I don't think keeping the exaltation would work thematically. (Yozi) Cosmic Principle basically means you stop being an exalt and start being a yozi. A primordial cosmic principle would do the same you stop being a exalt and start being a primordial. In another sense you stop needing an exaltation because you have out grown it and let it go to serve another. If you are attached to the perks of the exaltation then you should just create devil tiger charms that emulate them. Considering your origins as a GSP it would fit as in theme for the newly created primoridal.
Memoirs of a Human Flashlight Thread 2: Now with more Arguments! [Exalted/Worm]
- Thread starter Golden Lark
- Start date
-
- Tags
- exalted (white wolf) worm
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Hmmm, good points... Thanks. Now if only the muse would hold still...
Noctum
Dual Paradox
- Location
- Under the Skies Above
Not quite. It's all but stated in the books that the Neverborn can reincarnate, but don't because:
1) They're too big and powerful for Lethte to forcibly reincarnate them
and
2) Are too angry and bitter about their defeat to let go and pass on. If they do accept that they've died and give up their grudge against the living, then they could pass on/reincarnate.
Nothing stating that they have to become Neverborn.
That said, there is nothing the immortal fears more than dying.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Ah right, forgot that. Yes, all ghosts are explicitly stated to be able to pass into Lethe whenever they want to... the Neverborn are simply too blinded by their own pain and rage to do so. An Exalt who went Devil-Tiger wouldn't have that problem, especially if they died in a world with a different system for death.
(Headcanon: A Solar can learn/develop Heretical Charms via Primordial Principle Emulation, and can even substitute certain thematically appropriate Solar Charms for the ordinary prerequisites, such as Solar Circle Sorcery for THotD-T instead of Sorcerous Enlightenment of (Yozi). (The Solar would still need an appropriate First (Yozi) Excellency and a Shintai to learn THotD-T, of course.) Also, a Solar who learns The Face of the Titans is freed from the Great Curse, and instead gains Limit and suffers Torment as an Infernal does.)
That's actually untrue. A Devil-Tiger cannot create their own (Primordial) Cosmic Principle.
What can happen is that if they get killed, the next guy to get their Exaltation gets access to their personal Charm Tree, and can get (Devil-Tiger) Cosmic Principle.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Chloe Sullivan
Subdefective
- Location
- 1630 Revello Drive, Sunnydale CA
FTFY
The level of BS of the Salinan Working is probably more that sufficient for a temporary expansion of Lethe.
Elder Solars and Primordials can carve their very names and desires into the Shinma.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Like I said, GLORIOUS SOLAR BULLSHIT. Miracle Shells are made through Shinmaic Calibration, a Solar Charm. (Scarily enough, it doesn't need Essence 10; Charms which DO need Essence 10 are EVEN MORE BULLSHIT.) I have not seen any Primordial Charm which would produce a similar effect, though it would most likely be a She Who Lives In Her Name Charm building off of Constructive Convergence of Principles in the same way as Shinmaic Calibration builds off of Wyld-Shaping Technique.
EDIT: Speaking of the Salinan Working, how many of the trials has Taylor passed, and when can we expect her to initiate herself into Terrestrial Circle Sorcery? Demon of the First Circle is incredibly useful, and the lack of ambient Essence on Earth Bet makes it much harder for the demon to regain Essence...
Last edited:
wkz
Probably on the other side of the world from you
Donno. For all we know GL posted the latest chapter in a hurry, and haven't updated SV yet.
Mechanis
Confirmed Techpriest
- Location
- Deep Net
ftfy.
anyway, my question is, how long is it going to take before Taylor is forced to out herself as an omega-level Bullshit 12 cape?
"whoops, I accidentally Behemoth?"
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
"Make A Thing Get Done"? Seriously?
Mechanis
Confirmed Techpriest
- Location
- Deep Net
my vocabularynator failed on me!
but anyway, I wonder if Sorcery even works in an Essence-starved environment like Bet.
it'd be a bit embarrassing (not to mention somewhat inconvenient) to ring up a Summoned First Circle only to have the thing pop back to Malfeas (or just straight-up out of existence) the moment it left the summoning circle or got more than ten feet from Taylor or something.
but anyway, I wonder if Sorcery even works in an Essence-starved environment like Bet.
it'd be a bit embarrassing (not to mention somewhat inconvenient) to ring up a Summoned First Circle only to have the thing pop back to Malfeas (or just straight-up out of existence) the moment it left the summoning circle or got more than ten feet from Taylor or something.
Kylar
In Training Forever
- Location
- Canada
Baring Solar Circle Sorcery (ei, the highest level that is waaaaaaaaay off in the future, and maybe not even then)?
She isn't.
The closest thing to statwise we have in Exalted to an Endbringer is the Viator of Nullspace (amusingly, its very similar to Behemoth). And the Viator would rip Taylor in two as she is, and as she will be for a long time. Like, I'm reasonably certain I can throw the Viator as written at my players (who are about E5 and 600XP into the game and are moderately combat focused Celestials) and get a party wipe. Endbringers are in someways tougher. Yes, there are specific Solar combinations that might be able to do it much more easily, but a lot of that is stuff Taylor doesn't have favored (Survival is the massive one biting her in the ass here, going by Exalted canon) and another chunk of it is best described as gaming the system. Its also a long, long list of specific charms. The Endbringers are fairly nuts even by Exalted standards (especially with some of the WoG).
Don't me wrong, Taylor is powerful, but Worm has things like the Ash Beast and Nilblog running around. She's 'only' about Numbers Man tier bullshit in comparison.
(On the more general sorcery thing, I note you need to know what demons are and which one you want to call before you can summon anything, all other difficulties aside. That information might be just a touch hard in the Wormverse to acquire.)
Last edited:
Scify
It always starts with a lighthouse.
...?
I'll admit, my Exalted knowledge is pretty weak, but isn't Survival all about handling harsh natural conditions? How would it help her fight the Viator of Nullspace or Behemoth?
- Location
- Singapore
Presumably, Element-Protecting Prana. Which is the charm expansion to Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit that lets you swim in lava. While naked.
Scify
It always starts with a lighthouse.
A similar discussion has come up a few times over in AS (though, obviously, with Alchemical Charms, so I might just be missing a difference in functioning): would Charms like that help you survive directed attacks, even if they're thrown by non-Essence users?
- Location
- Singapore
Environmental effects only, I think. So if its stuff like sword duels on a lava fall or fighting in the nude in the deepesr winter, sure. But I don't think things like Terrestrial Animas are blocked, though don't quote me on that. I forget.
If its a deliberate attack you parry it or dodge it. If the attack causes actual environmental effects, those should be deflected.
(*Lights @Shyft signal*)
- Location
- Gladstone, OR
the exact charm name escapes me, but i think it was included in Glories Most High: The Unconquered Sun as an upgrade off of Eternal Elemental Harmony, if I remember correctly- no matter what, it's in that tree.
Anyway, an overview of the relevant charms.
Hardship Surviving Mendicant Spirit:
This charm is a really wordy penalty negator. Actual survival actions rarely get above difficulty 2, (or are even unrolled, requiring only survival dots to pass). Regardless, this Charm removes penalties caused by environments- a blizzard, fog, insects, etc. It doesn't stop damage.
Element Resisting Prana:
This is the 'Actually Resist Environmental Damage' Charm. Enviro-damage is based on any mechanic that has a Trauma Rating, which includes bonfires, blistering sun, and the Silent Wind. It's Essence 3. It does NOT protect against active hostile intent. Adorjan can only hurt you with her wind by actively casting it at you with a specific charm (I have no idea if she has one but let's assume so.)
More down to earth, Dragonblooded Animas are NOT covered by ERP. If a fire aspect holds on and BURNS, you done get burned.
Steadfast Elemental Emperor Stance:
Here's the Glories Most High One- it basically removes the 'deliberate action' clause from environmental hazards. If I have charm or spell that says "I do this to you, and it has Trauma X, Y Damage, Z Penalty", SERS ignores it utterly.
The important part is the 'I Do This To You'.
If the effect was "I create a hazard, and then it's just there and persisting." You would only need ERP.
Hope this helps!
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Sorcery works anywhere the shinma hold sway; the Primordials wrote the principles of sorcery into the shinmaic substrata of existence.
Past Life memories, perhaps?
Also, is Taylor going to learn Terrible Sun King Condemnation (Presence 5, Essence 4; prerequisites: Enemy-Castigating Solar Judgement, which requires Presence 1, Essence 3 and any Presence Excellency.)?
Her best Charms only have their full effect on creatures of darkness, and nobody in Earth Bet is one naturally, due to the lack of the Unconquered Sun. Ghost-Eating Technique should suffice to finish Zion off, but hurting him will be much easier if Taylor declares him a creature of darkness.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Um, no? GET's entire point is that anything it kills stays down. It doesn't care what the laws of physics say - the universe breaks before GET fails.
Except that's not what the Charm says. GET works against spirits, which includes the Primordials, but because it works against spirits it does not work against things like mortals and other beings whose souls are sheltered behind a physical body. Besides, you missed my point; if GET works, so does Spirit Cutting Attack (I had the name wrong the first time), so there's no need to pay a surcharge for a Charm that grants a Holy effect that does the exact same thing of turning the damage type of an attack into Aggravated.
Now, if they did things like 'lower enemy DVs' or did something useful that becomes more powerful against Creatures of Darkness that'd be something else, but at 1 mote SCA is no more expensive than dedicated 'do Aggravated damage to Creatures of Darkness' Charms and if GET is intended to be used and will be useful it's a Charm you are going to buy as a prerequisite, so why buy Holy Charms, which are in an entirely different tree anyway?
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
We have no idea just what Zion is capable of; Spirit-Cutting Attack may not be enough. Ghost-Eating Technique is the best way to make sure he stays down, and each mote drained by GET allows one SCA at no cost. Not to mention that Holy social-fu is unnatural mental influence and costs more willpower to resist vs. creatures of darkness.