Magna Graecia: A City State Quest

Erandil · Sep 24, 2016

Versharl said:
I'm fairly certain Cetashwayo said that metics do serve in the army, just not as hoplites.

And I am pretty sure the opposite is true...

Captain Hunt · Sep 24, 2016

[X] Delegated: A single head strategos, two deputy strategoi, and seven more subordinate strategoi.

[X] Herodion: Deliberate, methodical destruction of Azetion's ability to resist. Construction of a circumvallation wall around the city using the trade gangs and military slaves. Use the Peuketii to maintain the blockade during off-season with cavalry. Use the opportunity to impress the fearsome power of Eretria on the Dauni and Messapii. [6 months Military Upkeep, -20 talents for a wall].

[X] Make it challenging, but not brutal, and open it up older men who can distinguish themselves [+44 new Ekdromoi].

[X] Every five years.

[X] The Proboulos should have power over every segment of the boule, regardless of what slate they were on before taking office.

[X] Herodion's Cavalry Veterans, his 'Kleos Exoria' (Ancient Greek for honoured exiles), will teach the cavalrymen of Eretria the skills they have learned from their 10 years ahorse in battle. [-10 Aristocratic opinion].

[X] Stone Quarry [-140 Talents, unlocks Lyceum, Stone Wall, provides domestic source of stone (DOES NOT PROVIDE TRADABLE STONE RESOURCE). One year to build.]

McLuvin · Sep 24, 2016

Versharl said:
I'm fairly certain Cetashwayo said that metics do serve in the army, just not as hoplites.

My mistake then

Ironanvil1 · Sep 24, 2016

Publicola said:
I must confess, as pleased as I am that Stone Quarry won... I'm actually kind of disappointed that more people didn't go for the Olive Farm. It takes five turns/years to bear fruit, but only one turn to actually plant the trees, so it makes sense to start it as early as possible. I do hope that olive production will be our priority next turn, even more than the processional road.

Wasn't that the same slave merchant who ran for xenoparakletor by promising to make 'best deals'? Now I'm kind of interested to see what our new proboulos will propose, and how it relates to our beloved ancient Greek Trump analogue...

I'm also bothered that so many people voted for Mikelotos' User Motion (re: cavalry training). I'm all for getting a better equipped and better trained army, but that -10 Aristocratic Opinion is fatal. At the end of this turn, our city's support by the aristocratic class will have plummeted to a mere 50 (!), with Hoplite Opinion not far behind at 65. Our city's policies are (far) more attractive to metics (who aren't even citizens!) and aktimonics (who own no property and pay little to no taxes) than to the two groups who actually pay the bills. Do you want our ekklesia to be overthrown? Because this is how you get a Grecian democracy tossed out on its ear.

We need to pay a lot closer attention to our Civic Order & Relations, and we need to make sure over the next several turns we make an effort to reach out and appease the aristocrats and hoplites of our city.

Basically any decision of any consequence will piss off someone. Chasing the numbers is highly gamey and frankly boring.

EDIT: Why would you think Metics wouldn't fight?

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Sep 24, 2016

Erandil said:
And I am pretty sure the opposite is true...

Nope.

Cetashwayo said:
The new metics will serve as psilloi, yes.

Cetashwayo said:
Well, I mean the metics are fighting with you too.

Cetashwayo said:
The Metics fight in the army.

Cetashwayo said:
Metics do fight for the city. They aren't exempted from conscription and pay a poll tax. They are however not able to own land or property.

McLuvin · Sep 24, 2016

Well I feel stupid...
Sorry everyone, next time I will consult better sources than my memory

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Sep 24, 2016

It's okay to be wrong.

After all, they're not hoplites. They don't do any real fighting anyway.

Susano · Sep 24, 2016

They're our cheerleader squad on the field

Professor Vesca · Sep 24, 2016

*Re-reads entire thread*

Oh, my, gawsh, I just realized something.

Eretria worships a female hoplite and a male poet/lyracist/healer guy as their patron gods. Is that normal?

Susano · Sep 24, 2016

Professor Vesca said:
*Re-reads entire thread*

Oh, my, gawsh, I just realized something.

Eretria worships a female hoplite and a male poet/lyracist/healer guy as their patron gods. Is that normal?

So do many poleis. We just have them married because, well, why not?

McLuvin · Sep 24, 2016

Pallas Athene dominates more than just the battlefield, let Apollon tell ya

Professor Vesca · Sep 24, 2016

McLuvin said:
Pallas Athene dominates more than just the battlefield, let Apollon tell ya

Well, yeah. She has numerous aspects that she presides over. She is also the goddess of the city, thus the name Pallas athenai.

Deadly Snark · Sep 24, 2016

Godwinson said:
Well, part of it is that we're meta-gaming bastard fucks. We know that bandwagoning gives us bonuses, while vigorous disputes give penalties, so we bandwagon hard. Another part is that none of us actually have any of the personal investments that would cause the actual citizens to vote for a "clearly suboptimal" plan because it would, say, destroy our livelihoods. We're not risking our own lives, we're merely risking the quest. Furthermore, we know a lot more about alternate social organization schemes, and are deliberately bending Eretria toward those ends for various reasons.

Says you, Dexios has been trying to get the Slavery Ban lifted for so goddamn long now.

Ironanvil1 · Sep 24, 2016

Deadly Snark said:
Says you, Dexios has been trying to get the Slavery Ban lifted for so goddamn long now.

Yeah, trying to damage the livelihood of hardworking local blacksmiths! :anger:

Void Stalker · Sep 24, 2016

One thing though is we are going to need to be careful about Aristocratic Opinion since it will be down to 50 and we don't want it dropping much. I would prefer not at all in case we need to take a critical option that drops it. For me maintaining high opinions acts as a buffer as we will have options that will drop opinions that are also very useful to take.

Anthonyjt · Sep 24, 2016

If I remember correctly, opinions go to -200 to 200 so I'm pretty sure we're still in good with the hopilites and aristocrats, mabye not as much as we would like but still good.
Is this right Cetashwayo?

Stealthy · Sep 24, 2016

A 10 point hit to the Aristocrats (who've just enjoyed several years of aristocrat dominated politics between Antipater and Drako) is worth better cavalry. I'm not worried if their opinion goes down to 50, it's not that low of a number.

Erandil · Sep 24, 2016

Provided the war is successful we should also get new loot, new slaves and new land - all of which should make hoplites and aristos happy.

Professor Vesca · Sep 24, 2016

No. No more new land. We have a labor shortage as it is.

HanEmpire · Sep 24, 2016

Professor Vesca said:
No. No more new land. We have a labor shortage as it is.

Labour shortage -> Conquest for slaves -> New Lands -> Labour shortage -> Conquest for slaves...

McLuvin · Sep 24, 2016

Literally the Roman Empire

Cetashwayo · Sep 24, 2016

No turn end tonight, but vote is now closed. And 50 opinion is not fatal; although I didn't show it, aristo opinion during the early years was probably around 20-30 constantly, and a sizable portion of questers were calling for class warfare so that we don't become the roman empire

Void Stalker · Sep 24, 2016

Tally was a lot easier this time, total of 37 voters

Vote Tally : Original - Alt. History - Magna Graecia: A City State Quest | Page 379 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4

[34] Herodion: Deliberate, methodical destruction of Azetion's ability to resist. Construction of a circumvallation wall around the city using the trade gangs and military slaves. Use the Peuketii to maintain the blockade during off-season with cavalry. Use the opportunity to impress the fearsome power of Eretria on the Dauni and Messapii. [6 months Military Upkeep, -20 talents for a wall].
[34] Herodion's Cavalry Veterans, his 'Kleos Exoria' (Ancient Greek for honoured exiles), will teach the cavalrymen of Eretria the skills they have learned from their 10 years ahorse in battle. [-10 Aristocratic opinion].
[33] The Proboulos should have power over every segment of the boule, regardless of what slate they were on before taking office.
[33] Delegated: A single head strategos, two deputy strategoi, and seven more subordinate strategoi.
[30] Stone Quarry [-140 Talents, unlocks Lyceum, Stone Wall, provides domestic source of stone (DOES NOT PROVIDE TRADABLE STONE RESOURCE). One year to build.]
[24] Make it challenging, but not brutal, and open it up older men who can distinguish themselves [+44 new Ekdromoi].
[22] Every five years.
[15] Allow the proboulos (the leader of the Boule) to declare it as needed if their ranks need replenishing.

Ironanvil1
atrophy
Cannongerbil
Cavalier
Godwinson
McLuvin
Neptune
Orisha91
Professor Vesca
Sarpedon
Sigvrd
Spacegnom
Strypgia
The Insaniac
Versharl

[13] Make the entrance a rigorous competition of the flower of the youth. [+20 new Ekdromoi this year.]

Erandil
Cannongerbil
Deadly Snark
Hopper
Japanime
Publicola
Redium
Shard
Unstorpable
veekie
Versharl
Void Stalker
XkaliburRage

[7] Olive Farm [-130 talents, unlocks Olive Press, adds 5 units of resource Olives (only exportable with Press). Five years to build.]

Publicola
AvidFicReader
Cannongerbil
Sigvrd
Susano
Void Stalker
Zoxabels

[4] Centralized: A single head strategos and ten subordinate strategoi.

Erandil
Shard
Unstorpable
XkaliburRage

[3] We do not need to create such a band of elite cavalrymen, who will think themselves above the city.

Publicola
kilopi505
Void Stalker

[3] Ampellios: Bold Interdiction. Construct a fort in the countryside, on a high hill near Azetion, and house a garrison there year-round for an expense. Use this to raid the countryside at any time, from anywhere, and make Azetion feel unsecure to force a surrender. [4 Months military upkeep, -50 talents to construct a fort, -10 talents annually for upkeep].

Zoxabels
Cannongerbil
kilopi505

[2] Detach slates from tribe-based voting entirely; each member has to be drawn from a different tribe, but they all get in if the leader does.

Susano
AvidFicReader

[1] Boule members from different slates should be free from the coercive power established for the Proboulos before the tribal reforms.

kilopi505

Total No. of Voters: 37

Orisha91 · Sep 24, 2016

Cetashwayo said:
No turn end tonight, but vote is now closed. And 50 opinion is not fatal; although I didn't show it, aristo opinion during the early years was probably around 20-30 constantly, and a sizable portion of questers were calling for class warfare so that we don't become the roman empire

Wow, we were right on the edge there.

Void Stalker · Sep 24, 2016

So right now we should be looking at 125.05 talents in the treasury, this will go up and down depending on events and the results of our military expedition.

Magna Graecia: A City State Quest

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