Remove ads

Original Evangelion is coming to Netflix in 2019

Broken Base said:
Also I can't wait to see brand new hot takes about what a bitch Asuka is. Sure never got enough of those.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's also an irrefutable aspect of her character. Everyone in Evangelion has some kind of excuse for why they're a shitty person, but that does not mean they are not shitty people. Asuka in particular is someone who takes internal pain and externalizes it on others to avoid self-reflection and growth, one of what I would define as the three categories of person that exist in the series: the internalized suffering, the externalized suffering (which is the one that every human antagonist AND ASUKA possess, eventually followed by Shinji) and the Relatively Normal Well Adjusted Person Who Gets Crushed.

Like, seriously, the amount of apologism for her malicious bullying and casual caustic behavior is baffling to me. Just because someone has a sad story doesn't mean they should be exempt from being called a bad person. Stealing responsibility for a person's actions from them is narrow, foolish, and exceptionally harmful thinking especially to people who actually have to deal with 'Asukas' in the real world.

Tasrill said:
Sorry the best girl is a mom who is giving her all to protect her son not the millennial with a drinking problem. You may not like but that is what peak best girl looks like.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, Yui won her mother of the year award by a landslide when she brought her toddler son to watch her die in a flesh-bot monster, leaving him to be abandoned and abused by her mentally unstable baby daddy.

Oh, and then abandoning him on a dead planet to go fly into space. That's some tough love mothering we can all learn from.
 
Last edited:
Spartan Altego said:
It's also an irrefutable aspect of her character. Everyone in Evangelion has some kind of excuse for why they're a shitty person, but that does not mean they are not shitty people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Can we... slow down a sec? My point isn't that Asuka doesn't treat people like shit, is incredibly horrible at communicating with others, make wrong assumptions all the time, is incredibly mentally unstable and makes terrible choices, her coping mechanisms for dealing with her issues are absolutely horrible, etc. And in sum she needs a therapist incredibly badly.

The people I'm talking about are the ones that actively demonize her without actually bothering to look at her contextually as a character and maybe understand remotely why she is the way she is and analyze her with that lens, while simultaneously typically hyping up characters like Shinji as though he doesn't have a suitcase of issues all his own.
 
Spartan Altego said:
Yeah, Yui won her mother of the year award by a landslide when she brought her toddler son to watch her die in a flesh-bot monster, leaving him to be abandoned and abused by her mentally unstable baby daddy.

Oh, and then abandoning him on a dead planet to go fly into space. That's some tough love mothering we can all learn from.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The great point of Shinji's arc in NGE--"Shinji, every relationship with every person you meet is filtered through your terrible relationships with your awful, abusive, manipulative parents."
 
Last edited:
Broken Base said:
Can we... slow down a sec? My point isn't that Asuka doesn't treat people like shit, is incredibly horrible at communicating with others, make wrong assumptions all the time, is incredibly mentally unstable and makes terrible choices, her coping mechanisms for dealing with her issues are absolutely horrible, etc. And in sum she needs a therapist incredibly badly.

The people I'm talking about are the ones that actively demonize her without actually bothering to look at her contextually as a character and maybe understand remotely why she is the way she is and analyze her with that lens, while simultaneously typically hyping up characters like Shinji as though he doesn't have a suitcase of issues all his own.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wait. People hype up Shinji now? When did this become a thing? Because last I checked (back when Rebuild 3 was shat out) everyone hated him more than ever and refused to give him the same consideration you'd like to see Asuka given.

Anyway, it'd be nice if everyone actually did apply some empathy to understanding traumatized people if only to see how these lessons are applicable to reality. I agree. But even if they don't, they're not going to necessarily be wrong for demonizing her: people like Asuka are nightmarishly common in our reality and many of them don't have nearly as compelling an excuse for their behavior as she does. The fact that any other layers of depth to her basically don't exist until the reveal also means that about 80% of Asuka content in the series is just her being an asshole.

This is one reason I consider Rebuild Asuka (to 2.0) somewhat superior, because she possesses actual human attributes that exist outside of Tsundere Deconstructionism (tm) like...a real person who isn't a total shitbag would. Which makes her more sympathetic and therefore dodged the problem of original series Asuka who is hilariously one-note.
 
Space Oddity said:
The great point of Shinji's arc in NGE--"Shinji, every relationship with every person you meet is filtered through your terrible relationships with your awful, abusive, manipulative parents."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And also the fact that all of Shinji's relationships with other people that we see is directly related to what Gendo and Yui Ikari did. Rei Ayanami needs no explanation. Asuka is the result of the Evangelion project causing an incident with her mother.. Misato is the victim of the Second Impact. For Ritsuko reason is Gendo, her Mother, Evangelion, and so on. All these people did not just go through the usual injuries in life, all their injuries are directly related to the insane conspiracy that occurs in the background.

(Yes, I exclude the school population and some other characters, because I'm not quite sure how they fit into the big plan.)
Broken Base said:
Can we... slow down a sec? My point isn't that Asuka doesn't treat people like shit, is incredibly horrible at communicating with others, make wrong assumptions all the time, is incredibly mentally unstable and makes terrible choices, her coping mechanisms for dealing with her issues are absolutely horrible, etc. And in sum she needs a therapist incredibly badly.

The people I'm talking about are the ones that actively demonize her without actually bothering to look at her contextually as a character and maybe understand remotely why she is the way she is and analyze her with that lens, while simultaneously typically hyping up characters like Shinji as though he doesn't have a suitcase of issues all his own.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
With all due respect, I think that you still may not like characters even if you understand why they are such bad people. Understanding often gives rise to sympathy, but not always. And personally, I have no sympathy for her, a terrible person like me, I don't quite empathize with Asuka.

Oh yeah, you can laugh at me if I get something wrong. I watched the Evangelion five years ago and I didn't really like it then. I write here because I like the fandom of this anime for a bit.
 
Last edited:
Shinji is one of like maybe 4 male lead characters on screen ever I can actually sympathize with.

Doesn't mean I like him. I really don't.

You can sympathize with a person and not like them.

I can understand Asuka, kinda. I can sympathize much more deeply with Shinji. I rather like her better tho.

Both are beaten down to horrific despair, but at that low point, when others need them, one fights and one nihilist-s.
 
Spartan Altego said:
Wait. People hype up Shinji now? When did this become a thing? Because last I checked (back when Rebuild 3 was shat out) everyone hated him more than ever and refused to give him the same consideration you'd like to see Asuka given.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm honestly not sure what to tell you dude, if you haven't seen it you haven't seen it. But it's a not entirely uncommon position in the fandom- particularly in terms of reworking him to fit more traditional masculine roles so that he can be a badass, something that especially comes in a one-two punch with said Asuka demonization

Ivar said:
With all due respect, I think that you still may not like characters even if you understand why they are such bad people. Understanding often gives rise to sympathy, but not always. And personally, I have no sympathy for her, a terrible person like me, I don't quite empathize with Asuka.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'd like it if we could discuss things I said, or have clarified I was intending to say, admittedly. I didn't say you can't not like Asuka after analyzing or just overall looking at her character. My complaint is with people that didn't do that at all and just decide that she's a shrill terrible harpy without actually examining her character and figuring out why she is the way she is. I gave several reasons in the previous post why somebody might not like Asuka, even getting why. The important part is to get why.
 
Broken Base said:
I'd like it if we could discuss things I said, or have clarified I was intending to say, admittedly. I didn't say you can't not like Asuka after analyzing or just overall looking at her character. My complaint is with people that didn't do that at all and just decide that she's a shrill terrible harpy without actually examining her character and figuring out why she is the way she is. I gave several reasons in the previous post why somebody might not like Asuka, even getting why. The important part is to get why.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The reason why people do not like Asuka and do not want to analyze or sympathize with her can also be different. In many ways, this can be reduced to the first impression, by the time when the rationale enters the picture your opinion about the person has already been formed in many ways. And it is difficult to fundamentally change it, so many simply ignore the reasons why the character X is as he /she is and remains at his first impression and opinion.

I am sure that there are people who do not love Asuka simply because they learned through osmosis that other fans do not like her or she is not a good character and other fandom memes. I hope that these people are in the minority.

I don't think I know the Evangelion well enough to have a good discussion on this topic. I'll just say that my personal attitude to the character is not hate, but I just wouldn't want to be in the same room with Asuka Langley Soryu or working with her. Or chat with her. I have enough people like her (minus my mother died creating a huge robot) in life and I don't really care why they behave this way towards me. However, I understand why people can empathize or love a character.
 
Last edited:
Tasrill said:
Sorry the best girl is a mom who is giving her all to protect her son not the millennial with a drinking problem. You may not like but that is what peak best girl looks like.

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I was going to point our Misato's hardly a millenial, then I realised what year Eva was supposed to be set in.

Feeling old again. Is this what those old farts were complaining about ten years ago in 1997?
 
I always found the brief mention of Asuka graduating college at a very early age (EvaGeeks wiki says it's in Episode 10) to be interesting because she reminds me of a lot of my least favorite things about early college kids, including myself in some ways, though I like to think most of my flaws were in other areas. :V I can't help sympathizing with her somewhat--especially in light of her major trauma, of course, but also because, in my experience, talented young people with huge complexes about their abilities typically get that way because they were let down by adults in their lives who failed to teach respect for others and/or oneself on the basis of things other than talent. No longer being the best at whatever always got you positive attention can be an existential crisis if you're a kid whose entire identity is wrapped up in that, even if it's something mundane.

JayF said:
I was going to point our Misato's hardly a millenial, then I realised what year Eva was supposed to be set in.

Feeling old again. Is this what those old farts were complaining about ten years ago in 1997?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Breaking: New Evangelion dub to add cultural references appropriate to characters' in-universe ages: Shinji's SDAT is now a smartphone with the SoundCloud app installed, Kensuke talks about how he's recording video for IG likes, and the ending song is "XO Tour Llif3" by Lil Uzi Vert.

Uzi's subject matter in that song would actually be a pretty decent fit for Eva, plus he's already a weeb. :thonk:
 
Last edited:

But yeah, super exited all the blind reactions to the full, original anime.
 
Eldy said:
Breaking: New Evangelion dub to add cultural references appropriate to characters' in-universe ages: Shinji's SDAT is now a smartphone with the SoundCloud app installed, Kensuke talks about how he's recording video for IG likes, and the ending song is "XO Tour Llif3" by Lil Uzi Vert.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
 
Eldy said:
Breaking: New Evangelion dub to add cultural references appropriate to characters' in-universe ages: Shinji's SDAT is now a smartphone with the SoundCloud app installed, Kensuke talks about how he's recording video for IG likes, and the ending song is "XO Tour Llif3" by Lil Uzi Vert.

Uzi's subject matter in that song would actually be a pretty decent fit for Eva, plus he's already a weeb. :thonk:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To show Shinji's and Asuka's true gen Z qualities all the dancing in Both of You, Dance Like You Want to Win! is changed to Fortnight dances. This greatly helps increase the accuracy of the show to the modern day.
 
Last edited:
Something I find interesting is people always talk 'Rei' rather than 'Rei 2' and 'Rei 3,' who when you get down to it are pretty distinctive.
 
Q99 said:
Something I find interesting is people always talk 'Rei' rather than 'Rei 2' and 'Rei 3,' who when you get down to it are pretty distinctive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I've found that a pretty distinctive tell for people who haven't actually watched the series or only watched Rebuild.
 
Oh good. An entire new group of people can completely miss the point and complain that Shinji is a cowardly whining baby, despite him being a brave lad with a really shitty life.
 
Space Oddity said:
Watched Rebuild badly.

Because again, we're on Rei 2 and Rei 3 there as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh right, I forgot that another Rei exists in 3.0 Then again I actively try to forget 3.0 exists, too.

I don't think Rebuild has any confirmation that the Rei we first meet isn't in fact Rei 1, if only because Ritsuko's reduced focus means we don't get any glimpse into whether the same events with the elder Akagi unfolded.
 
Q99 said:
Something I find interesting is people always talk 'Rei' rather than 'Rei 2' and 'Rei 3,' who when you get down to it are pretty distinctive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Please explain, because I did watch the series and couldn't tell the differences - at least not beyond the new Rei at the end not having any of the character growth that the main Rei went through.

I don't even remember how and when the main Rei died.
 
SwiftRosenthal said:
Please explain, because I did watch the series and couldn't tell the differences - at least not beyond the new Rei at the end not having any of the character growth that the main Rei went through.

I don't even remember how and when the main Rei died.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Rei 1 dies in the backstory, when Ritsuko's mother kills her, as a younger child.
Rei 2 is the first Rei seen in the show, in episode 1. She kills herself trying to suicide-bomb an angel.
Rei 3 is the Rei that shows up and is explained as Rei miraculously surviving the bomb attempt.

I think you have to be pretty tuned in to Evangelion fandom for the Rei 2 vs. Rei 3 thing to seem extremely obvious. Basically, Rei 2 is really weird for most of the series, and then Rei 3 shows up and is weird in a somewhat different fashion for two episodes.
 
Q99 said:
Something I find interesting is people always talk 'Rei' rather than 'Rei 2' and 'Rei 3,' who when you get down to it are pretty distinctive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's a distinction to be made between them? It's mostly just a temporary character reset for Rei near the end of the show. It ends up being inconsequential for herself, and is really for the sake of making Shinji lose her as a human connection and reinforce how he has nobody to turn to for Episode 24 and EoE.
 
Last edited:
SwiftRosenthal said:
Please explain, because I did watch the series and couldn't tell the differences - at least not beyond the new Rei at the end not having any of the character growth that the main Rei went through.

I don't even remember how and when the main Rei died.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Delphisage said:
There's a distinction to be made between them? It's mostly just a temporary character reset for Rei near the end of the show. It ends up being inconsequential for herself, and is really for the sake of making Shinji lose her as a human connection and reinforce how he has nobody to turn to for Episode 24 and EoE.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


I mean, 'losing all character development and emotional growth and becoming mostly emotionless,' is a major thing.

Rei 2 was never that emotionless- she slapped Shinji early on, due to having the experience of Gendo rescuing her and such. Rei 3 lost her personal connections- she had the memories but it seemed like there wasn't the emotional content.

If Rei 2 had lived, Shinji would have someone to turn to. The fact he lost-a-friend-but-didn't is a notable step.
 
I get that part. And it's definitely just as important a part of Rei's arc as the rest of her development, and I'd never think of removing it. I'm just kinda iffy on the impact on her compared to the impact on Shinji, since at the end, she still ends up rejecting Gendo for the sake of Shinji even if this Rei never experienced what the previous one did, let alone piloted any of the Evas.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top