Do you think Shade is Cool?

  • I think he is frosty

  • What a chilling pun

  • Chillrend to the chest!

  • Freeze and don't you make a pun!

  • I have no mouth and I must I-scream


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Oh I totally agree with you there. Never thought otherwise. Arngeir even makes note of the precision of the LDB's Voice. I figure that's the main thing with the Greybeards. Regular men and mer are not nearly as naturally attuned to it as Dragons or Dragonborn are and the Greybeards immerse themselves in it and make it the only thing they do. It's not surprising that the raw knowledge and power of the Thu'um they have gets ahead of their control and precision.

I always figured the old-school pre-WIndcaller Tongues went for a less immersive approach, only ever fully mastering a few Shouts each and not wallowing in it as much as the Greybeards do as a rule, except for some, like Jurgen Windcaller, who were prodigies or just really dedicated.
Yeah, can't argue with you there. I was more responding to the other guy.

The problem with lore in the Elder Scrolls universe is that the games aren't representative of the actual world and that books all have an inherent bias to them. In the end, canon is what you make of it, so it's not like it's confirmed either way. That's why Apocrypha is such a thing in lore communities, a lot of the time.
 
Yeah, can't argue with you there. I was more responding to the other guy.

The problem with lore in the Elder Scrolls universe is that the games aren't representative of the actual world and that books all have an inherent bias to them. In the end, canon is what you make of it, so it's not like it's confirmed either way. That's why Apocrypha is such a thing in lore communities, a lot of the time.

As far as I am aware "The Elder Scrolls: Arena" is technically how big Tamriel is if it was on Earth. Because it takes Real life weeks from going to one side of Tamriel to the other.
 
As far as I am aware "The Elder Scrolls: Arena" is technically how big Tamriel is if it was on Earth. Because it takes Real life weeks from going to one side of Tamriel to the other.
Most Arena lore is pretty heavily contradicted in later games. Morrowind is officially when it 'starts', with Daggerfall being second in precedence (for what is considered canon) and finally Arena. This is because a ton of information was retconned through those three games. Of course, the size of Tamriel is never contradicted and so we can go ahead with Arena lore there.

On the specific size of Tamriel:

The Pocket Guide to the Empire First Edition: Morrowind states:
The vast Volcano of Tamriel, this giant mountain dominates the north of Morrowind. It is a small continent all to itself, riven from the rest of Morrowind by the remains of a colossal crater. On a clear day (an exceedingly rare event), the peak can be seen from Almalexia, 250 miles to the south.

Which tells us that Almalexia (Mournhold) is 250 miles away from Red Mountain. Using this map, we can measure out the actual size of various provinces (and surrounding landmasses). That gives us a size of about 918,000 square miles.

Using a different scale measure, the book The Infernal City mentions Lilmoth (a city in Black Marsh/Argonia) is approximately 12 miles from the shoreline. Using that as a scale, it tells us that Tamriel is only the size of Egypt.

The manual for Arena, of course, states that Tamriel is approximately 12 million square miles. It depends on what you consider canon and how accurate various books are.

Maps also vary, of course, so I would be inclined to go with the Arena measurements and use the PGEMRM scale to find measurements of specific areas within Tamriel.

EDIT: I just realized what you actually meant. By 'representative of the actual world", I meant historically and metaphysically, not as in geography.

For instance, Vivec's 36 Lessons are most definitely not objectively true. The Anuad conflicts with the Monomyth, and most historical books are written by people who have something to gain by fudging the truth.

Second Edit: This isn't my work. Other people did it.
 
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They are both objectively false and objectively true. That is what it means to be Vehk and Vehk, a duality in one.
Well, I know that they're true in a sense. They're just not the only truth that exists. A better example might have been the mer version of the Monomyth as opposed to the version that men have.
 
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kill and do funny things with out innards that weren't really funny,
with our innards
Willow was taught like a bowstring ready to let loose a hail of arrows.
taut like
If was still alive, then nothing short of a mountain avalanche would kill him,
If he was still
Interesting to see the habits of the various siblings. At least one is fond of books, which is neat.
 
Chapter Twelve - Riverwood - 19th of Last Seed 4E 201 - Umbra
Chapter Twelve - Riverwood - 19th of Last Seed 4E 201 - Umbra

I did not expect the hug. I did expect a slap of sorts, some form of swift enactment of justice for having done something stupid, or a highly vindictive type of vengeance of the sour-mood variety, but I did not expect simply a hug and nothing more. Rae's robes smelled of berries and mountain plants, while Dragnor's hand clasped with a grip that wasn't like a steel vice, but more of a comforting warm presence, upon my shoulder as if to show how proud he was.

It was strange.

We had stepped back inside the inn of the Sleeping Giant of Riverwood just minutes before Dragnor and Rae intended on leaving to come looking for me, though they clearly weren't worried. They were outright planning an assault on the Barrows by the looks of their equipment.

"You decided to leave him unattended," Ralvas said dryly, glancing from Rae to Dragnor and then back towards Rae. "Willow will be informed of this," he added with a small smirk.

"That's...Ralvas," Dragnor said while swallowing, "You can't do this. I'm your big brother!" Dragnor cried out. "Have mercy!"

Ralvas' smile was a thin thing of vindictive pleasure. "Hardships will only make you stronger, Dragnor," he mused. "Pain will be a good teacher for the likes of you on what not to do when you are tasked with the protection of your younger siblings. Why is it that such things never happen when I am in charge?"

"Because you're a boring person," Dragnor replied with a huff, "And boring people never do fun things, and they usually get to live to an old age while being all wrinkly and wizened. You just need to paint your beard white and then you'll be the perfect painting of the wise wizard saying, young ones, don't you run along me hallways they've been polished my the spittle of my prattling!" as he said that and moved his arms wide while gesticulating, Sharrum broke into a chuckle.

"And who do we have here?" Rae said, abruptly changing the conversation as she gave a coy smile, staring straight at the caught-in-the-headlights deer of the situation. Sharrum was behind her, so even if she wanted to, Berry had no means to escape.

Rae's fingers worked on the tough bandit's shoulders, gripping her in a concerned form of hold that could not be broken, no matter the strength exerted. At least, that was my modest mental opinion, and I was going to keep it like that. "You're kind of young for being out so late. Are you the daughter of someone in the village? Were you out and about with my brother?" Berry opened her mouth to say something, perhaps a snapping and curt remark on how Rae shouldn't be coddling her. It didn't work. "Thank you for keeping him safe out here," Rae continued, grinning. "Come on, let's get something to eat and you can tell us all about your adventures with my brother! I'm sure you must be famished."

"I should have mentioned we found them facing off a Draugr," Ralvas said offhandedly, Rae's smile suddenly dropping a few inches in heat as she turned her head towards me. "In the middle of the Bleak Falls Barrows back up in the mountains," he added as if he was discussing the weather, taking a seat at a long table near the fire, turning his back to it so that he could warm his hands. His ruby eyes gleamed with the sort of coquettish revenge only someone who truly understands what revenge feels like could ever pick up. "Willow will enjoy being told that our youngest sibling risked his life, and nearly died, trying to valiantly find out where his two older siblings had gone. I suppose I will be the one getting elder siblings rights for the next months, oh yes I will."

"Elder sibling rights?" I blinked as I asked that, not receiving any reply from Rae or Dragnor as Sharrum simply took a seat on the opposite side of the table and thumped the spot by his side.

"Sit here, brother, and regale me with your tales of wild adventuring!" he exclaimed, a hand raised in what could only be described as the best Shakespearian tone ever born out of the deep voice of an orc. "I, Sharrum, bold and brave orsimer wish to listen to it."

I took the offered seat by the bench mostly because I was too shocked by the suddenness of it all. Rae guided Berry to sit down by her side, leaving Dragnor to glare daggers at Ralvas, both of them sitting one next to the other on the same side.

"What are the elder sibling rights?" I asked once more, looking at Ralvas who furrowed his brows.

"What are the..." Ralvas mumbled, "Are you feeling all right? Were you poisoned while in the crypts?" he sharply turned towards Rae. "Do you have the ingredients required to brew something to purge his body?"

"Ah, no!" Rae said quickly, shaking her head. "Umbra was hit in the back of the head when we were ambushed by the Imperial army in Darkwater Crossing," she grinned shyly, looking at Berry, "We're not bad people."

Berry, most calmly, nodded hastily in turn. "Me neither," she said quickly.

"Good!" Rae said with a smile.

"Good!" Berry replied with a smile and a nod.

"Great!" Rae nervously giggled. "If you were a cultist, I'd be telling you to run before Willow catches a sniff of you, because the last cultist ended up...badly."

"Do I really have a bad habit of picking up cultists?" I asked, already dreading the answer.

"Brother," Dragnor said, a hand on his forehead, "It pains me to say this as the oldest, wisest, best brother you ever had, but I must admit that when I go out hunting for women, and you follow me, then the entire hall empties of fish! Why do they not love my well-toned muscles, and prefer your suave tongue? Why!?" melodramatically speaking, Dragnor stood up and began to walk away towards the door.

A sudden blotch of ice formed a sharp spike an inch away from Dragnor's foot as Ralvas' right hand covered in icy crystals, the Dunmer's eyes now literally glowing with fiery rage. "So you were ambushed," Ralvas said, "And then what happened?" he asked next, gesturing at Dragnor to sit back down. Dragnor did so, but he actually scuttled a bit away from Ralvas within seconds.

"No magic in my inn," the innkeeper spoke, arriving from his spot behind the counter. "Will you be eating or drinking?"

"Eating and drinking, everything, twice," I said quite quickly.

"What he said," Berry added.

"No more troubles," the innkeeper said looking at Ralvas, who in turn sighed and nodded.

As the innkeeper left after receiving confirmation that everyone wanted something to eat and drink, Ralvas turned to look at Rae, silently making it clear he wanted her to continue. She did. By the time she was done narrating the escape from Helgen, even Berry was raptly listening on.

"Willow will skin you alive," Ralvas said. "She will then pour salt over your flayed skin and stitch it back up with nettles. You know she will once she finds out, don't you?"

"I'm enlisting in the legion after dropping Umbra off," Dragnor said quickly. "If I manage to run faster than she can track, I should be safe."

Sharrum turned to look at me, and though my insides and my innards gave me the gut feeling that it would happen, I didn't really think it would happen. I was too naive, of course. It happened.

An Orc's head is way tougher than a Nord's head.

As I slumped back on the bench, groaning and clutching my forehead, Sharrum asked with quite the care in his voice, "Are you all right now, brother? Does thou remember the times we spent basking under the moonlight reciting verses and poems meant to enrich our souls pained by the cruel twists of fate?"

"No," I gurgled out, massaging my throbbing forehead. "Why do people keep hitting my head? Or slamming me against walls, or bashing my head in..."

"That explains why you keep spouting warbled nonsense," Berry said, her teeth having already finished the mountain goat leg that the innkeeper had served her. "So Helgen was destroyed? Might be something valuable there if looters haven't reached it first."

"I prefer the term scavengers," Dragnor said.

I stared at Dragnor, and then at Rae. "You went back there," I said, receiving an uneasy sharing of glances between Rae and Dragnor who all but confirmed it.

"We needed the money to buy a horse," Dragnor said, "To pull the carriage on which to put our stuff," he grinned. "But we were lucky, because we managed to get ourselves a horse with a saddle and all from near the fort. Must have belonged to a man of the guard. It had the Empire's symbols and everything."

"The ways of the Emperor work mysteriously," I acquiesced, wincing slightly from the small thrumming pain by the side of my head. "So I guess the plan's to leave tomorrow? I have to pay back Berry for the potions she spent keeping my hide alive."

"Of course," Rae said with a grin, "It wouldn't do to let a debt stand."

Berry actually did not speak at first, at a seeming loss for words. "I already took my part from the treasure in the cavern," she said in the end, "There's...we're even." She swallowed the mug of mead in front of her, "Really, we're even."

"Treasure in the cavern?" Dragnor asked, eyes glinting. "Oh you rascal! You went treasure and lady-hunting at the same time!"

Sharrum snorted. "If we had not been there, they would have both died."

Berry finished her mead, exhaling loudly. "That's the way of Skyrim. You either chew your meal or you end up being chewed," she grinned. "It's all right, because Sovngarde awaits the strong and valorous."

I hummed and said nothing as I grabbed what remained of my roasted goat leg and bit down on the few pieces of meat that still were attached to it. Behind me, I could hear the shuffling of feet as Delphine began to work on polishing a table that had been left dirty by some random drunken Nords, "You should come with us to Whiterun," I said, "The destruction of Helgen is one thing, the awakening of the Draugr another, but I am sure that you being the Dragonborn also holds meaning."

"You decided that because I could read those words on the wall while you couldn't? You did hit your head hard, perhaps it's that? Made you incapable of reading," Berry replied flatly.

"What I'm saying is that you should never discount how powerful fate is," I said in turn. "Amuse me anyway, or do you intend to stay in Riverwood? At the very least travelling in company until Whiterun is a better option than going alone, don't you think?"

"If you are speaking about the words written in ancient Nord on the Word Wall," Ralvas spoke, "I was capable of reading them too. Mostly because it was ancient Nord, and since Dragnor refused to learn it himself, I did it in his stead to read books about Skyrim mostly lost to the ages." He inclined his head to the side. "Perhaps you merely underestimated the depths of your friend's culture, Umbra. You should never judge a book by its cover. Although young looking, she must have spent a considerable amount of time behind books to learn the intricacies of the ancient Nordic tongue."

Berry looked at Ralvas as if he had just grown a second head.

"No, I don't think she did," I said in turn.

Ralvas, most scientifically, brought out the large Dragonstone that he and Sharrum had been dragging until then and turned it around. "What does this passage say?" he asked, pointing at the words written behind the Dragonstone itself. To me, it looked like chicken scratching.

To Berry, who swallowed, words came out from her mouth that made an awful lot of sense.

"Here lie our fallen lords, until the power of Alduin revives."

I blinked as I heard the words.

Wait.

Did it...

Did it say lords as in plural?
 
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"Here lies the guardian keeper of dragonstone, and a force of unending rage and darkness." Notice the and in the sentence. Clearly the draugr they killed was the "guardian keeper of dragonstone." Who is the force of unending rage and darkness you may ask? Well I think this lends precedence to my earlier theory that this is in fact Umbra. I theorize that he somehow got his hands on the wooden dragon priest mask or got sent backwards in time by an elder scroll. Either way, he will somehow end up stranded in the past, but, unlike when something like this happened in the fate/stay night fic, he isn't immortal. As he knows that he will be needed in the future to save his siblings/Berry from some horrible fate or something, he will use his barter skill, that he leveled to one hundred, to get himself buried with the dragon stone. I further hypothesize that draugr!Umbra will appear after the living Umbra gets sent back in time to get Umbra's siblings/Berry out of trouble.... Not that I put a lot of thought into this or anything....
 
Ah yes, the Dragon Burial map. I wonder if Delphine will try to swipe the stone or sneakily charcoal sketch the map while they're asleep. If I recall correctly the order Alduin revives the buried dragon lords starts off in the Hold of the Rift then goes counter clockwise across the region of Skyrim.
 
while Dragnor's hand clasped with a grip that wasn't like a steel vice, but more of a comforting warm presence, upon my shoulder as if to show how proud he was.

It was strange.

It's always a bittersweet moment when the Student surpasses the Master in their craft.

Unfortunately for you, Dragnor is a Master of Bad Ideas.

Guess what that makes you.
 
Signs continue to pile up that Berry's the Dragonborn, even if she can't Shout yet. Although I did find it funny one of Umbra's siblings could read the wall too, because they learned Ancient Nord for reading books from said time period.
 
I remember a fic I read where the legends of the dragonborn state he would be born as Alduin returned and that moment was when Alduin shouted at you in Helgen. If you remember, it was a Fus-Ro-Dah. A shout capable of smashing people into pieces. Straight from the mouth of the eldest son of Akatosh.

You died and were reborn then.

How does this apply to Umbra? Well, no newborn has memories. Rejoice Umbra! Despite your desperate attempts to foist the responsibility onto someone else, you cannot cheat fate Dragonborn.
 
"Here lie our fallen lords, until the power of Alduin revives them."
FTFY
It refers to the Dragons in the burial mounds, the Dragonstone is a map of Skyrim marked with the location of all said mounds. Where the fallen dragons lie, until Alduin goes and revives them.
"Here lies the guardian keeper of dragonstone, and a force of unending rage and darkness." Notice the and in the sentence. Clearly the draugr they killed was the "guardian keeper of dragonstone." Who is the force of unending rage and darkness you may ask? Well I think this lends precedence to my earlier theory that this is in fact Umbra. I theorize that he somehow got his hands on the wooden dragon priest mask or got sent backwards in time by an elder scroll.
That's the canon translation of the Word Wall(what do you call an angry undead guard? "An unending force of rage and darkness"), all Shouts learned at a Word Wall are part of a full sentence written on the walls.
 
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FTFY
It refers to the Dragons in the burial mounds, the Dragonstone is a map of Skyrim marked with the location of all said mounds. Where the fallen dragons lie, until Alduin goes and revives them.

That's the canon translation of the Word Wall(what do you call an angry undead guard? "An unending force of rage and darkness"), all Shouts learned at a Word Wall are part of a full sentence written on the walls.

No offense, but shadenight is too fine a writer for me to believe he made a mistake on a line that important. But regardless, Deathlords or Dragons, or hell, Deathlords AND Dragons, shit ain't looking good. I dare not consider possible tragedies that might befall Umbra, for the unlikely chance of inspiring shadenight even farther.

And I just realized, they never explained elder sibling rights!
 
Let's be honest, a good portion of that stuff is true.
That's certainly what Vivec, bloated with stolen divinity and ruling as a god as part of a theocratic junta with power of life and death over Morrowind would have you think.
Personally, I don't see him as an awesome due full of CHIM and truth as much as Kim Jong-il mainlining the Heart of Lorkhan.
Did it say lords as in plural?

That feeling when it becomes apparent that shit is going down in a big way and you don't know what that shit is...
 
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