- Pronouns
- Male
[X] Plan The Bankruptcy of Statesmanship
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Peace in Our Time! - A TRO Inspired Franco-British Union Quest
- Thread starter Fission Battery
- Start date
- Alt. History
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan The Bankruptcy of Statesmanship
Vote closed
Well guys I hope we survive and not get coup here yes decolonization is happening but maybe just maybe we can Keep the Franco-British union together to the modern age
MaironHWH
Fruity Little Know It All (Derogatory)
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Labour Party Conference 1957 - Brighton
Aneurin Bevan Resignation Speech (1951) said:
Nye Bevan (1943) said:
I wonder, where would Bevan tell us the power has gone to now?
The military junta?
MaironHWH
Fruity Little Know It All (Derogatory)
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't actually think the military will be involved in the coup attempt, if one even comes (it's going to be tight). It's going to be the Algerian Gendarmes pulling a 23F and trying to force a controlled government, but I don't think they have the institutional backing for it.
America is 100% on board with Labour after Argentina, the military is getting the big bucks, the Europeans are/will be hopeful of normalisation with us, the conditions aren't there for foreign backing of a coup.
Now, my only fear is they do it while the Queens out in the Commonwealth, because if that happens there's a potential limbo-coup with two separate claimants to be HMG. Elizabeth has only presided over Labour governments though so I can't imagine she'd be a big enough hater, even ignoring her personal history which makes her Labour favoured, to ever back a French Reactionary Coup.
Honestly, if the Gendarmes try and pull a 23F it could even be good for Bevan. It puts him in the perfect situation to exploit his own personal charisma and spark in a moment the whole world is watching. It would also likely help the Tories, as they would never consent to a French coup and will probably also benefit from opposing it in the moment. The actual risk to us isn't a coup so to speak, but that the Gendarmes start a riot and blow up the Paris talks. If that happens it will be a Problem for Algeria-London relations, even ignoring how it looks internationally.
The Royal Army will not do a coup unless they have the backing of, or believe they can get, the monarch of the United Kingdom. If it was the last king, they might take that bet. I don't think they would for Lizzy. I actually want to make a whole info post about Elizabeth II's early period because it's Very different from her later legacy, she was nicknamed the "Fairytale Queen", almost a symbol of Hope and Progress washing out the trauma from the Second World War, which the impact of on the British psyche absolutely cannot be overstated.
I am honestly worried about decolonization, because they have like 2 most likely options: Civil wars or military strongmen.
They just don't have enough infrastructure, literacy rate and democratic ideals to rule over lands as big as Europe. Morocco and Tunis are fine because they have a monarchy for hundred of years already.
If I as a modern Indonesian that will be voting for my president in 3 days is confused, I worry for these Africans.
They just don't have enough infrastructure, literacy rate and democratic ideals to rule over lands as big as Europe. Morocco and Tunis are fine because they have a monarchy for hundred of years already.
If I as a modern Indonesian that will be voting for my president in 3 days is confused, I worry for these Africans.
- Location
- Armchair somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Continued colonial occupation would just prolong the situation.
Actually, I am thinking of an international mandate led by London-Washington-Moscow(cause screw this timeline's Japan) to foot the bill in fixing any problems the colony have and then have free and fair elections in a decade or so. Democracy should not be rushed or even expected in a decentralized region like the Congo.
If you're worried about democracy in post colonial states, then I'd have to say that the the best thing to do to help is to not assassinate their leaders, fund insurgents to destabilize regions with a decade long civil war, force the country to take loans to put them into even greater debt, or launch a coup to establish a military dictatorship. If you don't do that, well the states will probably find their footing just fine.
African states didn't fail. They were murdered.
Last edited:
nachtingale
20. On that "honk, mimimi" type beat everyday.
- Location
- Malaysia
- Pronouns
- He/They
From the book, White Malice: The CIA and the Neocolonisation of Africa.
White Malice: The CIA and the Neocolonisation of Africa said:"The conference (referring to the All-African Peoples' Conference of 1958) ended on a note of euphoria. 'To young Africans like myself at the time', said Bereket Habte Selassie, a representative of the Ethiopian National Patriotic Association, 'it was a moment at once defining and awe-inspiring'. Fanon was also elated. He was convinced that almost sixty million Africans would be free 'by 1960'.
'The African Revolution', observed Nkrumah with solemn satisfaction, 'had started in earnest'."
[Next Page]
True, a lot of post-colonial nations experienced a lot of those things and the cold war actively made things worse. But I think it's a bit idealistic to say "If you don't do that, well the states will probably find their footing just fine". I am a bit pessimistic because I cannot see anything good from our colonial borders.
Racism, religion and geography don't go away with the colonizers after all.
But if it is really as simple as you said, I will happily take it. Finally a simple solution to a big problem and we don't have to write a paragraph to do it.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
- Location
- SEA
As Caesar Newsom said before crossing the Colorado, "Alea iacta est."
LuxemburgLover69
There are more things between Heaven and Earth...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wonder how much decolonization will affect how the Soviets and Japanese approach funding resistant movements. I suppose the immediate answer would be soft power tactics.
1957 - Colonial Policy
===
1957 - Colonial Policy
===
In the final realm of government policy there was the chain around the Franco-British Union's neck. The inglorious empires which strove across an entire continent and once ruled a quarter of the globe, and then some. It was the vile black heart of the FBU, a monument to brutality, thuggery, and naked exploitation of the common worker and peasant in the name of foreign profits. Its vast borders patrolled by hundreds of thousands of soldiers and thrice that many police officers, occupying armies that existed to keep colonial subjects down. The resources and labour of oppressed people funneled into the gullets of the British and French ruling class to ensure ever higher rates of profit.
The empire was the pride of Britain and France, taught in schools as a progressive and civilizing force that provided valuable contributions to human history, dignity, and progress. Those lessons had been toned down and muted under Attlee. Indeed only the real sickos of the Monday Club made it their personal mission to maintain its current borders, if not expand them. Darlanists themselves wished Franco-British dominance ensured for decades to come, even if compromises had to be made with wayward colonies. Schemes of some integrated community or union in which African colonies remained integral parts of the empire were thrown, attempting to make exploitation sound consensual and democratic. The Commonwealth and Francosphere would reign forever more if they had their way.
There would be no more of that however, not under Bevan. The blood stained monstrosity under London's command would shudder and groan in protest, knowing that its final days were upon it. The prime minister made it clear on no uncertain terms that come hell or high water the empire will end, so long as he drew breath while in office. There would be no more stalling, delays, can kicking, or word games. The process would begin immediately with genuine fervour. What the end goal looked like though was still being decided.
African leaders from the colonies flocked to London, hopeful to receive warm receptions and ensure policy was not yet again dictated to them by yet another government. A few resistance groups had even sent feelers out to the government to see if ceasefires were possible. There was also hope that there'd be serious reforms in the administration of the overseas territories. London had played silly games swapping them back and forth between ministries in half hearted attempts to maintain the empire under the guise of reforms.
===
Status of Colonies
Morocco, Tunisia, and Sudan were already set to become independent in 1957, after the election. Attlee had kicked the can down the road, but the buck would stop at Bevan. There was no delaying that from happening. They very much want to go their own way once independent. The promises of more Commonwealth support are tough sells. Algiers demands that London maintains military bases in Morocco and Tunisia, even after independence.
Yemeni insurgents have requested the FBU stop sending arms to Saudi Arabia. They have little hope that Bevan will deliver anything resembling a fair peace in the region, given its strategic importance to London. The Yemeni emirates and compradors that are part of the Protectorate of Arab Emirates have demanded London ignore any pleas by insurgent groups. The leadership of the PAE as a whole have issued a statement declaring their support for continued political and economic closeness with the FBU. They want the oil and money to keep flowing in mutually beneficial relations.
The Rhodesia-Nyasaland Federation did not like Bevan's calls to end apartheid, not one bit. Hostility within the white settler population has spiked greatly, already betrayed by the FBU's new Labour government. Its counter proposal is that voting should be separated houses, based on provinces and territories of the federation, and voting based on land ownership, at least in Southern Rhodesia. Given nearly all land in Southern Rhodesia was owned by white settlers, it'd guarantee them a controlling voice in any government. In Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland land was owned by mostly foreign corporations and African compradors, who have a vested interest in maintaining their privileged posting in the colony.
White Kenyans in the East African Federation have joined their southern cousins in railing against the new Labour government. They demand the FBU military maintain high pressure on the Mau Mau. In practice that means that Nairobi hopes that London continues ignoring any war crimes the military committed against its own subjects. They're also fearful that independence will mean a loss of their control over the colony, given they make up an even smaller minority in Kenya than white settlers do in Rhodesia. The minor amount of European refugees they received did little to tip the demographics in their favour.
West African Territories has proven to be the rising star in calls for independence. Ghanaian, Senegal, and Mali movements have been coordinating over the last few years in an attempt to present a united front to London. French African compradors hope to maintain close relations with the FBU, mostly for their benefit, while Ghanians and other African leaders from British Africa aren't opposed to remaining in the Commonwealth. Bevan's outspoken condemnation against apartheid has not gone unnoticed. The exact shape that the colony will take post independence is up in the air, but Pan-Africanists are hopeful that it will remain partially intact.
The Nigerian Federation hopes that the FBU will continue assisting it in putting down the UPC in Cameroon. The compradors that will run the post colonial nation are intrigued by rumors of Commonwealth reforming coming out of Britain. It too is expecting independence within the next few years, especially with Bevan's promise to hasten the process.
Azawad Overseas Territories were upset by the sale of land to Spain, namely in that it limited the travel and trade of their populations. Local elites friendly to the FBU hoped for a continuation of good relations, especially since they feared they'd need London's support to maintain their power in a post colonial world. Chad was in a similar situation, fearful that radicals from Egypt would upset their privileged positions within the system. As the last remaining piece of French Equatorial Africa, it maintained a high number of French trained bureaucrats.
The Central Africa Federation remains plagued with corruption and revolutionary sentiment. Its status as a joint economic zone left it open to investment and exploitation to non-FBU countries. It was considered by some observers as an ill portent of what was to come next for Africa. Lumumba and the Congolese National Movement have taken center stage as the leading voice and body campaigning for independence from the FBU. French African compradors in Gabon and Ubangi-Shari have bristled against the MNC's calls for a parliamentary republic and cutting all economic and political ties with the FBU.
Unrest remains high in Madagascar, even after crushing the uprising in the previous decade. The death of tens of thousands did a number to the movement, depriving it of manpower, but doing nothing to solve the shimmering hostility to continued Franco-British rule. It was overlooked in most colonial rearrangement schemes.
The Federation of the West Indies was technically independent, however its government had less power than the parliaments of Canada and Australia did. The governor general remained a commanding figure in the country, working closely with European landowners and Black businessmen to sideline the majority of the population from actually affecting policy. It remained a source of tropical goods for the FBU and ECCU, especially bananas, rubber, sugar, and coffee. There was some hope by organizers across the West Indies that the power of the governor general might be reigned in by London.
===
There are pressing issues that must be dealt with in addition to planks. These are not write-ins. They must be included in the plan, but do not count towards the word limit.
===
Sudan
Before the country's independence, military advisors proposed that London intervene to change the current prime minister of the protectorate. They suggested that Ismail al-Azhari be sidelined in favour of Ibrahim Abboud, a high ranking officer in the Sudan Defense Force. Abboud was trained by British officers and served in East Africa and North Africa during WW2, giving him a close relation to the FBU military. It was believed he'd be more amenable to maintaining London's interests in the region. The military feared that Al-Azhari would be potentially too friendly to Egypt, Japan, and the Soviet Union.
[ ][SUD] No, absolutely not! There will be no funny business at the eleventh hour!
===
Ceasefires
In regions in active conflict with the FBU and their colonial garrisons, several negotiators have emerged from the woodwork in the hopes of reaching a ceasefire with London. They are apprehensive of the chances of Bevan's government actually agreeing to any, given the FBU's general anti-partisan conduct so far. The Algerians in particular are the least hopeful, having had to work through several proxies to get an negotiator to London. They do however hope that if a ceasefire is reached that they'd be allowed to run in post independent elections.
The difficulty is of course any ceasefire will anger local settlers and/or compradors that have fought against the insurgents. Which may not be an issue for Bevan, if Labour didn't mind potentially burning bridges with pro-FBU collaborators and colonial civil servants. The UPC from Cameroon, Nigeria Federation, the Mau Mau from Kenya, East African Federation, and FLN from Algeria. If ceasefires are accepted negotiations regarding the releasing of prisoners and other things will follow suit.
There's a wrinkle that the "Mau Mau" are not in fact a unified body like the other groups. It was a British term to refer to a collection of anti-colonial organizations, including the Land and Freedom Army. The LFA were whom the military had been fighting against for much of the 50s, and the one that fled into Ethiopia to continue their attacks into East Africa. Made up of rural youths and militant nationalists, the group is a primarily Kikuyu organization under the command of Dedan Kimathi. Initially unorganized as a coherent body, the continued fighting and relocation to Ethiopia continues to radicalize the group. If they gained power any future government will be closely aligned with either the Soviets or Japanese.
Alongside them were the 'Athomi,' or learned Kikuyu, that made up the majority of African civil servants in the colony. They were urban and educated collaborators that nonetheless favoured independence, albeit with close ties to the FBU. Many of their leaders had been arrested at the start of the uprising, including Jomo Kenyatta. They are hopeful that their release can be negotiated as part of Bevan's decolonization promises. It wouldn't bring an end to the fighting in the highlands and hinterlands though, since the athomi are opposed to any ceasefire with the LFA. The latter are viewed as an existential threat to any future government. Continuing anti-'Mau Mau' operations would appease the future politicians of an independent Kenya or East Africa. Given their education and position in the colony they'd likely have power in any government.
[ ][UPC] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
[ ][UPC] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
[ ][LFA] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
[ ][LFA] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
[ ][LFA] Refuse ceasefire, but still scale back the scope of anti-insurgent operations
[ ][ATH] Agree to release their leaders from jail, include them on decolonization decisions
[ ][FLN] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
[ ][FLN] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
[ ][FLN] Bevan's arm is twisted to refuse ceasefire to appease Algiers. The stress will weigh on him.
You must pick one option for each group.
===
There's no limit on planks per plan. There's a 250 word limit for plans.
===
Please vote by plan. There is a moratorium.
===
1957 - Colonial Policy
===
In the final realm of government policy there was the chain around the Franco-British Union's neck. The inglorious empires which strove across an entire continent and once ruled a quarter of the globe, and then some. It was the vile black heart of the FBU, a monument to brutality, thuggery, and naked exploitation of the common worker and peasant in the name of foreign profits. Its vast borders patrolled by hundreds of thousands of soldiers and thrice that many police officers, occupying armies that existed to keep colonial subjects down. The resources and labour of oppressed people funneled into the gullets of the British and French ruling class to ensure ever higher rates of profit.
The empire was the pride of Britain and France, taught in schools as a progressive and civilizing force that provided valuable contributions to human history, dignity, and progress. Those lessons had been toned down and muted under Attlee. Indeed only the real sickos of the Monday Club made it their personal mission to maintain its current borders, if not expand them. Darlanists themselves wished Franco-British dominance ensured for decades to come, even if compromises had to be made with wayward colonies. Schemes of some integrated community or union in which African colonies remained integral parts of the empire were thrown, attempting to make exploitation sound consensual and democratic. The Commonwealth and Francosphere would reign forever more if they had their way.
There would be no more of that however, not under Bevan. The blood stained monstrosity under London's command would shudder and groan in protest, knowing that its final days were upon it. The prime minister made it clear on no uncertain terms that come hell or high water the empire will end, so long as he drew breath while in office. There would be no more stalling, delays, can kicking, or word games. The process would begin immediately with genuine fervour. What the end goal looked like though was still being decided.
African leaders from the colonies flocked to London, hopeful to receive warm receptions and ensure policy was not yet again dictated to them by yet another government. A few resistance groups had even sent feelers out to the government to see if ceasefires were possible. There was also hope that there'd be serious reforms in the administration of the overseas territories. London had played silly games swapping them back and forth between ministries in half hearted attempts to maintain the empire under the guise of reforms.
===
Status of Colonies
Morocco, Tunisia, and Sudan were already set to become independent in 1957, after the election. Attlee had kicked the can down the road, but the buck would stop at Bevan. There was no delaying that from happening. They very much want to go their own way once independent. The promises of more Commonwealth support are tough sells. Algiers demands that London maintains military bases in Morocco and Tunisia, even after independence.
Yemeni insurgents have requested the FBU stop sending arms to Saudi Arabia. They have little hope that Bevan will deliver anything resembling a fair peace in the region, given its strategic importance to London. The Yemeni emirates and compradors that are part of the Protectorate of Arab Emirates have demanded London ignore any pleas by insurgent groups. The leadership of the PAE as a whole have issued a statement declaring their support for continued political and economic closeness with the FBU. They want the oil and money to keep flowing in mutually beneficial relations.
The Rhodesia-Nyasaland Federation did not like Bevan's calls to end apartheid, not one bit. Hostility within the white settler population has spiked greatly, already betrayed by the FBU's new Labour government. Its counter proposal is that voting should be separated houses, based on provinces and territories of the federation, and voting based on land ownership, at least in Southern Rhodesia. Given nearly all land in Southern Rhodesia was owned by white settlers, it'd guarantee them a controlling voice in any government. In Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland land was owned by mostly foreign corporations and African compradors, who have a vested interest in maintaining their privileged posting in the colony.
White Kenyans in the East African Federation have joined their southern cousins in railing against the new Labour government. They demand the FBU military maintain high pressure on the Mau Mau. In practice that means that Nairobi hopes that London continues ignoring any war crimes the military committed against its own subjects. They're also fearful that independence will mean a loss of their control over the colony, given they make up an even smaller minority in Kenya than white settlers do in Rhodesia. The minor amount of European refugees they received did little to tip the demographics in their favour.
West African Territories has proven to be the rising star in calls for independence. Ghanaian, Senegal, and Mali movements have been coordinating over the last few years in an attempt to present a united front to London. French African compradors hope to maintain close relations with the FBU, mostly for their benefit, while Ghanians and other African leaders from British Africa aren't opposed to remaining in the Commonwealth. Bevan's outspoken condemnation against apartheid has not gone unnoticed. The exact shape that the colony will take post independence is up in the air, but Pan-Africanists are hopeful that it will remain partially intact.
The Nigerian Federation hopes that the FBU will continue assisting it in putting down the UPC in Cameroon. The compradors that will run the post colonial nation are intrigued by rumors of Commonwealth reforming coming out of Britain. It too is expecting independence within the next few years, especially with Bevan's promise to hasten the process.
Azawad Overseas Territories were upset by the sale of land to Spain, namely in that it limited the travel and trade of their populations. Local elites friendly to the FBU hoped for a continuation of good relations, especially since they feared they'd need London's support to maintain their power in a post colonial world. Chad was in a similar situation, fearful that radicals from Egypt would upset their privileged positions within the system. As the last remaining piece of French Equatorial Africa, it maintained a high number of French trained bureaucrats.
The Central Africa Federation remains plagued with corruption and revolutionary sentiment. Its status as a joint economic zone left it open to investment and exploitation to non-FBU countries. It was considered by some observers as an ill portent of what was to come next for Africa. Lumumba and the Congolese National Movement have taken center stage as the leading voice and body campaigning for independence from the FBU. French African compradors in Gabon and Ubangi-Shari have bristled against the MNC's calls for a parliamentary republic and cutting all economic and political ties with the FBU.
Unrest remains high in Madagascar, even after crushing the uprising in the previous decade. The death of tens of thousands did a number to the movement, depriving it of manpower, but doing nothing to solve the shimmering hostility to continued Franco-British rule. It was overlooked in most colonial rearrangement schemes.
The Federation of the West Indies was technically independent, however its government had less power than the parliaments of Canada and Australia did. The governor general remained a commanding figure in the country, working closely with European landowners and Black businessmen to sideline the majority of the population from actually affecting policy. It remained a source of tropical goods for the FBU and ECCU, especially bananas, rubber, sugar, and coffee. There was some hope by organizers across the West Indies that the power of the governor general might be reigned in by London.
===
There are pressing issues that must be dealt with in addition to planks. These are not write-ins. They must be included in the plan, but do not count towards the word limit.
===
Sudan
Before the country's independence, military advisors proposed that London intervene to change the current prime minister of the protectorate. They suggested that Ismail al-Azhari be sidelined in favour of Ibrahim Abboud, a high ranking officer in the Sudan Defense Force. Abboud was trained by British officers and served in East Africa and North Africa during WW2, giving him a close relation to the FBU military. It was believed he'd be more amenable to maintaining London's interests in the region. The military feared that Al-Azhari would be potentially too friendly to Egypt, Japan, and the Soviet Union.
[ ][SUD] No, absolutely not! There will be no funny business at the eleventh hour!
===
Ceasefires
In regions in active conflict with the FBU and their colonial garrisons, several negotiators have emerged from the woodwork in the hopes of reaching a ceasefire with London. They are apprehensive of the chances of Bevan's government actually agreeing to any, given the FBU's general anti-partisan conduct so far. The Algerians in particular are the least hopeful, having had to work through several proxies to get an negotiator to London. They do however hope that if a ceasefire is reached that they'd be allowed to run in post independent elections.
The difficulty is of course any ceasefire will anger local settlers and/or compradors that have fought against the insurgents. Which may not be an issue for Bevan, if Labour didn't mind potentially burning bridges with pro-FBU collaborators and colonial civil servants. The UPC from Cameroon, Nigeria Federation, the Mau Mau from Kenya, East African Federation, and FLN from Algeria. If ceasefires are accepted negotiations regarding the releasing of prisoners and other things will follow suit.
There's a wrinkle that the "Mau Mau" are not in fact a unified body like the other groups. It was a British term to refer to a collection of anti-colonial organizations, including the Land and Freedom Army. The LFA were whom the military had been fighting against for much of the 50s, and the one that fled into Ethiopia to continue their attacks into East Africa. Made up of rural youths and militant nationalists, the group is a primarily Kikuyu organization under the command of Dedan Kimathi. Initially unorganized as a coherent body, the continued fighting and relocation to Ethiopia continues to radicalize the group. If they gained power any future government will be closely aligned with either the Soviets or Japanese.
Alongside them were the 'Athomi,' or learned Kikuyu, that made up the majority of African civil servants in the colony. They were urban and educated collaborators that nonetheless favoured independence, albeit with close ties to the FBU. Many of their leaders had been arrested at the start of the uprising, including Jomo Kenyatta. They are hopeful that their release can be negotiated as part of Bevan's decolonization promises. It wouldn't bring an end to the fighting in the highlands and hinterlands though, since the athomi are opposed to any ceasefire with the LFA. The latter are viewed as an existential threat to any future government. Continuing anti-'Mau Mau' operations would appease the future politicians of an independent Kenya or East Africa. Given their education and position in the colony they'd likely have power in any government.
[ ][UPC] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
[ ][UPC] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
[ ][LFA] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
[ ][LFA] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
[ ][LFA] Refuse ceasefire, but still scale back the scope of anti-insurgent operations
[ ][ATH] Agree to release their leaders from jail, include them on decolonization decisions
[ ][FLN] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
[ ][FLN] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
[ ][FLN] Bevan's arm is twisted to refuse ceasefire to appease Algiers. The stress will weigh on him.
You must pick one option for each group.
===
There's no limit on planks per plan. There's a 250 word limit for plans.
===
Please vote by plan. There is a moratorium.
===
Last edited:
LuxemburgLover69
There are more things between Heaven and Earth...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This really does feel as it's the most important vote in the quest so far. I see so many ways we could push groups too far, and lead to various revolts and civil wars. Even the idea that regions like Central Africa have a desire to cut ties with us economically could prove to be disastrous for our economy.
Honestly not sure what to do. I feel like there's a balancing act in some places like West Africa. But in others it seems the actions of decades prior are coming home to roost.
Honestly not sure what to do. I feel like there's a balancing act in some places like West Africa. But in others it seems the actions of decades prior are coming home to roost.
Regency
PFP by vanathema (previously yubishines)
- Location
- Morioh Town, Mt. Ebbot
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Bevanite Way it is!
[] Bevanite Decolonization
-[] Accede to full independence for FBU dominions, interdependence subjects, protectorates, colonies, & overseas territories as CAN allies. Leave it up to each of them whether they will be independent as realms of the Windsor crown or as republics.
-[] Demand democratization in all former FBU dominions, interdependence subjects, protectorates, colonies, & overseas territories as condition for independence.
-[] Accede to French Algiers' demand for military bases in Morocco, Tunis, & Sudan - but make it a joint CAN effort.
-[] Demand the end of apartheid for Rhodesia-Nyasaland as condition for independence.
-[] Accede to reduction of West Indies Governor-General power to be similar to a symbolic head-of-state.
-[][SUD] No, absolutely not! There will be no funny business at the eleventh hour!
-[][UPC] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
-[][MAU] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
-[][FLN] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
Also yes the above means independent Southern Algeria, but not Algerian Coast (yet, I want FLN to take that decision out of our hands)
On UPC: I want to prevent or at least tamp down the bloodshed from the splintering of Cameroon from Nigerian Fed. Disarmed it is.
On Mau-Mau: Same as above but for Kenya.
On FLN: We're still the FBU, can't let FLN be armed. That said, they can still operate armed in the newly independent (Southern) Algeria.
Edit: ...I was reminded that South Africa is now fully independent, & the issue has been handled in forpol anyways. Taking that part off then.
[] Bevanite Decolonization
-[] Accede to full independence for FBU dominions, interdependence subjects, protectorates, colonies, & overseas territories as CAN allies. Leave it up to each of them whether they will be independent as realms of the Windsor crown or as republics.
-[] Demand democratization in all former FBU dominions, interdependence subjects, protectorates, colonies, & overseas territories as condition for independence.
-[] Accede to French Algiers' demand for military bases in Morocco, Tunis, & Sudan - but make it a joint CAN effort.
-[] Demand the end of apartheid for Rhodesia-Nyasaland as condition for independence.
-[] Accede to reduction of West Indies Governor-General power to be similar to a symbolic head-of-state.
-[][SUD] No, absolutely not! There will be no funny business at the eleventh hour!
-[][UPC] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
-[][MAU] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
-[][FLN] Agree to ceasefire, request they disarm and reorganize if they wish to run candidates
Also yes the above means independent Southern Algeria, but not Algerian Coast (yet, I want FLN to take that decision out of our hands)
On UPC: I want to prevent or at least tamp down the bloodshed from the splintering of Cameroon from Nigerian Fed. Disarmed it is.
On Mau-Mau: Same as above but for Kenya.
On FLN: We're still the FBU, can't let FLN be armed. That said, they can still operate armed in the newly independent (Southern) Algeria.
Edit: ...I was reminded that South Africa is now fully independent, & the issue has been handled in forpol anyways. Taking that part off then.
Last edited:
[] This Is Just a Joke!
-[][SUD] No, absolutely not! There will be no funny business at the eleventh hour!
-[][UPC] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
-[][MAU] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
-[][FLN] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
-[] Just decolonize everything.
-[] Hold referendums in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Algeria, Corsica, and all our dominions to cut ties with London.
Will Bevan even accepts this? Based on what everybody here said about him, I think he would support this.
Edit: I would actually love to be the prime minister of The Republic of England in the 1960s now that I think about it.
-[][SUD] No, absolutely not! There will be no funny business at the eleventh hour!
-[][UPC] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
-[][MAU] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
-[][FLN] Agree to ceasefire, allow them to run in elections
-[] Just decolonize everything.
-[] Hold referendums in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Algeria, Corsica, and all our dominions to cut ties with London.
Will Bevan even accepts this? Based on what everybody here said about him, I think he would support this.
Edit: I would actually love to be the prime minister of The Republic of England in the 1960s now that I think about it.
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Yeah? And we should change that right?
Regency
PFP by vanathema (previously yubishines)
- Location
- Morioh Town, Mt. Ebbot
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I agree, already ceding to Ireland's full independence in my plan - but I'm also trying to prevent Bevan from getting couped so I'm delaying the explosive Northern Ireland & French Algeria issueYeah? And we should change that right?
My hopium is forFLN & IRA to eventually force FBU's hand
You are saying that like Northern Ireland is the last straw and not literally everything else lol
MaironHWH
Fruity Little Know It All (Derogatory)
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean its an idea completely outside the window, that would fail 95% of the time (NI already Had a referendum after the Irish War of Independance, and the stats only changed to a bare majority for United Ireland this year), and stands a real chance at Igniting the Troubles by proposing it to begin with, but its not the last straw.
Scottish and Wales are 10-12 years away from electing their first SNP and Plaid Cymru MPs, 30-40 years away from even proposing an Independance Commission, and OTL the Nationalist movements only Started when the Macmillan Decolonisation Program (+Suez Crisis) humiliated the nation so much it shattered the British Identity and removed the main reason for the United Kingdom (in Nationalist Eyes).
In 1979 OTL a devolution referendum was held in Scotland and Wales. In Wales, it lost outright, 79.74%. In Scotland, it won 51% of the vote but was overturned by a required turnout amendment a Labour rebel had snuck in. Right now these concepts haven't even been Expressed. They're not Real. Also;
Bevan On Wales said:
But Also said:
I talked about this on Discord with Nasser a bit, but Bevan was a sound reject of the idea of Nationalism for Nationalism sake. The only form of Nationalism he would go by, most specifically in what he saw in Yugoslavia, was a Social and Economic hybrid movement:
Wales and Scotland both do not have national movements existent already, meaning theres no Point, but also would and will be much easier to complete the total transformation of society, the social and economic revolution, as they currently are: parts of a strong unitary London Government able to roll out nationwide radical reforms.
So in conclusion, if we really want to start up the nationalist movements, ignite the Troubles a few decades early, make Labour a joke candidate in England, antagonise the currently friendly Queen (very committed to national unity), piss off the Army even more, and probably a whole host of consequences besides, yes we could do a set of independence referendums for the Nations which would all lose by massive margins I guess. Don't know on what ground we'd even consider it but we could!
If we really want to ignite the National Questions in the UK, we do it in a domestic turn and we do it through pre-firing Devolution. We absolutely don't do it in a Colonisation turn, and we don't even consider the concept of Independence until At Least the National Parties have entered Parliament (and even then, Labour is still a Unionist Party that had to be forced into the '79 Referendums, and it was a Labour MP that made the amendment that sunk Scotlands.). Honestly the Government'd probably just collapse before passing these Referenda bills anyway.
FBU Military: "Do go on, keep giving us ideas..."