- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's a Chekhov's Knife if ever I saw one. I don't know who is getting stabbed: Delita, Folmarv, Ramza, Ovelia herself, but there's no way this game ends without someone getting stabbed by it.
Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Playing: Final Fantasy IX]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
That's a Chekhov's Knife if ever I saw one. I don't know who is getting stabbed: Delita, Folmarv, Ramza, Ovelia herself, but there's no way this game ends without someone getting stabbed by it.
This is really good. Could you please consider posting this as a fanfic somewhere? I really like it when people use fanfiction to expand or improve poorly handled pieces of canon like this, and it would be sad if this more positive take on that scene gets buried here.
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- He/Him
The last of the plot twists Ogre Battle veterans would know: the existence of the thirteenth Zodiac Stone, the Black Diamond. Long corrupted, the Black Diamond was used by the wizard Rashidi to gain the power to awaken the king of demons and take over the world.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Looking at the Final Fantasy Wikia page, I think I can guess why WotL (and seemingly most other entries that reference them) came up with Reaver as a translation for
It was to keep the FFV reference going. When FFV was first released in English, アパンダ was translated as Apprehendr. And "Reaver" is a much cooler word that also refers to
I vaguely remember memeing about you playing it at the start of this thread, but what if the cursed Ivalice RTS on the DS holds similar secrets?
Could you really forgive yourself for skipping it?
Though there's another pile of mainline games to play before that game would have its turn.
- Location
- Land of the Midday Sun
There's at least 3 items you can get now that grant Invisible status to the wearer, and they makes keeping your treasure hunter alive vastly easier. But I agree that's a chore, so it's ok to skip it.
Frankly the whole exit deal is already bullshit, there is an easy way to see where the exit is but it's not something anyone would think of doing unless told: if you reduce any normal enemy's Bravery under 10 they become a chicken (Beowulf has it easier with his Chicken spell, you cna use the Oracle's Trepidation otherwise). In this dungeon chicken'ed enemis will move to and stand on the exit tile if your characters are far enough, so the strategy is to chicken one enemy, kill everyone else and see where the chicken goes to roost. As I said, not something anyone would do until told.
View: https://youtu.be/iDMxyeNxBWo?si=_ZQe8KPmjPWFW0LE
Thinking more about the injustice of denying Ramza the Dark Knight class, as you do, I think the core issue is the lack of narrative acknowledgment of it. If in your duel with Gaffgarion he said to you, "Surrender, boy. I've watched over you for a year, I know all your moves, and I'm not impressed. You could not master my fell arts, you've no chance against me. Surrender and spare your life" and Ramza answered with, "It's not my fight alone. Great your skills may be, you fight for the money, I fight for the people, and so people I have at my side" and then Hadrian deleted Gaffgarion with Jump, the lack of special shit on Ramza would be a lot less biting. It would've been a deliberate statement on the character and his role in the broader conflict.
As it is, while the case for thematic meaning of Ramza only getting generic jobs in the original version could be made, it's only ever sorta implied by the mechanics, never stated by the narrative, so how "real" it is is questionable. As a result, Ramza not getting to be a special knight comes across as just denying the player cool toys to play with.
And so Ramza the Heretic kills another pious Cardinal watching over this particular fief. I wonder if the clergy not in on the conspiracy think Ramza has a particular connection with this land and hatred of the church ruling over it. In their place, I'd probably tried to set up a trap for Ramza here because surely he'll come the third time for another Cardinal. (In place of the third Cardinal chosen to inherit the land, I'd just run.)
The whole treasure hunt mechanic sounds insanely frustrating, especially with ultimate gear on the line. Like, regular treasure? Sure. You either end up on the right tile and get Elixir or something or you don't. Random chance to get some better loot? Sure, phoenix down or a katana that will only be unlocked after two more fights, whatever. It's nice to get but won't make or break your game, so you may as well keep treasure hunt on someone less move-dependent just in case. It's still kinda bad, but not intensely so.
Getting ultimate gear through this? Yeah, fuck that noise.
Steal doesn't look too good, either, but at least it's more transparent, with the stakes and required actions being far more clear.
As it is, while the case for thematic meaning of Ramza only getting generic jobs in the original version could be made, it's only ever sorta implied by the mechanics, never stated by the narrative, so how "real" it is is questionable. As a result, Ramza not getting to be a special knight comes across as just denying the player cool toys to play with.
And so Ramza the Heretic kills another pious Cardinal watching over this particular fief. I wonder if the clergy not in on the conspiracy think Ramza has a particular connection with this land and hatred of the church ruling over it. In their place, I'd probably tried to set up a trap for Ramza here because surely he'll come the third time for another Cardinal. (In place of the third Cardinal chosen to inherit the land, I'd just run.)
The whole treasure hunt mechanic sounds insanely frustrating, especially with ultimate gear on the line. Like, regular treasure? Sure. You either end up on the right tile and get Elixir or something or you don't. Random chance to get some better loot? Sure, phoenix down or a katana that will only be unlocked after two more fights, whatever. It's nice to get but won't make or break your game, so you may as well keep treasure hunt on someone less move-dependent just in case. It's still kinda bad, but not intensely so.
Getting ultimate gear through this? Yeah, fuck that noise.
Steal doesn't look too good, either, but at least it's more transparent, with the stakes and required actions being far more clear.
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Aliste has...this man has vibes.
Beowulf: "Bro, you're my best friend, my constant companion, we've been through so much and you were always at my side, and that's why I am asking you...to be my Best Man when I marry Reiss. Bro? Bro you okay, you look a little..."
Aliste: "Yes sure definitely I am okay I'm fine fine just fine I definitely didn't just suffer a massive emotional trauma I can't process, am not going to process, I'm definitely not teetering on the brink where one more piece of bad news and I'll kidnap Reiss to bait you into dueling me to the death so I can get some kind of closure to our relationship. I'm fine bro."
Beowulf: "Glad to hear it, bro. Good talk."
Beowulf: "Bro, you're my best friend, my constant companion, we've been through so much and you were always at my side, and that's why I am asking you...to be my Best Man when I marry Reiss. Bro? Bro you okay, you look a little..."
Aliste: "Yes sure definitely I am okay I'm fine fine just fine I definitely didn't just suffer a massive emotional trauma I can't process, am not going to process, I'm definitely not teetering on the brink where one more piece of bad news and I'll kidnap Reiss to bait you into dueling me to the death so I can get some kind of closure to our relationship. I'm fine bro."
Beowulf: "Glad to hear it, bro. Good talk."
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
I don't think I agree with this particular read - the player is given two Swordskill users. That's honestly one more than you need, and Ramza also having the skillset would make him less unique, just "more of the same" with all the other Swordskill users in the game. It's repetitive.
Instead, Ramza's unique class plays like nothing else in the game does, with a focus on self-buffing and working around the opposition (like a typical underdog hero who succeeds through guile) instead of simply overpowering them through the power of Swordskills. I think having the protagonist being mechanically different and with tactics unique to him is valuable from a gameplay perspective.
Honestly, until I saw people commenting on it, I didn't ever realize people felt the need for Ramza to upgrade to a Holy Knight class, let alone how widespread the sentiment was. I actually enjoyed Ramza, the only character I'm forced to have in the team, offering unique gameplay opportunities, and the only problem I had with it was that the differences weren't more pronounced. Him losing his unique class to become the same as every other noble knight, the way Delita did, would have been boring and disappointing to me. I gather that this is not a sentiment most people share, but I still think that, at least mechanically, the argument that "the protagonist should have something mechanically unique to them" is a very solid one against giving Ramza Swordskills of his own.
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Eh, probably not. "Everyone knows the twelve zodiac signs and the Braves that bear their stones, but there is a secret thirteenth sign of the serpent-bearer" is a cool edgy twist rooted in some fun real astronomy. "And also there is the fourteenth sign as well" is overdoing it from the narrative perspective. If someone did it, I can guarantee you people would endlessly joke about how many more secret signs are there (regardless of astronomical roots).
(Also, whale is not as cool as serpent-bearer)
Oh, hey, it's been a while since we've seen this meme in the thread. Which is a shame.
God has a lot to answer for.
So do you.
Elidibus: My sincere wish that I hold in my heart... is to murder those fuckers dead!
Ophiuchus: ...
Ophiuchus: ...Yeah, OK, I'll work with that.
More seriously, Elidibus is a wizard meditating in the darkness far beneath the earth, consorting with monsters, demons and ninjas, and thinking nothing of killing Ramza and Co just for showing up. Even the errand comments on his black soul.
With other people, the way Lucavi possession works is that all their positive qualities get hollowed out, leaving behind an empty vessel for the Lucavi to inhabit. With Elidibus, there is nothing to hollow: he's made himself a demon in mind if not in body, and so when the Lucavi comes, there is no difference. Two become one, and neither notices the change.
Lucavi Alma, surely.
Ramza's just a Squire.
Mustadio instantly falls to the ground, dead.
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- They/Them
I feel like the implication is pretty well that Ramza has flexibility to be shaped as "your avatar doing what you find cool". If his Squire class name changed to Heretic Knight, it feels like it's implying that that's his intended direction: this is his unique thing. By just letting Squire get random cool things, it feels less punishing for a player who goes "I want Ramza to be the ultimate magic-wielder, white/black/time mage a go!"
They left behind the ability to Yell usefully, sure, but they got a Ramza who's very good at blowing things up with magic. That's less of a "you made the wrong decision!" feeling than if you turn down the only Heretic Knight you can field in favor of "a white mage mostly the same as any other white mage".
They left behind the ability to Yell usefully, sure, but they got a Ramza who's very good at blowing things up with magic. That's less of a "you made the wrong decision!" feeling than if you turn down the only Heretic Knight you can field in favor of "a white mage mostly the same as any other white mage".
The lack of offensive options (aside from Ultima, which is a weird optional thing that's also underwhelming) here is important, I think. It's understandable from game design perspective: a speed boost is universally useful regardless of the rest of your build, while a unique attack with the specific damage formula and range would "lock" Ramza into a particular role (or at least push him there), but it does mean that, cool name or no, his unique class would lack the cool factor of special knights.
Bearing this in mind and assuming leaving Ramza fully customizable is desirable, I think the most viable solution would be to just lower the requirements to unlock the Dark Knight, so it's about as difficult to do as getting samurai or ninja. So if you want to join the ranks of special knights, there is a straightforward way. If not, you can become a mage instead or whatever your heart desires.
Heck, even lowering Dark Knight to slightly higher requirements than Samurai or Ninja would still be fine! Those classes might be unlocked in chapter 2 or early chapter 3 in a standard playthrough, but Dark Knight on the other hand has not only the "murder 20+ people to crystallization" annoyance, but also asks that you fully master multiple classes. If it was instead Idunno, Knight 5/Samurai 5/Black Mage 5 it would still be a late game class, but not quite an absurd endgame one.
I suppose one could argue "but wait the lifedrain attacks can break the game balance" or something, but seeing as this is a WotL exclusive class, they already *knew* FFT's game balance was broken, there's a dozen ways to snap the game in half if you know what you're doing.
I suppose one could argue "but wait the lifedrain attacks can break the game balance" or something, but seeing as this is a WotL exclusive class, they already *knew* FFT's game balance was broken, there's a dozen ways to snap the game in half if you know what you're doing.
daniel_gudman
KING (in land of blind)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hester, covered in blood after her last kill, pointing her katana to Mustadio :
"And now, you can be mine Mustadio. You don't need to submit to Gillian anymore."
Gillian, opening her arithmetic book, preparing to cast Holy (or Zodiark) :
"Don't expect that I leave Mustadio that easily. How dare you to do a sneaky move like this on him suddenly ?"
Hester, with an impassive cold-blood face :
"Well, I am a ninja."
Mustadio, lost about why the two powerhouse of Ramza's small army are fighting about him :
"Ram-ramza, h-help !"
Ramza, chilling around :
"No infight please, I need both of you for the final fights. But you can compete about which one of you is the most efficient to kill Mustadio. I have enough Phoenix Down to ressurrect him a lot. So, the first of you who will whiff her attack on him will be the loser. "
Mustadio, wtih watery eyes :
"Wh-why Ramza ??? Pl-please Agrias, protect me !"
Agrias, looking at the distance, musing :
"Sorry, Mustadio, I have just finished my lipstick, I am not in the mood for these kind of games."
Mustadio, at his wit's end :
"I-i will buy you another one ! I love you ! I want to marry you !"
Ramza, batting his eyes :
"Wow, I didin't realize that you really want to die that much ? Saying you love her, just before the final battle ??? You are not raising a death flag here, you are already raising a flag in Charon boat. "
"You know Mustadio...." begins Agrias, taking out her sword from her sheath.
The plot thickens. Will Agrias protect Mustadio ? Will Agrias participate in the Mustadio love killing game ?
In the next episode : The choice of Agrias !!!
"And now, you can be mine Mustadio. You don't need to submit to Gillian anymore."
Gillian, opening her arithmetic book, preparing to cast Holy (or Zodiark) :
"Don't expect that I leave Mustadio that easily. How dare you to do a sneaky move like this on him suddenly ?"
Hester, with an impassive cold-blood face :
"Well, I am a ninja."
Mustadio, lost about why the two powerhouse of Ramza's small army are fighting about him :
"Ram-ramza, h-help !"
Ramza, chilling around :
"No infight please, I need both of you for the final fights. But you can compete about which one of you is the most efficient to kill Mustadio. I have enough Phoenix Down to ressurrect him a lot. So, the first of you who will whiff her attack on him will be the loser. "
Mustadio, wtih watery eyes :
"Wh-why Ramza ??? Pl-please Agrias, protect me !"
Agrias, looking at the distance, musing :
"Sorry, Mustadio, I have just finished my lipstick, I am not in the mood for these kind of games."
Mustadio, at his wit's end :
"I-i will buy you another one ! I love you ! I want to marry you !"
Ramza, batting his eyes :
"Wow, I didin't realize that you really want to die that much ? Saying you love her, just before the final battle ??? You are not raising a death flag here, you are already raising a flag in Charon boat. "
"You know Mustadio...." begins Agrias, taking out her sword from her sheath.
The plot thickens. Will Agrias protect Mustadio ? Will Agrias participate in the Mustadio love killing game ?
In the next episode : The choice of Agrias !!!
- Pronouns
- She/They
It is interesting, the FFT devs must have decided early on on the format of the game - probably taking a page from Tactics Ogre - which precludes a whole lot of talking to townsfolk and incidental dialogue. But at the same time, they didn't want to just keep everything limited to story critical moments. The Errands are an interesting way to get around that and actually deliver some worldbuilding and smaller scale character interaction.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with Errands as a way to give more optional content first, with the rewards being added in to justify their inclusion.
Yeah it's very like. Minimum Viable Character Beat, but also we desperately did need that beat to happen. I would've liked it to be more natural, but at least they gave us something.
... also, Agrias mentions joining up with Ovelia and being her sworn blade again after this is over, but like. Isn't she labelled a heretic
Which. Actually. If that does happen, her name likely would have been stricken from the tale of Ramza the Heretic in tbe future, which means the Durai papers would have had the added dimension of "actually Agrias travelled with Ramza the entire time and killed like. So many demons and priests and lords, it was insane. But remember they were alsp the good guys!"
The more I think about the implications of this scene the more wild they seem, god.
If anything it's a perfect microcosm of this game. The storytelling is truly fantastic and characterization is grand, but sometimes all of that is wholly subsumed by the need to punch some dorks in the face on a battlefield.
"0/10 trap, extremely basic, no style at all, and painfully obvious. Doesn't even involve granting the dreams of the nearest theatre kid"
It can be both! The old dying knight can have a little bit of badass, as a treat.
Yeah other folks have brought it up, but pretty much. The FFXIV devs are massive Matsuno fans, and I for one support them making some cheeky references to a favorite game and then needing to flesh out the story around those references once it became wildly successful.
Rereading I realized I never posted the character quotes for the new party members.
Cidolfus Orlandeau: Long ago, I was taught to strike from behind and keep my back to the wall.
Reis Duelar (Holy Dragon): Grrrrr...
Reis Duelar: !
Rapha Galthena: Faith offers no shield against Sky Mantra, for words are treacherous things
Marach Galthena: Nether Mantra deals great damage to those of little Faith. Believe and you shall be saved!
Beowulf Cadmus: Temples? Ah, where people worship the gods. Or perhaps the flat areas bracketing the forehead.
Meliadoul Tengille: What is love? Mayhap it is when you care more about someone else than you do about yourself.
Cloud Strife: It is concealed at the top of the volcano!
Construct 8: DOES NOT COMPUTE! CANNOT PROCESS COMMAND!
Balthier: No rest for the weary or wicked.
Luso: It's kind of fun never knowing what lies ahead!
Also certain enemy characters have a quote too for who knows why
Meliadoul Tengille (Enemy): On occasion, capes will protect you from rear attacks.
Argath Thadalfus (Deathknight): It's just one thing after another, isn't it?
Aliste Rosenheim: Come, come—no need to worry.
Bremondt Freitberg: No! B-begone, I say!
Bremondt Freitberg (Dark Dragon): I shall eat you up!
Also thanks to multiplayer missions Delita's assistant has a quote although again I just ask why?
Valmafra Lenande: As long as there are humans, so will there be witches among them.
Cidolfus Orlandeau: Long ago, I was taught to strike from behind and keep my back to the wall.
Reis Duelar (Holy Dragon): Grrrrr...
Reis Duelar: !
Rapha Galthena: Faith offers no shield against Sky Mantra, for words are treacherous things
Marach Galthena: Nether Mantra deals great damage to those of little Faith. Believe and you shall be saved!
Beowulf Cadmus: Temples? Ah, where people worship the gods. Or perhaps the flat areas bracketing the forehead.
Meliadoul Tengille: What is love? Mayhap it is when you care more about someone else than you do about yourself.
Cloud Strife: It is concealed at the top of the volcano!
Construct 8: DOES NOT COMPUTE! CANNOT PROCESS COMMAND!
Balthier: No rest for the weary or wicked.
Luso: It's kind of fun never knowing what lies ahead!
Also certain enemy characters have a quote too for who knows why
Meliadoul Tengille (Enemy): On occasion, capes will protect you from rear attacks.
Argath Thadalfus (Deathknight): It's just one thing after another, isn't it?
Aliste Rosenheim: Come, come—no need to worry.
Bremondt Freitberg: No! B-begone, I say!
Bremondt Freitberg (Dark Dragon): I shall eat you up!
Also thanks to multiplayer missions Delita's assistant has a quote although again I just ask why?
Valmafra Lenande: As long as there are humans, so will there be witches among them.
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Baby don't hurt me, no more.
On the one hand, as far as everyone knows, Ramza and his people have killed the pope and two cardinals. That's not something that can just be pushed under the rag easily.
On the other hand, as far as everyone knows, Ramza and his people have killed the pope and two cardinals. If Agrias decides to join Ovelia, how many clergymen are even left to object?
I had to fight the urge to write that and stuck to just repeating it in my head.
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
None if they have any sense of self preservation.
"Object to the princess keeping a friend of Ramza's close at hand? Whysoever would I do that? Now please put the sword down ma'am."
