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Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]

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wetodet said:
The original version of FF14's Machinist class drew incredibly heavily from Mustadio, and it went with pistols that have bizarrely long barrels and a really weird grip, putting them somewhere between, well, pistols and rifles. Honestly I think the Job would've been better off picking one of those and sticking with it, the weird stances and obscene barrel lengths are kind of the worst of both worlds.

Then again, in my experience FF14 Machinist is a Job with a million moving parts, none of which actually interact with each other - fun fact: there is literally no use for the Battery Gauge in most engagements, as the turret or robot it is used to summon can only do single-target damage - so the guns not being sure what they're supposed to be matches the rest of the Job's confusion as to its intended role.
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What's awkward about FFXIV's Machinist is that it wound up picking a lot of inspiration from Edgar later on, so it can't quite decide whether it wants to be a gunshootmans job like Mustadio or a gadgeteer job like Edgar - and people who are really invested in one of those aspects tend to be put off by the other.

It's me I want a gun-fu class so very badly I do not wish to chainsaw

So you've got a job with some confusion mechanically, visually, and thematically and it winds up being kind of an awkward mess all around. Which is a shame because I really do wish I could like it.
 
illhousen said:
...Oof. This is one of the worst possible introductions to the genre.
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Hah, okay, yes, there is that aspect. :D

Like, you know yourself better, obviously, so if you say you can't enjoy this kind of game, then you can't, but your choice of first foray there really didn't help.
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Though I'm honestly not sure I got far enough into the game for the problems with it specifically to really crop up. Gameplay- or plot-wise.

foamy said:
It's kind of outside the scope of this thread, but I would recommend Battletech (2018) or Into the Breach as both good, though very different, takes on the small-unit tactical fight.
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AliasiSudonomo said:
(Aside from the examples given above by other folks, I'll also recommend Tactical Breach Wizards for something a bit more on the 'puzzle' side of the formula; if you enjoy puzzle games, the sort of thing it does may speak more to you, as it's not quite the dynamic tactical situation FFT is and more of 'can I seal the door and kick this person out a window in an efficient number of turns' deal. And that's just if you wish to actually see if you can cultivate a taste for it; nothing wrong with 'nah, not my thing'.)
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Thanks for the recommendations, but, yeah, probably just not my thing, taking various aspects into consideration... and honestly, given I already have more game-playing I want to do than I have time for, if I did discover some tactical battle games I liked, they'd just add to the pile. :D

AliasiSudonomo said:
Yeah, my use of 'befuddle' was more akin to you being unable to see the fun in it other than intellectually, not any sort of comment on your tastes. :)
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Ah, thanks for the clarification.
Though to be clear, I don't recall taking any insult from what you said, if "any sort of comment on your tastes" was related to concern I might have.

csjorm said:
I don't like Fallout Tactics but it's not THAT bad. It's a mediocre kind of bad that's a letdown from good games as opposed to the spectacle of unbelievable fuckery and 20+ game plagiarism that is Limbo of the Lost.
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[follows that link]
...The hay is that? What? And from the sound of it, I gather that it does not actually make much more sense in context? And that, in fact, things got worse from there?

Though, also, for anyone interested in more information about Fallout Tactics, I think this is a good (portion of a) video (which is also in general good):

View: https://youtu.be/V7FLCg4KdyE?t=7001

Egleris said:
I think the artstyle works for the game, if the player allows it to.
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Agreed!

Cypocryphy said:
But yeah, the "Wind Waker" effect was also in play, and people were mad that it looked like a """kid's game""" or a cartoon.
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(Wind Waker in my opinion also quite a good game, by the way, and the graphics still look great (from what I recall/have seen here and there; it's been ages since I played it, and I'm not sure what even happened to my old Gamecube); the game artists knew their craft.)

maskedanddanger said:
Unlike today, where they generally release a game on both the old and new consoles during a generation change, back then it was a clean break. Everyone was up on the new hotness, a game released for obsolete tech was basically a waste of time.
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Wasn't the PS2 fully backwards-compatible with the PS1, though? IIRC the PS2 I had was, though I think it was a later, non-launch version; I thought the backwards compatibility was in from the start, though.

Flare said:
OTOH the PS2 is retrocompatible with the PS1, and at the time this was one of the things that points used to push the PS2: unlike with the SNES and N64 (or Saturn and Dreamcast), your PS1 games still worked.
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Ah, thanks for the confirmation.
 
StormyEyed said:
What's awkward about FFXIV's Machinist is that it wound up picking a lot of inspiration from Edgar later on, so it can't quite decide whether it wants to be a gunshootmans job like Mustadio or a gadgeteer job like Edgar - and people who are really invested in one of those aspects tend to be put off by the other.

It's me I want a gun-fu class so very badly I do not wish to chainsaw

So you've got a job with some confusion mechanically, visually, and thematically and it winds up being kind of an awkward mess all around. Which is a shame because I really do wish I could like it.
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I mean, there was clearly some intent to have a purely-guns class going at least as far back as ARR - you can see traces of it in Merlwyb's abilities whenever she's actually involved in a fight, plus the signposts in Limsa have a crossed-flintlocks symbol pointing to the same building used for Marauder that never gets proper use.
However, MCH has never been a purely-gun Job even before Edgar - and some Irvine, depending on expansion - what with the turret, or apparently turrets at one point, being a 'core' thing for 14 MCH - inasmuch as MCH is capable of having a 'core' - and not a thing at all in Mustadio's moveset that I can tell... even if it's a major mechanic of his fight in Orbonne for some reason.
 
Reese said:
Wasn't the PS2 fully backwards-compatible with the PS1, though? IIRC the PS2 I had was, though I think it was a later, non-launch version; I thought the backwards compatibility was in from the start, though.

Ah, thanks for the confirmation.
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The PS2 had the PS1's processor built in and used it for a few things besides playing PS1 games, so every version had to have the feature. One use was as a controller for the network connection and hard drive if you installed one, so technically it's an important part of Final Fantasy history for making 11 work. It also means that using homebrew to play games directly off the harddrive doesn't work with PS1 games, because the PS1 hardware is busy reading the drive. (you can still run some PS1 games that way using an emulator, which is nowhere near as good as the hardware-based compatibility but it's impressive it works at all)
 
Mutton said:
Later histories might put forth that Ramza was Delita's hatchetman. Exiled noble slumming it, meets up with his childhood friend and hatches a plot to

Job was designed in HW when the devs realized that rdps with no cast times were dumb and, after deciding they'd never ever do anything interesting with classes again, mostly forgotten and just drifting by without much thought after that was unmade.
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So machinist sucked in ff14 as much as it did in tactics.
I mean thats not far from reality tbh, like the relationship between the two has more or less been "we cool", "yeah we cool", with some you deal with these guys, I will deal with those other guys" thrown in the fact that their plots and reasoning never fully lined up would be cold comfort to the demons, nobles and churchmen they all killed.
 
Omicron said:
I'm looking at a sales chart of the FF series, and IX is the worst-selling PSX game, and the worst selling game since the beginning of the PSX era other than the non-MMOs, which would make it something of an underrated hidden gem?
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Apparently a lot of people didn't like the art style which is something that baffles me, as not only does it not bother me but I remember how ugly FFVII could get in places and that sold like hotcakes. (To be clear, I like FFVII a lot, but, sometimes the little lego people made me miss sprites). But that could have depressed sales regardless of the rest of the game's quality.

Omicron said:
Outer Wilds is, no joke, one of my top 3 games of all time, and it's probably in the top or second spot at that. A truly amazing experience I cannot recommend enough, and I'm glad you got to experience it. Have you played Echoes of the Eye yet? I fully did not expect the game to be able to fit a DLC in such an already perfectly constructed experience without any missing pieces, but by god they pulled it off.

You reading this, if you haven't played Outer Wilds, please go ahead and buy it immediately. Don't look it up. Just download it and experience it.
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No joke, I honestly think I haven't played this because I keep getting it confused with Outer Worlds.
 
Omegahugger said:
In retrospect, the "cartoonish graphics are for kids' games" sentiment of the PS2 era was a dire portent of the "real graphics are brown" zeitgeist that was heralded in by the PS3.
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One hundred percent. It is like the recent crop of "games with dads as the protagonists" in them, in a way. Now, to be fair this was more on western developed things but you still had it in small ways like Nintendo making sure Kirby had an angrier look on US covers.
 
SolipsistSerpent said:
Apparently a lot of people didn't like the art style which is something that baffles me, as not only does it not bother me but I remember how ugly FFVII could get in places and that sold like hotcakes.
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The thing is, FF7 was a genuine revolution in graphical design. When you're the first, people are way more willing to overlook faults. Hell, when FF7 came out, nobody had enough experience with 3D graphics to know what *was* a fault!


And a number of the pre-rendered FMVs, while low poly, still hold up well. The opening one and the Shinra motorbike escape sequence in particular stand out.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Y6Sza8Nt0

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19OECgt-pIw

If you saw these in 1997 it blew your mind.
 
Still kind of crazy to me that we somehow managed to get this one done before New Year.

So, I don't intend to start the next game until January, since I'll be having family over for the holidays and all that, but I'd like to turn to the thread and ask people's opinions on how to play IX. So far, we've played the Steam version of VII (modded), then played VIII on an emulator, and I'm basically placed in front of the same choice with IX: I can either get the Steam version, or emulate it. Now, my nostalgic fondness for the crunchy texture of the PSX has been noted, and people have told me that they wished I hadn't gone that way because some of the VIII screenshots were apparently unreadable, but I don't know the merits of later ports and whatnot. So what's the thread's take on this?
 
I played the Steam port for a bit (now a full playrhrough though) and it worked fairly well, i didn't notice any issue.
 
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The main difference in the Steam port is some (but not all) models upscaled, and the addition of a built-in cheat menu and speed up feature.

The speed up feature is the most important one since the cheats aren't really necessary or wanted, and honestly I think the speed up feature is more valuable than quicksaves (although it does also autosave when moving between screens if google is telling me right, though I don't remember such).
 
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When I most recently replayed FF9 it was the PS4 remaster, which ran just fine and honestly looked pretty good without sacrificing the "feel" of the playstation looks, if that makes any sense. I think the steam version is the same; so as a big FF9 fan I do recommend it.

Zap Rowsdower said:
The main difference in the Steam port is some (but not all) models upscaled, and the addition of a built-in cheat menu and speed up feature.

The speed up feature is the most important one since the cheats aren't really necessary or wanted, and honestly I think the speed up feature is more valuable than quicksaves (although it does also autosave when moving between screens if google is telling me right).
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Oh good, yeah the speed up feature is nice to have.
 
Can't you technically also speed up emulation? I know I've done that a number of times.

I'd be in favor of emulation, personally, because the cheats, as mentioned, aren't necessary and would, if used, interfere with the experience substantially, in my opinion - and when one has the option just one button away, resisting is pretty hard. But I am always in favor of emulation, so that's hardly surprising.

Also, I think the FFVIII images were just fine; didn't even realize anybody had complained about them.

Zap Rowsdower said:
The speed up feature is the most important one since the cheats aren't really necessary or wanted, and honestly I think the speed up feature is more valuable than quicksaves
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I think, for FFIX in particular, quicksaves are better, because they make completing the multitude of minigames and sidequests a lot less stressful, and a "saving when changing screen" doesn't help that much with those. Plus, when you find out that a boss has a rare steal you want to get but you kill the boss accidentally, or, more relevant to the let's play, want to show off specific moves or patterns the boss has that you might have blown past, having a quicksave in the middle of the fight you can use to do that is extremely handy.
 
Yeah, for all I'm ultimately in favor of the HD steam one, it's only in favor by like 0.01% (mostly for the 'signaling to Squenix to make more games like this by showing activity on it') and am largely ambivalent - speeding up is indeed possible in emulators, I was mostly mentioning it to highlight that you wouldn't be missing that feature by using the official release (which is an important consideration with PSX summon animation lengths).

The real deciding factor should be if you already have the PC one in your steam library. If you do, go with that. If you don't, save yourself about eight euros (assuming its currently priced and discounted as much in the EU as it is on the US storefront) and emulate.
 
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Omicron said:
Still kind of crazy to me that we somehow managed to get this one done before New Year.

So, I don't intend to start the next game until January, since I'll be having family over for the holidays and all that, but I'd like to turn to the thread and ask people's opinions on how to play IX. So far, we've played the Steam version of VII (modded), then played VIII on an emulator, and I'm basically placed in front of the same choice with IX: I can either get the Steam version, or emulate it. Now, my nostalgic fondness for the crunchy texture of the PSX has been noted, and people have told me that they wished I hadn't gone that way because some of the VIII screenshots were apparently unreadable, but I don't know the merits of later ports and whatnot. So what's the thread's take on this?
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I've played a bit (basically, the prologue) on PC, it works fine on technical level.

Much like Pixel remaster, though, it has a very weird control scheme with, IIRC, limited ability to reassign the buttons, so that's something that can trip you up during the minigames and such.

The features it adds (cheats and speed up) are either not needed or come in-build in the emulation, so mostly the decision comes down to your need for state saves.
 
Omicron said:
Still kind of crazy to me that we somehow managed to get this one done before New Year.

So, I don't intend to start the next game until January, since I'll be having family over for the holidays and all that, but I'd like to turn to the thread and ask people's opinions on how to play IX. So far, we've played the Steam version of VII (modded), then played VIII on an emulator, and I'm basically placed in front of the same choice with IX: I can either get the Steam version, or emulate it. Now, my nostalgic fondness for the crunchy texture of the PSX has been noted, and people have told me that they wished I hadn't gone that way because some of the VIII screenshots were apparently unreadable, but I don't know the merits of later ports and whatnot. So what's the thread's take on this?
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I'm (slightly) for the Steam version because of the QoL features, which include not only speed up but also the option to turn the random encounters off.
The biggest issue of the Steam version is that while the character models are upscaled, the backgrounds notably aren't. Now there is a mod that fixes this, the Moguri mod, which I'll link in the spoiler. The installer also help in adressing some issues in the port.
Moguri mod

If you don't care about HD textures and whatnot go for emulation, savestates are very useful and the Steam version doesn't have them.
 
Can confirm the steam version works fine. Might start it up again to follow along although I might give the Moguri mod a spin for the following reasons:

1) The very nice looking updated background textures
2) The modifications to the steal rate

I've done my time with the PSX version stealing everything and I have no inclination to deal with that again.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
2) The modifications to the steal rate

I've done my time with the PSX version stealing everything and I have no inclination to deal with that again.
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Depending on how stealing interacts with savestates, that might honestly be more of a recommendation for the PSX version if it means you can just reload states repeatedly, instead of the lovely experiences I remember of "protect/shell entire party, defend and occasionally heal entire party, spam the Steal command for 20 minutes straight until you finally get rare item that's probably outdated in two hours anyways".
 
McFluffles said:
Depending on how stealing interacts with savestates, that might honestly be more of a recommendation for the PSX version if it means you can just reload states repeatedly, instead of the lovely experiences I remember of "protect/shell entire party, defend and occasionally heal entire party, spam the Steal command for 20 minutes straight until you finally get rare item that's probably outdated in two hours anyways".
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I don't remember the Steal mechanic being that bad. Half a dozen tries were enough to get the items.
 
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