Monster (A Star Wars Imperial Navy Defector Quest)

Voting is open
So... assuming that we capture Ganthel... and assuming that it possesses significant naval-compatible manufacturing... and assuming that we can reconfigure said manufacturing... What should we do with it? Would we actually want a super star destroyer if somehow we could get one? I mean, sure, they are a bit impractical, but sometimes having a strongpoint can be a pivotal factor in a battle, and they do not, generally, go down without a rather sizeable fight. Is there such a thing as too much focus on Hunter production? They seem decent, and can fill a lot of roles, and are what we have access to, but would we benefit from them so much that it would be better to leave the big ships to stagnate? Star Destroyers? Frigates? Interdictors? Fighter-heavy refits? Spinal gun refits*? refit our entire compliment of T.I.E.s to something else? Put a spinal-mounted gun and some vectoring-thrusters into a moon? Enough naval mines to drown the local space-lanes and preferable fleet-approaches?

I actually like the idea of defensive facilities. They may not be as effective in a military campaign as a mobile force is, but they tend to be worth it in any battle they actually participate in, and I do not feel that Vaere is inclined towards conquest. I mean, yes, we are right in the middle of conquesting right now, but that feels more like an obvious low-hanging fruit and political pressure, rather than the desire to expand our holdings. With only two or three systems to fortify, we could, I feel, actually do a very comprehensive job of it.

*I mean, I cannot see us getting ahold of superlasers, nor installing them in our available ships, but maybe we could rig up some support systems for a turbolaser to get it up towards the thousands-of-shots-per-minute range. Sure, we couldn't aim it without turning the whole ship around, and it would likely drain enough power to require a mess of other systems be shut down, but I always felt that it takes way too long for capital ships to blow one another up, and I feel as though a steady beam of turbolaser could do the job pretty quickly. Really, all one needs to do is get the shields down and the target will very rapidly find themselves having a bad time. There have been enough super-weapons in history that we ought to be able to dig up something that can be stuck a third-of-the-way down a Victory-class with a hold to the tip that can ruin a cruiser's day, if one doesn't mind sacrificing a few things like fighter compliment...
 
The Hunters are... I'll say it; for what they're worth, they're not going to give us much for a whole carrier compliment that an interceptor isn't already going to be doing. Shield generators for the interceptors would be the best route for a fighter upgrade. Beyond that, using the yards there to give us more escorts like the Carrack, Ton Falk or the raider class wouldn't be amiss too; Starfighters might be effective in blowing stuff up but you can't control space with just them.

Alternatively, Diamond-Boron missiles with some broadside cruisers; Pack a few of those bad boys and we'll clear out any fighter pickets in a single salvo.
 
Even if the resource cost wasn't significant, an Executor-class SSD employs a crew of approximately 280,000 people, SSDs are utterly overkill for anything other than big fleet engagements. I know it's a heretical thing to say but double digit kilometer length SSDs have too much dakka. They're utterly impractical for day to day ship work and that means for the most part they'll just be sitting around gathering space dust because the alternative means sending 280,000 to do the grunt work you would otherwise assign to a single ISD.

Prioritizing new fighters over new hulls would result in fewer new warships but it actually wouldn't mean neglecting the fleet's big ships. Remember, most Imperial capital ships have sizeable starfighter complements, which means the introduction of new advanced starfighters will translate out to more dangerous capital ships. Indeed it would be better to think of it less as a choice between building starfighters or new capital ships but more along the lines of building new capitals or improving the fighting strength of existing ones.

When it comes to static defenses I'm a bit lukewarm. If there is a position that is critical and that is under threat of attack I think fortifying it with additional defenses is a good idea but otherwise I think it would be better to spend the yard time building more mobile assets which can be used to carry out a wide variety of tasks in addition to defending a position.

Beyond that, using the yards there to give us more escorts like the Carrack, Ton Falk or the raider class wouldn't be amiss too; Starfighters might be effective in blowing stuff up but you can't control space with just them.

Alternatively, Diamond-Boron missiles with some broadside cruisers; Pack a few of those bad boys and we'll clear out any fighter pickets in a single salvo.

If we're talking about getting particular starships, one that deserves mention is the Victory-class Star Destroyer. The Victory is a lean fighting machine, requiring less crew per meter of ship than an ISD, and being a Clone Wars era design is a warship built for the rigors of war.
 
Victories are basically... well, Imperials that shrunk a bit in the wash. I mean they're alright but they're pretty much the predecessor to the imperial class. And I'd like to point out, the first Imperial Star Destroyers rolled off the slips late clone wars too.
 
I'd argue the opposite, that the Imperials are water logged Victories. VSDs are tough ships with lots of firepower and no real flaws save for the speed issue which the IIs solved. There's nothing objectively bad about them, they're just looked down upon for not being ISDs and as Thrawn would go on to demonstrate, the mini-ISDs can be used to great effect.
 
Against the X-Wing, B-Wing, and Y-Wing I agree however the Interceptor is inferior to the A-Wing which is faster, shielded, and carries missiles as others have stated. It also has a hyperdrive which while not that useful tactically is important strategically for the war the Rebellion then New Republic fought. The only way it exceeds the A-Wing is in cost, where you can buy two Interceptors and have leftover credits for the cost of one A-wing, and reliability, since some of the early A-Wings before the Rebellion was able to establish full factories and mass produce them had reliability issues. Ultimately, I don't think that's enough to make it a better fighter then the A-Wing especially since the missiles mean one A-Wing could potentially kill multiple interceptors before it becomes a dog fight, though will acknowledge it comes the closes of the early TIEs to closing the gap between Alliance and Imperial Starfighters in an affordable manner.

The A-wing is not that much faster, is not as maneuverable and while it has light shields they might as well not even be there against the Interceptors 6 cannons. The Interceptor can be equipped with launchers as well for Concussion missiles or proton torpedos leaving aside they are not perfect kills against fighters. The hyperdrive is also something a Interceptor can take but it is kind of inconsequential to its job which is fleet defense and attack. The A-wing works with the Rebellion's tactics but I think both fighters stack up well with each other in every way except firepower.
 
[X] [Lon] "-lock him away."
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Vaere] Organize a hand over of captured rebel auxiliaries to Commander Cade
[X] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Begin construction of TIE Hunters
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Drill Strike Wing.
 
[X] [Lon] "-lock him away."
[X] [Vaere] Organize a hand over of captured rebel auxiliaries to Commander Cade
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Dispatch Strike Wing to conduct reconnaissance of Hydian Oversector force
 
[X] [Lon] "-lock him away."
[X] [Vaere] Organize a hand over of captured rebel auxiliaries to Commander Cade
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Drill Strike Wing
 
[X] [Lon] "-lock him away."
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Vaere] Dispatch Ultimatum to Ha'Nook
[X] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Drill Strike Wing.
 
[X] [Lon] "-Shot."
[X] [Vaere] Organize a hand over of captured rebel auxiliaries to Commander Cade
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Fleet] Admiral Vaere will ensure that the fleet is loyal to the ideals of the Navy
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Dispatch Strike Wing to conduct reconnaissance of Hydian Oversector force
 
[X] [Lon] "-Shot."
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Vaere] Dispatch Ultimatum to Ha'Nook
[X] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Drill Strike Wing.
 
[X] [Lon] "-Shot."
[X] [Vaere] Organize a hand over of captured rebel auxiliaries to Commander Cade
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Fleet] Admiral Vaere will ensure that the fleet is loyal to the ideals of the Navy
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Dispatch Strike Wing to conduct reconnaissance of Hydian Oversector force
 
[X] [Lon] "-Put on a shuttle back to Fedalle"
[X] [Vaere] Organize a hand over of captured rebel auxiliaries to Commander Cade
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Drill Strike Wing.
 
[X] [Lon] "-lock him away."
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Vaere] Dispatch Ultimatum to Ha'Nook
[X] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Drill Strike Wing.
 
[X] [Lon] "-Put on a shuttle back to Fedalle"
[X] [Vaere] Organize a hand over of captured rebel auxiliaries to Commander Cade
[X] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[X] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[X] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[X] [Yard] Repair Intractable
[X] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[X] [Strike] Drill Strike Wing.
 
This has been silent for awhile, but I was told that votes and constructive posts do not violate the rules, so...

A shiny here. Finished reading a few days ago and I have to say I love this quest. This whole "minor warlord post Endor" thing is something I wanted to see in a quest form for awhile, and this is well written as well. Almost missed out on due to the very first post I saw talking about Operation Cinder and making me think that this is Disney canon. Glad I chose to give it a shot regardless, probably one of the best choices I made on this site.

Now a few questions for Akuz (not tagging deliberately btw)

1. Is either or our damaged ISD's capable of entering hyperspace?
2. Am I correct to assume that most damage done to our ships is fixed automatically offscreen? Specifically I am interested in the status of VSD Ord Canteer and corvette Ashborn.
3. Relatedly, what about our starfighters? Are we getting replacement basic TIEs offscreen from the planets we control?
3a. If yes, can we choose to request that the production of TIE/LN is dropped or reduced to training craft only in exchange for extra TIE/IN? Now, I know that you said that our MC is not doing major changes in fighter doctrine due to her being part of the Big Gun club, but this particular change is in fact something created by the Big gun club, when they finally begrudgingly accepted that 20 years old TIE Fighter is now outdated and had TIE Fighter 2 Electric boogaloo designed as a replacement, with Palps himself planning to phase TIE/LN out of service in favour of TIE/IN.
4. ISDs are supposed to carry considerable amount of ground troops and equipment for them. However, we appear to be lacking those assets. Is this assumption correct or am i misunderstanding something?
5. Are TIE Strikers canon for this quest?

Lastly less of a question and more of suggestion: I know you want to stay clear of mechanics and bookkeeping, but at the same time I think it is important for us to be aware of status of our figher wings. So I would suggest adding information on then to the status panel, with info on how many fighter we have relative to our maximum compliment, and overall distribution of types and models, as well as average skill level of our pilots. With elite units like Strike Wing listed separately.
To illustrate what I mean, here is an example. Note that it deliberately uses way too advanced craft and way too elite pilots. Let's just stay for the sake of argument that this is taken from Vice Admiral Seles' wet dream. :V

Overall fleet's fighter compliment - 110% capacity
Overall fighter/bomber/specialist distribution: 60% fighter/30% bomber/10% specialits
fighter types used: TIE Avenger -40%, TIE hunter - 60%
Bomber types used: Scimitar assault bomber - 75%, TIE punisher 25%
Specialist types used: TIE Phantom - 100%
Average pilot skill level -Veteran

1st Strike wing compliment: 100%
Craft used: TIE Defender 100%
Average pilot skill level -Ace

2nd Strike wing compliment 100%
Craft used Missile boat 100%
Average pilot skill level -Ace

This way we remain aware of how good our fighter situation is, without you having to micromanage the exact numbers and distribution of fighters.


Now to my fellow questers:

1. on the subject of hyperdrive equipped fighters, I have to mention that in Legends even the New Republic, a state carried by hyperspace capable fighters was ultimately forced to design a fighter without a hyperdrive once they grew large enough. So, for us I believe that for now we should keep most of our craft close to imperial standard ideally with more TIE/IN's possibly with shields once it is IC to consider the idea and switch over when we have both the industrial capacity and an IC reason (probably drawn form Strike Wing's heroics)
2. On SSD's. First and foremost, while it is not unheard of for a Warlord to built an SSD from scratch, it was extremely rare, the only example that comes to mind is the Night Hammer. And that was done by one of the most powerful warlords in Legends. other similarly powerful warlord was willing to go to great lengths to secure an under construction Executor for himself which to me implies that building one from scratch was way too expensive for the guy. And he had much greater territory and resources then our 2 planets. In fact, I am frankly dubious of our ability to even crew and maintain a fully operational Star Dreadnaught if we were to somehow get one. Hell, even the smallest of Imperial SSD's, Bellator, at his "mere" 7,2 kms might be too much for us right now. In the future, if we manage to secure more territory, I would not be opposed to getting an SSD, ideally a smaller one like the aforementioned Bellator. But for now it would be more of a detriment then an asset.

Lastly, the vote:
A short commentary on the votes made:
Lon- not a big fan of executing prisoners just because they are no longer useful.
Vaere - secure the gains and FUCK Operation cinder
Fleet - pick up the low hanging fruit and FUCK Operation Cinder
Yard - not sure on this one. For now, picking up the ship that 100% cannot be moved to Ganthel to be fixed there and not picking fighters because again, Gatnhel may be a better place for that facility.
Strike- intel is good and FUCK. Operation. Cinder.



[x] [Lon] "-lock him away."
[x] [Vaere] Secure her position with the Skakoan establishment.
[x] [Vaere] Organize a hand over of captured rebel auxiliaries to Commander Cade
[x] [Fleet] The First Bormea will be dispatching forces to secure Ganthel.
[x] [Fleet] Fortify friendly systems against Operation Cinder
[x] [Yard] Complete Vivisector's refit and crew her with loyalists
[x] [Strike] Use Strike Wing to disrupt Operation Cinder
[x] [Strike] Dispatch Strike Wing to conduct reconnaissance of Hydian Oversector force


Ceterum censeo Operation Cinder esse delendam
 
This has been silent for awhile, but I was told that votes and constructive posts do not violate the rules, so...

A shiny here. Finished reading a few days ago and I have to say I love this quest. This whole "minor warlord post Endor" thing is something I wanted to see in a quest form for awhile, and this is well written as well. Almost missed out on due to the very first post I saw talking about Operation Cinder and making me think that this is Disney canon. Glad I chose to give it a shot regardless, probably one of the best choices I made on this site.

Now a few questions for Akuz (not tagging deliberately btw)

1. Is either or our damaged ISD's capable of entering hyperspace?
2. Am I correct to assume that most damage done to our ships is fixed automatically offscreen? Specifically I am interested in the status of VSD Ord Canteer and corvette Ashborn.
3. Relatedly, what about our starfighters? Are we getting replacement basic TIEs offscreen from the planets we control?
3a. If yes, can we choose to request that the production of TIE/LN is dropped or reduced to training craft only in exchange for extra TIE/IN? Now, I know that you said that our MC is not doing major changes in fighter doctrine due to her being part of the Big Gun club, but this particular change is in fact something created by the Big gun club, when they finally begrudgingly accepted that 20 years old TIE Fighter is now outdated and had TIE Fighter 2 Electric boogaloo designed as a replacement, with Palps himself planning to phase TIE/LN out of service in favour of TIE/IN.
4. ISDs are supposed to carry considerable amount of ground troops and equipment for them. However, we appear to be lacking those assets. Is this assumption correct or am i misunderstanding something?
5. Are TIE Strikers canon for this quest?

1) Yes

2) Yes, the logistical and maintenance details of most stuff below Capital Ship scale will be abstracted away as long as there's a reasonable explanation. (If you had no safe harbours suddenly it would become an issue)

3) You're getting a trickle. If you were taking large losses it would then rise above the level of abstraction and you'd have to deal with it.
-a)The line change over is effectively frozen in place, so at the moment, as long as nothing changes your frontline TIE/ln squadrons will slowly be replaced with TIE/int equipped ones and the remainder being shipped to system garrisons or mothballed.

4) Nope, you have normal Stormtrooper complements and landing forces. It's just hard to take a handful of Star Destroyer Stormtrooper detachments and Naval Infantry against fortified army units that outnumber them by an order of magnitude without levelling the whole ass planet (Which arguably you did in some areas)

5) Strikers are used for planetary garrisons and are thus below the level of abstraction for Vaere.

Lastly less of a question and more of suggestion: I know you want to stay clear of mechanics and bookkeeping, but at the same time I think it is important for us to be aware of status of our figher wings. So I would suggest adding information on then to the status panel, with info on how many fighter we have relative to our maximum compliment, and overall distribution of types and models, as well as average skill level of our pilots. With elite units like Strike Wing listed separately.
To illustrate what I mean, here is an example. Note that it deliberately uses way too advanced craft and way too elite pilots. Let's just stay for the sake of argument that this is taken from Vice Admiral Seles' wet dream. :V

Overall fleet's fighter compliment - 110% capacity
Overall fighter/bomber/specialist distribution: 60% fighter/30% bomber/10% specialits
fighter types used: TIE Avenger -40%, TIE hunter - 60%
Bomber types used: Scimitar assault bomber - 75%, TIE punisher 25%
Specialist types used: TIE Phantom - 100%
Average pilot skill level -Veteran

1st Strike wing compliment: 100%
Craft used: TIE Defender 100%
Average pilot skill level -Ace

2nd Strike wing compliment 100%
Craft used Missile boat 100%
Average pilot skill level -Ace

This way we remain aware of how good our fighter situation is, without you having to micromanage the exact numbers and distribution of fighters.

The status panel is something I've been meaning to update and I'll update eventually when I'm not lazy and distracted because I've been planning to sinlge out your elite formations (Like Strike Wing) when they appear.

>: V

(This quest is by no ways dead, I just appear to have lied about "rapid turn around", so there should be an update within the next couple weeks)

-

Also: as a matter of thread policy if you have questions, it's perfectly fine to @ me
 
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1. on the subject of hyperdrive equipped fighters, I have to mention that in Legends even the New Republic, a state carried by hyperspace capable fighters was ultimately forced to design a fighter without a hyperdrive once they grew large enough.
It just now occurred to me that, umm, well previously there has been some discussion upon this topic, and the prices listed in various support material suggest that hyperdrives and not all that desperately prohibitive in cost. So I am thinking that perhaps it is not so much of an issue precisely because The Empire did not invest in them. If there is some limited-production component (this is Star Wars, so "they can only build it on this one planet" doesn't seem unusual to me...) then it may be that trying to equip the entirety of the fleet with hyperdrive-capable fighters would have created a scarcity which would have made the price prohibitive if they had actually done it, while leaving roleplaying games free to give their players hyperdrives at about the same time that they give them space ships, because what is the point of Staw Wars if you can't go planet-hopping?! (hyperbole, I do actually respect the idea of a single-planet campaign...)
 
It just now occurred to me that, umm, well previously there has been some discussion upon this topic, and the prices listed in various support material suggest that hyperdrives and not all that desperately prohibitive in cost. So I am thinking that perhaps it is not so much of an issue precisely because The Empire did not invest in them. If there is some limited-production component (this is Star Wars, so "they can only build it on this one planet" doesn't seem unusual to me...) then it may be that trying to equip the entirety of the fleet with hyperdrive-capable fighters would have created a scarcity which would have made the price prohibitive if they had actually done it, while leaving roleplaying games free to give their players hyperdrives at about the same time that they give them space ships, because what is the point of Staw Wars if you can't go planet-hopping?! (hyperbole, I do actually respect the idea of a single-planet campaign...)

Oh yeah, all the evidence points towards equipping hyperdrives at scale for a polity that has 12 inhabited million systems simply isn't sustainable at that scale, not within a reasonable timescale. Not if you want numbers of craft deployed rapidly and cheaply.

If you had a generations, a doctrine of smaller numbers of highly trained pilots with high quality craft, you could have them all with hyperdrives. But because we usually look at things at tactical or strategic scales the full weight of that doesn't really come in as it does at the operational or grand strategic scales.

Giving hero ships and units hyperdrives is perfectly fine, and even affordable to a degree, it's just not super probable to do that on a galactic scale. The realities of controlling a galaxy verses running a galactic insurgency are quite different. The Thrawn campaign basically beat that into the New Republic's head I think
 
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