The only videogame puzzles I respect are Silent Hill's, because they're supposed to be weird and illogical bullshit. It ends up making them a lot more entertaining.
Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Playing: Final Fantasy IX]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
God was it not. Nenio's final character dungeon came close to killing my first run and I've never worked up the effort to try and do it a second time, secret ending or no.
I never even got to Nenio's final dungeon because at least one of the key items for it can be lost to world state changes if you don't know to get them at your first opportunity. And they don't tell you where to even be looking for them.
So yeah, I'd love to help you gain universal knowledge Nenio, but your quest is ass.
So yeah, I'd love to help you gain universal knowledge Nenio, but your quest is ass.
Owlcat continues to labor under the false assumption that they make good puzzles.
Deciding to make a character's questline entirely about puzzles had wholly predictable results.
Which is a shame, because Nenio is a really fun companion.
Deciding to make a character's questline entirely about puzzles had wholly predictable results.
Which is a shame, because Nenio is a really fun companion.
- Location
- Amman, Jordan
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Where's that quote from Wields-Rulebooks-Heavily's LP of Limbo of the Lost again...?
"I mean, there's a reason the expression 'needle in a haystack' is used for a hopeless task no one in their right minds would undertake unless they had hours to while away in mindless drudgery. An excellent adventure game has no haystacks. A good adventure game probably gives you a magnet. A bad one makes you look at straw for seven hours. This game is nothing but haystacks, and sometimes the needles are made of straw."
Like you said, a good adventure game has no need for haystacks, nor of "gotcha" moments where not finding one specific item effectively dooms your gameplay and you have to start all over again. Sadly, a lot of old games had this problem, either because nobody realized yet what a complete dick move this would prove, or because of hardware limitations.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't really get it, tbh. Has there ever been, like, a sustained praise-campaign of their puzzles by players?
I just looked up/look up the solutions and feel literally zero guilt.
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
I forgot something that I wanted to mention - make sure to equip and use this one often. For most of the first disk, Steal can procure a large amount of items that aren't otherwise available for a bit; nothing overpowering, and it grows less useful as the game progresses, but at the point where you are right now, especially against the more unique or rarest enemy types, it's a worthwhile power-booster.
In fact, while I would like other people to comment on this, I think FFVII is probably either second or third in "usefulness of the steal command", isn't it? Or am I misremembering things?
Guile
Having a really great time right now
First, a grain of salt: I'm pretty bad at math.
But if I understand it correctly: Steal's math makes success rate semi-random, but mostly comes down to your level versus your opponent's level. If you're level 50 and your enemy is level 25, you might have a 20% chance to steal something from them.
BUT, because the chance goes "Steal Item in slot 1 -> Steal Item in slot 2 -> Steal item in slot 3", with the rare item usually being in slot 2 or 3, it's possible to get overleveled enough (or if you're using the Steal Glove that sets your level at +60) to overshoot your best chances to get the rare item and loop back around to it being IMPOSSIBLE to steal the rare, because you always steal the common item first. If you're a level 50 trying to steal from a level 25 creature with the Steal Gloves on, you're absolutely getting the common item every time.
But if I understand it correctly: Steal's math makes success rate semi-random, but mostly comes down to your level versus your opponent's level. If you're level 50 and your enemy is level 25, you might have a 20% chance to steal something from them.
BUT, because the chance goes "Steal Item in slot 1 -> Steal Item in slot 2 -> Steal item in slot 3", with the rare item usually being in slot 2 or 3, it's possible to get overleveled enough (or if you're using the Steal Glove that sets your level at +60) to overshoot your best chances to get the rare item and loop back around to it being IMPOSSIBLE to steal the rare, because you always steal the common item first. If you're a level 50 trying to steal from a level 25 creature with the Steal Gloves on, you're absolutely getting the common item every time.
- Location
- Texas
Then we get into an elevator, where Barret takes advantage of the cramped confines to further evangelize to Cloud.
Cloud: "It's not my problem."
Barret: "The planet's dyin', Cloud!"
Cloud: "The only thing I care about is finishing this job before security and the Roboguards come."
At this point Barret turns to the camera and silently shakes his fist in anger.
Rather late, but I just realized Barret was giving Cloud a literal elevator pitch. Tough luck this time, but I'm sure a few public speaking classes will help you convince him, Barret. And now I'm imagining ShinRa scientists running an online community college program as a side hustle.
somewhatLazy
Serial Procrastinator
- Location
- lurking
Given the sort of science and engineering projects we've seen Shinra field so far, I suspect if they ever bothered it'd be some sort of Mad Education community college program. Maybe designing a cute robot owl to give everyone encouragement through adorable congratulations and also tracking you down to your home when you slack off to watch you in the night?
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- Singular They
This post made me have to double-check that I've done my Duolingo daily.
Final Fantasy VII, Part 5: The Fall of Sector 7
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Welcome back to Final Fantasy VII!
Last time, we made it out of Wall Market only barely in time to learn that Shinra is planning to collapse the Sector 7 plate, and we must race through the train graveyard in order to reach the pillar before they can do it. To do this, we must navigate a maze of train rooftops through ladders and railways.
On the way, we fight a bunch of bugs, lizards, the occasional stranded robot, and, ah, yes…
Ghosts.
What these ghosts are supposed to mean for the general metaphysics of the setting, or why they're haunting a train graveyard, I have no idea. Maybe they're train ghosts?
The train/ghost connection is interesting, though, because it's coming back from FFVI. Not in any way near as obvious as "train that literally carries the dead," but there's a train "graveyard" and it contains ghost, so it's clearly a theme that the series is angling for, and I'm not sure where it's coming from - there's no cultural association between trains and ghosts that I'm aware of in either Japan or the West, so this genuinely seems like a homemade idea. And that's cool! I like it.
There's a fairly straightforward puzzle where we have to move trains to push other trains to unlock the path forward, which is mainly interesting because of how it allows us to see an environment which uses the same items (trains) as both pre-rendered (those that don't move) and not-pre-rendered (those we have to move), resulting in that slightly uncanny effect:
It's incredibly obvious that these trains are modeled differently, and in this 2013 port, the in-engine trains have somewhat upscaled graphics that make them look better than the background, possibly? It's complicated; the pre-rendered trains have much more care put into creating the feeling of relief and depth to their little details, but the in-engine trains, which are clearer and with more detailing, are also very obviously smooth tubes with all the details painted on. If we look at footage that isn't upscaled, though, the trains are much more heavily pixelated compared to the background, making it more obvious why pre-rendering what could be pre-rendered was considered preferable.
Soon enough, we're back at the edge of Sector 7.
The faithful train conductor, or controller, or whatever he is, can't bear to leave the station even as he's heard that the plate was about to fall. How could he have heard about it, you ask?
Well, the answer is that we're late and the party's already started.
The Pillar is already under attack, with Avalanche holding the line; Barret is engaged in a live shoot-out with the (unseen) assaillant, and just as we arrive, Wedge falls off the top of the pillar.
Wedge: "...Cloud. You remembered… My name. Barret's up top. …Help him… An' Cloud… Sorry, I wasn't any help."
Damn. RIP, Wedge. The callback between Cloud's first lines in the game commenting that he doesn't need to learn anyone's name because he'll be out after this one job and him now calling out Wedge's name in concern as he's lying there dying is a really neat touch.
Or "dying." Cloud seems to believe he can make it, and asks Aerith to take care of him. Well, she is the Healer Girl. Tifa also asks Aerith to please go find Marlene at the 7th Heaven and put her somewhere safe.
Yeah, if the plate's about to collapse, grabbing your loved ones and fleeing is what makes sense, even if our protagonists are going to try and prevent such an event from occurring in the first place.
Tifa, making use of her role as a local fixture, warns everyone to stay away from the pillar and to leave Sector 7, then we head for the pillar.
There's this honestly funny exchange where this guy is like 'I have to stay here, it's my job' and the girl is like 'oooh I love me a man with a sense of duty, what are you doing later.'
It looks like Biggs fell as well, the way he's draped over the rail.
This is actually a question he's asking; we can choose to answer 'Nope, not interested" or "You're wounded…" Basically the game is giving us the choice of whether to have Cloud double down on the 'aloof merc' persona or show that he actually cares. Telling Biggs he's injured results in him thanking Cloud, and telling him not to worry about him and to go help Barret.
It looks like Shinra bypassed local slum security by using airborne troops, including, huh, these goofy motherfuckers:
They're soldiers with helicopter hands who fight using propeller blades as swords. Ridiculous.
Then, halfway up the tower, we find the last of the three non-playable Avalanche members:
The Jessie bit is probably the strongest of the three. Our two choices are "Don't say 'last'" and "Is that so?" The first option leads to Jessie telling Cloud that it's alright - because of Avalanche's actions, many people died, and this must be their punishment. This is the first time in the game that an Avalanche member acknowledges the human cost of their action, and it's when facing death and finding some measure of peace for the guilt they've secretly felt for their actions. That's heavy stuff, man. But perhaps even stronger, if crueler, is what she says if we choose to feign indifference:
Jessie: "Ah… Cool… as usual… ex-... SOLDIER. …always…I liked that… in you…"
There's a kind of… vulnerability to that admission that Cloud's uncaring affect was, after all, working on Jessie. That she's the one person who genuinely did feel that was cool, who secretly kind of liked that fantasy of the cold-hearted soldier who doesn't care about her, only openly admitting it now, in her last moments. It's like… It's sad in a way that's poignantly human?
I get why Remake Jessie is so uncontrollably thirsty. It's a lot of characterization to spin out of a few lines she was in the original, but I genuinely like Jessie in both games.
Then we reach the top of the pillar, where Barret has been fighting off Shinra troops.
In a shocking show of convenience for a Final Fantasy game of that era, we actually get a chance to open the menu during the dialogue so that we can equip our party - most importantly, to equip Barret with new gear and materia, since he's been out of the group since the Mako Reactor 5 sequence. Not that there's too much of a gap, but it's good to make sure everyone has a Restore Materia equipped.
Then the enemy comes flying in on a helicopter, and everyone just stands around helplessly while Reno reaches the pillar controls.
Barret, you literally have a gun. Could literally nobody prevent this? But no, they don't, and Reno does push that button.
Tifa cries that we have to disarm it, and we engage combat with Reno for the first time.
Reno's combat model makes it even more obvious that he's meant to come across as a yakuza thug - I love his pose in particular, with his hand on his hip and his weapon slung over his shoulder. In case it's not clear what his weapon is, it's an electric baton - the perfect pick for a character who's meant to come across as a literal leg-breaker who spends his time beating people up and probably tases them when he needs to abduct a target. Reno is a fairly simple boss with one gimmick:
His move 'pyramid' targets one of our characters and puts them in a, well, pyramid; while in the pyramid, they cannot act and their ATB gauge doesn't fill up. Reno taunts us to 'try and break it if you can' and, indeed, the solution is as easy as directing our next physical attack against the affected character, which breaks the pyramid and frees them. I'm not clear on what the pyramid is, but I'm going to guess some kind of robot-deployed force field? Other than occasionally taking a break to deal with pyramids, Reno is fairly simple to deal with, especially with new Limit Breaks.
What an ugly mug.
Once we've dealt him enough damage, Reno breaks off and runs away from the fight; he leaps over the pillar's rail while Tifa chases after him, but she's not quick enough and he escapes, leaving the room to deal with the time bomb he's set up. Tifa exclaims that she doesn't know how to stop it and asks Cloud for help, and he remarks that it's "not a normal time bomb" - just in time for a new villain to make a dramatic entrance.
This guy is Tseng, who appears to be some kind of Shinra executive. It's not clear what his position is - what matters is that he's here to gloat about how the bomb will explode the moment some "stupid jerk" (weirdly familiar choice of words for a guy who clearly thinks highly of himself; the retranslation goes with "silly fool" which seems more appropriate, and also emphasizes that "you'll have a hard TIME disarming it" is meant to be a stupid pun) touches it, and about how he has Aerith captive, kneeling right there on that weird side platform his chopper has.
The reason why that bomb is not so easily disarmed, it turns out, is that it's not a bomb at all. It's the "Emergency Plate Release System" - essentially a self-destruct function for the Pillar. Now, if you think it's slightly fucked up that Shinra would install a self-destruct function whose only potential use is "killing our own population and destroying half of our city," well, you're right. But it's Shinra we're talking about. They're the embodiment of the particular kind of government who, facing a popular revolution, would sooner nuke their own country rather than endure the pain of no longer being in power. Of course they built a failsafe to collapse their entire city in the event of it turning against them.
Barret immediately does what he should have done when President Shinra first showed up, and attempts to shoot down Tseng, who immediately points out that he's firing into the direction of his 'special guest' - Aerith. Cloud asks what he intends to do with Aerith, and Tseng replies that he doesn't know or care - his orders were simply to find the "last remaining Ancient," and that's done. Notably this is an exchange where we really get a glimpse as to how the translator's process had them do a lot of their work without context from the game; in the original translation Tseng says "I haven't decided" what to do with Aerith, whereas in the fanmade Retranslation mod he says "Who knows?" - the first translation is wrong because it implies that Tseng will decide what to do with Aerith, he just hasn't decided yet, whereas the latter makes it clear that it's beyond the remit of his job and so he doesn't care. This is a good example of how some lines are very obviously weird when reinserted into their context, where they just don't match with what the characters are saying.
Aerith then finally speaks up and, in a strong bit of character writing, it's not at all to express concern over her own safety, but instead to reassure Tifa that "Don't worry, she's alright" (the fact that she doesn't mention Marlene by name will be relevant shortly); Tifa immediately reaches for the railing to try and take hold of Aerith.
It's like the writers saw my complaints about Celes and Terra and immediately set out to fix them. The fact that Aerith met once, in a context where they could easily have acted jealous towards one another over Cloud and instead immediately swear to be each other's BFF and proceed to act like it is very good.
Tseng then taunts the group with how the self-destruct is imminent and whether they think they can escape, and the helicopter flies off even as the pillar starts to explode.
Gigantic chunks of concrete are falling from the sky, but Barret has the idea of using one of these cables you can see helping hold the platform as a swinging rope; the whole group pile together and launch themselves off the pillar, Spider-Man style, shortly before the game goes in for the big money shot - the collapse of the Plate and the destruction of Sector 7, in full FMV pre-rendered glory.
President Shinra overlooks the destruction without so much as batting an eyelid.
The visuals make it clear that the top of the plate is inhabited, and from prior dialogue, we know it's inhabited by the upper class - it didn't save them when Shinra decided their sacrifice would be profitable.
This doesn't feel like a good move on Shinra's part, tbh. There is absolutely no way the benefits of deliberately destroying one eighth of their city outweigh the costs. But who cares? They don't have to follow rational self-interest. They're Shinra. They own the world. I don't think anyone reading this is going to think that behavior is implausible, but if you do, I'd like to direct you to "looking out your window."
It's a pretty strong scene, really showcasing the potential of 3D cinematics to convey, well, cinematic displays of grandiose destruction.
Our group wake up at the edge of Sector 7 - in that very same children's playground where Aerith and Cloud stopped to talk, in that fateful moment before spotting Aerith and derailing the plot.
Barret bangs against the burning wall of wreckage shouting the names of Marlene and the Avalanche members, in a pretty potent scene of grief, shouting out in despair, before Tifa and Cloud rush to try and comfort him - Tifa explains what Barret couldn't have known - when she said "she's alright," Aerith likely meant Marlene, whom Tifa asked her to take to safety. But Barret, who's never met Aerith, would have had no way of knowing that, so he genuinely thought his daughter was dead. Even after learning about this, though, things aren't exactly rosy:
The three Avalanche members, Jessie, Biggs and Wedge, have almost definitely perished in the collapse - they were all grievously injured and on or around the pillar station. And with them, countless minor, nameless characters, inhabitants of Sector 7, have perished as well.
It's… honestly unclear if anyone might have survived at all; the upper plate appears to have been a single block, which literally dropped down onto the layer below. Everyone in the slum would have been squished instantly, and everyone above the plate would have had to survive the impact of the plate with the floor. The picture is… grim.
Tifa asks aloud if this is their fault, if all these innocents lost their lives because Avalanche was there, and Barret dismisses the very thought - nobody is responsible for Shinra's sins but Shinra. And honestly, he's right. The cost and consequences of Avalanche's terrorism is to be found in the impact of the destroyed reactors on people's lives, not on a wildly unpredictable and out-of-scope counterterrorist response of 'nuke the damn city.' Governments threatened by terrorism typically crack down in ways that hurt bystanders as collateral, and that's something you have to be prepared for, but this is an insane escalation.
Barret launches into a heated, passionate speech about Shinra's greed and evil and the need to destroy them once and for all. Tifa is… unsure how she feels about that.
Barret turns to Cloud to ask him how he feels, but Cloud doesn't respond; he simply heads off screen, towards the buried highway to Sector 5. Barret and Tifa catch up with him, asking him if he's going to help the captured Aerith, and Cloud says he will, but first, there is something he must know - about the Ancients. And then, he has another flashback. No words, just a single sentence:
As these words come to his mind, Cloud mutters the name "Sephiroth..?" and then falls to his knees - but he doesn't pass out, so that's progress!
Anyway, that's a supervillain line. Like, nobody calls themselves "the rightful heir to this planet" and is a good guy. But, hm, "rightful heir to this planet" doesn't quite match the vibe I got of Sephiroth over the years, who seemed to be more of a nihilist? That's interesting, we'll see where the game is going with that.
Anyway, we now have control of the group once more and can head to Sector 6. The inhabitants have new dialogue to reflect their awareness of the disaster that just unfolded, all of it tinged with the kind of fatalistic resignation of people who've internalized that this is just their lot in life - sometimes death comes from nowhere at all in Midgar, and where else would you go? Bleak.
That kid we chose not to steal 5 gil from is a lot more excited, though, because he bought a new item with the money he saved, and he's giving it to us for no reason!
Okay kid, step 1 to following your dream: Don't hand out valuable items you invested money in to strangers for no reward.
Said item is a Turbo Ether, so that's nice.
Our objective here isn't any of these guys, though - it's Aerith's house. It's time to get some answers out of her mom.
Elmyra: "It's about Aerith, isn't it?"
Cloud: "Sorry. The Shinra have her."
Elmyra: "I know. They took her from here."
Cloud: "They were here?"
Elmyra: "That's what Aerith wanted…"
Cloud: "Why is Shinra after Aerith?"
Elmyra: "Aerith is an Ancient. The sole survivor…"
Barret: "What did you say? But, aren't you her mother?"
Elmyra: "Not her real mother. …It must have been 15 years ago… During the war. My husband was sent to the front. Some far away place called Wutai. One day, I went to the station because I got a letter saying he was coming home on leave. "
Elmyra watches as, one by one, happy couples are reunited, only for the train to leave without her husband ever coming out. It's pretty good visual storytelling. Wondering why he hadn't come, Elmyra would come to the station day after day, hoping to see him, but he never did. Instead, she one day stumbled upon a woman and child:
The mother, whose long hair and pretty dress mark her as having Anime Important Character Syndrome, was dying. Of what is left unsaid, but Elmyra says "you used to see this sort of thing often during the war." The woman's last words were to plead for Elmyra to take her daughter somewhere safe; Elmyra, lonely and without her husband, decided to take Aerith home with her.
Hmmm. That's our first mention of Wutai in this game, and it shows that Shinra does engage in conventional warfare against other nations. I'll be interested to hear more about that. Aerith being described as the "sole survivor" rather than, like, "last living Ancient" suggests the others died in a violent event of some kind, which would pair well with her mom seemingly dying of violent cause trying to get her daughter some place safe? Maybe Shinra tried to capture the last hidden Ancient enclave and ended up accidentally killing everybody instead because they're hacks whose elite corps are basically corporate-sponsored yakuza.
Elmyra and Aerith grew close very quickly, Aerith having an incredibly talkative personality, even if some of the things she talks about are weird, like, huh:
Okay, "escaped from a Shinra laboratory," good to have that clarified. Elmyra is confused by the phrasing of "returned to the Planet," which makes me wonder what are the Midgarian beliefs regarding the afterlife. Given the retrofuturistic hellscape, ruined church, and mining of the planet's lifeblood, I'm leaning towards the assumption that people hold broadly materialistic beliefs that reject the existence of a 'soul' or the continuation of existence after death; whereas Aerith, and one assumes the Ancients as a whole, believe that with existence, the soul or something like it "returns to the planet" in some way which represents a kind of afterlife.
There are… interesting conclusions that could be drawn from that, and I don't know if I would draw these conclusions if I didn't have some of my pre-existing knowledge of the game. If you're a Final Fantasy VII virgin, I'd be interested to see if you see where I'm going with this.
Later, Aerith would one day blurt out to her mother that "someone dear to her has died," and that "His spirit was coming to see you, but he's already returned to the planet." A few days later, Elmyra received the letter she dreaded for a while - a notice of her husband's death.
Okay, so Aerith has the ability to sense the death of people who are important to people who are important to her, even if she's never met them. That's… fascinating in its implication. Also suggests that she's genuinely able to sense souls and that this "returning to the planet" deal is objective reality.
Also, Aerith literally has magic, and the real esoteric kind, so that's cool. She's kept pretty quiet about that aspect of her life, which makes sense since she's known Cloud for two days at most.
Then, one day, the Turk boss shows up.
Tseng located Aerith, and asked for her return, calling her "a very special child," "of special blood," who will "lead us to a land of supreme happiness." Aerith, he explains, will be able to bring happiness to all those in the slums, and that's why Shinra would like her cooperation. Aerith protests that she's not an Ancient, and Tseng asks her if she hears "voices" when she's alone. Aerith claims she doesn't, but even her mother can tell that this is a lie, and that Aerith has been hiding her 'mysterious powers' from years.
Hmm.
Cloud exclaims that it's amazing she's managed to avoid Shinra all these years, and Elmyra says since Shinra need her, they wouldn't harm her. But, well, that doesn't answer the question, does it?
Aerith didn't "avoid Shinra all these years." Shinra literally knows where she lives. They have known this entire time! Tseng literally visited her in her own home. Shinra must have made the deliberate choice to not abduct her against her will, which would make sense if, for instance, their plans don't require her active participation yet; except it can't be that, because we know from previous conversations that the Turks have in fact been trying to abduct Aerith! The only explanation might be that Elmyra and Aerith did move after Tseng first found them, and then stayed in hiding, but then how did they fail to find her all these years? She literally has the only plot of fertile land in all of Midgar, that can't be easy to miss.
You have to sacrifice something to make it make sense, and the Remake's decision here is interesting.
Also, the mention of Elmyra's husband trying to return to her but being prevented from it by his "return to the planet" suggests that the planet has a pull, that souls/spirits have some degree of independent action like they do in most FF games, but that lingering as ghosts requires resisting the planet's gravity.
Except around trains, of course.
So Aerith brought Marlene to the same place she, when she was a little girl whose last living relative had died, was taken - her mother's house. I admire the poetry of it. Unfortunately it also means that she brought Marlene to a place Tseng knew she would go back to, and he intercepted her, coercing Aerith into coming with him "willingly" in exchange for the girl's safety. Barret is distraught to learn that Aerith was caught because of his daughter, and apologizes, and Elmyra berates him for leaving his child alone like that.
Barret: "...Please don't start with that. I'm always thinkin' about what might happen to Marlene, if I…"
Barret: "But you gotta understand somethin'... I don't got any answers. I wanna be with Marlene… But I gotta fight."
Barret: "Cause if I don't… The Planet's gonna die. So I'm gonna keep fightin'!"
Barret: "But inside I'm always thinkin' of her. I just wanna be with her… Always."
Barret: "See? I'm goin' in circles, now."
Elmyra: "...I think I know what you mean. She's upstairs asleep. Why don't you go and see her?"
Yeah. Barret's core emotional conflict is that he is a genuinely loving father, devoted to his daughter, but also utterly consumed with the fight for the planet. In a way, these two are one and the same; he's fighting to ensure that his daughter has a future. He can't do right by her by choosing not to fight and allowing her to grow up in a dying world, but the fight always means leaving her and putting his own life on the line and risking leaving her an orphan. It's a powerful and fully sympathetic conflict.
'Whiskers' is a really choice of words for what's very clearly a beard, but it's a sweet moment, Barret doting over his daughter and her being like "your beard itches," classic child stuff.
So Barret, even though he's seen Aerith for all of thirty seconds and heard one sentence out of her mouth, is already ride-or-die for her because she saved his daughter, and telling Cloud that he's fully intent on helping rescue her. This game is really good at tying all the characters together like that.
Also, Marlene has already sensed that Aerith has a crush on Cloud from how many questions she asked Marlene about him, and Cloud has the possibility to answer "I don't know" or "Let's hope so"; if we pick "I don't know" she calls Cloud a dummy, and if we pick "Let's hope so" she says "I won't tell Tifa!" You mischievous child, you.
Once we go down, we see that Tifa is having a guilt trip party of her own, blaming herself for getting Aerith involved, but Elmyra tells her Aerith didn't blame her for it; Tifa asks Cloud if he's coming after her and Cloud says, matter of factly, "Yeah," as if he wasn't taking on the world's most powerful corporation in the wake of them destroying an entire sector just to get at a handful of his friends. When Tifa says she'll come with him, he's the one to point out how dangerous it'll be; Tifa says she's ready to push herself to her limits.
Barret entrusts Marlene's safety to Elmyra, and the group prepares to face Shinra - though they don't know how to get there; the trains aren't currently running. They decide to head to Wall Market.
Aaaand that's gonna be it for tonight, I think. That's where I stopped last time I played. This covered a very short, but dense section of the game. As far as establishing villainous moments go, Shinra destroying an entire sector to get at a handful of terrorist and succeeding is really strong; we're following in the clear footsteps of FFVI here. Although the destruction of Sector 7 is nowhere near the scale of Kefka's apocalypse, the heroes showing up too late to prevent the antagonists from destroying a place that matters to them is a powerful moment, and all the more so because of how unique and alive the Slums feel as a location. The deaths of the three non-playable Avalanche members is effective on its own, even if they had "red shirt" practically written all over them; they were just characterful and likeable enough that I am sad for their demise.
…too bad it's also pursuing some of FFVI's less interesting developments, like the fact that the protagonists mostly fail because they decide to just stand around while Reno sets the plate to self-destruct. It's not as egregious as some of the scenes from earlier games and we do end up fighting him, but, c'mon.
Also…
Tifa's Wall Market Adventure was completely pointless, right?
Like, as a story beat it was strong. I enjoyed it!
It's just, within the context of the broader plot, clearly getting the information from Don Corneo didn't actually matter. It's not just that it didn't help stop Shinra from collapsing the plate, it's that not having that information didn't keep Barret and Avalanche from spotting Shinra attacking the pillar and moving to defend it. They were even successful at it until Reno used a helicopter drop to get to the controls. If Cloud, Tifa and Aerith had been in Sector 7 with zero knowledge of the attack, they presumably would still have ended up defending the pillar as Barret did. They still would have been in the exact same place when the Pillar collapsed, if indeed it did collapse with the group having further, earlier backup.
I don't know. It's not a major issue in the grand scheme of things. Characters are allowed to take well-intentioned actions that ultimately turn out not to matter or to make things worse, that's not bad storytelling. It just bugs me a little.
What bugs me a lot, though, is where the Remake takes all this.
Well, anyway!
Next Time: Hopefully we raid Shinra HQ?
Last time, we made it out of Wall Market only barely in time to learn that Shinra is planning to collapse the Sector 7 plate, and we must race through the train graveyard in order to reach the pillar before they can do it. To do this, we must navigate a maze of train rooftops through ladders and railways.
On the way, we fight a bunch of bugs, lizards, the occasional stranded robot, and, ah, yes…
Ghosts.
What these ghosts are supposed to mean for the general metaphysics of the setting, or why they're haunting a train graveyard, I have no idea. Maybe they're train ghosts?
The train/ghost connection is interesting, though, because it's coming back from FFVI. Not in any way near as obvious as "train that literally carries the dead," but there's a train "graveyard" and it contains ghost, so it's clearly a theme that the series is angling for, and I'm not sure where it's coming from - there's no cultural association between trains and ghosts that I'm aware of in either Japan or the West, so this genuinely seems like a homemade idea. And that's cool! I like it.
There's a fairly straightforward puzzle where we have to move trains to push other trains to unlock the path forward, which is mainly interesting because of how it allows us to see an environment which uses the same items (trains) as both pre-rendered (those that don't move) and not-pre-rendered (those we have to move), resulting in that slightly uncanny effect:
It's incredibly obvious that these trains are modeled differently, and in this 2013 port, the in-engine trains have somewhat upscaled graphics that make them look better than the background, possibly? It's complicated; the pre-rendered trains have much more care put into creating the feeling of relief and depth to their little details, but the in-engine trains, which are clearer and with more detailing, are also very obviously smooth tubes with all the details painted on. If we look at footage that isn't upscaled, though, the trains are much more heavily pixelated compared to the background, making it more obvious why pre-rendering what could be pre-rendered was considered preferable.
Soon enough, we're back at the edge of Sector 7.
The faithful train conductor, or controller, or whatever he is, can't bear to leave the station even as he's heard that the plate was about to fall. How could he have heard about it, you ask?
Well, the answer is that we're late and the party's already started.
The Pillar is already under attack, with Avalanche holding the line; Barret is engaged in a live shoot-out with the (unseen) assaillant, and just as we arrive, Wedge falls off the top of the pillar.
Wedge: "...Cloud. You remembered… My name. Barret's up top. …Help him… An' Cloud… Sorry, I wasn't any help."
Damn. RIP, Wedge. The callback between Cloud's first lines in the game commenting that he doesn't need to learn anyone's name because he'll be out after this one job and him now calling out Wedge's name in concern as he's lying there dying is a really neat touch.
Or "dying." Cloud seems to believe he can make it, and asks Aerith to take care of him. Well, she is the Healer Girl. Tifa also asks Aerith to please go find Marlene at the 7th Heaven and put her somewhere safe.
Yeah, if the plate's about to collapse, grabbing your loved ones and fleeing is what makes sense, even if our protagonists are going to try and prevent such an event from occurring in the first place.
Tifa, making use of her role as a local fixture, warns everyone to stay away from the pillar and to leave Sector 7, then we head for the pillar.
There's this honestly funny exchange where this guy is like 'I have to stay here, it's my job' and the girl is like 'oooh I love me a man with a sense of duty, what are you doing later.'
It looks like Biggs fell as well, the way he's draped over the rail.
This is actually a question he's asking; we can choose to answer 'Nope, not interested" or "You're wounded…" Basically the game is giving us the choice of whether to have Cloud double down on the 'aloof merc' persona or show that he actually cares. Telling Biggs he's injured results in him thanking Cloud, and telling him not to worry about him and to go help Barret.
It looks like Shinra bypassed local slum security by using airborne troops, including, huh, these goofy motherfuckers:
They're soldiers with helicopter hands who fight using propeller blades as swords. Ridiculous.
Then, halfway up the tower, we find the last of the three non-playable Avalanche members:
The Jessie bit is probably the strongest of the three. Our two choices are "Don't say 'last'" and "Is that so?" The first option leads to Jessie telling Cloud that it's alright - because of Avalanche's actions, many people died, and this must be their punishment. This is the first time in the game that an Avalanche member acknowledges the human cost of their action, and it's when facing death and finding some measure of peace for the guilt they've secretly felt for their actions. That's heavy stuff, man. But perhaps even stronger, if crueler, is what she says if we choose to feign indifference:
Jessie: "Ah… Cool… as usual… ex-... SOLDIER. …always…I liked that… in you…"
There's a kind of… vulnerability to that admission that Cloud's uncaring affect was, after all, working on Jessie. That she's the one person who genuinely did feel that was cool, who secretly kind of liked that fantasy of the cold-hearted soldier who doesn't care about her, only openly admitting it now, in her last moments. It's like… It's sad in a way that's poignantly human?
I get why Remake Jessie is so uncontrollably thirsty. It's a lot of characterization to spin out of a few lines she was in the original, but I genuinely like Jessie in both games.
Then we reach the top of the pillar, where Barret has been fighting off Shinra troops.
In a shocking show of convenience for a Final Fantasy game of that era, we actually get a chance to open the menu during the dialogue so that we can equip our party - most importantly, to equip Barret with new gear and materia, since he's been out of the group since the Mako Reactor 5 sequence. Not that there's too much of a gap, but it's good to make sure everyone has a Restore Materia equipped.
Then the enemy comes flying in on a helicopter, and everyone just stands around helplessly while Reno reaches the pillar controls.
Barret, you literally have a gun. Could literally nobody prevent this? But no, they don't, and Reno does push that button.
Tifa cries that we have to disarm it, and we engage combat with Reno for the first time.
Reno's combat model makes it even more obvious that he's meant to come across as a yakuza thug - I love his pose in particular, with his hand on his hip and his weapon slung over his shoulder. In case it's not clear what his weapon is, it's an electric baton - the perfect pick for a character who's meant to come across as a literal leg-breaker who spends his time beating people up and probably tases them when he needs to abduct a target. Reno is a fairly simple boss with one gimmick:
His move 'pyramid' targets one of our characters and puts them in a, well, pyramid; while in the pyramid, they cannot act and their ATB gauge doesn't fill up. Reno taunts us to 'try and break it if you can' and, indeed, the solution is as easy as directing our next physical attack against the affected character, which breaks the pyramid and frees them. I'm not clear on what the pyramid is, but I'm going to guess some kind of robot-deployed force field? Other than occasionally taking a break to deal with pyramids, Reno is fairly simple to deal with, especially with new Limit Breaks.
What an ugly mug.
Once we've dealt him enough damage, Reno breaks off and runs away from the fight; he leaps over the pillar's rail while Tifa chases after him, but she's not quick enough and he escapes, leaving the room to deal with the time bomb he's set up. Tifa exclaims that she doesn't know how to stop it and asks Cloud for help, and he remarks that it's "not a normal time bomb" - just in time for a new villain to make a dramatic entrance.
This guy is Tseng, who appears to be some kind of Shinra executive. It's not clear what his position is - what matters is that he's here to gloat about how the bomb will explode the moment some "stupid jerk" (weirdly familiar choice of words for a guy who clearly thinks highly of himself; the retranslation goes with "silly fool" which seems more appropriate, and also emphasizes that "you'll have a hard TIME disarming it" is meant to be a stupid pun) touches it, and about how he has Aerith captive, kneeling right there on that weird side platform his chopper has.
The reason why that bomb is not so easily disarmed, it turns out, is that it's not a bomb at all. It's the "Emergency Plate Release System" - essentially a self-destruct function for the Pillar. Now, if you think it's slightly fucked up that Shinra would install a self-destruct function whose only potential use is "killing our own population and destroying half of our city," well, you're right. But it's Shinra we're talking about. They're the embodiment of the particular kind of government who, facing a popular revolution, would sooner nuke their own country rather than endure the pain of no longer being in power. Of course they built a failsafe to collapse their entire city in the event of it turning against them.
Barret immediately does what he should have done when President Shinra first showed up, and attempts to shoot down Tseng, who immediately points out that he's firing into the direction of his 'special guest' - Aerith. Cloud asks what he intends to do with Aerith, and Tseng replies that he doesn't know or care - his orders were simply to find the "last remaining Ancient," and that's done. Notably this is an exchange where we really get a glimpse as to how the translator's process had them do a lot of their work without context from the game; in the original translation Tseng says "I haven't decided" what to do with Aerith, whereas in the fanmade Retranslation mod he says "Who knows?" - the first translation is wrong because it implies that Tseng will decide what to do with Aerith, he just hasn't decided yet, whereas the latter makes it clear that it's beyond the remit of his job and so he doesn't care. This is a good example of how some lines are very obviously weird when reinserted into their context, where they just don't match with what the characters are saying.
Aerith then finally speaks up and, in a strong bit of character writing, it's not at all to express concern over her own safety, but instead to reassure Tifa that "Don't worry, she's alright" (the fact that she doesn't mention Marlene by name will be relevant shortly); Tifa immediately reaches for the railing to try and take hold of Aerith.
It's like the writers saw my complaints about Celes and Terra and immediately set out to fix them. The fact that Aerith met once, in a context where they could easily have acted jealous towards one another over Cloud and instead immediately swear to be each other's BFF and proceed to act like it is very good.
Tseng then taunts the group with how the self-destruct is imminent and whether they think they can escape, and the helicopter flies off even as the pillar starts to explode.
Gigantic chunks of concrete are falling from the sky, but Barret has the idea of using one of these cables you can see helping hold the platform as a swinging rope; the whole group pile together and launch themselves off the pillar, Spider-Man style, shortly before the game goes in for the big money shot - the collapse of the Plate and the destruction of Sector 7, in full FMV pre-rendered glory.
President Shinra overlooks the destruction without so much as batting an eyelid.
The visuals make it clear that the top of the plate is inhabited, and from prior dialogue, we know it's inhabited by the upper class - it didn't save them when Shinra decided their sacrifice would be profitable.
This doesn't feel like a good move on Shinra's part, tbh. There is absolutely no way the benefits of deliberately destroying one eighth of their city outweigh the costs. But who cares? They don't have to follow rational self-interest. They're Shinra. They own the world. I don't think anyone reading this is going to think that behavior is implausible, but if you do, I'd like to direct you to "looking out your window."
It's a pretty strong scene, really showcasing the potential of 3D cinematics to convey, well, cinematic displays of grandiose destruction.
Our group wake up at the edge of Sector 7 - in that very same children's playground where Aerith and Cloud stopped to talk, in that fateful moment before spotting Aerith and derailing the plot.
Barret bangs against the burning wall of wreckage shouting the names of Marlene and the Avalanche members, in a pretty potent scene of grief, shouting out in despair, before Tifa and Cloud rush to try and comfort him - Tifa explains what Barret couldn't have known - when she said "she's alright," Aerith likely meant Marlene, whom Tifa asked her to take to safety. But Barret, who's never met Aerith, would have had no way of knowing that, so he genuinely thought his daughter was dead. Even after learning about this, though, things aren't exactly rosy:
The three Avalanche members, Jessie, Biggs and Wedge, have almost definitely perished in the collapse - they were all grievously injured and on or around the pillar station. And with them, countless minor, nameless characters, inhabitants of Sector 7, have perished as well.
It's… honestly unclear if anyone might have survived at all; the upper plate appears to have been a single block, which literally dropped down onto the layer below. Everyone in the slum would have been squished instantly, and everyone above the plate would have had to survive the impact of the plate with the floor. The picture is… grim.
Tifa asks aloud if this is their fault, if all these innocents lost their lives because Avalanche was there, and Barret dismisses the very thought - nobody is responsible for Shinra's sins but Shinra. And honestly, he's right. The cost and consequences of Avalanche's terrorism is to be found in the impact of the destroyed reactors on people's lives, not on a wildly unpredictable and out-of-scope counterterrorist response of 'nuke the damn city.' Governments threatened by terrorism typically crack down in ways that hurt bystanders as collateral, and that's something you have to be prepared for, but this is an insane escalation.
Barret launches into a heated, passionate speech about Shinra's greed and evil and the need to destroy them once and for all. Tifa is… unsure how she feels about that.
Barret turns to Cloud to ask him how he feels, but Cloud doesn't respond; he simply heads off screen, towards the buried highway to Sector 5. Barret and Tifa catch up with him, asking him if he's going to help the captured Aerith, and Cloud says he will, but first, there is something he must know - about the Ancients. And then, he has another flashback. No words, just a single sentence:
As these words come to his mind, Cloud mutters the name "Sephiroth..?" and then falls to his knees - but he doesn't pass out, so that's progress!
Anyway, that's a supervillain line. Like, nobody calls themselves "the rightful heir to this planet" and is a good guy. But, hm, "rightful heir to this planet" doesn't quite match the vibe I got of Sephiroth over the years, who seemed to be more of a nihilist? That's interesting, we'll see where the game is going with that.
Anyway, we now have control of the group once more and can head to Sector 6. The inhabitants have new dialogue to reflect their awareness of the disaster that just unfolded, all of it tinged with the kind of fatalistic resignation of people who've internalized that this is just their lot in life - sometimes death comes from nowhere at all in Midgar, and where else would you go? Bleak.
That kid we chose not to steal 5 gil from is a lot more excited, though, because he bought a new item with the money he saved, and he's giving it to us for no reason!
Okay kid, step 1 to following your dream: Don't hand out valuable items you invested money in to strangers for no reward.
Said item is a Turbo Ether, so that's nice.
Our objective here isn't any of these guys, though - it's Aerith's house. It's time to get some answers out of her mom.
Elmyra: "It's about Aerith, isn't it?"
Cloud: "Sorry. The Shinra have her."
Elmyra: "I know. They took her from here."
Cloud: "They were here?"
Elmyra: "That's what Aerith wanted…"
Cloud: "Why is Shinra after Aerith?"
Elmyra: "Aerith is an Ancient. The sole survivor…"
Barret: "What did you say? But, aren't you her mother?"
Elmyra: "Not her real mother. …It must have been 15 years ago… During the war. My husband was sent to the front. Some far away place called Wutai. One day, I went to the station because I got a letter saying he was coming home on leave. "
Elmyra watches as, one by one, happy couples are reunited, only for the train to leave without her husband ever coming out. It's pretty good visual storytelling. Wondering why he hadn't come, Elmyra would come to the station day after day, hoping to see him, but he never did. Instead, she one day stumbled upon a woman and child:
The mother, whose long hair and pretty dress mark her as having Anime Important Character Syndrome, was dying. Of what is left unsaid, but Elmyra says "you used to see this sort of thing often during the war." The woman's last words were to plead for Elmyra to take her daughter somewhere safe; Elmyra, lonely and without her husband, decided to take Aerith home with her.
Hmmm. That's our first mention of Wutai in this game, and it shows that Shinra does engage in conventional warfare against other nations. I'll be interested to hear more about that. Aerith being described as the "sole survivor" rather than, like, "last living Ancient" suggests the others died in a violent event of some kind, which would pair well with her mom seemingly dying of violent cause trying to get her daughter some place safe? Maybe Shinra tried to capture the last hidden Ancient enclave and ended up accidentally killing everybody instead because they're hacks whose elite corps are basically corporate-sponsored yakuza.
Elmyra and Aerith grew close very quickly, Aerith having an incredibly talkative personality, even if some of the things she talks about are weird, like, huh:
Okay, "escaped from a Shinra laboratory," good to have that clarified. Elmyra is confused by the phrasing of "returned to the Planet," which makes me wonder what are the Midgarian beliefs regarding the afterlife. Given the retrofuturistic hellscape, ruined church, and mining of the planet's lifeblood, I'm leaning towards the assumption that people hold broadly materialistic beliefs that reject the existence of a 'soul' or the continuation of existence after death; whereas Aerith, and one assumes the Ancients as a whole, believe that with existence, the soul or something like it "returns to the planet" in some way which represents a kind of afterlife.
There are… interesting conclusions that could be drawn from that, and I don't know if I would draw these conclusions if I didn't have some of my pre-existing knowledge of the game. If you're a Final Fantasy VII virgin, I'd be interested to see if you see where I'm going with this.
Later, Aerith would one day blurt out to her mother that "someone dear to her has died," and that "His spirit was coming to see you, but he's already returned to the planet." A few days later, Elmyra received the letter she dreaded for a while - a notice of her husband's death.
Okay, so Aerith has the ability to sense the death of people who are important to people who are important to her, even if she's never met them. That's… fascinating in its implication. Also suggests that she's genuinely able to sense souls and that this "returning to the planet" deal is objective reality.
Also, Aerith literally has magic, and the real esoteric kind, so that's cool. She's kept pretty quiet about that aspect of her life, which makes sense since she's known Cloud for two days at most.
Then, one day, the Turk boss shows up.
Tseng located Aerith, and asked for her return, calling her "a very special child," "of special blood," who will "lead us to a land of supreme happiness." Aerith, he explains, will be able to bring happiness to all those in the slums, and that's why Shinra would like her cooperation. Aerith protests that she's not an Ancient, and Tseng asks her if she hears "voices" when she's alone. Aerith claims she doesn't, but even her mother can tell that this is a lie, and that Aerith has been hiding her 'mysterious powers' from years.
Hmm.
Cloud exclaims that it's amazing she's managed to avoid Shinra all these years, and Elmyra says since Shinra need her, they wouldn't harm her. But, well, that doesn't answer the question, does it?
Aerith didn't "avoid Shinra all these years." Shinra literally knows where she lives. They have known this entire time! Tseng literally visited her in her own home. Shinra must have made the deliberate choice to not abduct her against her will, which would make sense if, for instance, their plans don't require her active participation yet; except it can't be that, because we know from previous conversations that the Turks have in fact been trying to abduct Aerith! The only explanation might be that Elmyra and Aerith did move after Tseng first found them, and then stayed in hiding, but then how did they fail to find her all these years? She literally has the only plot of fertile land in all of Midgar, that can't be easy to miss.
You have to sacrifice something to make it make sense, and the Remake's decision here is interesting.
The Remake changes this by making it very clear that Aerith has been under surveillance all these years, with the Turks acting as a combination of spies and bodyguards, to the point that she has some degree of a personal relationship with some of them, being on a first-name basis with Rude and being horrified when Cloud tries to kill Reno. It's clear that Shinra made the decision to leave Aerith alone because they didn't need her immediately and the possibility of willing cooperation later was better than the benefits of forced cooperation now.
It has the side effect of making the Turks look a lot more ambiguous and likeable, which makes it kind of a swerve when they willingly participate in the annihilation of Sector 7, though.
It has the side effect of making the Turks look a lot more ambiguous and likeable, which makes it kind of a swerve when they willingly participate in the annihilation of Sector 7, though.
Also, the mention of Elmyra's husband trying to return to her but being prevented from it by his "return to the planet" suggests that the planet has a pull, that souls/spirits have some degree of independent action like they do in most FF games, but that lingering as ghosts requires resisting the planet's gravity.
Except around trains, of course.
So Aerith brought Marlene to the same place she, when she was a little girl whose last living relative had died, was taken - her mother's house. I admire the poetry of it. Unfortunately it also means that she brought Marlene to a place Tseng knew she would go back to, and he intercepted her, coercing Aerith into coming with him "willingly" in exchange for the girl's safety. Barret is distraught to learn that Aerith was caught because of his daughter, and apologizes, and Elmyra berates him for leaving his child alone like that.
Barret: "...Please don't start with that. I'm always thinkin' about what might happen to Marlene, if I…"
Barret: "But you gotta understand somethin'... I don't got any answers. I wanna be with Marlene… But I gotta fight."
Barret: "Cause if I don't… The Planet's gonna die. So I'm gonna keep fightin'!"
Barret: "But inside I'm always thinkin' of her. I just wanna be with her… Always."
Barret: "See? I'm goin' in circles, now."
Elmyra: "...I think I know what you mean. She's upstairs asleep. Why don't you go and see her?"
Yeah. Barret's core emotional conflict is that he is a genuinely loving father, devoted to his daughter, but also utterly consumed with the fight for the planet. In a way, these two are one and the same; he's fighting to ensure that his daughter has a future. He can't do right by her by choosing not to fight and allowing her to grow up in a dying world, but the fight always means leaving her and putting his own life on the line and risking leaving her an orphan. It's a powerful and fully sympathetic conflict.
'Whiskers' is a really choice of words for what's very clearly a beard, but it's a sweet moment, Barret doting over his daughter and her being like "your beard itches," classic child stuff.
So Barret, even though he's seen Aerith for all of thirty seconds and heard one sentence out of her mouth, is already ride-or-die for her because she saved his daughter, and telling Cloud that he's fully intent on helping rescue her. This game is really good at tying all the characters together like that.
Also, Marlene has already sensed that Aerith has a crush on Cloud from how many questions she asked Marlene about him, and Cloud has the possibility to answer "I don't know" or "Let's hope so"; if we pick "I don't know" she calls Cloud a dummy, and if we pick "Let's hope so" she says "I won't tell Tifa!" You mischievous child, you.
Once we go down, we see that Tifa is having a guilt trip party of her own, blaming herself for getting Aerith involved, but Elmyra tells her Aerith didn't blame her for it; Tifa asks Cloud if he's coming after her and Cloud says, matter of factly, "Yeah," as if he wasn't taking on the world's most powerful corporation in the wake of them destroying an entire sector just to get at a handful of his friends. When Tifa says she'll come with him, he's the one to point out how dangerous it'll be; Tifa says she's ready to push herself to her limits.
Barret entrusts Marlene's safety to Elmyra, and the group prepares to face Shinra - though they don't know how to get there; the trains aren't currently running. They decide to head to Wall Market.
Aaaand that's gonna be it for tonight, I think. That's where I stopped last time I played. This covered a very short, but dense section of the game. As far as establishing villainous moments go, Shinra destroying an entire sector to get at a handful of terrorist and succeeding is really strong; we're following in the clear footsteps of FFVI here. Although the destruction of Sector 7 is nowhere near the scale of Kefka's apocalypse, the heroes showing up too late to prevent the antagonists from destroying a place that matters to them is a powerful moment, and all the more so because of how unique and alive the Slums feel as a location. The deaths of the three non-playable Avalanche members is effective on its own, even if they had "red shirt" practically written all over them; they were just characterful and likeable enough that I am sad for their demise.
…too bad it's also pursuing some of FFVI's less interesting developments, like the fact that the protagonists mostly fail because they decide to just stand around while Reno sets the plate to self-destruct. It's not as egregious as some of the scenes from earlier games and we do end up fighting him, but, c'mon.
Also…
Tifa's Wall Market Adventure was completely pointless, right?
Like, as a story beat it was strong. I enjoyed it!
It's just, within the context of the broader plot, clearly getting the information from Don Corneo didn't actually matter. It's not just that it didn't help stop Shinra from collapsing the plate, it's that not having that information didn't keep Barret and Avalanche from spotting Shinra attacking the pillar and moving to defend it. They were even successful at it until Reno used a helicopter drop to get to the controls. If Cloud, Tifa and Aerith had been in Sector 7 with zero knowledge of the attack, they presumably would still have ended up defending the pillar as Barret did. They still would have been in the exact same place when the Pillar collapsed, if indeed it did collapse with the group having further, earlier backup.
I don't know. It's not a major issue in the grand scheme of things. Characters are allowed to take well-intentioned actions that ultimately turn out not to matter or to make things worse, that's not bad storytelling. It just bugs me a little.
What bugs me a lot, though, is where the Remake takes all this.
The Remake's post-Wall Market sequence is where pacing goes to die.
The entire situation is framed with dire urgency - Shinra is going to collapse the plate! We have to go and save the entire sector! Except then the game proceeds to take the Train Graveyard, a two-screen stroll with one puzzle in the major game, and turns out into an entire chapter with its own self-contained subplot about ghosts. The whole thing takes at least an hour to play through! An hour! The entire time I was thinking "okay but Shinra is about to kill everyone in Sector 7 can't you guys move it?'
Now, it's doing interesting things with that, related to Aerith's own plot and the nature of ghosts, but the sense of urgency created in Wall Market is actively working against the game in that instance. Like, at one point we're done, we've defeated the boss ghost, and then more ghosts show up and literally teleport Aerith away and I am literally going "please let me go back to the main fucking plot."
Then after all that, after the collapse of the Sector plate, the devastating destruction (Jessie my beloved) and Aerith's abduction… The characters go "maybe they'll let Aerith leave once they no longer need her." Like. Aerith's mom says this and then Tifa agrees and then, after an initial protest, Cloud also agrees, even if reluctantly. No. Sweetie no. Under no circumstances. Please do not do that stupid thing.
Tifa, no!
Except they do, because the game needs to free up time for an extra hour of sidequests. Or, like, two hours? Three hours?
Part of it is plot related - we get to explore what remains of Sector 7, we explore forgotten Shinra experiments that give us clues about what they're trying to do… But this is a baffling choice. Well, not that baffling. They needed the space for a bunch of plot hooks and side quests. And at some point they do agree to go after Aerith, there's just a long stretch of side quests after that in the process of finding a way to Shinra HQ.
To an extent this is a self-inflicted problem. You can choose not to fight Fat Chocobo in the VR simulation to get an extra summon you will never use and instead go straight for the plot. But would you? It's Fat Chocobo! Come on!
The game is also making a bunch of decisions that emphasize its metaxtual aspects - like the fact that Wedge actually survives the Sector 7 collapse to be taken back to Elmyra's house to heal, or a dream sequence in which Aerith tells Cloud he "can't fall in love with her."
Anyway yeah. I'm less a fan of these changes even if I get why they were changed.
The entire situation is framed with dire urgency - Shinra is going to collapse the plate! We have to go and save the entire sector! Except then the game proceeds to take the Train Graveyard, a two-screen stroll with one puzzle in the major game, and turns out into an entire chapter with its own self-contained subplot about ghosts. The whole thing takes at least an hour to play through! An hour! The entire time I was thinking "okay but Shinra is about to kill everyone in Sector 7 can't you guys move it?'
Now, it's doing interesting things with that, related to Aerith's own plot and the nature of ghosts, but the sense of urgency created in Wall Market is actively working against the game in that instance. Like, at one point we're done, we've defeated the boss ghost, and then more ghosts show up and literally teleport Aerith away and I am literally going "please let me go back to the main fucking plot."
Then after all that, after the collapse of the Sector plate, the devastating destruction (Jessie my beloved) and Aerith's abduction… The characters go "maybe they'll let Aerith leave once they no longer need her." Like. Aerith's mom says this and then Tifa agrees and then, after an initial protest, Cloud also agrees, even if reluctantly. No. Sweetie no. Under no circumstances. Please do not do that stupid thing.
Tifa, no!
Except they do, because the game needs to free up time for an extra hour of sidequests. Or, like, two hours? Three hours?
Part of it is plot related - we get to explore what remains of Sector 7, we explore forgotten Shinra experiments that give us clues about what they're trying to do… But this is a baffling choice. Well, not that baffling. They needed the space for a bunch of plot hooks and side quests. And at some point they do agree to go after Aerith, there's just a long stretch of side quests after that in the process of finding a way to Shinra HQ.
To an extent this is a self-inflicted problem. You can choose not to fight Fat Chocobo in the VR simulation to get an extra summon you will never use and instead go straight for the plot. But would you? It's Fat Chocobo! Come on!
The game is also making a bunch of decisions that emphasize its metaxtual aspects - like the fact that Wedge actually survives the Sector 7 collapse to be taken back to Elmyra's house to heal, or a dream sequence in which Aerith tells Cloud he "can't fall in love with her."
Anyway yeah. I'm less a fan of these changes even if I get why they were changed.
Well, anyway!
Next Time: Hopefully we raid Shinra HQ?
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- Location
- the Republic
- Pronouns
- He/They
Tifa's Wall Market adventure was only pointless if you concern yourself with trivial matters like whether the plot progression all hangs together cohesively. If you're more interested in important things, like Cloud being super-hot both in and out of a dress or the establishment of the best power throuple in video games, then it was absolutely vital in both a narrative and a historical sense.
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
- Pronouns
- They/them
Aerith then finally speaks up and, in a strong bit of character writing, it's not at all to express concern over her own safety, but instead to reassure Tifa that "Don't worry, she's alright" (the fact that she doesn't mention Marlene by name will be relevant shortly); Tifa immediately reaches for the railing to try and take hold of Aerith.
It's like the writers saw my complaints about Celes and Terra and immediately set out to fix them. The fact that Aerith met once, in a context where they could easily have acted jealous towards one another over Cloud and instead immediately swear to be each other's BFF and proceed to act like it is very good.
This is something I'm glad they doubled down on for Remake. Tifa and Aerith are best friends and they are not going to fight over Cloud, in fact according to the fans they're much more likely to share him which is correct-
Much to think about with regards to Remake's depiction. The plate doesn't seem to drop all at once in a single solid block, more rolling down as a cascading series of structural failures that leave just enough time for a slow-walk sequence through the rubble trying to look for survivors before the rest falls, which happens offscreen sometime during the Deepground lab diversion. Maybe that sort of makes more sense from the standpoint of how the plate's superstructure would actually be able to hold together long term instead of being able to cleanly release in an instant. idk I heard jokes about how 'Shinra dropped a city on the slums and missed' back during release but I don't think it's that silly in hindsight.
Not that willingly. Reno and Rude don't feel great about it, Reno in particular questioning the order, with Tseng absolving them by pointing out Shinra is going to make it happen whether they say yes or not.
Must be a cultural thing, because where I'm from 'whiskers' as a synonym for stubble/facial hair in general is quite normal.
EDIT: Another Remake thing that I forgot, pretty funny that Cloud beasts on Reno one-on-one easily in the church and then even with Rude as backup the two Turks get rinsed again at the Sector 7 pillar, so the Whispers have to step in to stop the gang from preventing the plate-drop.
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Dybbukpossesed
Falling Somewhere
- Location
- California
I am honestly shocked that these goofy bastards didn't make it into the Machinabridged version of this chapter. Also if you're following along and don't want to be spoiled on things you can watch up to episode 7 without spoilers now! I heartily recommend doing so if only for the needed humor after this. (Also what happens to Reno is pretty damn funny!)It looks like Shinra bypassed local slum security by using airborne troops, including, huh, these goofy motherfuckers:
They're soldiers with helicopter hands who fight using propeller blades as swords. Ridiculous.
- Location
- Te Ika-a-Māui
- Pronouns
- She/Her
At least for me it suggests more the full Marx look than Barrett's fairly closely trimmed facial hair, though.
- Location
- SV's Only Complete Persona Quest
- Pronouns
- She/Her
For where ghost train folklore comes from, apparently there are some Japanese tales from the early 20th century where ghost trains are linked with tanuki, usually where people would hear the noise of a mysterious train coming only for it to just be a roadkilled (or 'track killed' I guess) tanuki. Not that either FF6 or 7 reference tanuki in their ghost train segments, unless there was something I missed.
The US also has a couple of ghost train tales too, a big one being the funeral train that runs every night on the anniversary of Lincoln's death. There's also the Silver Arrow in Sweden and the St. Louis Light in Canada.
Edit: Huh, given my avatar (back then), now I'm wondering why Gravity Falls never had a ghost train episode?
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- Location
- PA
I…dunno if I count because I DID watch Advent Children at least.
But my read is basically something something akin to how when one dies their body will be consumed by scavengers in what may be poetically called the great circle of life, the whole 'returned to the planet' thing might be a mystical equivalent of that.
Though I would argue anything where your soul is like, reabsorbed then begs the question of is that process 'zero sum'? Because zero sim negative 'energy is gradually being lost, means eventually death comes for the planet itself and uhh.
I don't like the concept of Entropic heat-death.
'Zero-sum positive' of souls feeding back more power than it takes to make a new one? That feels like something that would justify 'ghosts' fairly easily….
Something to consider next time I world-build.
Or you guys if you swipe this idea for your own use. Go ahead! You might take this places I might never dream of.
Edit:Soo Reno's baton is electric? I thought it was just some kind of fold-up stick Reno kept smacking his fellow Shinra dude with 'dunno if that bald guy was Tseng or not'…
But my read is basically something something akin to how when one dies their body will be consumed by scavengers in what may be poetically called the great circle of life, the whole 'returned to the planet' thing might be a mystical equivalent of that.
Though I would argue anything where your soul is like, reabsorbed then begs the question of is that process 'zero sum'? Because zero sim negative 'energy is gradually being lost, means eventually death comes for the planet itself and uhh.
I don't like the concept of Entropic heat-death.
'Zero-sum positive' of souls feeding back more power than it takes to make a new one? That feels like something that would justify 'ghosts' fairly easily….
Something to consider next time I world-build.
Or you guys if you swipe this idea for your own use. Go ahead! You might take this places I might never dream of.
Edit:Soo Reno's baton is electric? I thought it was just some kind of fold-up stick Reno kept smacking his fellow Shinra dude with 'dunno if that bald guy was Tseng or not'…
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- Location
- Te Ika-a-Māui
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There's also the metaphor of a train graveyard being a final destination, so to speak.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Regarding the remake...
Yeah it kills the pacing, but I really loved it. I loved going through the wreckage of Shinra's evil. Both the fallen plate and the labs it exposed. I knew about Deepground... sorta. As part of the general ball of FF7 knowledge I've picked up over the years, but I loved seeing it. I loved the 'as above, so below'ness of it. Shinra is doing all manner of strange and horrible things all over the place. Far above everything it their tower, and beneath everyone's feet, there they are. Being awful.
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daniel_gudman
KING (in land of blind)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I feel like Sephiroph has gotten pretty seriously Flanderized in a way; because he goes through his own story arc, starting out as a Cool Aloof Bishounen Master Swordsfighter, which is where his kinda Fanfic Characterization usually sits; but most of the game he ends up being... well! I'll say that if you're comparing Tifa and Aerith to Celes and Terra, then I think compare-contrast Sephiroph with Kefka would be an interesting thing for you to consider doing.
When the remake was announced, my first thought was "they should get Gary Busey to voice Sephiroph," to address that another way.
When the remake was announced, my first thought was "they should get Gary Busey to voice Sephiroph," to address that another way.
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Pretty sure you should be putting stuff like this in the spoiler thread.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
I've heard that the Turks are victims of being rushed through development, and I'd believe it. The Remake's version where they're morally grey and conflicted about it at least makes all their component parts feels reasonably coherent.
Remake Barret gets some great bits in the aftermath – everyone does, really – and the ending of the Three Stooges was devastating. But I think during the drop itself, FF7 is actually stronger than it's counterpart. This shot here is nightmarish, getting to see the sky falling outside the window somebody's home, from the perspective of some poor bastard sitting on the sofa watching the news:
Remake Barret gets some great bits in the aftermath – everyone does, really – and the ending of the Three Stooges was devastating. But I think during the drop itself, FF7 is actually stronger than it's counterpart. This shot here is nightmarish, getting to see the sky falling outside the window somebody's home, from the perspective of some poor bastard sitting on the sofa watching the news:
The Remake has more of an adventure-y type music as the team grapples down to safety which feels weird to me.
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