sargentorion
Hunter of bunnycats
- Location
- West Sussex, England
Sounds finea to me as long as France gets its own choice I am cool with it.
Only One Can Win The Eurasian War! Allies IC Thread
- Thread starter Gideon020
- Start date
- IC
Azecreth
Giant Monster All Out Attack
- Location
- United States of America
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd amend the end to have the peacekeepers remain until the new government has demonstrated an ability to maintain societal control, rather than just arriving in office. But other than that I can accept this proposal. We don't want France falling apart a minute after the peacekeepers leave.
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Well, I have us flooding the loyalists with resources and sending some troops to "guard" US "investments." We don't have a whole lot to work with as far as direct intervention goes.
That's plan B. We're working on an agreement. Just need to get a few things approved.
sargentorion
Hunter of bunnycats
- Location
- West Sussex, England
Lailoken please change you action so we do not send troops at all resorces and economic aid yeah but no troops please.
We never mentioned the colonies in the talks. Go ahead. We can say we're protecting them from Japan, maybe liberate them as a new nation that will owe us a favour.
sargentorion
Hunter of bunnycats
- Location
- West Sussex, England
No please don't any military action by us and shit hits the rotary cooling device
Look there's a chance Japan will try and force them into their sphere. Germany's concern was with mainland France. Our concern is keeping the peace.
sargentorion
Hunter of bunnycats
- Location
- West Sussex, England
Yes and if this situation is delicate with any thing to do with the military and France or its territory could we please just not poke the bear.
Azecreth
Giant Monster All Out Attack
- Location
- United States of America
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly it should be fine. We're the only ones who can power play in Southeast Asia, so they have no stake in the game. We secure the colonies, and then once a new French government is in place we can work out a deal with them.
If they planned this, and there is a massive possibility that they did considering their project Donar, cargo subs, and choreographed debut, they've been pouring actions into this for quite some time. More than that, Sergeantorion isn't wrong that the socialists make up a huge faction in France right now. Really, the most convincing reason to believe that they planned this is that it really is a good plan, so long as they can successfully use maskirovka and bluff to keep anybody outside from interfering. They failed to neuter our influence with their Olympic speech and the leadership unexpectedly escaping to our shores to openly request assistance instead of some distant colony, but we completely failed to capitalize on it. I'm not at all hopeful that we're going to be left with a France that is more of a friend to us than them.
Putin would be proud.
This is probably a better investment. Let them have their prize, but ensure that it is thoroughly poisoned.
Putin would be proud.
This is probably a better investment. Let them have their prize, but ensure that it is thoroughly poisoned.
What the heck do you think project Dorner is? It's named after Thor, only the alias which is best known for Dorner's Oak, which was a holy tree cut down by a monk from Britain. They didn't actually need those cargo subs for France, but they will need them when they knock down Tesla's lighting energy transmission tower and defense station because they planned this whole thing and Britain is the next target for their conquest of Europe.
You got played.
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Zeus and Hades, I'm not even going to finish reading the intervening posts. This is a trainwreck and it really should have been more obvious.
Let's see what we can salvage here. Something I'm seeing is that even under the agreement the government-in-exile of France is still technically the authority for everything except the contested French homeland, so perhaps we can work with that. If we can convince them to turn over or at least place under the care of the US their foreign empire we can still profit wonderfully from this. The best sell I can think of is to convince them that they're not going to win the upcoming elections in their homeland, likely due to German and socialist interference, and that their best chance of ever regaining their homeland is therefore to split off from it as a separate nation while they still have the authority to do so and a welcoming patron to cover for them. The French foreign empire becomes its own nation and we use our massive resource supply to build it up and win its population over. Nobody is going to go to be willing to war over it and by the time the new French government is secure enough to make a fuss we can hope to have won the hearts and minds of the local inhabitants through our generosity and play the exact same popular autonomy card which put that government in power in the first place.
I can divert my social action to this, though that will mean that it won't also be supporting Britain.
In support of this, covert actions to find evidence of whoever was behind the events in France while undermining any efforts to contest our move would be a big help. @Azecreth , I believe you mentioned shifting your covert action.
If anyone can spare a design action, it's time to break out the subs. They're mighty useful in a lot of ways, but in particular they neuter the German cargo subs. Cargo subs are never going to be particularly stealthy, and sub-vs-sub combat is inherently deniable, especially when the target government doesn't want to admit that their subs even exist for fear of pissing off the British by violating the one part of the Treaty of Versailles that they actually care about. We'd want to use VK reactors and steel hulls as well as our computer advantage to create the equivalent of modern, multi-purpose titanium-hulled nuclear submarines with excellent passive and reduced probability of interception sonar for the era. Leave some room in the design to put missiles in once we finish developing them. In the meantime the room can carry extra provisions and torpedoes for extended operations.
Another thing to research and start laying out is SOSUS and towed array sonar ships. You hunt subs with passive sonar and with our electronics advantage we can have passive sonar miles ahead of anybody else. We'll need these for the war with the Japanese anyway, but they'll also help keep the Germans and Draka from getting up to anything nefarious. The British might well be willing to cooperate on laying and managing SOSUS even if we don't share the core tech, especially if we reveal our knowledge of the new German subs. They're a naval power and absolutely paranoid about submarines.
Does anybody have any research actions they can divert? @Druby : we don't really need the Soviet acid weapons as much as these right now. @sargentorion : aircraft carriers are great, but between the virtually unlimited range of VK airplanes and the additional bases we can get from the French empire they're not as important as they first appear. Would you delay them for a turn in favor of improved submarine and ASW work? (Under the new agreement you're also going to need to change your military action). @SlugSLinger : cruiser's are nice, but we really do need subs and ASW more right now.
Also, @Druby and @SlugSLinger : you are both working on naval reactors. We already have reactors powerful enough to power heavy helicopters which should be sufficient for naval roles the moment. While it's always nice to improve, we really don't need two people spending actions on that in the same turn and it might even cause one of you to auto-fail.
Let's see what we can salvage here. Something I'm seeing is that even under the agreement the government-in-exile of France is still technically the authority for everything except the contested French homeland, so perhaps we can work with that. If we can convince them to turn over or at least place under the care of the US their foreign empire we can still profit wonderfully from this. The best sell I can think of is to convince them that they're not going to win the upcoming elections in their homeland, likely due to German and socialist interference, and that their best chance of ever regaining their homeland is therefore to split off from it as a separate nation while they still have the authority to do so and a welcoming patron to cover for them. The French foreign empire becomes its own nation and we use our massive resource supply to build it up and win its population over. Nobody is going to go to be willing to war over it and by the time the new French government is secure enough to make a fuss we can hope to have won the hearts and minds of the local inhabitants through our generosity and play the exact same popular autonomy card which put that government in power in the first place.
I can divert my social action to this, though that will mean that it won't also be supporting Britain.
In support of this, covert actions to find evidence of whoever was behind the events in France while undermining any efforts to contest our move would be a big help. @Azecreth , I believe you mentioned shifting your covert action.
If anyone can spare a design action, it's time to break out the subs. They're mighty useful in a lot of ways, but in particular they neuter the German cargo subs. Cargo subs are never going to be particularly stealthy, and sub-vs-sub combat is inherently deniable, especially when the target government doesn't want to admit that their subs even exist for fear of pissing off the British by violating the one part of the Treaty of Versailles that they actually care about. We'd want to use VK reactors and steel hulls as well as our computer advantage to create the equivalent of modern, multi-purpose titanium-hulled nuclear submarines with excellent passive and reduced probability of interception sonar for the era. Leave some room in the design to put missiles in once we finish developing them. In the meantime the room can carry extra provisions and torpedoes for extended operations.
Another thing to research and start laying out is SOSUS and towed array sonar ships. You hunt subs with passive sonar and with our electronics advantage we can have passive sonar miles ahead of anybody else. We'll need these for the war with the Japanese anyway, but they'll also help keep the Germans and Draka from getting up to anything nefarious. The British might well be willing to cooperate on laying and managing SOSUS even if we don't share the core tech, especially if we reveal our knowledge of the new German subs. They're a naval power and absolutely paranoid about submarines.
Does anybody have any research actions they can divert? @Druby : we don't really need the Soviet acid weapons as much as these right now. @sargentorion : aircraft carriers are great, but between the virtually unlimited range of VK airplanes and the additional bases we can get from the French empire they're not as important as they first appear. Would you delay them for a turn in favor of improved submarine and ASW work? (Under the new agreement you're also going to need to change your military action). @SlugSLinger : cruiser's are nice, but we really do need subs and ASW more right now.
Also, @Druby and @SlugSLinger : you are both working on naval reactors. We already have reactors powerful enough to power heavy helicopters which should be sufficient for naval roles the moment. While it's always nice to improve, we really don't need two people spending actions on that in the same turn and it might even cause one of you to auto-fail.
Well, crap. I probably should have looked at a map before this. @Gideon020 : Do the French even have and empire in this world? Presumably they started focusing on other colonies once the Draka started dominating Africa, right? What do they actually have? Do they even have Indochina at this point?
sargentorion
Hunter of bunnycats
- Location
- West Sussex, England
It's not the range I am worried about but cap for our fleet.
They've got Indochina, nothing else. Here's the most recent map:
Well, damn. Indochina is more of a liability than an asset. The Japanese are going to wreck it and take control of the areas around it and between it and us. Internally it's a mess and the last thing we need right now is a literal Vietnam. It would be a help in the battle for China, but there's really not that much chance that we're going to end up in control there.
This whole deal may just be totally unsalvageable.
Is anybody up for cancelling the deal? It's not perfidy to change our minds if everybody has time to adjust. We openly call the Axis's bluff about red lines by telling them that we are just going to put the French government right back in power and dare them to do anything about it. We don't actually have to do it, but they'll have to respond. If they fold they lose all credibility. If they actually back up their blatantly inflammatory rhetoric they'll find themselves surprise invading an empty France with a military they aren't even supposed to have and are only getting away with because nobody believes they'll actually use it. They'll be tied down in an expensive occupation of a nation in the midst of civil war with absolutely no casus belli. The entire rest of Europe will flip and panic to join a mutual defense pact with Britain and the US before justifiably demanding and forcing Germany to leave France.
Their doing anything about an invited intervention in France is such a fantastically bad idea for them that it's amazing that they even tried to threaten it, much less that anybody bought it. Now that it's happened let's take advantage of that in a clever bit of geopolitical judo. They'll be left punching air and making ridiculous claims about defending their enemies against a non-existent US invasion which will completely discredit any propaganda they try to use against us, or really anybody at all, in the future. For a team which appears to be trying to go the PR and Popular Democracy route that will be devastating and, best of all, they'll do it entirely to themselves.
We really need decent fighters for that more than anything, and VK fighters will have enough range to base from land. How much of a surface fleet are we even going to have when we can build a VK air force for strike, patrol, and logistics?
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Azecreth
Giant Monster All Out Attack
- Location
- United States of America
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's also French Polynesia, which could be pretty useful in a war against Japan or just protecting the CONUS in general.
As for Carriers, there is something to be said for having a reduced travel time and the like, since land based air does have some drawbacks beyond range
As for Carriers, there is something to be said for having a reduced travel time and the like, since land based air does have some drawbacks beyond range
It's nice, but keep in mind that in the original timeline the Japanese conquer all the way down to northern Australia. I'm not seeing much advantage to taking what few colonies they have, especially if we could instead actually turn their whole empire into a loyal ally by helping the Axis make complete fools of themselves in return for engineering this whole mess to begin with. Are you in?
There's also something to be said for having 1970s era nuclear submarines in the 1930s. I'm not opposed to aircraft carriers, but they do seem a lower priority due to the same changes which make submarines so much more effective.
Hopefully we won't need to chose one or the other. Does anybody else have research actions to spare or repurpose?