New Dominion (Warcraft)

I'd love to hear some feedback on what I have written! If it's good I might begin a smol Omake series of Jinzei and Rizen meeting and chatting/discussing druidism and the spirits.
And threadmarked, thanks for sharing!

I love the way you handle descriptions they are poetic and detailed, but don't drag on, creating a vivid picture while keeping up a solid pace. I also think your dialogue's overall really solid and carries a good sense of distinct tones and a heavy sense of world building and culture which is very nice to see.

Jinzei and Rizen seem like interesting figures, though I am a touch confused, is Rizen a uniquely large Taunka? Cos as it is, Ice Trolls are on average 11/12 feet while Tauren usually seem to get to 9 at the largest, so I'd expected even a big Taunka to only be comparable to a Drakkari.

Whatever the case, the set up for the meeting was interesting and it makes sense that a young Drakkari would be wary of none Zul'Drak spirits and nature magic given how heavily they control everything and how hostile the natural world outside is. Rizen's motives make sense and I liked the detail on Drak'Tali slowly becoming more known thanks to Rageclaw Traders utilizing it more andf spreading it.
 
Jinzei and Rizen seem like interesting figures, though I am a touch confused, is Rizen a uniquely large Taunka? Cos as it is, Ice Trolls are on average 11/12 feet while Tauren usually seem to get to 9 at the largest, so I'd expected even a big Taunka to only be comparable to a Drakkari.

I was trying to emphasize that Rizen is a Very Large Taunka, owing to both heritage and his status as a guardian (bear) druid, while Jinzei is a young and quite small troll, though she is (barely) an adult.

As a note, I specifically had Jinzei and Rizen use Zandali as opposed to Drak'Tali (the Drakkari dialect), as to Jinzei it would make much more sense to use zandali with a stranger, owing to its status as a more universally used dialect of troll language.
 
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I was trying to emphasize that Rizen is a Very Large Taunka, owing to both heritage and his status as a guardian (bear) druid, while Jinzei is a young and quite small troll, though she is (barely) an adult.

As a note, I specifically had Jinzei and Rizen use Zindali as opposed to Drak'Tali (the Drakkari dialect), as to Jinzei it would make much more sense to use zindali with a stranger, owing to its status as a more universally used dialect of troll language.
I did wonder if that was the case, it was mostly her reference him being bigger than her family too that left me thinking "Wait so is this guy like a some really unique exception, or have I not properly conveyed how stupid big Drakkari are?" XD

Oh I see, that is very clever, love seeing the thought that went into that, it works well!
 
The bit about languagues is a bit hard to parse perhaps, so I edited it to include plurals and make it clear that Rizen and Jinzei are specifically using Zandali out of all the dialects.
 
The bit about languagues is a bit hard to parse perhaps, so I edited it to include plurals and make it clear that Rizen and Jinzei are specifically using Zandali out of all the dialects.

Rizen truly earned his title as the Risen Claw by being absolutely f**king enormous, yas. XD
Much obliged there :)

Totally fair XD

Malakk (Sees Rizen is around his height and mass)
Malakk (I want to fight him. I won't, because that would be rude. But I really want too.)
 
Malakk (Sees Rizen is around his height and mass)
Malakk (I want to fight him. I won't, because that would be rude. But I really want too.)

Rizen: "And here is the Icemist honor-ring, where any who wish may challenge others to a duel of honour, or a brawl for firewater."

Malakk(inwardly): 'YEEESSSSSS'
Malakk: "You want to fight, Big Man?! Your Claw, My Axe! Wrestle Me if Ya Dare!"
 
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Legit just imagining the ring half broken and covered in ice spices and craters as the two lean against a wall drinking and being patched up XD
 
Legit just imagining the ring half broken and covered in ice spices and craters as the two lean against a wall drinking and being patched up XD

Legit might turn this into a probably non-canon series of Omakes where Rizen slowly works his way into revealing a true intent for his visits to camps and settlements in the area, that being gauging what troll support he might gather for dealing with Vordrassil's slowly festering corruption.

Tho I'd love for at least this and other low-impact ones to be considered at least semi-canon, given that it's just Jinzei and Rizen sharing some booze for now.
 
Legit might turn this into a probably non-canon series of Omakes where Rizen slowly works his way into revealing a true intent for his visits to camps and settlements in the area, that being gauging what troll support he might gather for dealing with Vordrassil's slowly festering corruption.

Tho I'd love for at least this and other low-impact ones to be considered at least semi-canon, given that it's just Jinzei and Rizen sharing some booze for now.
That could be a lot of fun, I'd be totally up for varying degrees of soft or low canon; though I will note I do have some ideas for Vordrassil's slowly festering corruption, (All very vague future stuff) so addressing that directly may be difficult.
 
That could be a lot of fun, I'd be totally up for varying degrees of soft or low canon; though I will note I do have some ideas for Vordrassil's slowly festering corruption, (All very vague future stuff) so addressing that directly may be difficult.

Better if I keep away from directly addressing and stick to sharing vague concerns and/or warnings?
 
Better if I keep away from directly addressing and stick to sharing vague concerns and/or warnings?
Probably, messed up stuff happening to spirits in the woods is definitely plausible, as are ominous visions and the like, plus the Iron Dwarves; but Vordassil's corruption wasn't a quick or overt thing. So while not keyed in to external dangers as they should be I'd be leery to make the corruption be something an outsider, even a skilled one, could notice well before the Furbolg did. Plus as I said, potential plans, though be it potential ><
 
Probably, messed up stuff happening to spirits in the woods is definitely plausible, as are ominous visions and the like, plus the Iron Dwarves; but Vordassil's corruption wasn't a quick or overt thing. So while not keyed in to external dangers as they should be I'd be leery to make the corruption be something an outsider, even a skilled one, could notice well before the Furbolg did. Plus as I said, potential plans, though be it potential ><

I will restrain his information, though I do feel that a druid, and especially a Druid of the Claw (read; follower of ursoc+ursol) would be a friend to Firbolgs and thus a better placed person than most to spot those first tiny signs of growing darkness.

Especially via the vague and usually obscure language of dreaming visions.

The taunka warred with corrupted forest spirits before, though distantly in the past, and they would hate to be caught blindsided again.
Though at this point the war would likely be a thing of oral myths and faded histories millenia past, passed down in runic scripts that write in tongues oft unused.
 
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I am of course keeping in mind that the corruption would only start to fully manifest within Grizzlemaw 20ish years on in the game-canon timeline, pushed forwards by Arthas's jackassery, so dw about me suddenly having tentacle bears and blood-pits spring up in Jinzei's campsite. XD
 
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I will restrain his information, though I do feel that a druid, and especially a Druid of the Claw (read; follower of ursoc+ursol) would be a friend to Firbolgs and thus a better placed person than most to spot those first tiny signs of growing darkness.

Especially via the vague and oft obscure language of dreaming visions.

The taunka warred with corrupted forest spirits before, though distantly in the past, and they would hate to be caught blindsided again.
Though at this point the war would likely be a thing of oral myths and faded histories millenia past, passed down in runic scripts that write in tongues oft unused.
That's a fair take, (Though the Furbolgs are also followers of Ursol and Ursoc) but I feel it begs the question of how the Furbolg got corrupted in canon, they aren't a stupid people after all, so I feel that whatever was going on with Vordassil had to be something exceedingly subtle or their shift would have been faster and more overt, or they'd have noticed it
I am of course keeping in mind that the corruption would only start to fully manifest within Grizzlemaw 20ish years on in the game-canon timeline, pushed forwards by Arthas's jackassery, so dw about me suddenly having tentacle bears and blood-pits spring up in Jinzei's campsite. XD
Fair, though in that context I imagine Rizen wouldn't know specifically of Vordassil being corrupted as seemed to be the original suggestion?
 
Fair, though in that context I imagine Rizen wouldn't know specifically of Vordassil being corrupted as seemed to be the original suggestion?
I may have misworded or indeed have been misthinking it before doing a bunch more research, but indeed the corruption rising inside Grizzlemaw (Vordrassil) is an exceedingly subtle thing even within the context and time period of WotLK.
It might even be a corrupted effort that Rizen himself would directly assist in, without truly realising the ramifications!

What I mean now is that Rizen would just be finding vague and ominous hints of creeping darkness throughout the entirety of the grizzly hill's vast forests and valleys, scattered and hidden by the normal shade endemic to nature's chaos.

Vordrassil itself is the centre of a furbolg city, with shamans and druids of its own, and in all likelyhood Rizen might even consider it to be a bastion of purity at this time. It is a place to meditate that three actual ancients (Ursol, Kodian and Ursonn) might roam past regularly.

Note that All three bear ancients are said to wander in-lore (Ursol apparently wandering all of Azeroth), even if their locations are fixed in-game.
 
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I may have misworded or indeed have been misthinking it before doing a bunch more research, but indeed the corruption rising inside Grizzlemaw (Vordrassil) is an exceedingly subtle thing even within the context and time period of WotLK.
It might even be a corrupted effort that Rizen himself would directly assist in, without truly realising the ramifications!

What I mean now is that Rizen would just be finding vague and ominous hints of creeping darkness throughout the entirety of the grizzly hill's vast forests and valleys, scattered and hidden by the normal shade endemic to nature's chaos.

Vordrassil itself is the centre of a furbolg city, with shamans and druids of its own, and in all likelyhood Rizen might even consider it to be a bastion of purity at this time. It is a place to meditate that three actual ancients (Ursol, Kodian and Ursonn) might roam past regularly.

Note that All three bear ancients are said to wander in-lore (Ursol apparently wandering all of Azeroth), even if their locations are fixed in-game.
Ah I see, OK then, totally fair, go nuts XD

Also I would love to see Vordrassil treat as a city, I did a similar upgrade with Icemist Village into an at least Theramore sized city, a crowded one. not cos cities are strictly necessary, but cos like, I feel village really undersells what some of these places are meant to be, let alone the logical scale they operate on.

Oh, also I should have a world building post to share soon-ish, as I want to go into some stuff I've been vaguely mentioning and also share a cool video cos cool XD
 
Worldbuilding: Wards & Barriers
OK, so I promised a world building post on the SV thread and now that I am done editing the next chapter, I can finally do it.

Thus we are going to briefly cover some terms I have been tossing around in battles but not focused on over much, relying on context to convey their usage over direct explanation. However, they are going to become more relevant and while I think the writing carries it forward, I wanted to share this video and talk about it anyway.

Wards & Barriers

I've had characters reference these a lot, but you'll be unsurprised to know these terms don't pop up much if at all in WOW and not consistently. As it is, WOW doesn't seem to focus on the mechanics of war too much, or at least not consistently, but for the sake of my story I have to take into consideration why castle walls are still a thing in a world with cannons and such so here we are.

Wards:
Are a form of protective magic, akin to enchantments but often with a more subtle or spiritual bent (The language around terms can vary and be broad). For instance, Drakkari might place a blessing or 'ward' on their mounts to protect them from the undue influence of enemy shamans; or a house might have spiritual protections laid upon it to try and deter ghosts. Broadly speaking, wards is a long term, subtle enchantment, usually crafted for defensive purposes, to reinforce or protect against something, whether it be blunt force trauma (Like say a cannon ball VS castle wall) or something more conceptual as mentioned above. They tend to make up for a lack of raw power with scale, longevity and specialization.


Barriers:
These are seen more often in WOW, the Sunwell barrier around Silvermoon in the Second War, or the defensive bubble of Dalaran and Suramar. These are large-scale examples, smaller scale one's would be what we saw with the Drakkari army when the dead attacked, with large-scale coordination of casted and enchanted tools to create magical barriers to keep the dead at bay. Barriers are by their nature temporary, but powerful, yet so energy intensive that if they are long term they need a constant, overwhelming source of magic, (Sunwell) or are stationary and dependent on Ley Lines and in the latter case there can be very damaging consequences to maintain such magic constantly (Notice the irradiated crater).


Conclusion:
In cases like sieges, such as during the First or Second War, large city walls will already be warded/enchanted to withstand a lot of punishment in the forms the nation expects to be attacked by. However, this alone wouldn't say, stop dragons from flying over the walls, and thus barriers come in and an also be used to reinforce weakening sectors of wall or other fortifications.

Large barriers or massive collections of enchanted weapons (Shield Walls, siege engines ETC) will also be used by the invading force to protect their troop movements and camps as they stage attacks. The exact nature of these defenses will vary wildly based on magic, relative skills, numbers, powers, environment and of course, the intent going into the spells, one size does not fit all situations.

This tends to make war in the Warcraft Universe as much about stamina as it is attacking power or speed, it doesn't matter f you can launch a thousand cannonballs at an enemy fortification if they have warded their walls against it and constantly have barriers layered on top of that and the magic reinforced. (Let alone alchemically enhanced building materials)

This means, a good chunk of warfare is about finding someway to break through an enemies defenses so that skirmishing may begin; once that happens battle will then become less linear as platoons clash across streets, fields and forests. A good example, though be it a bit too small scale and adventurer focused, but overall doing a great job capturing how war looks and feels on Azeroth can be found here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM1LxHosiFM


NOTES:
An exception to this common policy would be the Horde in the Second War, who had little defensive magic beyond what the Amani offered. Instead using their Death Knights to badger the enemies so much that their magical enemies had to focus most of their energy on trying to avoid their magic being rotted away or fighting tornadoes, while bloodlust enhanced orcs crashed against magical defense, fell weapons burning at the magic.

A good example of barriers and wards importance would be how the Troll Wars were lost. Largely in part because Jin'tha did not know the humans had access to arcane magic and as a result his barriers did not account for that, allowing the firestorm to break through and burn him and his army alive.

Quel'Thalas is is a unique example of high powered wards, utilizing the Sunwell, some twisted druidic magic, Ley Lines and more, to alter the land itself and suppress magic not permitted, but that comes with some major drawbacks too.

This system can also explain why dungeons are such a thing in WOW, and why its so hard to remove people from them.
 
Ah I see, OK then, totally fair, go nuts XD

Also I would love to see Vordrassil treat as a city, I did a similar upgrade with Icemist Village into an at least Theramore sized city, a crowded one. not cos cities are strictly necessary, but cos like, I feel village really undersells what some of these places are meant to be, let alone the logical scale they operate on.

Oh, also I should have a world building post to share soon-ish, as I want to go into some stuff I've been vaguely mentioning and also share a cool video cos cool XD
The scale of WoW cities is canonically fucky-wucky, as even admitted by the WoW team themselves! The buildings are weirdly scaled and simplified, and the cities are essentially 10x-100x smaller than they should be, made to feel big while still being small enough to run across in-game without players getting bored.

Just as a point of comparison, the In-lore Stormwind would essentially cover the same land area as the in-game continents of Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms combined.
 
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Mmmmm

So just as a thought, given the shared origins and natures of Loa, would it be fair for a Taunka druid to treat Loa Totems as shrines to the wild-gods, for the purpose of meditating and projecting into the Emerald Dream?
 
Mmmmm

So just as a thought, given the shared origins and natures of Loa, would it be fair for a Taunka druid to treat Loa Totems as shrines to the wild-gods, for the purpose of meditating and projecting into the Emerald Dream?
An interesting question and one that let's me go off on a tangent, so please bear with me:

Some people may have noticed I use the term Loa and God rather distinct, but divine collectively, this was no an accident, within the cosmology as I see it there is a distinction between the Loa and Gods, but its not a matter of divine rank, but origin and domain. Broadly speaking a Loa, an Eternal and a God are all, nominally the same kind of entity, they might vary in terms of power or position, so what makes them distinct?

Well, Hakkar is described as no one knowing where he came from and as a blood god, what's more we visit several temples in Zul'Drak attributed to gods rather than Loa and we never directly engage with their physical forms like we do the Loa, dead or alive, and their blessings and general... Engagement, comes off as more distant and alien, feelings and sensations conveyed through the medium of offerings as opposed to casual conversation.

Why?

Basically 'gods' are functionally alien Loa/Eternals, who hail from other worlds or sectors of space, whose influence is much more distant and delicate that the more localized deities (Usually) but functions in a rather similar way. Zim'Rhuk The Wise One is an example of this.



Beyond that and as to the question, I will freely admit, I ignore the "Titans created the Loa" thing because I think its disparaging to the trolls to make their gods little more than pets and given I go with the older lore of trolls predating Titanic arrival, the same is true for the beings they worship.

Meanwhile the Emerald Dream is sort of its own weird thing, but I don't think I view it as inherent to Druidism, save for the fact 99% of Druids were taught by Cenarius who has a personal investment in the place. But as it stands, Druids exist without connecting to the Emerald Dream, the dream is just like a mini Twisting Nether for Druids.
 
An interesting question and one that let's me go off on a tangent, so please bear with me:

Some people may have noticed I use the term Loa and God rather distinct, but divine collectively, this was no an accident, within the cosmology as I see it there is a distinction between the Loa and Gods, but its not a matter of divine rank, but origin and domain. Broadly speaking a Loa, an Eternal and a God are all, nominally the same kind of entity, they might vary in terms of power or position, so what makes them distinct?

Well, Hakkar is described as no one knowing where he came from and as a blood god, what's more we visit several temples in Zul'Drak attributed to gods rather than Loa and we never directly engage with their physical forms like we do the Loa, dead or alive, and their blessings and general... Engagement, comes off as more distant and alien, feelings and sensations conveyed through the medium of offerings as opposed to casual conversation.

Why?

Basically 'gods' are functionally alien Loa/Eternals, who hail from other worlds or sectors of space, whose influence is much more distant and delicate that the more localized deities (Usually) but functions in a rather similar way. Zim'Rhuk The Wise One is an example of this.



Beyond that and as to the question, I will freely admit, I ignore the "Titans created the Loa" thing because I think its disparaging to the trolls to make their gods little more than pets and given I go with the older lore of trolls predating Titanic arrival, the same is true for the beings they worship.

Meanwhile the Emerald Dream is sort of its own weird thing, but I don't think I view it as inherent to Druidism, save for the fact 99% of Druids were taught by Cenarius who has a personal investment in the place. But as it stands, Druids exist without connecting to the Emerald Dream, the dream is just like a mini Twisting Nether for Druids.

An interesting take and if you don't mind me doing so, I'd like to have a crack at expanding/adapting my own ideas to fit within it.

You see as according to older WoW lore about the nature of magic and its place within the cosmology, which is still largely implied by the current given lore (though only implied and less directly stated), the mortal minds of living creatures are what grant gods or such entities (Wild Gods, Living Eternals, Loa, Old Gods) their 'shape' as they come into contact with the mortal universe, whether by manifesting or by brushing up against it.

So for me I do completely agree that the wild gods and loa and all such are much the same entities, just shaped and made from different varieties of magic. They form on worlds with life and then travel likely between worlds as life emerges, spreading or help seeding their own chosen variety of creatures upon nascently forming ecosystems.
 
As it stands my question was largely in relation to a planned omake (a continuance of Rizen and Jinzei) wherein Rizen will 'test out' his own little theories by connecting to the emerald dream via Loa totems.

I say 'via' due to druids seemingly using the presence of or connection to wild-gods in order to guide themselves into the dream, perhaps using said entity's magical connection to the life-plain as a helpful meditative focus.

That said, not all Loa seem to be entirely gods of the wild or tied to 'life' magic. So Rizen would be using Animal Loa as opposed to those connected to other aspects of magic.
 
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An interesting take and if you don't mind me doing so, I'd like to have a crack at expanding/adapting my own ideas to fit within it.
Interesting, I don't really recall ever getting this vibe from the older world building, but that might just be me, and if its presented in universe by a fallible character, its still open to interpretation.

As it stands my question was largely in relation to a planned omake (a continuance of Rizen and Jinzei) wherein Rizen will 'test out' his own little theories by connecting to the emerald dream via Loa totems.
As it is I am unsure if any of the Loa (IE Troll Pantheon) have direct ties to the Emerald Dream, that seems to mostly be a Wild God (IE Kaldorei/Dryad & Furbolg Pantheon) thing, but I can see trying to vibe with a chosen Loa's totem having potentially unique results and benefits whatever happens.
 
Interesting, I don't really recall ever getting this vibe from the older world building, but that might just be me, and if its presented in universe by a fallible character, its still open to interpretation.
Please do not take my musings as gospel, or my claims as absolute recollections. >~<. My mind is rather choked by millions of words read including both fanon and canon, including things said or stated offhandedly by people within the Blizzard staff or WoW NPCs.

Interpretation is everything ^..^

As to the connection between Loa and Wild God, I do recall reading (I will try to find the citation) that the Loa and Wild-Gods are in some cases the literal same thing, with Loa being basically the troll name for things which the Night-Elves would later name as Wild Gods.
 
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