechs, then I'll 'publish' a player-facing copy of the rules, which should go a long way to help with this. For now I've opted for consistency and accepting the lack of clarity as supporting the narrative!

I do regret voting for Twin Hull and Extended Cockpit now that I see how many subsystems there are. I kind of thought it was gonna be like the Battletech video game where you just slap on some heatsinks and maybe a TTS or arm gyro. But, learn for next time.

To be fair, I expect that at some point as weight efficiency improves and technology, some of this stuff could simply become an assumed part of the Mech. But since it's early days, and since the chassis is so heavy and inefficient, I am forcing some hard decisions!
 
Does anyone have any suggestions, comments, complaints, or so on?
Why the Radar System? If you want to see it used in a fire support role then it wouldn't be picking targets by itself, rather it would fire at stuff designated by whatever command vehicle or big radar platform the operator is using.

As for extra ammunition... How does one judge how much ammo is enough ammo? If this crawler is supposed to be on the defensive, we can assume it's going to be frequently resupplied. Isn't that the case?
 
On the topic of Tech Simplicity this is where we are sitting at -
While the components were complex and difficult to make, this was currently more of a limiter on where you would be able to set up manufacturing of the mech - maintainability was now good enough that the locals should have no problems keeping them running.
I don't want to make this any worse. I'm worried if it gets too complex folks we are going to have problems.

As for the ammo -
We've outfitted the weapon systems as best as we can. There are a couple of minor issues - the weak point in the rear of the hull and the limited ammo supply for the main gun come to mind.
So the limited ammo is not something I came up with on my own. It's a concern. I'm also painfully aware of how fast you can burn through 25 rounds. One of the main reasons you that 120-125mm guns have been the standard on MBTs for pushing 40 years is the fact that ammo gets larger and heavier. The gun we choose has flexible ammo types. In order to take advantage of that we need to have room for those other rounds in reasonable numbers. Every HE round you take is one less AP round. Every special ammo type means 1 less of the bread and butter ammo.

Does anyone have any suggestions, comments, complaints, or so on?
The main gun is a direct fire weapon, so it needs line of sight anyway. We have drones to provide spotting. This makes the RADAR system feel less important to me.
 
Can you please break down which contracts you feel this will help us target?
I was more focused on providing a cohesive product than any of the targets in particular. The coolant and heat sinks are to fix our heat management issues, the A.I. core integrates with too many systems to ignore so I included seismic sensors and radar systems to increase awareness which can be passed to friendly mechs thanks to the network targeting computer....wait why isn't that there? Let me fix that and done!

Anyway the air lock and sprinklers were added to help protect the pilots and the power cell bank was included to negate the power control loss. The EPM was included to provide protection for the systems. This mech should be able to serve as a good defender by being able to detect opposition, share it with allies, and be able to respond appropriately. The increase in Skeletal Agility also greatly helps.

Bonus is that there is still leftover space in the front and rear, about 1 Size if I did my math correct.
 
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I was more focused on providing a cohesive product than any of the targets in particular. The coolant and heat sinks are to fix our heat management issues, the A.I. core integrates with too many systems to ignore so I included seismic sensors and radar systems to increase awareness which can be passed to friendly mechs thanks to the network targeting computer....wait why isn't that there? Let me fix that and done!

Anyway the air lock and sprinklers were added to help protect the pilots and the power cell bank was included to negate the power control loss. The EPM was included to provide protection for the systems. This mech should be able to serve as a good defender by being able to detect opposition, share it with allies, and be able to respond appropriately. The increase in Skeletal Agility also greatly helps.

Bonus is that there is still leftover space in the front and rear, about 1 Size if I did my math correct.
[]Plan: Cool A.I.
-[] Central Hull (available size: 5.5)
--[] Liquid Cooling System (1 ton, size 2, Central only - max 1)
--[] AI Core (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
--[] Cockpit Airlock System (1 ton, size 2 - Central only)
--[] Auto Fire Suppression System (0.5 tons, size 0.5)
--[] Networked Targeting Computer (0.5 tons, size 0.5, max 1)
-[] Frontal Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
--[] Seismic Sensors (1 ton, size 1 - Front, Rear only)
--[] EPM Suite (1 ton, size 1, max 1)
-[] Rear Hull (available size: 3.5)
--[] Heatsink (0.5 tons, size 1)
--[] AGILE Drive Controller (0.5 tons, size 1, Front, Rear only - max 1 per location)
--[] Power Cell Bank (1.5 tons, size 1)
--[] Radar System (0.5 tons, size 0 - externally mounted)

Here is my plan focusing more on A.I. benefits and fixing our heat management issues. I opted not to include any of the ammo options due to worry of it blowing up and prioritizing software a bit more. What do you guys think?
Biggest issue i can see is taht due to this weighing in at 9 tons, we will have no armor, at all. Which means we fail the core design for the brief or only pass it on such a technicality that we still fail in the real world. We also hard the Amazon contact with the tech simplicity being at best E+ meaning we basically twin cockpitted for nothing.
 
Biggest issue i can see is taht due to this weighing in at 9 tons, we will have no armor, at all. Which means we fail the core design for the brief or only pass it on such a technicality that we still fail in the real world. We also hard the Amazon contact with the tech simplicity being at best E+ meaning we basically twin cockpitted for nothing.
That is a problem. I don't know what to take away though.
 
I was more focused on providing a cohesive product than any of the targets in particular. The coolant and heat sinks are to fix our heat management issues, the A.I. core integrates with too many systems to ignore so I included seismic sensors and radar systems to increase awareness which can be passed to friendly mechs thanks to the network targeting computer....wait why isn't that there? Let me fix that and done!

Anyway the air lock and sprinklers were added to help protect the pilots and the power cell bank was included to negate the power control loss. The EPM was included to provide protection for the systems. This mech should be able to serve as a good defender by being able to detect opposition, share it with allies, and be able to respond appropriately. The increase in Skeletal Agility also greatly helps.
[-0.66] Tech Simplicity, [-0.33] Tech Simplicity
[+1] Heat Management, [+0.33] Heat Management, [+0.33] Heat Management, [-0.33] Heat Management
[+0.33] Power Control, [-0.33] Power Control
[+0.33] Weapons Control, [+0.33] Weapons Control roll.
[+0.33] Component Protection
[+0.33] Pilot Protection, [+0.66] Pilot Protection.
[+0.33] Rate of Fire,
[+0.33] Skeletal Agility, [+0.33] Skeletal Agility
[+0.33] Skeletal Stability, [+0.33] Skeletal Stability,

That is quite the list of stat changes. It's at the cost of limiting our armour to just 5.5 tons which is the bare minimum to be considered an armoured vehicle, tanking our tech simplicity which is already bad (while I doubt the amazon contract will be an option, this means we really won't get it), and stuffing the unit full of components to mean there is more volume used for the armour to cover.

This also continues to move away from a cheap, simple combat vehicle into more of a kitchen sink EWAR unit. For a different market that would be fine. For what we are trying to do? I feel it is counter productive.

Heat will probably help us with the Sahel contract, and the pilot protection does help with our goals but the loss of 4 tons of armour is going to have a huge impact. We have a huge direct fire main gun. If it can fire the enemy can return fire. This isn't agile enough to ninja dodge bullets. It's going to need armour to not die.

Instead of gilding the lily, can we please try to double down on what our sales goal is? We were not asked for a scout mech. We were not asked for an advanced showpiece EWAR mech. We need to be able to take on a same sized tank in a fight. If you don't believe me go back and check the threadmarks. It's pretty early on.

While Pentagon Wars was a vast exaggeration written by someone with an ax to grind scenes from it are coming to mind.
 
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