I wouldn't even claim it to be the funniest bug in the NES version (that honour goes to the LOCK spells, where the first level does absolutely nothing and the second level increases enemy evasion instead of lowering it.)
Overall the original version of FF1 is full of stuff like that because, again, Nasir had never made anything this big and he'd never made an RPG. Another classic is how critical hit rates aren't linked to the actual listed critical rates but rather your weapon's ID number. Which makes the new equipment from class changes even more important than it already was.
I don't know if that's it, but it does remind me that it's actually pretty cool that the first "quest" you get in this game is "go fight the strongest knight in the whole kingdom to save the princess," and then immediately segues into saving the world, with no rat-hunting busywork at low level.
Now that I think about it, was "go kill the rats in this cellar" ever really a thing in RPGs outside of games where it's used as a joke about how supposedly common it is? Or is it like all those "reincarnated as an otome game villainess" stories that are drawing from a cliché that never actually existed?
Generally, FF2 is famous for being the worst one in the series, although I've no idea how much it's been improved in the most recent version. And FF5 was, I believe, considered the best Final Fantasy ever for a while in Japan. So, there's at least some sort of discussion going on about those.
I also especially liked the original version of FF3, but not really the Dawn of Soul version (they streamlined things too much, was my take on it), and the original was infamous in its time for having three final dungeons back to back with no save points inside of them, so that one would have plenty of run-killer potential, if you were to play a version where that particular "feature" was preserved.
In any case, I've seen a lot of attempts at doing the FF Marathon let's play through the years, but not very many be successful, so I'm looking forward to see how this goes and wishing you the best of luck with it! It's been interesting so far, especially since this seems like a mostly-blind run, which makes it interesting to see what you can manage to figure out on your own. That's one of the most fun thing in a let's play for me.
Now that I think about it, was "go kill the rats in this cellar" ever really a thing in RPGs outside of games where it's used as a joke about how supposedly common it is? Or is it like all those "reincarnated as an otome game villainess" stories that are drawing from a cliché that never actually existed?
Not in a cellar, but they are a pretty common early dungeon random encounter. I think the basement part goes back to tabletop gaming before console RPGs hit the big time
Now that I think about it, was "go kill the rats in this cellar" ever really a thing in RPGs outside of games where it's used as a joke about how supposedly common it is? Or is it like all those "reincarnated as an otome game villainess" stories that are drawing from a cliché that never actually existed?
Dragon Age: Origins also had the first quest in the Human Noble origin be clearing rats out of a larder, although it's played with slightly in that instead of being a low-level adventurer chore requested by some quest-giver, you just happen to be in the larder trying to convince your dog to leave when a dozen rats jump you out of nowhere.
Now that I think about it, was "go kill the rats in this cellar" ever really a thing in RPGs outside of games where it's used as a joke about how supposedly common it is? Or is it like all those "reincarnated as an otome game villainess" stories that are drawing from a cliché that never actually existed?
Yeah, they are Giant Rats not normal rats; you can even occasionally see much, much smaller normal rats scuttling around. I've been playing the Steam version recently.
Also the rat extermination does lead neatly into the rest of the plot, both because they are in the way of getting deeper and because the question of what drove the rats into the cellar is raised.
It feels like every post 2000ish WRPG did it because it was a funny joke about uninventive DMs, but now it's a self perpetuating meme because that "the first quest."
Oblivion had one that was poking fun at the prevalence of it as something that was poked fun at, even, IIRC; you get sent down into a lady's basement to save her pet giant rats from something that was killing them (some sort of lion?).
Oblivion had one that was poking fun at the prevalence of it as something that was poked fun at, even, IIRC; you get sent down into a lady's basement to save her pet giant rats from something that was killing them (some sort of lion?).
Yes, there was also a rat-hating Argonian involved. Part of the joke is that she has the same family name as an NPC in Morrowind who gives a rat quest (and has an obsession with pillows).
I also especially liked the original version of FF3, but not really the Dawn of Soul version (they streamlined things too much, was my take on it), and the original was infamous in its time for having three final dungeons back to back with no save points inside of them, so that one would have plenty of run-killer potential, if you were to play a version where that particular "feature" was preserved.
In any case, I've seen a lot of attempts at doing the FF Marathon let's play through the years, but not very many be successful, so I'm looking forward to see how this goes and wishing you the best of luck with it! It's been interesting so far, especially since this seems like a mostly-blind run, which makes it interesting to see what you can manage to figure out on your own. That's one of the most fun thing in a let's play for me.
I've seen a few FF Marathon runs, and the common point between all of them is they all stalled out (or at least slowed down considerably) at FFIII. Specifically, the 3D remake of FFIII that was originally for the DS.
Which matches with my own impressions of FFIII 3D: it's been a long time since I last tried it, and I can't recall why I disliked it so much, but my vague recollection was that it was "tedious". I think there was no auto-battle or fast-forwarding of battles, so the encounter rate just meant I had to mindlessly and manually grind through enemies.
The FF Marathon attempts I saw which succeeded (or are in the process of succeeding) either abandon FFIII 3D and move on to FFIV (whichever version), or just turn off their brain and stop chronicling their experiences, only mentioning at the end that they've finished the game and "good riddance".
I do wonder if FFIII Pixel Remaster is worth picking up, though. I hear that it's a better version than FFIII 3D, although I don't know the details of why it's better. I also hear that it's still not as good as FFV, and that if I want to play FFIII I might as well play FFV.
I've seen a few FF Marathon runs, and the common point between all of them is they all stalled out (or at least slowed down considerably) at FFIII. Specifically, the 3D remake of FFIII that was originally for the DS.
Which matches with my own impressions of FFIII 3D: it's been a long time since I last tried it, and I can't recall why I disliked it so much, but my vague recollection was that it was "tedious". I think there was no auto-battle or fast-forwarding of battles, so the encounter rate just meant I had to mindlessly and manually grind through enemies.
The FF Marathon attempts I saw which succeeded (or are in the process of succeeding) either abandon FFIII 3D and move on to FFIV (whichever version), or just turn off their brain and stop chronicling their experiences, only mentioning at the end that they've finished the game and "good riddance".
I do wonder if FFIII Pixel Remaster is worth picking up, though. I hear that it's a better version than FFIII 3D, although I don't know the details of why it's better. I also hear that it's still not as good as FFV, and that if I want to play FFIII I might as well play FFV.
FF3 DS, while my favorite version due to the chibis, expansion on job abilities, and difficulty, is a slow game. Job leveling is by actions in battle, so you have to spam attack with weapons off on stronger foes or chain weak one to power level jobs which gets tedious if you want to level one with every new crystal.
Then every time you change jobs you're weaker for 5ish battles, which kinda kills the fun of being able to have so many jobs.
FF3 PR doesn't have the weakness on switching, pulls more from the NES version for job abilities, seems to have an modestly expanded story iirc, and the job leveling isn't quite as bad. The final boss is very much a brick wall though. Either you can survive or you die pretty quickly. You also get the ultimate jobs very very late, when FF3 DS which gave them a little earlier.
While most of that is all true, and all valid reasons why the DS version isn't really a good update but rather a bad one, my personal primary problem was the restructuring of the dungeons. While more visually pleasing (3D instead of pixelated, very nice-looking graphics), there's no exploration to be had, with complex areas that had interesting layout turned into straight corridors; basically, it abandoned the original feel to go for a FFXIII approach, and the game just doesn't have the level of complexity its battle system would require to support that.
If the PR version is more similar to the original and didn't use the restructured dungeons, it'll probably be alright.
I mean, FF3's map aren't that interesting. They pretty much dissolve into blank screens of hidden passages at the end. The zoom in sparkle system was a cooler way of finding secrets than PR's super map.
The DS version added a lot of new job mechanics to the game, which PR removed some of, bringing it much closer to FFV's job system then the NES ed. was. The story and personality additions came in this version as well.
But PR is way better for a casual playthrough with it's faster battle speed and leveling. I just feel it loses a lot of the charm of the full remake.
Here's the situation: we have a warp stone. We do not know how to use the warp stone. We do not know where to find the Rosetta Stone. We do not know where to find the oxygen supply to reach the Sunken Shrine. We know, essentially, nothing.
Oh, uh, incidentally.
Booting up the game this time is the first time I remember there is an Extra entry in the menu, and within that Extra entry is…
…the Bestiary, which I somehow forgot about this entire time.
The fact that it's in the starting menu but not accessible in-game is a bit annoying! But this is neat information. Not sure how much use I have for it (the only info I really care about from a problem-solving perspective is bosses, and you only get their data after beating them, so…) but it's there and it's neat.
Without a clear objective, I wander about the overworld. Since the spooky desert tower is the last overworld place I haven't explored yet, I decide to head there, and…
…it's locked. I can't enter it. NPC dialogue reveals that this is the "mirage tower," and that people aren't able to enter it and have given it its name because they doubt it is "real."
Thankfully, some more frantic zooming around the sky reveals that there is one more location I missed this whole time! Nested in a ring of mountains (meaning it's inaccessible on foot, only by airship, and townsfolk do wonder at how I managed to reach them), is the town of Gaia, the "Eye of the Hawk."
Gaia turns out to be a pretty nice place, with shops selling lv 8 magic (this is the highest level of magic in the game) and some pretty sweet items that are suddenly making my enormous hoard of gil seem woefully small.
Buying three Ruby Armlets to equip my party would wipe out my entire savings.
Wait, actually, hold up.
See that above? Stop, Warp, Kill?
Can any FF1 veteran tell me if those are actually useful at all before I spend my hard-earned gil on them?
The game going "this is the highest level of spell so it's all instadeath and screen-wide paralysis" is like… conceptually it's neat, but… Those are never going to work on bosses, yeah? And so far I have yet to meet a mob encounter that doesn't get wiped by a Flare cast. Do I really have any use for those spells?
Well, in the meantime, there's a plot hook!
There's a small pool of water at the north of the town, and some asshole abducted and sold the fairy that lived there:
What a dick.
He sold the fairy to a "caravan." Unfortunately, I do not have any idea where that caravan is, and it does not appear in the overworld.
Eventually, I grow frustrated, and a friend tells me that it's in "a desert." So I land and wander through every desert area in the game.
This feels very stupid.
I still don't find it, so I go and look for the specific spot I have to be in, and it turns out that I went through the right desert, I just missed it by like one pixel.
It's exactly one step above this specific spot and nowhere else. Note the total absence of landmark.
But hey, at least I found the caravan!
The bottled fairy costs 40k gil, so it's a good thing I didn't end up spending all my money on gear.
Well, now that I have the fairy, time to go back to Gaia! (weird that this is just a town name btw)
You know, I do wonder as to the geopolitics of this world.
Obviously, the ongoing apocalypse is messing things up. But in towns, people seem to manage to hold out fairly well - but these towns are very few, and isolated, fortified spots amidst barren wastelands. Weirdly enough the primary form of political organization seems to be some kind of commune. Cornelia has a formal hereditary monarchy with a king, but it appears to operate as a city-state rather than a kingdom proper. Other towns appear to function independently - when I defeated Captain Bikke, Pravoka did not go back to a previous ruler, they went back to whatever they were doing before, without an obvious king or mayor or whatnot. Communication between communities appears fairly strained.
This guy, this caravan dude, seems to be the sole operating travelling merchant in the world. And yet he seems able to travel through mountains and oceans with ease. Strange.
Anyway.
As soon as I enter the town, a cutscene starts playing…
The fairy is freed from the bottle and returns to her spring, where, upon interaction, she thanks me for saving her and rewards me with the "oxyale," a jar of magical water that continuously generates oxygen, meaning I can use the submersible!
I wasn't expecting it so I couldn't screenshot it, but after this line of dialogue the girl floats away and vanishes, hinting that she's some kind of spirit or ghost.
I like the submersible bit. It's an entertaining sidequest idea and it makes sense the Water Shrine would be underwater.
The Sunken Shrine doesn't have a particular gimmick aside from all the enemies being water-type, meaning is Thundaga time. I'm just blasting through every encounter with lightning; Papalymo is really getting a workout. At this stage his bodycount has far outstripped that of Yda and Alisaie together.
A few of the Sunken Shrine's enemies. Note the D&D-accurate Naga design; mythological Naga come in a variety of forms but D&D is as far as I know the only fantasy franchise to depict them in this relatively goofy way.
The Sunken Shrine doesn't prove to be much trouble. As you can see, all the enemies are colored blue (literally all of them aside from Sahagin, it's actually kind of funny), and lightning spells tear through the opposition. The most annoying thing is that it's half a replay of Marsh Cave with a ton of poison encounters, but at this point I have essentially infinite poison heals, so it's just a mild nuisance.
This is the map I was mentioning in the previous post. Note a peculiarity of how it works: if I'm inside a room, the map reveals every room on the floor and their contents, meaning I know exactly which rooms have chests and so on. Here, the map revealed the Crystal room the moment I entered the floor.
And at the end of the dungeon, what awaits us but the Fiend of Water, Kraken!
He's actually the first antagonist in the game to show the Warriors of Light something approaching respect. It's also interesting that "Fiend of [Element]" appears to be a name they're willingly taking for themselves, rather than externally imposed. I wonder where Kraken came from.
This is a goof-ass design, though.
Unfortunately, Kraken runs into the problem of being the first Fiend fought post class change and all the grinding that came with it.
My strategy was actually kind of funny.
You see, there is a lv 7 Black Wizard spell called "Saber." It can only target the caster, and causes a massive improvement in weapon damage and accuracy. My assumption is that it was meant as a kind of "Mordenkainen's Transformation" spell - the kind of spell where due to enemy resistance or running low on spell slots your wizard can't fulfill their normal function, so you spend one slot to make them decent-ish physical damage dealers and have them move to an attack position. It's a decent niche, if obviated by the plentiful Ether supplies the game now grants me and the shortness of the fight.
However, one of the items found in the Sunken Shrine, literally moments before the Kraken Fight, are the Giant's Gloves. The Giant's Gloves are a usable item like the Healing Staff or the Defender sword; you use them from the inventory and they cause the user to cast Saber on themselves. They have infinite uses, and while they can't be used more than once per turn, they can be used repeatedly throughout a fight.
This means that on the first turn, Yda casts Saber on herself, Alisaie casts Haste on Yda, Alphinaud casts Protera on everyone, and Papalymo casts Haste on Alisaie. On turn 2, Yda attacks for 800+ damage, Alisaie casts Saber on herself, Alphinaud casts Invisibility on everyone, and Alphinaud casts Flare for 400+ damage. On turn 3, Alisaie goes first, hits Kraken for 800+ damage and the encounter is over.
So, yeah. We're having sashimi tonight, goddamn.
You might note that my HP totals on the first and last turn are identical. That is because Kraken attempted two party wide-debuffs (Ink, which blinds everyone it hits), then died before taking a third turn.
I like the little victory poses the Warriors of Light strike after cleansing a crystal. It gives them a little bit of personality.
With this done, I promptly cast Exit, teleporting back to town!
…
Then I realize that I did not find any key item.
You know, like the kind I would need to actually progress the plot.
Then I remember @Tempera last night telling me "the Rosetta Stone is the Sunken Shrine reward."
Rubbing my face in my hand with a groan of frustration at my own memory, I head right back to the Sunken Shrine.
Which turns out to be a good thing, anyway. Because guess what I missed completely my entire first run?
The zone with the NPCs.
Yeah, it turns out this whole time, Kraken was keeping the mermaids who inhabit the shrines prisoner in cells. Having slain the fiend, they thank me for their newfound freedom. This is nice. I like this bit, that one of the shrines is an actual inhabited place with people to rescue.
Also these mermaids work on Christian Andersen rules where they're not, like, biological beings but turn to seafoam if they die??? Weird deet.
In any case, the place turns out to be full of loot. Most of which looks pretty valuable… and is useless. There is a full set of Diamond defensive gear, which can only be equipped by a Warrior (maybe a Ninja? I don't have one of those), and is thus as useful to me as a pile of bricks. Still, there's another magic item, and the Giant's Gloves make up for many shortcomings.
Eventually I figure out that my final goal is in this little cell all the way to the top right…
…which is completely cut off from where I'm standing by spots of water.
Until, that is, I realize the place obeys non-Euclidian geometry. You see that little straight corridor at the top corner of the image? There is another similar corridor at the top left, on the other side of the room… And going through one causes you to arrive through the other, without screen transition, as if the entire room was spherical and I'd just done the Risk play of crossing from Alaska into Kamchatka.
Wild.
And there it is!
I thought I'd do like the first time and cover two Shrines in one update, but honestly this is a nice cut-off point, I think.
We land in an interesting position - at this point I have my characters almost fully stocked on the highest tier of gear money can buy, and they have access to the highest levels of spells. I have a pretty accomplished party of murder machines with strong support/healing, even if they're all fairly fragile (but less so with Ruby Armlets which I didn't even have during Sunken Shrine). I wonder if the challenge is going to rise, or if Marilith was effectively the peak until the final boss?
Well, we'll find out next time, when we translate the Lufenian language and hopefully slay the Fiend of Air!
In the meantime please do give me your tips on which of the high-level spells are actually wort husing.
They aren't. That's the problem with high-level black magic, really—it's mostly just instant death spells that you'll never get to stick against anything you want to instakill.
Kill does have the interesting property of always working on enemies that can be instakilled and have less than 300 HP, but naturally you don't really care about that because 300 HP is nothing by the time you can get it. And, you know, the bit about how you need to find something it works on in the first place.
For the record the best level 8 spells are Flare, Holy, and Arise/Full-Life (not sure what they're calling it here because this script was written before they changed it). NulAll and Dispel might have a few edge cases where you'd use them but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
I personally would also buy Warp in the NES version despite its usefulness because it's called ZAP! there and I just think it's amusing to have a spell called ZAP!
You see, there is a lv 7 Black Wizard spell called "Saber." It can only target the caster, and causes a massive improvement in weapon damage and accuracy. My assumption is that it was meant as a kind of "Mordenkainen's Transformation" spell - the kind of spell where due to enemy resistance or running low on spell slots your wizard can't fulfill their normal function, so you spend one slot to make them decent-ish physical damage dealers and have them move to an attack position. It's a decent niche, if obviated by the plentiful Ether supplies the game now grants me and the shortness of the fight.
However, one of the items found in the Sunken Shrine, literally moments before the Kraken Fight, are the Giant's Gloves. The Giant's Gloves are a usable item like the Healing Staff or the Defender sword; you use them from the inventory and they cause the user to cast Saber on themselves. They have infinite uses, and while they can't be used more than once per turn, they can be used repeatedly throughout a fight.
This means that on the first turn, Yda casts Saber on herself, Alisaie casts Haste on Yda, Alphinaud casts Protera on everyone, and Papalymo casts Haste on Alisaie. On turn 2, Yda attacks for 800+ damage, Alisaie casts Saber on herself, Alphinaud casts Invisibility on everyone, and Alphinaud casts Flare for 400+ damage. On turn 3, Alisaie goes first, hits Kraken for 800+ damage and the encounter is over.
Saber is great (as is its low-level version, Temper) but only in the remakes. Both versions of it were accidentally not connected to anything in the NES version so they just sorta exist. The fact that they actually work in the remakes ends up being an interesting difference between the old and new versions in terms of what strategies you end up using.
However, one of the items found in the Sunken Shrine, literally moments before the Kraken Fight, are the Giant's Gloves. The Giant's Gloves are a usable item like the Healing Staff or the Defender sword; you use them from the inventory and they cause the user to cast Saber on themselves. They have infinite uses, and while they can't be used more than once per turn, they can be used repeatedly throughout a fight.
This means that on the first turn, Yda casts Saber on herself, Alisaie casts Haste on Yda, Alphinaud casts Protera on everyone, and Papalymo casts Haste on Alisaie. On turn 2, Yda attacks for 800+ damage, Alisaie casts Saber on herself, Alphinaud casts Invisibility on everyone, and Alphinaud casts Flare for 400+ damage. On turn 3, Alisaie goes first, hits Kraken for 800+ damage and the encounter is over.
The next update will be slightly delayed by the fact that I got literally nuked by an ancient death machine with an abysmal encounter rate and am currently pacing back and forth on the bridge of the Flying Fortress so I can meet it again and get my revenge.
The next update will be slightly delayed by the fact that I got literally nuked by an ancient death machine with an abysmal encounter rate and am currently pacing back and forth on the bridge of the Flying Fortress so I can meet it again and get my revenge.
Ah, WarMech, first real hidden superboss of JRPGs. Only boss in the game truly tougher than it is Chaos himself, basically.
I'm genuinely astonished they've never retconned it into being Omega the way they retconned the Lufainian inventor of the airship into being a Cid.
Worth noting is that some of its attacks were literally twice as strong in the NES version - its attack stat in all remakes is 128, whereas the wiki gives its attack stat for the NES version as being 128 to 256.
