Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
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- She/They
That's the thing, I think Squall did think about his OC for the longest time, imagining all the cool adventures it could go on and how it was the absolute best, but when asked about it is realizing that despite thinking about it for so long, his ideas boiled down to just those two. And he's just mortified realizing this himself.
And I mean, there's only so much I can talk, when I was a dorky teen I definitely had "cool" character ideas that had all the depth of a puddle, I just never had to endure the ordeal of explaining them to another person. So really, child soldier and professional mercenary Squall is just busy being deeply relatable.
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Oh man who's gonna have to tell Cid?
- Pronouns
- She/They
As for the end of Disk 2, it definitely feels less impactful overall compared to Disk 1, though that's no too surprising. We've settled into a bit of a routine, we know the battle system and overall tone of the game, and there's less there to really jump out and surprise us. And Disk 2 definitely makes sense as a low energy point, to give some setup and let things simmer a bit before the back half of the game kicks off into high gear - but of course, that depends on if the rest of the game is able to deliver. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing it in action.
I'm glad we get to see these bits and pieces of the Disciplinary Squad, I have to imagine that Fujin and Raijin have been spending the longest time trying to not just help Seifer, but to support him emotionally. I can see an arc where they try and save him from himself, to get him to see how self destructive his dream is to him, and that this scene here with them is right after they realized there's nothing they can do, and they're pinning all of their hopes on Squall. There must have been some dramatic confrontation shortly before the attack on Balamb started, where everything came to a head and Seifer pushed them away one last time. I really hope we see more of them going forward, they're too good a supporting squad to just leave them behind here.
Also monster hockey represent! The game didn't show it, but Edea didn't clear out Galbadia Garden with a military sweep, no, there was a dramatic hockey game where winner takes all, with the entire Garden on the line - and it was close, but the Galbadian Monster Squad made a grand comeback at the end, making hockey history forever. Really, all of this business with SeeD and sorceresses is all secondary compared to the real history being made.
I'm glad we get to see these bits and pieces of the Disciplinary Squad, I have to imagine that Fujin and Raijin have been spending the longest time trying to not just help Seifer, but to support him emotionally. I can see an arc where they try and save him from himself, to get him to see how self destructive his dream is to him, and that this scene here with them is right after they realized there's nothing they can do, and they're pinning all of their hopes on Squall. There must have been some dramatic confrontation shortly before the attack on Balamb started, where everything came to a head and Seifer pushed them away one last time. I really hope we see more of them going forward, they're too good a supporting squad to just leave them behind here.
Also monster hockey represent! The game didn't show it, but Edea didn't clear out Galbadia Garden with a military sweep, no, there was a dramatic hockey game where winner takes all, with the entire Garden on the line - and it was close, but the Galbadian Monster Squad made a grand comeback at the end, making hockey history forever. Really, all of this business with SeeD and sorceresses is all secondary compared to the real history being made.
Squall: Hand over everything you have!
Seifer: What?
Squall: You want to talk about the past? Now it is I who will take your lunch money!
OK. But. You have to understand. She can still step on him.
Calling it now: the beginning of Disc 3 is an extended Laguna flashback.
Dybbukpossesed
Falling Somewhere
- Location
- California
Laguna flashback that takes place during the explanatory revelations. Next time we see the main cast is going to pick up in medias res and hand out tidbits of the truth of what was going on with even more flashbacks.
Kuja
I'M A SQUIIIID
- Location
- AZ
- Pronouns
- He/Him
something something Garden, something something American public school system, something something private school vouchers
I can feel the Vulcan Brow Arch happening with this reply.
/glassespush
Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, the impression I always get of FFVIII is that by far the optimal way to play involves casting as few spells as possible and just Junctioning your guys until they smack everything to death with Attack.
Also I had to look up Seifer's battle model because the shots you have make him look like he's wielding his gunblade in icepick grip. He is not, in fact, doing that, but his gunblade does have a fucking pistol grip.
I think Seifer is possible even more of a friendless edgelord weirdo than Squall was, from what little we see of him. Obsessed with being a 'romantic knight', wears a trenchcoat everywhere, held back in school...
Also I had to look up Seifer's battle model because the shots you have make him look like he's wielding his gunblade in icepick grip. He is not, in fact, doing that, but his gunblade does have a fucking pistol grip.
I think Seifer is possible even more of a friendless edgelord weirdo than Squall was, from what little we see of him. Obsessed with being a 'romantic knight', wears a trenchcoat everywhere, held back in school...
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The funny thing is, that is actually how the characters treat him? The narrative clearly wants Seifer to have some degree of emotional weight, with the lines he's given, his dramatic comeback, his stances and Limit, but not a single character has any words of sympathy for him or even bothers trying to get him to stand down. When Seifer starts giving a speech, Squall's reply is "Shut up," and every other character he can talk to responds with some more polite variation on "fuck off," except Zell, who sorta acknowledges him as someone he has a score to settle with. Nobody has a word for him when he's lying on the ground defeated after both fights.
I think Seifer/Squall might actually be an early example of the "MY FATED RIVAL, WE MEET AGAIN AT LAST"/"God I just fucking hate this guy" dynamic. I mean, not fully, because we know from Squall's inner monologue that he does think a little about Seifer and their connection, but he sure doesn't show it, and Quistis, Selphie, Zell and Irvine all have him firmly at "if Seifer was on fire and it was raining I'd hold up an umbrella over the flames" levels of antagonism.
From the breakdown at Seifer's funeral I feel like Squall very strongly considers Seifer everything he doesn't want to end up becoming, despite how close he comes. Honestly think that Squall recognizing Seifer sucked and got a shitty (by Squall's standards) funeral was the catalyst for him to try and start changing. He must seem completely repulsive to Squall by now.
Meanwhile Selphie barely knows him and just completely writes him off.
Selphie:"Probably doesn't even like trains or murder, 0 out of 10!
Selphie:"Probably doesn't even like trains or murder, 0 out of 10!
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Nah, Seifer likes murder just fine—he simply can't perform.
daniel_gudman
KING (in land of blind)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Seifer has Draco Malfoy energy - evil schoolyard bully, who simply gets left behind as a villain when the protagonist has to deal with a back-from-dead evil wizard who did a horrible war last time around, instead of like, saying very mean things to his school friends.
Squall considered Seifer the person who he had to measure up to... and then literally graduated from that like halfway through the first arc.
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think the writers correctly understood that "high school dropout" and "valedictorian" make for natural foils to base a rivalry/inferiority complex dynamic around, but failed to grasp that the reason you'd normally make the protagonist into the high school dropout is because otherwise it doesn't feel like there's much of a challenge.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Seifer is a credit and an inspiration for all of us who ended up rooting for the Disney Villains in our youth!
All of us dream, but he alone woke up and seized it!
... I stand by my previous assessment.
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- He/Him
I'll be honest, I would hench for Maleficent.
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
And indeed, there's no real change in dialogue in the translation either, on account of there being very little - the biggest thing is that Fujin says "Sadness" rather than "Tired", but the sentiment is the same overall.
I did say that Final Fantasy VIII had the best villain in the series, didn't I?
Of course, we'll need to wait for the end before you can make a full comparison, but I don't think it'll be controversial to say that the Sorceress has offered a pretty solid showing so far.
While this is mostly true, a few spells can come very close to Ultima, in their field of focus.
Triple actually beats Ultima in SPD and HIT; Triple itself is also probably the second best junction overall, having the second spot in MAG and EVA, the third in STR, and the fourth in LUCK. Full-Life holds a comfortable second place in HP, VIT and SPR after Ultima, with the latter two being very close in value, Pain is third in MAG and second in LUCK, Aura is tied with Triple in STR and with Pain in LUCK, and Meltdown ties Full-Life for second on the VIT front, with Reflect only barely failing to do the same on the SPR side of things. Meteor is second in STR and fourth in MAG, but unremarkable on other junctions.
So, those are the spells to look into as competitors for Ultima - the endgame junction set, so to speak. If you want to keep any sort of difficulty, you probably don't want to have any of those junctions up until you find yourself overwhelmed by the enemies.
Flare, by comparison, is sixth place in STR and MAG, and way lower on everything else; ideally, you want to keep Flare unjunctioned and just cast it, since in terms of attack power, there's only two spells better, and one of those is Ultima (which has, yes, nearly twice the attack power of Flare - 80 vs 48), while the other is Meteor (stronger than even Ultima on a single target at higher MAG values, but weaker against groups), both of which are much rarer than Flare and thus not really suited to being workhorse spells you can cast in every fight and renew afterwards.
So, those are the spells to look into as competitors for Ultima - the endgame junction set, so to speak. If you want to keep any sort of difficulty, you probably don't want to have any of those junctions up until you find yourself overwhelmed by the enemies.
Flare, by comparison, is sixth place in STR and MAG, and way lower on everything else; ideally, you want to keep Flare unjunctioned and just cast it, since in terms of attack power, there's only two spells better, and one of those is Ultima (which has, yes, nearly twice the attack power of Flare - 80 vs 48), while the other is Meteor (stronger than even Ultima on a single target at higher MAG values, but weaker against groups), both of which are much rarer than Flare and thus not really suited to being workhorse spells you can cast in every fight and renew afterwards.
Now, as a suggestion that would still let you make use of the Ultima on the junction front, and one that the Auto-Junction will never offer you because there's always some stat that Ultima is better used for: put it as one of your Elem-Def Junction. It's the best there is there, just like in most anyplace else, but using it for elemental defense lets you play safer while keeping the damage your people do reasonable.
Speaking of damage:
This is a result of the way power is calculated; if you've already seen the damage formulas, I suppose there's no harm in going in more depth about this.
The formula for physical damage from the attack command is like this:
Damage = {(STR^2/16 )+ STR} x {(265-TargetVit)/256} x Power/16
Whereas Spells follow this formula here:
Damage = (MAG + Spell Power) x {(265-Target SPR)/4} x (Spell Power/256)
So, these look mostly similar; Spell Power is different for all spells, but to provide a reference, the first tier elemental spells like Fire have Spell Power 18, Water has Spell Power 26, the third tier elemental spells like Blizzaga have Spell Power 35, Flare has spell power 48, and Ultima has spell power 80.
The power of physical attacks mostly depends on which physical attack is being used, which mostly addresses limit; a normal attack has power 20 (so, slightly better than Thunder), but, as an example, Angelo Cannon has power 72 (just shy of Ultima). Furthermore, while physical attacks can at best, with Meltdown active, ignore the damage reduction from the enemy's VIT, spells would, if the enemy is under Meltdown, get an extra x64 modifier to their total damage. That's hefty.
So, that seems like spells should have the edge on physical attacks; Darkside inflicts trice the damage, so it's best compared to Triple, meaning it can be ignored for the purpose of comparisons. What's the issue then, with attacks outperforming spells? The first part of the formula, obviously.
MAG + Spell Power can, as its very max, be 255 + 80; with Meltdown in play, that gives us Ultima's max damage of 335 x 64 x (80/256) = 6700.
On the other hand, STR squared, at its very max, is well over 65k; even divided by 16, that's still over 4k damage, and it doesn't really matter if its a normal attack with power 20 or a limit hit with higher modifier - since the power is only divided by 16, unlike the spell power which is divided by 256, the modifier is always positive and increases the damage, in this case giving us the maximum damage a standard, non-critical attack can get, being 5k - and of course, Squall can call out crits on demand to reach 7.5k per strike. Thus out-damaging Ultima; and one might say "well, Ultima is multi-target, so it balances out", but then one remembers that spells are rare and need replacing if expended, whereas standard attacks don't, and also that the second best spell, Flare, is about half the damage of Ultima.
Note that at low level the damage calculation is fine and spells tend to be more evenly matched with attacks - it's once STR goes into three digits that the effects of it being squared start to become evident. And if all spells in the game had, let's say, twice the power, then it wouldn't matter nearly as much - the formula only starts to get out of balance once STR grows to being four times the value of spell power. It's another of those aspects of the game that make me think its mechanics weren't really play-tested for balance, only for bugs.
Damage = {(STR^2/16 )+ STR} x {(265-TargetVit)/256} x Power/16
Whereas Spells follow this formula here:
Damage = (MAG + Spell Power) x {(265-Target SPR)/4} x (Spell Power/256)
So, these look mostly similar; Spell Power is different for all spells, but to provide a reference, the first tier elemental spells like Fire have Spell Power 18, Water has Spell Power 26, the third tier elemental spells like Blizzaga have Spell Power 35, Flare has spell power 48, and Ultima has spell power 80.
The power of physical attacks mostly depends on which physical attack is being used, which mostly addresses limit; a normal attack has power 20 (so, slightly better than Thunder), but, as an example, Angelo Cannon has power 72 (just shy of Ultima). Furthermore, while physical attacks can at best, with Meltdown active, ignore the damage reduction from the enemy's VIT, spells would, if the enemy is under Meltdown, get an extra x64 modifier to their total damage. That's hefty.
So, that seems like spells should have the edge on physical attacks; Darkside inflicts trice the damage, so it's best compared to Triple, meaning it can be ignored for the purpose of comparisons. What's the issue then, with attacks outperforming spells? The first part of the formula, obviously.
MAG + Spell Power can, as its very max, be 255 + 80; with Meltdown in play, that gives us Ultima's max damage of 335 x 64 x (80/256) = 6700.
On the other hand, STR squared, at its very max, is well over 65k; even divided by 16, that's still over 4k damage, and it doesn't really matter if its a normal attack with power 20 or a limit hit with higher modifier - since the power is only divided by 16, unlike the spell power which is divided by 256, the modifier is always positive and increases the damage, in this case giving us the maximum damage a standard, non-critical attack can get, being 5k - and of course, Squall can call out crits on demand to reach 7.5k per strike. Thus out-damaging Ultima; and one might say "well, Ultima is multi-target, so it balances out", but then one remembers that spells are rare and need replacing if expended, whereas standard attacks don't, and also that the second best spell, Flare, is about half the damage of Ultima.
Note that at low level the damage calculation is fine and spells tend to be more evenly matched with attacks - it's once STR goes into three digits that the effects of it being squared start to become evident. And if all spells in the game had, let's say, twice the power, then it wouldn't matter nearly as much - the formula only starts to get out of balance once STR grows to being four times the value of spell power. It's another of those aspects of the game that make me think its mechanics weren't really play-tested for balance, only for bugs.
Would it surprise you to know that, for a lot of players, Cerberus is the hardest fight on Disk 2?
He's generally a serious stumbling block on most blind let's plays - he's a skill check of sort, in that knowledge of the system makes the fight trivial, but anybody who hasn't learned how the game functions can have trouble.
Just imagine how that fight would have gone if the auto-junction had put 100 Thundaga on your Squall's Elem-Att (Cerberus absorbs the Thunder element, and 100 Thundaga turns 100% of the attack elemental, so each one of Squall's attacks would then have healed him), in addition to the Aero on Quistis'. Or if you hadn't realized how junction works at all.
So, I went back and forth a bit on this, but I think you need to be told that one of Alexander's abilities is hidden.
This is actually nothing new - you probably noticed that a lot of GF only unlocks abilities like "Summon Damage +30%" if you've learned the preceding "Summon Damage +20%" and "Summon Damage +10%", and Diablos "Enc-None" only showed up after mastering "Enc-50%", but Alexander's does this in a very non-intuitive manner, in that his big refine ability, "Med LV-up", only shows up after you've mastered "Med Arts".
I'm mentioning "Med Lv-up" because it's the only way to obtain a certain group of items, those being the "Potion Plus", "Hi-Potion Plus", and "Remedy Plus". The first two heal double the amount, but "Remedy Plus" actually creates a superior version of the base Remedy that heals everything, just like Esuna - meaning that "Med Lv-Up" is the second element necessary (the other being Tool-Refine, which you already have) to make the Item command as versatile as the Magic command, if not more so - since, unlike with spells, using Items doesn't lowers your junction and, rather than having to draw or refine things from cards, you can just buy most items.
And, of course, having Esuna on tap as an item helps a lot when you get silenced alongside other status effects; I'd suggest you to keep a dozen or so Remedy Plus on hand, I don't think you'll be disappointed if you do.
I mean, the clash of the Gardens is a pretty kickass sequence. Not saying that the ending inside Galbadia Garden isn't a bit lower intensity than the assassination attempt at the end of Disk 1, but overall the sequence isn't really low-intensity, I don't think. Just a bit less theatrical, perhaps.
FourthWall
Love & Destroy
- Location
- Chiraq
I just want to say that "demi-human ice hockey club" is one of the best ideas of all time.
Final Fantasy Mutant Hockey League when?
E: The vibe I get from FF8 so far is that the devs are feeling themselves a little too hard. The highly experimental gameplay mechanics, hiding of important narrative bits for the romance plot driving the heart of the story, the FMV flexing, the storyline that feels both cryptic and weirdly cliche.
It feels like dangerous hubris unless you're buying what they're selling.
Final Fantasy Mutant Hockey League when?
E: The vibe I get from FF8 so far is that the devs are feeling themselves a little too hard. The highly experimental gameplay mechanics, hiding of important narrative bits for the romance plot driving the heart of the story, the FMV flexing, the storyline that feels both cryptic and weirdly cliche.
It feels like dangerous hubris unless you're buying what they're selling.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I am going to horsewhip everyone in this thread who misnames hockey as "ice hockey" >:[
What do you mean? Hockey is the sport you play on a field. Like this:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
adds name to horsewhip.txt
Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Squenix getting a bad case of hubris circa the turn of the millennium with immense ambitions but reach exceeding grasp you say?
*Looks at Xenogears*
*looks at Chrono Cross*
*looks at Vagrant Story*
*looks at FF8*
Gotta wonder what was in the water at Squaresoft HQ in those days.
NexysDhyArchen
Throne Breaker
The more we get into it, the more I feel the Final Fantasy narrative stereotypical Evil Magic Overlord is causing everything kinda ruins what could have been an interesting setting. If VIII had leaned more into the shonen battle high school dynamics, with disc 1 being about life at and as a SEEDschooler, with the Gardens being explicitly Rival Schools, and the last few disc arcs being about Graduating and facing Consequences... well right now I feel it could have been more coherent and interesting in retrospect.
Also, the Sorceress fight touches upon an interesting GF implication: She has Alexander, of all summons. The series staple of Holy Judgement of Man. And the question I raise is: was Alexander the Sorceress' GF, or Edea's? Which one Alexander was junctioned under/within has interesting implications for why. And very intriguing facets when compared to the GF used by the Final Boss, and where she got THAT one.
Also, the Sorceress fight touches upon an interesting GF implication: She has Alexander, of all summons. The series staple of Holy Judgement of Man. And the question I raise is: was Alexander the Sorceress' GF, or Edea's? Which one Alexander was junctioned under/within has interesting implications for why. And very intriguing facets when compared to the GF used by the Final Boss, and where she got THAT one.
Thozmp
Gets my kicks above the waistline, Sunshine.
Hmm... Edea has Alexander junctioned? She has the GF, but unknown if she actually junctioned it. Still that brings up a thought. If Edea was possessed by the Sorceress, is it an immediate thing? Or is it something that takes over the person over time? And if it was something done over a period of time, could Edea have junctioned Alexander with the intention of wiping her memories? Like, it's been mentioned that Edea the Sorceress seems to be unaware of certain things that she should know, but could have Edea the Matron have done that intentionally?
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