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Magna Graecia: Victory's Children (A City State Quest)

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[X] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status.

Let us not break an agreement least the value of our word be decreased
Adhoc vote count started by Void Stalker on Apr 12, 2018 at 12:44 PM, finished with 59 posts and 21 votes.
  • [x] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status and seize the whole of the Messapii northwest, placing it in the hands of the loyal Peuketii for safekeeping[Harpos will feel that he has been adequately rewarded for his efforts].
    [X] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status.
    [X] USER MOTION - Eretria shall supply Daxtus with 10 Talents per year in support to sustain his war with Taras, and a significant hint that we really do quite like Ostaron and maybe if he could see his way to doing something about Arsenon we'd be really happy...
    [X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
    [X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
    [X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
    [X] Allow the alliance with Gnatia to lapse under Arsenon and accept his rule. We must not get entangled in this web while war still looms in Sicily and Italia.
    [X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
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[x] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status and seize the whole of the Messapii northwest, placing it in the hands of the loyal Peuketii for safekeeping[Harpos will feel that he has been adequately rewarded for his efforts].​
 
I, Bryzos the Psiloi, do vote the following:

[X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.

Because really, do we really want to break a treaty sworn to your gods? After we had agreed that it was your gods who had Antipater killed?
 
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I was asked what Daxtus would do if you seized the lands:
  • Longterm alienation from Eretria
  • He would see it as oathbreaking
  • He would try to raid into Peuketii or Eretrian lands (although not significantly)
 
It has been a cornerstone of the reputation of Eretria that we do not break a sworn peace first. It is not at all worth sacrificing that for the sake of some rocky highlands.
 
We'll have enough money to reward Harpos once this war is over. Due to not being able to build anything during the stone wall construction, we should accumulate around 400 Talents by the end of 712. To this we will add many taken from Krotone, Lokris and Syracuse with our home front secured!
 
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I'd rather have Gnatia as the shining example to the other Iapyges that yeah, this is the reward being a loyal ally to Eretria gets you, rather than demonstrating that the end state of dealing with Eretria forever faithfully is being ground under our bootheel.
 
[X] [User Motion] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status. And send Daxtus a payment of 10 Talents for the duration of his war against Taras.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
I'd rather have Gnatia as the shining example to the other Iapyges that yeah, this is the reward being a loyal ally to Eretria gets you, rather than demonstrating that the end state of dealing with Eretria forever faithfully is being ground under our bootheel.
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Or you could do that whilst gaining more troops and tribute and keeping Daxtus out of Gnatian politics, instead of allowing him more influence over our southern sphere, along the coastline he wants badly.
 
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Cavalier said:
While money is always useful in war, is 10 talents a year enough to make a real difference under the circumstances?
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It is what I pegged useful support at. Daxtus would know how to use it best. He is after all dependent on the financial support of the fractious Messapii cities and having an independent income can allow him to make decisions separately.

Void Stalker said:
@Cetashwayo What would the view be of other Greek cities if we occupied the land in light of the peace we swore in the sacred grove of Artemis?
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Greeks break truces all the time. It's likely to affect your relationship with the Messapii really badly, though, and it makes you just another opportunistic Hellene trucebreaker to them.
 
So the question is do we want a permanent enemy in the messapii? Or do we want to risk them losing to Taras who is hostile to us.

@Cetashwayo if we would use our army to help the messapii secure further land in the war vs taras could they then give up the land the Peuketii want?
 
Void Stalker said:
So the question is do we want a permanent enemy in the messapii? Or do we want to risk them losing to Taras who is hostile to us.

@Cetashwayo if we would use our army to help the messapii secure further land in the war vs taras could they then give up the land the Peuketii want?
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You are not going to get involved in the war, because a. you'll lose and b. you're busy in Sicily.
 
It's my position that Gnatia as the ideal of what serving Eretria loyally gets you is far more valuable than the 3.5 Talents a turn them being tributary would gain us.
 
Breaking the peace with Daxtus is a bad idea for a lot of reasons. That land isn't very useful to us, we have other ways of rewarding Harpos ahead of us, and a peaceful southern border is damn important. I'm ready to rule out giving Harpos the land, and am set on tossing cash at Daxtus.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
It's my position that Gnatia as the ideal of what serving Eretria loyally gets you is far more valuable than the 3.5 Talents a turn them being tributary would gain us.
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I'm willing to flip my vote but it would need to be to a winning one to avoid breaking our word. Establishing ourselves as true to our deals with the locals should give us an edge in negotiations with them down the line.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
It's my position that Gnatia as the ideal of what serving Eretria loyally gets you is far more valuable than the 3.5 Talents a turn them being tributary would gain us.
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But at the same time your vote costs Gnatian lives, is complex and more likely to leave a potential claimant alive.

Whilst leaving them an ally is possible, why shouldn't we make them tributaries? They'll still have freedoms but we'll also get more troops and coin.
 
[X] Allow the alliance with Gnatia to lapse under Arsenon and accept his rule. We must not get entangled in this web while war still looms in Sicily and Italia.
[X] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status.
[X] [User Motion] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status. And send Daxtus a payment of 10 Talents for the duration of his war against Taras.

I don't really feel like breaking an oath-sworn truce for little gain. I still feel bad about breaking our alliance with Taras to be honest.

I'm fine with any of the above, since I don't believe it's absolutely necessary to intervene with Gnatia now. However, if we do intervene we should demand some concessions from Ostaron. We're helping him claim the town afterall.
 
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