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On the Road to Elspar [Book 1] (Dryad Mercenary Schoolgirl Quest)

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[x] Allow Lucille to remain in command.
-[x] Maybe... Show her support to give her confidence? Like, this is not a wyvern again after all. And support her when she need it.

Maybe add something like, feed her a single, solvable problem at a time, rather than leaving her to try and figure everything out at once?

I'd suggest setting up watches for the assassin first.
 
Candesce said:
Maybe add something like, feed her a single, solvable problem at a time, rather than leaving her to try and figure everything out at once?

I'd suggest setting up watches for the assassin first.
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See, that's just Neianne leading and delegating. If we're feeding her one problem at a time, we're choosing which problems to feed her and giving her something to do to feel like she's not out of her depth.
 
Kinruush said:
See, that's just Neianne leading and delegating.
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In the sense that it's Neianne making many of the decisions, sure? Assuming that giving Lucille solvable problems doesn't result in her picking up speed and doing things and making decisions herself, which isn't an entirely safe assumption.

The big thing is, doing the Power Behind the Throne thing doesn't confuse the chain of command - even if Neianne is doing the leading, it's Lucille's orders everyone is following.

And it means we're not having to do as much to fight Neianne's stammer, at that.
 
Candesce said:
In the sense that it's Neianne making many of the decisions, sure? Assuming that giving Lucille solvable problems doesn't result in her picking up speed and doing things and making decisions herself, which isn't an entirely safe assumption.

The big thing is, doing the Power Behind the Throne thing doesn't confuse the chain of command - even if Neianne is doing the leading, it's Lucille's orders everyone is following.

And it means we're not having to do as much to fight Neianne's stammer, at that.
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It does confuse the chain of command. We aren't taking Lucille off to the side somewhere in the middle of this, we'd be trying to get her attention in the middle of a group of half-panicked girls. If we're consistently making decisions for the group, it will be noticed. It's not that helping her can't work, but if we want her to lead we can't be the one making most of the decisions. She would have to pick up speed and actually lead. That's a fine thing to shoot for, but it's no more perfect a solution than dealing with Neianne's shyness, and my point is just that if we're going to handle the decision-making at the beginning anyway, we may as well just lead.

Edit: Also, Lazy Minx made a good point:

Lazy Minx said:
Let's not force Sieglinde into a position she does not want.
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Except that Lucille also doesn't seem to want to be in this position, but everyone else has already forced it on her. She may be used to taking charge socially, but she gave no indication that she's happy about being in that position now.
 
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[X] Take charge by acting like you know what's happening and you have a plan
-[X] Lay out the facts: The instructors were drawn out late at night, likely to deal with something in a nearby town. There's the same brand on the dire wolf that there was on the wyvern, which is supposedly a Tenereian beastmaster's brand. Someone slit an apprentice's throat. This is clearly a deliberate, orchestrated attack on the academy. The beasts are intended to kill who they can, sow chaos where they can't, and attract our focus so that the perpetrators can kill us piecemeal in the confusion. This is what we're at the academy to learn how to fight against; we just
-[X] Make a plan: We need to keep a watch out for the attackers, preferably chosen from those whose weapons are ineffective against the dire wolves. Help the other apprentices who don't know what's happening. Then, move to a centralized, defensible location to wait for the instructors to return.
-[X] You don't know everyone's strengths and weaknesses, so ask questions freely and delegate when you can.
 
Kinruush said:
Except that Lucille also doesn't seem to want to be in this position, but everyone else has already forced it on her.
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Bad luck for her, that; the world isn't fair, and her family name guarantees that this will be far from the last time people look to her for leadership.

Unless she dies or gets so many cadets killed that no one would remember anything else.
 
So, as I see it, there's at least one major problem we can do something about - as it is, only Neianne and Elizabeth can actually stop a direwolf for any amount of time. The lighter weapons are just bouncing off their hides and Stephanie just disintegrated her own blades.

[X] "Do you think we can raid the armory?"
 
HidCyan said:
So, as I see it, there's at least one major problem we can do something about - as it is, only Neianne and Elizabeth can actually stop a direwolf for any amount of time. The lighter weapons are just bouncing off their hides and Stephanie just disintegrated her own blades.

[X] "Do you think we can raid the armory?"
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That's a good point. @Kei Can we get into the armory? Would it be locked (and warded from spells, I guess)? How far is it to the armory from where we are?
 
Oh for...

Guys? Remember our whole discussion here? It's OOC. Talking about taking leadership is nice and all but IC? I don't see it flying at all.

Of course the armory is an option. But maybe whoever is here did the smart thing and sabotaged it first? Or put guards there for students that would go for weapons? Maybe they also HAVE people watching for those that may escapes the direwolves.

The leadership shop is thinking of what is possible and the risks, picking a course of action and committing to it. And accepting that you may be wrong but still assuring the others following you you're picking the best course of action possible.

Sieglinde see herself unfit for that job and it's not the time to start arguing with her about it. VERY FEW here would trust Elizabeth about this. The girls here DO look up to Lucille. So what we can do here is support her and whatever course of action she imagine best.
 
Megaolix said:
Guys? Remember our whole discussion here? It's OOC. Talking about taking leadership is nice and all but IC? I don't see it flying at all.
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Except it isn't, really, out of character. It pushes the boundaries of what Neianne is comfortable with, yes, but it's not completely out of character. It doesn't come naturally to her, and even with her desire to change, it wouldn't be easy, but it's not impossible for her to do. This is like the wyvern incident again. Nobody knew what to do, but Neianne was willing to work through her fear to make sure that everyone came out of it alive.
 
Kinruush said:
Except it isn't, really, out of character. It pushes the boundaries of what Neianne is comfortable with, yes, but it's not completely out of character. It doesn't come naturally to her, and even with her desire to change, it wouldn't be easy, but it's not impossible for her to do. This is like the wyvern incident again. Nobody knew what to do, but Neianne was willing to work through her fear to make sure that everyone came out of it alive.
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Yeah, when she was acting by herself. Taking command of many she doesn't even know herself is a different beast entirely. At no point we saw her express the desire to do such either in that last update.

And before you even list ideas on what to do, do YOU know the layout of the place? IC, we probably know. OOC, like hell. The reason we're voting on leadership and not on actual plans is because we DON'T have the information for such.

Edit: If you want an alternative to my vote... Well, I cannot see Neianne taking on the leadership role. But what about acting like a second to support Lucille? If it seems doable anyway.
 
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Megaolix said:
Yeah, when she was acting by herself. Taking command of many she doesn't even know herself is a different beast entirely. At no point we saw her express the desire to do such either in that last update.

And before you even list ideas on what to do, do YOU know the layout of the place? IC, we probably know. OOC, like hell. The reason we're voting on leadership and not on actual plans is because we DON'T have the information for such.
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Nobody expressed a desire to take command of that many people. None of them. That's my point. What Neianne does have a desire to do, and what she has done before, is work through her fear to do what's needed. It's not like I expect her to be barking commands or something. She'd be providing direction and an example

And the ideas that I have listed have been completely independent of specific knowledge we do not already have.
 
Neianne's personality and general demeanor are such that she's very likeable and endearing for most people, but she lacks command presence almost entirely, and her reputation is 'aaw she's so cute and shy.' Sneaking around the wyvern is noteworthy and people were impressed, but it is valuable to ask if that in of itself is going to be enough to make this crowd of frightened girls listen to her? As recently as the feast episode, she couldn't even manage to sound stern and chiding when she told her teammates to stop fighting -- that's a time where she wanted to make people take what she was saying seriously, and it didn't work.

Can Neianne, a commoner who can at this point still not even speak a sentence without stammering, and who responds to group attention by blushing and fidgeting, catch the undivided attention of this group of girls who do not think she's a leader, hold it, and give off enough confidence and authority to make them do what she says? Kei made it clear that, during the wyvern attack, that this wasn't something she was capable of doing. Things have changed, sure, but I am uncertain if being able to take charge so brazenly is a realistic goal for the end of her first year of training. She's still getting better at dealing with individuals, let alone a crowd.

Ultimately, even if I help out with writing sometimes, it still isn't my call, though. I just feel as if there's a range of what characters realistically can do at this point.
 
I wrote a quick, shitty snip of Neianne making the decision to take charge. Bam. Totally in-character.

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Lucille is floundering, breaking under the pressure of the panicking apprenctices' hopes and expectations but unwilling to let them down. She isn't ready for this. None of you are, really, and it's unfair to put this all on her when she just doesn't know what to do, but who else is there? It should be someone who knows what's happening, who knows what to do next, and who can keep everyone focused and working together. Sieglinde? You think she'd be great at it, whatever her own thoughts, because she's great at everything. But would she accept it? If you asked, and she said no, how much worse would everything get? Elizabeth might be good at it, but, well... Elizabeth.

Whoever it is, you need to get a plan soon. The people who did this are probably still here, and you need to be ready for them. This reminds you of when the wyvern had you trapped and nobody knew what to do and the instructors weren't there to help and you... You? No. That is a terrible idea. You couldn't. You want to change, to be different from the shy little girl you've always been, but this is too much too fast. You aren't ready, not for this. But... nobody else is either, and someone needs to do something before more of you die. And is talking, making a plan really so much worse than fighting the wolves? Than facing the wyvern?

You had to save Wendy. You had to. Nobody else knew how, nobody else could plan a way to do it, so no matter how scary it was, you had to do it. Is this really that different? Nobody knows what to do, nobody wants to have to lead, none of you are ready for it, but you know what's happening and you know why it's happening and you have to help. You need to.

"U-um," you squeak, a half-aborted attempt at getting everyone's attention. You catch Stephanie's head whip around to look at you in surprise out of the corner of your eye, but ignore it. You can do this. You steel yourself, take a deep breath, and try again.
 
Kinruush said:
I wrote a quick, shitty snip of Neianne making the decision to take charge. Bam. Totally in-character.
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...Not really.

Also, you miss the point. It's the same thing as Elizabeth, but in reverse. We're cute and adorable, but trusting us to lead them all and take the best decisions?

That's why, if you want to go at a leading position so bad, that I suggest trying to be a pillar for Lucille to at least lean on.
 
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The less words the better right? I've got something of a minor re-work to how we handle things.
For Lucille, walk over to her, and lean in, like you're scared. her natural reaction will probably be to give headpats. This also affirms her position as someone to look up to and if nothing else, will buy her a bit of time to collect herself before issuing orders.
Sieglinde we could make work by leaning on our sword like our foot is hurt, looking intently at her, then glancing over to Lucille, in effect, wordlessly saying 'it's crutch time'. Or we could just say something like we need a crutch.
Elizabeth...We could, but we'd owe her a favor. A big favor. That's the fastest way I can think of to convince her to step up, and it's a question of do we want to pay that price.
Ourselves it's probably best not to try. But if we do? What we do is we don't talk. Just strip down, let the oddness of that gather everyone's attention, swing sword into the Direwolf, and then beckon to follow us before walking off. We'll be forever known as absolutely mad if we go this route, but it'll probably be the best way for Neianne to take command. She'll be known as the Naked Woeslayer!
 
Megaolix said:
Also, you miss the point. It's the same thing as Elizabeth, but in reverse. We're cute and adorable, but trusting us to lead them all and take the best decisions?
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Okay, even if we assume that while holding a massive bludgeon covered in wolf gore Neianne is still too adorable to take seriously, some of them, Lucille for instance, might remember cute little Neianne being the only one with a plan to help Wendy. So, yes, I'd expect people like Lucille, who would remember Neianne and who very obviously feels over her head, and Sieglinde to be willing to listen to Neianne when she says she has a plan. And for the people who aren't likely to immediately look past her petite stature and general demeanor, there's the fact that she'd be the first person to speak up who actually knows what's happening and has a plan to handle it. She's never done anything to make people actively distrust her or her motives. There's no reason to think people are going to ignore her if she has something worth saying.
 
Kinruush said:
Okay, even if we assume that while holding a massive bludgeon covered in wolf gore Neianne is still too adorable to take seriously, some of them, Lucille for instance, might remember cute little Neianne being the only one with a plan to help Wendy. So, yes, I'd expect people like Lucille, who would remember Neianne and who very obviously feels over her head, and Sieglinde to be willing to listen to Neianne when she says she has a plan. And for the people who aren't likely to immediately look past her petite stature and general demeanor, there's the fact that she'd be the first person to speak up who actually knows what's happening and has a plan to handle it. She's never done anything to make people actively distrust her or her motives. There's no reason to think people are going to ignore her if she has something worth saying.
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That all sounds good. Buuut our planmaking is probably a more subtle aspect of Neianne's abilities, versus the giant bloody sword. That sword says we're an awesome fighter, but that's different from being an awesome leader. It just translates to us trying to call them chicken, effectively. But if they're terrified genuinely they won't think about that implied insult and just run and hide, and thus get picked off.
 
Zaealix said:
That all sounds good. Buuut our planmaking is probably a more subtle aspect of Neianne's abilities, versus the giant bloody sword. That sword says we're an awesome fighter, but that's different from being an awesome leader. It just translates to us trying to call them chicken, effectively. But if they're terrified genuinely they won't think about that implied insult and just run and hide, and thus get picked off.
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I said literally nothing about calling attention to the sword. I implied that assuming people would ignore her or not take her seriously when she's clearly an effective fighter is absurd. I said that she's previously made one effective plan in dire circumstances, and that other people who were there would probably remember that and be willing to listen to her when she gives a workable plan. Like this:

Kinruush said:
[X] Take charge by acting like you know what's happening and you have a plan
-[X] Lay out the facts: The instructors were drawn out late at night, likely to deal with something in a nearby town. There's the same brand on the dire wolf that there was on the wyvern, which is supposedly a Tenereian beastmaster's brand. Someone slit an apprentice's throat. This is clearly a deliberate, orchestrated attack on the academy. The beasts are intended to kill who they can, sow chaos where they can't, and attract our focus so that the perpetrators can kill us piecemeal in the confusion. This is what we're at the academy to learn how to fight against; we just
-[X] Make a plan: We need to keep a watch out for the attackers, preferably chosen from those whose weapons are ineffective against the dire wolves. Help the other apprentices who don't know what's happening. Then, move to a centralized, defensible location to wait for the instructors to return.
-[X] You don't know everyone's strengths and weaknesses, so ask questions freely and delegate when you can.
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Kinruush said:
I said literally nothing about calling attention to the sword. I implied that assuming people would ignore her or not take her seriously when she's clearly an effective fighter is absurd. I said that she's previously made one effective plan in dire circumstances, and that other people who were there would probably remember that and be willing to listen to her when she gives a workable plan. Like this:
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Your plan, quite frankly, sucks.

Why do you think some look up to Lucille for leadership when her hesitation is visible? It's because morale is massively down from a surprise assault and the deaths of two of them at this time. Reminding people that there's an attack probably meant to kill them all is a BAD idea. Furthermore, you ASSUME that's how the assassins are acting. You apparently also assume there's time to go check what everyone can do when currently, no one can fight optimally given moral issues.

And even worse, you assume waiting this out may be enough. That an optimal way like that is enough so long as everyone performs.

Anyway, to sum it up, your plan assume people are like robots and completely forget human elements in it.
 
[X] Take charge by acting like you know what's happening and you have a plan
-[X] Slam your sword down to make sure you gain everyone's attention.
-[X] Lay out the facts: The instructors were drawn out late at night, likely to deal with something in a nearby town. There's the same brand on the dire wolf that there was on the wyvern, which is supposedly a Tenereian beastmaster's brand. Someone slit an apprentice's throat. This is clearly a deliberate, orchestrated attack on the academy. The beasts are intended to kill who they can, sow chaos where they can't, and attract our focus so that the perpetrators can kill us piecemeal in the confusion. This is what we're at the academy to learn how to fight against; we just
-[X] Make a plan: We need to keep a watch out for the attackers, preferably chosen from those whose weapons are ineffective against the dire wolves. Help the other apprentices who don't know what's happening. Then, move to a centralized, defensible location to wait for the instructors to return.
-[X] You don't know everyone's strengths and weaknesses, so ask questions freely and delegate when you can.
 
Megaolix said:
And even worse, you assume waiting this out may be enough. That an optimal way like that is enough so long as everyone performs.

Anyway, to sum it up, your plan assume people are like robots and completely forget human elements in it.
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What? The plan I made was to help the other apprentices and then move somewhere defensible. What else could you possibly want?

It's not "assuming people are like robots," it's letting them know what's actually happening and giving them something to do so they aren't left feeling lost and helpless.
 
Kinruush said:
What? The plan I made was to help the other apprentices and then move somewhere defensible. What else could you possibly want?

It's not "assuming people are like robots," it's letting them know what's actually happening and giving them something to do so they aren't left feeling lost and helpless.
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Because reminding them there are assassins probably here to kill everyone help, huh?

Look, this is a vote to decide who is leader, not for a plan. Forget micromanagement, Kei gave that up in Stand And Watch Them Fall. So don't overreach and stick to that only. Let Kei have Neianne decide on a plan if that somehow win.
 
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