Logan (3rd Wolverine Movie), March 2017

I'm willing to forgive X-24 being on-the-nose because him being a clone of Wolvie made Xavier's death scene nightmarish as hell to my unsuspecting mind. I was in disbelief all the way up to the shot of the real Logan getting out of the truck, which I think was exactly the imtention. And from then on they avoid basically every single way X-24 could've completely fucked the movie up and kept the focus squarely where it needed to be.

God that was fucking terrific. When his face looms out of the darkness I didn't register the facial hair at first and since Charles had just confessed to potentially killing all the X-Men my mind was in the perfect place to think "is Logan seriously killing him?" It was a perfect culmination of the whole Gen-X/Baby Boomer dynamic they'd been setting up, that the caretaker's resentment and frustrations with their parent end with the latter's death.
 
As much as I loved the movie, I thought Ragerine was pretty lame. TBH I would have taken a less ridiculous variation of Barakapool than Ragerine. It was pretty him fisted, because Logan wasn't struggling with his rage issues at all. Unlike Old Man Logan, he wasn't responsible for killing the X-Men. Maybe have Logan go out in a suicide charge against the paramilitary group that was chasing them and the kids and inspire them to fight back even harder than they already did two free themselves or something.
 
God that was fucking terrific. When his face looms out of the darkness I didn't register the facial hair at first and since Charles had just confessed to potentially killing all the X-Men my mind was in the perfect place to think "is Logan seriously killing him?" It was a perfect culmination of the whole Gen-X/Baby Boomer dynamic they'd been setting up, that the caretaker's resentment and frustrations with their parent end with the latter's death.
Hehe, you said Gen-X.

That dark suspicion that Logan really is just euthanising Xavier on the happiest night of his life to spare him the pain of remembering his mass-murder seizures was so fucked-up, I loved it.

I wonder if it was deliberate that they set up hating X-24 so well only to make Logan basically powerless against him. Ultimately every stab and slash accomplished as much as beating up the truck after Xavier's funeral. The only thing that stopped X-24 was Logan's daughter shooting him in the fucking face with the bullet he was keeping around in case he wanted to end it all. Pretty great stuff, on reflection I'm glad it wasn't Logan himself that pulled the trigger like I expected.

As much as I loved the movie, I thought Ragerine was pretty lame. TBH I would have taken a less ridiculous variation of Barakapool than Ragerine. It was pretty him fisted, because Logan wasn't struggling with his rage issues at all. Unlike Old Man Logan, he wasn't responsible for killing the X-Men. Maybe have Logan go out in a suicide charge against the paramilitary group that was chasing them and the kids and inspire them to fight back even harder than they already did two free themselves or something.
I think the idea being presented was more that a lot of Logan's anger issues are mitigated by him just being so fucking tired by the time the movie rolls around. It's not exactly a present enemy so much as a nightmarish vision of the past that pushes him to keep moving forward.
 
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That would be somewhat at cross purposes with the fact that Logan's healing is failing, I think.

Something I realized after seeing the film and reading some reviews: Logan is poisoned by the adamantium in his bones, which Laura also has (At least in her claws) and will likely suffer from eventually. That's a nice hidden metaphor for the daughter inheriting her father's anger despite Logan's attempts to steer her away from becoming him.



1. X-24 is teased in the first act after Logan sees the nurse's whistleblower video, but this is an irrelevant complaint anyway.
2. He spends the entire goddamn film ranging from "grumpy" to "human thresher". It's true he only murders when threatened, but the entire rest of the time he's a pretty great representation of someone living 24/7 with anger issues, like when he breaks Caliban's mug.
3. Of course he doesn't overcome his issues! They fucking kill him! Literally! He's not supposed to have some great epiphany, he serves as an example to Laura as he explicitly asks her on his deathbed not to be like him.
4. The fuck were they supposed to do, ask the sociopathic mercenaries working for the genocidal corporation to please stop hunting them? And again, are you missing that this literally leads to Logan's fucking death?

At this point I am seriously starting to wonder if you actually watched the film or skimmed a Wikipedia article.
His healing is failing alongside his faith? Charles, the greatest advocate for mutants accidentally killed a bunch much like how his metal skeleton is killing him? I don't know, I think it works
 
Define quality? I mean yes the movie lovingly detailed all the ways in which adamantium claws can render people into inert meat. Or maintaining a consistently bleak and rundown aesthetic. Oh and the acting was good too, not that the movie seemed to care, as that would obviously get in the way of the meat production. There are many works I've seen that have a lot of 'quality' but never managed to get it together into a coherent and compelling narrative full of living characters you can emphasize with.

The way the violence in Logan is set up is actually a topic I really want to talk about. Logan doesn't have fights, generally. It has sucker punches. Shots from ambush. Executions. Chases. But it doesn't really have fights where two people hunker down and throw blows at each other. The only time people get anywhere near close to trading blows is one scene.

Logan versus X-24 and that's literally a man fighting himself.

Just going "the movie lovingly detailed all the ways in which adamantium claws can render people into inert meat" is missing the point. The fight choreography in Logan is saying something. It's saying that there are no comic book style fights.

And that reinforces the point which @Jace911 brings up that Logan doesn't want Laura to be like him. Because even fighting for a good cause, there's nothing nice or kind or glorious about it. In the end what you're doing is killing, plain and simple, right or wrong.
 
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Saw this movie a couple of nights ago.
-Overall, some great work. Not necessarily a "perfect movie", but definitely a good, powerful, and intense movie.
-I liked how slim the cast was. It gave it a focus most of the X Films have kind of lacked.
-Caliban was fun, and I feel like they played his death pretty well.
-Hoboy did Jackman earn his salary. Just....man.
-Like, for me just that first scene hit home how messed-up he was. He's getting out of the car, and he can barely put his feet on the ground straight. One of his eyes barely opens. He's shuffling and stiff. Just...yikes.
--I somehow missed the whole "pus on his knuckles" *showing up*, though obviously Caliban mentioned it too.
-At first the whole "claws don't come all the way out" thing was funny, until one ponders why he can't do that. I mean, they're coated in metal but they're still part of his body. It's like if someone couldn't use all 5 fingers, or a cat could only extend most of its claws. Him having to struggle to "unstick" the claw was...yeah.
-Laura being silent over half the movie was a good touch, as was her defaulting to Spanish.
--It was a bit unclear to me if the surgery scene with her was them implanting the claws wholesale, or coating them in adamantium.
-At first I was disappointed Mister Sinister didn't show up in the movie, but thinking about it again, I think he would have distracted from it.
-Ragearine was a bit corny, but there's definitely some strong reasoning behind it, and I think it works.
-The small subtle things that show it's over a decade in the future are a nice touch.
-Gabriella's line was...oof. "She is not my daughter, but I love her. You do not love her, but she is your daughter." Man.
-"Daddy!" :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: Just....ugh. In the best way possible, ugh.

Finally....Sir Patrick Stewart as Charles Xavier is....this may be one of the better "character suffering from Alzheimer's/dementia" portrayals out there.
Earlier in the thread some commented on his own frequent swearing, and some opined he was "just tired of all the shit" or some such. Perhaps Xavier is weary, yes, but I think the swearing is one of the symptoms of his degeneration.
One of the things that happens when someone's suffering Alzheimer's for a few years is that they can get mean. This manifests in many ways; I recall my grandmother getting snappy at weird times and ways with my grandfather (before things progressed to the point she had to stay in a nursing home and eventually couldn't recognize anyone, hardly). She knew who he was and could generally grasp what was going on around her, but....it wasn't the same.
Xavier curses and is mean at times to Logan, then at other times is tender. He's cranky like a child. He's frustrated with indignities he barely understands (bathroom bit). He acts out his frustration in childish ways (sticking his tongue out to prove he swallowed his pills). He focuses on random memories (commercials). He has a childlike insistence about things (the bit in the elevator when he tries to give Logan the hat). His most lucid moments are ones focusing on times long past or lifelong skills (his exposition about why Laura has claws on her feet; his discussion about being a teacher and running a school at dinner). His struggle to connect things ("I always know who you are, sometimes I just don't recognize you"). The bit with him caring for the plants is probably something they did to give him something simple, repetitive, and mostly harmless to do.
Basically, he masterfully shows someone who's mid-way through a diagnosis of a degenerative mental disease; he's not just forgetting the odd name or face or date occasionally, but neither is he so far gone as to be near-vegetative.
It was a fantastic performance.
And considering it wasn't that long ago my own grandmother passed after something like a decade of Alzheimer's, that performance is still punching me in the gut. I'm shocked I didn't cry just at his performance in the movie, though I could tell I was close.

So, while this movie wasn't perfect, it was good. Great, even.
 
I believe it started with Black Lightning who was DC's first black superhero with his own series and continued with Static, Storm, Miles' venom shock. There aren't really a lot of black superheroes with lightning numerically but the proportion and relative popularity of those heroes is strangely high.
It gets even higher when you take into account that since Black Lightning was creator owned, for the Superfriends they created Black Vulcan, for JLU they created Juice (since their where also rights issues with the Black Vulcan name), and for the Static Shock Animated series they created Soul Power.
 
The way the violence in Logan is set up is actually a topic I really want to talk about. Logan doesn't have fights, generally. It has sucker punches. Shots from ambush. Executions. Chases. But it doesn't really have fights where two people hunker down and throw blows at each other. The only time people get anywhere near close to trading blows is Logan versus X-24 and that's literally a man fighting himself. Just going "the movie lovingly detailed all the ways in which adamantium claws can render people into inert meat" is missing the point. The fight choreography in Logan is saying something. It's saying that there are no comic book style fights.

And that reinforces the point which @Jace911 brings up that Logan doesn't want Laura to be like him. Because even fighting for a good cause, there's nothing nice or kind or glorious about it. In the end what you're doing is killing, plain and simple, right or wrong.

I don't buy it. There were plenty of straight up brawls; Logan ended up running at men who were shooting at him plenty, hell, the opening fight had the whole talking into fighting thing going on. No, what I'd say the big difference is that the fights were horrific. There was no glorification of violence here, they were nasty and made you wince. People were maimed or killed in a horrible fashion and you at some level wanted it to be over.
 
My sister went and watched the movie last weekend. She liked it.

My brother went and watched it who-knew-when. He said the movie was boring.

He was lucky I was in another state or I might have strangle him. I haven't got the chance to go watch the movie yet. :(
 
For those worried about Laura and a certain condition she may have inherited:
I wouldn't worry about her suffering from adamantium poisoning to any serious degree in her life. Logan's entire skeleton was grafted with adamantium 44 years before the events of the film: the first X-Men was set in 2000, and Logan had been amnesiac for 15 years prior to that. It took half a century of prolonged, heavy exposure to the adamantium as well as his advanced aging slowing his healing in the first place, to cripple him to such a degree.

Laura's different. Not only is she extremely young, but she only had the adamantium grafted to her claws. Anything further at her age would result in horrific growth problems that would render her useless to her makers as a weapon very quickly, so she has about 10% (probably less) of what Logan has in him. Not only that, but her ability to heal hasn't begun slowing due to advanced aging: she would have to reach around 200 before that even came close to being a factor, and with her minimal amount of adamantium it would take even longer to start actually affecting her, because her body wouldn't need to devote nearly as much time fending off the poisoning as Logan's had to do.

Given a long enough timeframe, Laura might start being affected badly enough for it to matter: but she's got more than two and a half centuries, minimum, to figure out how to deal with that. And given that the adamantium is only on her claws, it's likely she could just take them out via surgery and grow back some new bone claws. Which conveniently takes away a physical reminder of what the X-23 Project did to her, so that's nice.

Short of it? Laura's gonna be A-Okay. No need to worry.
 
For those worried about Laura and a certain condition she may have inherited:
I wouldn't worry about her suffering from adamantium poisoning to any serious degree in her life. Logan's entire skeleton was grafted with adamantium 44 years before the events of the film: the first X-Men was set in 2000, and Logan had been amnesiac for 15 years prior to that. It took half a century of prolonged, heavy exposure to the adamantium as well as his advanced aging slowing his healing in the first place, to cripple him to such a degree.

Laura's different. Not only is she extremely young, but she only had the adamantium grafted to her claws. Anything further at her age would result in horrific growth problems that would render her useless to her makers as a weapon very quickly, so she has about 10% (probably less) of what Logan has in him. Not only that, but her ability to heal hasn't begun slowing due to advanced aging: she would have to reach around 200 before that even came close to being a factor, and with her minimal amount of adamantium it would take even longer to start actually affecting her, because her body wouldn't need to devote nearly as much time fending off the poisoning as Logan's had to do.

Given a long enough timeframe, Laura might start being affected badly enough for it to matter: but she's got more than two and a half centuries, minimum, to figure out how to deal with that. And given that the adamantium is only on her claws, it's likely she could just take them out via surgery and grow back some new bone claws. Which conveniently takes away a physical reminder of what the X-23 Project did to her, so that's nice.

Short of it? Laura's gonna be A-Okay. No need to worry.
Considering that the metal bones thing probably completely coated his bones, which likely impeded his body's use of bone marrow (which is kind of important). Laura doesn't have that problem, either.
 
Considering that the metal bones thing probably completely coated his bones, which likely impeded his body's use of bone marrow (which is kind of important). Laura doesn't have that problem, either.
The comics had a solution for that, actually, something involving his healing ability mutating the adamantium's properties as it came into contact with his bones so that it didn't mess with access to bone marrow. That being said, it's easily handwaved by having a healing factor regardless of that explanation or not. But speaking of healing factors...

X-24 was odd in that he seemed to have a healing ability similar to Logan's, except not always. Perhaps the cloning process was imperfect compared to the cleaner solution of impregnating a woman to get Laura, and he came with genetic defects like a weaker regen. During the fights he clearly heals faster and more effectively than old-and-busted Logan, but when he gets that shotgun blast to the face he doesn't seem to heal until Rice gives him that booster serum (although the fact that he's still alive at all says a lot).

If he's cloned from Logan's cells directly, maybe X-24 also inherited that slowed healing factor but without the levels of adamantium poisoning already built up in Logan's system to distract it from healing exterior wounds. And then Rice made use of the healing serum to occasionally purge the poison from his system, keeping him from getting to Logan's level. Or perhaps I'm missing something.

I imagine if Logan wasn't suffering from the adamantium and his body trying to fend it off during the film, he'd be more like in The Wolverine: slowed down and needing to catch his breath, but still quite effective, though not to the level we see in the climax when he takes the serum. The forest rampage, in my view, is the serum putting him effectively at zero-mileage again with his healing ability.

Honestly, if another movie in the Loganverse was made (because I prefer it being in its own canon and the story behaves that way anyway) I'd love to see the fate of Laura and the others we meet. They'd make a way cooler and more interesting X-Men team than the Apocalypse crew we're gonna have to deal with now. But I'm just as happy leaving them with an ambiguous but hopeful future.
 


Seemed fitting that this be linked to the thread. A pretty beautiful retrospective of Hugh Jackman's time as the Wolverine.
 
Man. He looked like an entirely different person back then. They both have evolved, almost symbiotically. The comics have changed to look like Hugh, and Hugh will forever be Logan, someway or another.
 
Apologies for the double post, but it's been a week and a half. I saw this movie Friday night, and I still fail to articulate a description. It's all so beautiful! And painful. I went in expecting a few sad moments, but figured overall it would be either Deadpool-esque, with violence and profanity being dispensed in equal measure, or more like Old Man Logan. A sense of defeat pervading the movie with a 'this is life now' tone to everything, even the lighter parts. It left even that behind. Case in point, after they buried Xavier, and Logan was wailing on the truck with the shovel, the audience around me was chuckling at his frustration, but I've seen that broken of a person before, and it hurt. Like, hurt. And then the ending. Oh man. I choked up. The last time I choked up was hearing the dog I grew up with had died two days before Christmas, and I wasn't even in the same state to help bury him. He died while I was at work, and I still regret not being able to tell him goodbye. That's how the ending made me feel.


Poor Charles, suffering because of his own mind. It almost seemed like the 'Freeze the Whole Room When I'm Not There' trick from the other movies, but he couldn't control it. I did feel good about the 'ruse' for the Munsens. Logan calling Xavier 'Dad' seemed so natural. I know, acting, but still. The way Hugh slid in to calling Pat Stew 'Dad' was touching.


And then, there's Laura. The murderball of broken emotions. Her quoting Shane at the end, over Logans Grave, was what really got me. And then turning the cross, out of respect. I hope that Dafne Keen goes on to other acting roles, because she was fantastic. She played Laura like Hugh played Logan over the years. I also hope she gets a spin off, because she deserves it.


Just like the IMDb exclusive said, there were no small parts. Stephen Merchant, Boyd Holbrook, Rey Gallegos. They were all amazing in their parts.
 
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