Hello there, and welcome to my home! Do you want some cake and tea?
(SV Forum policies apply here. Unlike the Homu-Home, this is indeed a place for serious PMMM-related debates. Keep it cool and civil, guys. Remember, attack arguments, ideas and positions, not the people behind them.)
So, to give this thread something to actually bite it's head off on PMMM:
When John Smith's ...novel-size piece of fiction came to the tribunal, one of the hateful things critiqued for it was "trash compacting the souls of prisoner girls".
Yet, when councillors were asked for alternative in tribunal discussion, they were never provided.
How should the regular police and child management agencies handle the misdeeds and murders of the magical girls?
When John Smith's ...novel-size piece of fiction came to the tribunal, one of the hateful things critiqued for it was "trash compacting the souls of prisoner girls".
That's a pretty good question. I'd love to say something along the lines of 'being what amounts to a child soldier means that they should be treated as an adult', but then you get cases like Nagisa and Yuma...
So, to give this thread something to actually bite it's head off on PMMM:
When John Smith's ...novel-size piece of fiction came to the tribunal, one of the hateful things critiqued for it was "trash compacting the souls of prisoner girls".
Yet, when councillors were asked for alternative in tribunal discussion, they were never provided.
How should the regular police and child management agencies handle the misdeeds and murders of the magical girls?
They shouldn't. Puella Magi are too far from human to be handled by those organizations. There needs to be a group dedicated to negotiation with Magi (as they can destroy most military forces, forget the police, with relative ease), and a special task force of Magi or a specialized military force for eliminating any that start attacking human civilians. Killing other Magi...frankly, it's not something the government can afford to (or should attempt to) regulate.
I do think both Magi and the police might object to someone being above the law, however enforced, just because they said "I wish to live!", Higure.
Additionally, by making the group you propositioned out of magi, it still puts them under the government - assuming they're legal to employ.
It believe such job would be civilian and thus police job, rather than military, for the latter would mean that the country is in a state of war should the girls be drafted.
Additionally, the solution of "sic a team of elite fighters" on any magi who commit misdeed, whether shoplift or murder, might be disproportionate, for I believe many would come without a fight as they do live in society.
Doesn't matter. They're above it by virtue of being able to kill the entire police force on their own...formally recognizing that to prevent said slaughter is reasonable.
Additionally, by making the group you propositioned out of magi, it still puts them under the government - assuming they're legal to employ.
Working with the government is not the same thing as being subject to it.
It believe such job would be civilian and thus police job, rather than military, for the latter would mean that the country is in a state of war should the girls be drafted.
Frankly, I'm treating "Berserk Magus" as a natural disaster, rather than as a matter of crime, war, or terrorism. The (militarily equipped) Puella Magi Management Force would only be brought in because no one else can address the issue.
You'd have to have the police force equipped and trained to be equivalent to a military branch, otherwise, and no one wants local (often corrupt) cops to carry assault rifles and drive tanks.
Additionally, the solution of "sic a team of elite fighters" on any magi who commit misdeed, whether shoplift or murder, might be disproportionate, for I believe many would come without a fight as they do live in society.
If it isn't a matter of (human) murder or mass destruction, they're ignored. Shoplifting Magi are something you Insure against, not something you call the PMMF in for. If you have an issue with being targeted repeatedly and to significant detriment, you can request to have a security detail put in place, but otherwise...don't risk a city block over a stolen TV.
As for them coming quietly...I doubt it. Frankly, people come quietly because they know there's no point in running (excepting crimes of passion and certain outlying cases). Magi can and will get away if they run from or fight the police, so only the ones who were suffering from temporary insanity or some such are likely to turn themselves in; those girls can walk to the police station themselves.
You don't have to be insane to agree to come with police quietly. Not all the force law enforcement can offer is base manhandling, and there's a lot of things one can do that cannot be defeated by punching it really, really hard.
For instance, having your parents fined for what you do - the standard with shoplifters who are someone else's responsibilities, having your banking funds arrested, having you be seen and known socially as attacking the police, requiring teachers to cancel class due danger when you show up due being shown as dangerous lunatic....just because you can wrestle a child psychiatrist to the ground doesn't get you clear bill of mental health.
Furthermore, magical girls are inherently portrayed as heroes of justice to contractors - it is quite possible that they do not want to fight the police, who have been generally portrayed to them as noble, even if they're not perfect beacons of virtue themselves.
On the worse end of scale, there is the issue of soul gem corruption pointed at in tLoIM. Should you capture a magical girl accused of murder, there's the issue of providing them with grief seeds for the duration of their trial, and sentence should they be found guilty. An agreement could work as long as there's enough to provide for everyone. However, should there be a shortage of them due magical girls successfully slaying enough witches and familiars an urgent issue is forced.
Not giving them to the ones awaiting trial and prisoners is essentially "torture and murder for being accused", which would manage to violate laws against death penalty, Geneva convection, and OSHA safety guidelines at the same time.
Not giving them to the ones willing to work is essentially "let the poor veterans starve and die", incentive for them to turn to crime and overall working against cooperation.
Feeding other people to familiars to provide for either is likely to run into provisions against suicide in most places at best.
A society would be forced to ask: Which of those 3 is morally best? Or is there another option?
PS: I think having a government job does qualify as being part of it, myself.
Maybe a first step into regulating things would be the creation of an universal code of laws that allows cooperation or coexistence between the normal people and the magical girls. A Codex Magiarum would help to at least know which girls are most unruly.
How much you all bet Kyubey would undermine any attempt at trying to bring Magical Girls to public awareness to begin, or failing that, make contracts with girls more prone to violence or more emotionally unstable thought processes to make the whole thing a clusterfuck of despair and nigh impossible for us mortals to deal with effectively/non-violently?
Hell, how could we non-fatally (my key words here; because I need not explain why the public would be in uproar for the government killing a child, a forced child soldier no less) take a magical girl down? Kyubey has admitted their human body is just a shell, and physical damage to that is just moot so long as their Soul Gem remains intact. So, tranquilizers are out. So, what now? Flashbangs?
You don't have to be insane to agree to come with police quietly. Not all the force law enforcement can offer is base manhandling, and there's a lot of things one can do that cannot be defeated by punching it really, really hard.
For instance, having your parents fined for what you do - the standard with shoplifters who are someone else's responsibilities, having your banking funds arrested, having you be seen and known socially as attacking the police, requiring teachers to cancel class due danger when you show up due being shown as dangerous lunatic....just because you can wrestle a child psychiatrist to the ground doesn't get you clear bill of mental health.
These threats are a lot more potent when the girl in question gives a fuck. With the exceptions of noobs and people like Mami (who wouldn't be breaking the law without good reason anyway), Magi don't need to worry about things like social rep or employability: They're a bit too busy trying to stay alive too waste time and energy on those things.
Furthermore, magical girls are inherently portrayed as heroes of justice to contractors - it is quite possible that they do not want to fight the police, who have been generally portrayed to them as noble, even if they're not perfect beacons of virtue themselves.
They're unlikely to be committing crimes if they care that much. Besides, even if they don't want to fight cops, they have the mobility to escape them fairly easily.
On the worse end of scale, there is the issue of soul gem corruption pointed at in tLoIM. Should you capture a magical girl accused of murder, there's the issue of providing them with grief seeds for the duration of their trial, and sentence should they be found guilty. An agreement could work as long as there's enough to provide for everyone. However, should there be a shortage of them due magical girls successfully slaying enough witches and familiars an urgent issue is forced.
Not giving them to the ones awaiting trial and prisoners is essentially "torture and murder for being accused", which would manage to violate laws against death penalty, Geneva convection, and OSHA safety guidelines at the same time.
Not giving them to the ones willing to work is essentially "let the poor veterans starve and die", incentive for them to turn to crime and overall working against cooperation.
Feeding other people to familiars to provide for either is likely to run into provisions against suicide in most places at best.
A society would be forced to ask: Which of those 3 is morally best? Or is there another option?
If the girl walked in to confess and turn herself in, she can be allowed to hunt until her trial. If found guilty...perhaps some kind of protocol for supervised Witch Hunts?
If she put up a fight...you don't try to capture someone who can keep moving and killing while missing limbs and (potentially) her head. You attempt to disable her long enough to blow the Soul Gem, because a prison can't really hold an unwilling Magus for long.
As for death penalty, Geneva conventions, and OSHA safety guidelines: Those apply to humans. Variants would need to be created to accommodate the special needs and risks of Puella Magi.
PS: I think having a government job does qualify as being part of it, myself.
Being part of the government doesn't mean being subject to it...nor does assisting it, seeing as plenty of groups will assist foreign nations in enforcing laws. You're subject to the government because you're a citizen, not because you work for it.
Indeed, I assume they give a fuck, like most people do. If not for social responsibilities, then for the potential of group teamups and helping to ease the witchfyre burning their ass.
I do not believe people can be divided straight into criminals and lawful people. Different but overlapping moral codices, guilt, temptation....If crimes were not considered mistakes with time by the people making them, I'd expect we'd have a lot higher recidivism rate.
And yeah, they can run away, but they can't run towards non-magi things they want to see.
If the girl walked in to confess and turn herself in, she can be allowed to hunt until her trial. If found guilty...perhaps some kind of protocol for supervised Witch Hunts?
This, though...is an interesting idea. Enforcement and child soldier and failure from unknown/pre-emptied hunting ground, sure, but it has an illusion of accommodation even if you would probably find that prison girls witch out from hunt when they find nothing at ten times the rate of free-range ones as free-range ones pre-clean their territory while looking like heroes of saving before their scheduled release times.
Well-presented, it could sell the nation on it for at least 5 years. Enough to make it another administration's problem!
If she put up a fight...you don't try to capture someone who can keep moving and killing while missing limbs and (potentially) her head. You attempt to disable her long enough to blow the Soul Gem, because a prison can't really hold an unwilling Magus for long.
As for death penalty, Geneva conventions, and OSHA safety guidelines: Those apply to humans. Variants would need to be created to accommodate the special needs and risks of Puella Magi.
You'd have to have the police force equipped and trained to be equivalent to a military branch, otherwise, and no one wants local (often corrupt) cops to carry assault rifles and drive tanks.
Interesting that you should say that. I mean, leaving aside the (often very well-equipped) special forces, like SWAT and Germany's GSG 9, France exists. See, it has a National Gendarmerie - and actual branch of their armed forces - that forms one of their police organizations. And while the Gendarmerie doesn't appear to have tanks, they do have armored cars that have 90mm cannons.
