Holy fucking shit do not try to get the perfect 600 points in the SeeD Exam. The confluence of factors needed to 120% it was built by psychopaths for psychopaths, and they knew it because they didn't put a reward for doing that.
You need to talk to nobody and follow orders (easy). Kill Ifrit with less than 7 seconds on the timer (easy). Get 75 kills during the mission (easy). Only escape once, when the game forces you to escape during the first spider-bot fight (oof). Kill the spider-bot (OOF). Then escape within 5 minutes (AAAAAGH).
Those last three requirements are hell if you try to perfect all three. Extra hell if you try to keep your level low at the same time.
Problem 1: Killing the spider-bot. Surprisingly the easiest part. It's a badass but if you know all the right junctions you'll kick its ass.
Problem 2: You have to escape in 5 minutes. The true hell. You can't just be strong enough to win against the spider. You have to be strong enough to kill it's extra lives in 2 hits each AND figure out a way to get access to Haste, which is not possible even if you juction the strongest magic available through the cheatiest exploits. You need to go deeper. I will not explain that part here, for fear of breaking the playthrough, but it's contributed to the hell because ███ ████ ██ ██ ████ █████ ████████ ████████ ██████ ██ ██████ ███ ████ █████ █████ ███ ████ ████████ ███ ██████ ████ ██ ███ ████ ██ ████ ████ █████ ████ ████ ███ █████ ██ ██████ ██████ ███ █████ ████ ██ ██ ███ ██ ████ ████ █████ ███ ██ ███ ████.
Redacted in hindsight.
Problem 3: Random encounters turn back on after the spider dies. If you encounter even *one* random encounter you will lose your perfect score. You can't escape, and killing the encounter will take too long. Therefore, you need to perfectly dodge the spider all the way up until the screen after it crushes a car, then challenge it and kill it ASAP, then make your way back across 2 screens and hope you never trip a random encounter the whole way through. This includes knowing that there's an invisible spot on the mountain chase where you will unavoidably be caught if you *run* but not if you *walk*, and knowing how to juke the spider on the bridge, *AND* knowing you need to shoo the dog out of the way at the square to avoid losing your perfect score. And finally, it helps to trip an encounter on the elevator before Biggs and Wedge to hopefully give the RNG some mercy. I also saw a dude try to cheese the random encounter RNG by opening and closing his menu every few steps. Dunno if it works but I tried it anyways.
So if you are strong enough to kill the spider like a random encounter, know the chase enough to evade it up the very last second, and have the BLESSING of RNGesus to give you peace on the last two screens you MIGHT be able to get the perfect 120%. I managed to escape at 25:05 after a dozen tries, including a half blind run where I fought my way up to the spider, realized I had insufficiently prepared and had to reload my safety save right before the Exam. And each try involves refighting Biggs, Wedge, and the Elvoret. And drawing Siren. Thank god I know an alternative source of Double too, so I can skip drawing any from Elvoret.
At least if you're strong enough to attempt the run, you're strong enough to one-shot all of them.
If I hadn't gotten 600 points after watching minutes of dialogue after the whole exam, I'd have probably quit the game for a week.
Incidentally, while skimming the previous posts to see if there was something I'd missed in this regard, my attention was drawn to the initial briefing as the group approached Dollet.
Now, the general read about the withdrawal in the thread seems to be 'Dollet cheaped out, so we left' or some such. But it struck me, isn't that kind of weird? This isn't like putting quarters in a dryer. Whether it was time or objective based, the terms and the payment should already have been laid out beforehand, so if they were going to withdraw at a certain time, they should have known that at the start. And if they weren't going to do all the objectives that were listed in the briefing... well, then the objectives they weren't doing shouldn't have been listed in the briefing. If Dollet had decided not to pay what they'd agreed to (or at all), then that should have lead to a much angrier response than what was shown...
My take on it when I originally played was that we were withdrawing *because* Dollet had made the deal with Galbadia (which sort of fits with one of Xu's comments), but now I see that doesn't track either, since Selphie was dispatched with the withdrawal order before that happened. So I find myself without an explanation for that part of thngs that I find entirely plausible.
I suspect that Galbadia probably had a plan for 'what if a bunch of SeeD's show up and start kicking our face in?', so I think it's pretty plausible that while Squad B was sitting around doing nothing (I presume a timeskip of hours) that Dollet, SeeD, and Galbania worked through the negotiation of 'SeeD leaves. Then Galbania will leave, and the communication tower will stay online'.
If the communication tower is currently fixed at the moment of the deal is probably less important, the agreement probably allows for galbania to ensure that it's working once peace breaks out.
The original plan was for SeeD to defend against Galbania forces to retake the city, but if dollet can stop the counter attack by giving something up that they didn't use and is infested with monsters, and thus can stop paying SeeD for another battle (or hourly wage, or whatever), that's a pretty good deal. Galbania was probably just seeing if they could roll over Dollet, or try to fuck up their military while they went after their true goal.
So this leads to Squad B waiting for a counter attack that never comes, and has a messenger dispatched to give them an extremely generous period to withdraw, probably negotated with Dollet and Galbania to minimize fighting, after SeeD leaves (probably with a retainer if the G-army decides to break agreement), Galbania will return to whereever.
But since no one has radio communication, the troops either don't know about the agreement, or are acting in self defense when a bunch of teenagers (with attidtude ) show up and start killing them. So there's this huge fight after the agreement was reached, but given the time delays, it's just kinda shrugged off as the cost of doing business. Except for Siefer, who is punished.
(The war of 1812 had one of it's most famous battles happen after the peace treaty was signed, just because it took so long to tell the forces that the war was over, for example).
Also note that squad C, who was right next to the beach, doesn't leave until squad B shows up. Which could be as little as a minute or two from the last boat leaving. They probably got their withdraw orders earlier, but were told to wait until the tip of the spear (Squad B) withdrew first. Or they're idiots and that's why they failed the exam.
The PC version, I am told, has the Chocobo World game built in, but there's apparently also a specific combination of emulators with an obnoxious setup process that allows you to play it from the PSX version.
I'm also told that Chocobo World is one of the less fun ways of breaking the game though, so it's a question of if you really want to...
So can confirm the classic PC version has Chocobo World built in, it's a menu option whenever you boot up the game:
And to my knowledge, it isn't present in the Remastered PC version which instead adds all the unique items from Chocobo World to being obtained in other manners in the game proper.
That said, I can also confirm that playing Chocobo World is easily one of the most boring methods of breaking the game (yes, even beyond low level running and drawing and ________ for hours on end) because it's blatantly designed for its original machinery of what's basically a Tamogachi idle game, meaning you're either leaving it running for hours or even days, or actively playing a game with all of two buttons to open menus and input menus. 100% not worth it beyond the first five minutes of "wow what a novelty", I'll just live with not having a few unique summons or whatever that I can look up on Youtube.
The really interesting thing about Quistis is that, being the same age as Squall and co, she would have been their classmate only a few years ago, until she outperformed everyone else hard enough to get put in charge of the class. Makes the dynamic between her and the students she teaches a bit complicated.
What's that? Just don't use crazy strats? I don't think my brain is capable of handling that. Maybe back before I learned about the level scaling, but that ship has sailed.
If you want to actually have a good reason to use all of the strategies to their utmost, you could just, upon starting the game, head with Squall to the training center and kill Grats until you're level 100; then you get to experience the whole game with the enemies at their most powerful, and using crazy strats is a sort of legitimate answer to keep up with the challenge.
Mind, if you put all your effort into breaking the game, it'll still fold like wet paper, but at least you really have to work for it - half-assed exploits won't cut it against max stat enemies, you need to pull out everything to overcome them.
There's really never a reason to. The only things that Chocobo World has that can't be gotten in the base game are three items (one of which is the Ribbon), plus a couple of others are easier to obtain and/or there's more quantities of them, but it's really never worth the hassle; it's one case where I'm fine with just cheating the items into the game.
I wanted to keep it for later, but now the subject has been brought, it's time to reveal something about the french version...
In french FF8, the Ribbon has been translated.... Freud.
...
"Behold, I am using (Sigmund) Freud to protect my mental health ! It will give my GF a sex-driven ability who will allow me to fight my nightmares my ennemies ! "
...
So much to unpack there. I don't know if I find this translation absolutely genius or awesomely stupid...
I wanted to keep it for later, but now the subject has been brought, it's time to reveal something about the french version...
In french FF8, the Ribbon has been translated.... Freud.
...
"Behold, I am using (Sigmund) Freud to protect my mental health ! It will give my GF a sex-driven ability who will allow me to fight my nightmares my ennemies ! "
...
So much to unpack there. I don't know if I find this translation absolutely genius or awesomely stupid...
Are you sure it's not just a gigantic pile of cocaine, which amps you up enough status effects just slide right off? Freud was infamously addicted, after all.
Are you sure it's not just a gigantic pile of cocaine, which amps you up enough status effects just slide right off? Freud was infamously addicted, after all.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Omi has noted the bit of lore that says GFs may cause memory issues. The girl he rescued in the training center recognized both Squall and Quistis, and they clearly didn't recognize her. Despite mystery girl apperently having been close enough to call Quistis 'Quisty'. I'm sure these two things have absolutely no relation at all.
Also IIRC it was mentioned that Galbadia Garden doesn't us GFs. This won't have any story relevance at all either.
Well, all the details of his theories, anyway. The very basic stuff that he was one of the pioneers of-- the subconscious mind influencing your behavior, past trauma having lingering effects you might not be aware of, etc, that held up. It was just every thing after that extremely broad foundation that was debunked (but to be fair, he was creating theories of how the human mind worked by primarily dealing with upper class repressed Victorian people, so the extreme sexual focus does make sense).
So this is funny given how this arose from a discussion of the choices of the FR translation, but Freud has retained an enduring presence within the French popular consciousness and understanding of psychology that's vastly stronger than in the Anglo world, or frankly anywhere outside of this country. This has probably changed in the last ten or twenty years, but I remember when the Oedipal Complex was just something people would bring up in conversations about child development as if it was just an accepted fact of psychiatry.
I remember when the Oedipal Complex was just something people would bring up in conversations about child development as if it was just an accepted fact of psychiatry.
So this is funny given how this arose from a discussion of the choices of the FR translation, but Freud has retained an enduring presence within the French popular consciousness and understanding of psychology that's vastly stronger than in the Anglo world, or frankly anywhere outside of this country. This has probably changed in the last ten or twenty years, but I remember when the Oedipal Complex was just something people would bring up in conversations about child development as if it was just an accepted fact of psychiatry.
It's not the we Anglo's don't respect Freud or use him the popular conscience, it's just the fact his stuff (excepting the foundational) was debunked and that is what we focus on. Purely the foundationals, and our popular stuff tends to end at id, ego, and super-ego. So the idea of Freud "preventing mental trauma" is weird.
Welcome back, class, to Final Fantasy VIII 101. Today's lesson:
Fighting Satan
Last time we were here, Diablos (whose French name is Nosferatu) kicked my ass. So how did he do that, and how do we beat him?
Well, Diablos's entire gimmick is gravity magic. Gravity magic, if you'll recall, deals percentage-based damage. So for instance, when Diablos casts Demi, which plays out the sickest 'black hole distortion' visual effect, the target loses…
A quarter of their current HP.
Yes, a quarter. Not half. There is a reason other localizations renamed Demi to Quart, because it deals 25% damage.
Demi is Diablos's most frequent attack, and his least threatening. With my characters sitting at a base of ~500 to ~600 HP, it deals a little under 150 HP against a character at max HP, which is perfectly manageable.
It's the only respite we'll get from the beast. His two other moves are much, much worse. And foremost is, of course, Gravija.
Gravity magic has some of the coolest visuals in the series.
Gravija is, I think, the first -ja tier spell we've seen in the game line, as pointed out by Terrabrand. Tier 4 spell, we might call them, a step above -ga. It targets the whole party and deals 75% of their current HP as damage, pretty much always pushing everyone down into crit range; it's by far the strongest attack we've seen in the game so far in terms of damage from max HP.
Now. If you're following, you'll have instantly spotted an issue with that strategy: Percentage-based damage keys off current HP, not max HP, meaning it can never kill us. If Diablos uses Gravija to send Selphie plummeting down to 111 HP, and follows it with a Demi, that Demi will deal all of 27 damage, weaker than most random encounters. And then the next Gravija will deal 63 damage, leaving her at 21 damage. It's Zenos's Paradox: it gets incrementally closer but never reaches the finish line.
There's just one problem.
Diablos's third move is a physical attack that deals 260+ damage.
That means, any time he uses Gravija, it puts the whole party within instant kill range. And remember: This game doesn't allow us to multicast Cure. That means, if we want to evade instant death from Diablos's next claw attack, we have to cast Cure three times, to heal the whole party. Even so, because Cure doesn't heal all HP, we're still in a scenario where Demi (which can't kill us) can bring back the character we just healed down into instant kill range.
Diablos's claw is his finisher. Everything else is set-up.
So! There are a few ways we can try to tackle this. On my first attempt, Selphie of all people ends up surviving the longest (Selphie is notably lv 8, two lower than Zell and four lower than Squall, because the game doesn't seem to have good XP share mechanics; because enemy level scales with average party level Selphie keeps the enemies weaker but that unfortunately still leaves her stats kinda sucking). And this lets us take a look at her Limit!
I love Selphie's casting poses.
It's a slot machine?
But not like the way we had in VI and VII where we had an actual slot system by Setzer or Cait Sith; instead Selphie has a selection of spells she can cast from and when we use her Limit Break, she rolls a random result - like Fire 2 times, which casts Fire twice, or Full-Cure, which fully heals the party. Every time she rolls, we are given a chance to "Do over" and roll again for a better result - but the ATB isn't on pause during that time, it seems, so when I try to fish for better spells I keep eating attacks. It's tricky. Offensively the results can be pretty strong, like you can see above that I rolled Thundara (a spell I don't have access to yet) three times, so Selphie cast it three times, 180 damage a time, for a total of… 540 damage. So 1/16th of Diablos's HP.
Yeah, that's not gonna solve our problem.
Anyway, there's another problem: Because I haven't needed Items so far, everyone is still only on Draw/Magic/GF, and since I don't have Life or a resurrecting GF and don't have the Item command to use Phoenix Down, I can't raise any KO'd character. So I quickly get sucked into a defeat spiral that ends in a Game Over.
Short answer: Also no. While this is promising in terms of damage potential, our characters are still using their starting weapons and I only have two GFs capable of Junctioning Strength, so their damage is low, and spamming LBs requires them to hang out in the 'instant death' range of HP, dying the moment Diablos decides he wants to use his claws instead of his magic.
So how about Diablos's own magic?
Diablos has two Draw options: Cure, and Demi (Demi starts out listed as ??? and is revealed once he's used the spell once). But the question is, would Diablos even be vulnerable to his own magic?
Well… There's something standing out in the way of us finding out. You see, we've never had reason to see it before, but Draw can actually fail. There is a complicated formula based on the level of the spell we're using, our level and our Magic rating that determines how many casts we Draw each time and if it's under 0, it fails.
It fails a lot. Like, far more than half the time. And because I am, at first, using Draw-Stock, that means even in the event that I do succeed in Drawing, I've wasted several turns on it and must now spend another turn casting it. Granted…
…it turns out, Gravity magic does work on Diablos after all. Demi hits him for over two thousand damage, much, more than everything else in our arsenal.
We can try to optimize this. If we Draw-Cast instead of Draw-Stocking, then we only spend one turn on it, so the damage comes out much faster when Draw does hit.
But still not very fast. The Draw rates are just that low. And Diablos is still putting us through the same ringer of Gravija into physical attacks, and even after giving my party members the Item command so they could heal with Hi-Potions (1000 HP heal, so it heals their full track instead the small amount Cure does) and Phoenix Downs, the pressure Diablos puts on us is too high. We wipe again.
At this point, I briefly consider leaving Diablos enough for now. Sure, his level and stats will increase with scaling, but I don't care about the HP/damage stuff - I just want the opportunity to use Abilities and Junctioning to increase my Magic rating so my Draw chance is higher and I can finally fucking hit him with his own spell.
…turns out I don't need to do that.
After checking my inventory, I realize that Selphie has two GFs with Magic-Junction equipped, even though she only needs one. So if I pass one of the two to Squall, and Junction his Magic stat to a spell he has 100 of… Then Squall and Selphie both have a Magic rating of 20. And it turns out, if I just have Zell do literally anything else and have only Squall and Selphie Drawing with Magic 20, then they actually succeed in Drawing Demi more than half the time.
This doesn't solve the problem of the tremendous pressure Diablos puts on us. Something else does instead.
Diablos has a hidden mechanic. If we Draw-Cast Demi on him, it works as normal. But if we Draw-Stock Demi, then cast Demi from your stocked Magic… Then he 'rewards' us by casting Curaga on the character who cast it.
Which means Diablos is our most effective source of healing.
At this point there is a clear plan. Zell is on support duty. Squall and Selphie Draw-Stock as much Demi as they can. Then they take turn casting Demi. Even though Diablos is freely throwing around Demi and Gravija, he is also healing us as much as he hurts us, so the whole thing is stable, and we have enough HP to survive the occasional claw swipe.
Now, I'm sure I know what you'll say. "But Omi, won't Demi have the same diminishing returns for you as it does for Diablos, the damage being reduced with every attack since it's based on his current HP?" And yeah, sure, but like.
It doesn't matter at all. The first Demi deals 2200 damage. The second deals 1650 damage. The third does 1237 damage. The fourth deals 793 damage. The fifth does 430 damage, which is just about as much damage as I can deal to him with a GF for twice as much casting time. The sixth cast does 217 damage.
Even with Demi dealing reduced damage every time, its damage is so high that it blasts everything else I have out of the water until the fifth or sixth use. It's to the point that doing anything but casting Demi is, for most of the fight, noise that just wastes a character's turn, since the damage is so low and it reduces the damage Demi would next anyway.
And once we have brought Diablos down to ~600 HP, we can just beat him with normal magic and Limit Breaks.
Boom, baby.
That was a bit of fun! It was interesting engaging with this fight on FF8's own terms, having to seriously take into consideration both the mechanics of Drawing, level scaling's effects on our ability to tackle threats by improving our characters, and the importance of stat junctioning. It didn't redeem level scaling in general (it's a bad idea that shouldn't be used), but it showed that it can have value in limited circumstances - the fact that I couldn't outlevel Diablos meant that, as a challenging optional boss I could tackle whenever, I was instead incentivized to sit down, try things, and see what I could do to beat it on its own terms. And I eventually did it without needing to grind either XP or AP or hunting for stronger spells to Junction, but with my available toolset! That was nice. And it's nice to face challenge in an FF game that isn't the VII superbosses.
So, what does Diablos have for us as a GF? HP-J, Mag-J (so we can now give all three party members a Magic-Junction GF), Hit-J (which junctions magic to Hit rate), Abilityx3 (which allows us to have up to three passive Abilities equipped, which will probably be really useful eventually, but right now I don't have any passive Abilities aside from Siren's 'reveal hidden draw points' ability. It can also teach Darkside, but the game doesn't say what that does, Mug, which is still the classic "steal and attack" command, Encounter-Half (which halves encounter rates), and the ability to refine both Gravity and Status magic from items.
So… That's a lot, and a lot of unique stuff. I'm actually not sure which I want first; there's a lot here that's appealing.
For now, it's time to move on with the plot.
HAH! AS IF! No, we're hunting for trading cards.
LISTEN. THIS IS WHAT FF8 DOES TO YOU. I HAVE TO RENDER THE FAITHFUL EXPERIENCE OF PLAYING IT.
Specifically, I'm looking for unique cards. One of them is found easily enough: A kid who is constantly running in the atrium has the MiniMog card, which has two very powerful sides (9s on top and bottom) and two very weak ones (2 and 3 on the left and right). He doesn't always play it, but eventually we get it - his other cards are weak. Next, we need to hunt down the Trepies, as they have a unique card reflecting a very special character in the game…
…Biggs and Wedge.
What? No, I'm serious. Those two guys from the Comm Tower, they're a boss card that the Trepies have.
…okay so apparently they also have a Quistis card, which is why I went after them. But after over a dozen matches against Trepies, they have yet to drop that card. So I am giving up for now.
LET'S GO TO BALAMB.
Kind of a rude thing to say in the middle of Balamb.
Balamb has some new incidental dialogue, like a funny exchange between Zell and the hotel owner which accidentally leads to the owner finding his new slogan (Zell: "Blow it out your rear!" Owner: "That's it! 'Where the breeze will 'blow' you away!"), children looking at an atlas and namedropping country names ("Powerful Galbadia, mysterious Eshtar, destroyed Centra…") Wait, actually.
I can't believe it took me this long to think about checking the world map.
Thank god, we're no longer dealing with the awful transparency of the VII map.
The minimap actually shows up as a globe in the corner of the screen, which is neat. As for this… Hmm. It's hard to tell anything just from this map alone. You can see that Balamb is a small island-continent in the northern hemisphere; the dot on the same latitude is Dollet, and the dot below that is Timber, our new destination. Which I assume means that this western landmass is the Galbadian continent.
Speaking of which, the Information tab in the Tutorial (fuck it, I'm going to call it the Codex now) has updated! As I was warned in-thread, it looks like it updates every time someone mentions a specific topic in dialogue. So now that we've been sent to Timber, the Codex informs us that Timber is "A city located south of Dollet in the forest area. It was an independent country before neighboring country Galbadia invaded 18 years ago. There are numerous resistance groups fighting for independence to this day."
Hmm. 18 years ago is such a suspicious number. That would be just before the worldwide radio interference started, right? This is too much to be a coincidence. My guess is, either Galbadia caused the WRI soon after it started its conquest for reasons related to said conquest, or someone else caused it to disrupt Galbadia's war effort and ability to expand.
Definitely sounds like Galbadia is our resident Empire, though. Not with that exact name, though - but notably VII also had its Empire be a megacorp and still fit the same tropes.
Alright. Let's head to Timber and see what life is like under Galbadian rule.
TRAAAAIIIIIINS
Transoceanic underground tunnel!
The train takes us on a path through a Chunnel-style undersea tunnel, which Zell and Selphie both (correctly) think is the coolest thing ever while Squall is playing it off like he doesn't care.
The fact that there is sunlight outside may seem contradictory with the underwater tunnel but contextually this scene happens before they enter the Chunnel.
We even have a private cabin sponsored by SeeD! This is the peak of luxury. Also, while Zell thinks the train is cool, nobody is enjoying that train as much as Selphie is. She has an entire song about trains she seemingly made up on the spot.
I'm starting to see what people are saying about Selphie maybe being a little ASD.
It's interesting to me how VII and VIII both had trains as prominent plot beats (talking about the early trip through Midgar here, not the Huge Materia heist), and they're so different it has to be intentional. Midgar's train is utilitarian, grungy, it's used by the common people; cramped corridors, simple benches, naked steel structure, full of people, homeless guy hanging out on one of the benches, it's like any older subway you might find in a major modern city. Meanwhile, this train is conspicuous in its luxury. Even metal surfaces are smooth, polished to a shine; everything is paneled with decorative engravings; the main colors are wine purple, rich browns, and gold. Look at those lamps! The whole thing is thoroughly art déco and thoroughly high class.
We are not Avalanche, the hidden resistance group hiding among the common people to escape the eye of the surveillance state. We are SeeD, the world-traveling mercenary elite in high demand everywhere, condescending to come to the aid of some small resistance group in an occupied country. The difference could not be more stark.
Anyway, Zell tells Squall they even have magazines here, and hands him an issue of… "Pet Pals Vol 1." Sure!
Zell asks Squall if he knows about Timber's history, delivering pretty much the same info we got from the Codex earlier; Squall dryly replies "Thank you, Mr Know-It-All-Zell," but Zell doesn't seem to detect the sarcasm.
Finally, Selphie joins them in their cabin, and she… isn't feeling well. She's feeling really sleepy. Squall tells her to get some rest if she's tired, but this seems like more than that; soon enough, Zell is yawning and feeling sudden fatigue himself, Selphie waddles over and curls up asleep on the bench, Zell falls back into his seat, and Squall himself is struggling to resist an onslaught of overpowering tiredness.
It's no use. Soon enoughn Squall collapsed, and the entire cabin lies unconscious.
Oh boy.
Here we go.
Our characters dream of three Galbadian soldiers.
Which we are in control of. (Although all we can do is move forward.)
Yes, that's right: We switched to a new party.
God but that's a swerve. And like, if we just had a transition to 'another adventure is unfolding somewhere,' that would be one thing, but no - everyone falls asleep, we see thought panels of confusion, and we play as three soldiers running through a burning jungle.
That last screenshot… Those patches of burning tall grass. That jungle. That feels like it might be directly evoking Vietnam War movies.
And in case you're wondering, yes: Our fabulous new trio, which has yet to exchange more than one line of dialogue, are susceptible to random encounters.
Ward, Laguna and Kiros.
They each wield a unique weapon: Ward (the big guy) wields a giant harpoon, which he throws like a javelin; Laguna fights with a machine gun; and Kiros dual-wields katars or 'punch-daggers.'
Incidentally, as if to welcome us into this new unfamiliar territory, this sequence has its own battle theme - fittingly titled The Man With the Machine Gun.
…I have to admit, they all look really fucking cool.
Their weapons aside, though, there is something even weirder about this trio: they share Squall, Zell and Selphie's magic and GFs. Which could be a mere gameplay convenience, although it could also be… More.
We just keep running through the forest for a while, more and more thought-bubbles of confusion flashing across the screen, defeating more and more monsters.
Finally, near a river, the group pauses to catch a breath and talk.
Ward: "Hey, aren't we here to fight a war? You know, against the almighty Timber army?" Kiros: "Yeah, so why are we wasting our time messin' with these animals?" Laguna: "Well, you see… It's just that, uhh…" Kiros: "Don't tell me we're lost again." Laguna: "Anyway… We're goin' home. Deling City, here we come!"
Okay We're doing the anime comedy routine with the party leader with no sense of orientation. Zoro from One Piece. I can roll with that, although isn't 'getting lost in the middle of an attack and then going back to the capital' kind of desertion and susceptible of landing you in court martial? Ah, who cares.
Here's the thing though: We know Galbadia conquered Timber 18 years ago. So if these guys are engaged in the war against the Timber army, then that would mean… All of this is happening in the past.
Either that or they're just putting down a resistance movement in the modern day but 'almighty Timber army' doesn't sound like that.
Soon enough, our characters find their APC, get in, and drive back to Deling City.
It's a little sudden, actually; I expected more time spent on the journey, but the jungle sequence is brief, we find the car, and then… We're there. In what must be the capital of Galbadia.
Laguna just parked in the middle of the streets, ignoring Ward's protests, and immediately caused a traffic jam.
You know, there's 'laid back' and there's 'I'm literally going to park my armored personnel carrier in the middle of a public plaza in a major city.' Like, Laguna, my dude. C'mon. Spare a thought for whoever's job this is going to be to fix.
Ah, well. Laguna's on his way to court martial for desertion anyway so what's a little illegal parking.
Laguna invites his men for a drink, and they tease him over the fact that he doesn't even like drinking - there's another reason entirely behind that invitation, namely the piano lady playing at the bar he always takes them to. Laguna is extremely flustered at this.
We can explore a little bit of Delling City, though most of it is blocked off by soldiers - seems pretty clear we'll be visiting it more thoroughly in the future. From what we can already glimpse of it, though, it's, hmm…
It's Paris?
Okay, no, it's probably not. It's probably drawing from any number of European cities whose historical centers are characterized by abundant urban greenery, historical monuments such as (here) a Triumphal Arch, spacious streets, and luxury hotels. But to me, personally, it evokes Paris. The inner frescoes on that triumphal arch are reminiscent of Mesopotamian reliefs, which could mean it's a historical monument or it could just be a modern imitation of a historical style in the same way France's Napoleonic-era Arche de Triumphe evokes Roman frescoes. Alternatively, given the style and the existence of a mysterious nation named Eshtar… it could be a reference to the Ishtar Gate of Babylon.
In any case, that Galbadia Hotel is where we're headed; the soldiers out there are on a first-name basis with Laguna and tease him for coming back to his hot pianist.
…you know, having the military deployed in your capital isn't… normal, is it? My perspective on this is a little skewed because the world changed post-9/11 and I feel I've seen my fair share of military in full gear on the streets of Paris, but before that? That seems anomalous. Like, the capital may be lively, but it's half locked down. And sure, they're at war with Timber, but that would seem to indicate a state of insecurity at home.
…unless I have completely misunderstood the setup, and Deling City is in fact the capital of Timber, currently under Galbadian occupation while the army fights the insurgency in the countryside. That would also make sense. I may have completely jumped to the conclusion here.
We head into the hotel, and downstairs, to the cozy, classy bar/restaurant below.
…the other clients are also soldiers in uniform.
Yeah, either this is Occupied Timber, or the Galbadian Capital is having something of a security crisis of its own and is under the military's grip. Hard to tell which at this point. The blue soldier is here to celebrate joining the engineers' corps, while the red officer introduces himself as Julia (the piano lady)'s bodyguard, though it's unclear if it's an actual position he has or if he just named himself that to scare people off her. When we talk to the receptionist and she tells us our usual table is ready, we can respond either with "I'll walk around a bit first," "Alright, I'm there!" or a grayed out option - "Huh? Excuse me?"
Selecting it causes Laguna to feel weird. His companions ask him if he's alright, and he says he doesn't know why but he feels weird. Selecting the same option again has him tell his friends that ever since 'we were in Timber' (okay so we're definitely in Galbadia, good to know), his head has been buzzing. Kiros admits to the same, and Ward tells them they're probably just tired and they'll be fine after a few drinks. So they go to sit at their table…
…okay, I wasn't sure how conscious our original characters were throughout this, but this sudden comment of Laguna being cute obviously coming from Selphie, along with two other more generic lines ("Is this a dream?" "What's happening to me?") makes it pretty clear to me that Squall, Zell and Selphie are actively, consciously experiencing everything that's happening right now. Which is… Interesting. Let's go with interesting.
Ward and Kiros ask Laguna if he's going to 'go for it' tonight, meaning actually talk to Julia the pianist. Laguna tries to deflect and tell them he won't bother her while she's working, but as much as they are teasing him, his friends are trying to push im out of his shell and insist that they believe in him and he should talk to her. As they speak, a woman in a red dress descends the stairs, and begins to play a quite beautiful piano melody. Soon, Laguna takes his courage in hand and approaches her.
Okay, but, dude, maybe not literally while she's playing for the audience.
Before Laguna can approach her, though, his leg starts cramping up from stress, and he has to limp away lamely without a word while Squall internally comments about how sad he looks. Still, Ward and Kiros compliment him on getting this far instead of just mocking up for tripping on the fishing line; these three sound like real bros, which honestly only puts into highlights how much Squall/Zell/Selphie aren't. Even when they rag him, it's in good humour.
Kiros: "Good work, Laguna." Ward: "Mission successful!" Kiros: "Here, have a seat." Ward: "I didn't think you'd actually do it. Our popularity rating's gone up a point." Kiros: "Yeah, but you cut a pretty pitiful figure up there. I'd say you're about a -3 on the manliness scale." Laguna: "Say what you want!" (He sighs.) "Julia sure is pretty…"
As Laguna laments his misfortune, the two see something from off-screen, and excuse themselves with vague words; before he can realize why they're gone, the woman of the hour is here.
Laguna is struck speechless, but manages to (stammering the whole while) invite her to sit down with him.
Julia: "How's your leg?" Laguna: "L-Leg? Oh, this? Y-Yeah, it's fine. Happens all the time when I get nervous. (cough)" Julia: "Were you nervous?" Laguna: "Oh, yeah. I'm still kinda…" Julia: "You can relax. You don't have to be nervous around me." Laguna: "Oh, sorry." Julia: "Say… (Would you like to talk somewhere private? I have a room here…)" Laguna: (He stands up suddenly.) "I-In your room!?" Julia: "Well… (It's pretty hard to talk freely here. Everyone's listening in.)" Julia: "If you'd like to, please come by. I've been wanting to talk to you. You don't want to?" Laguna: "Of course I do!" Julia: "Then I'll go ahead and wait for you. Ask for my room at the front desk, ok?"
…
You know, it's kind of impressive to me how forward women are allowed to be in Final Fantasy games. Like, it's not that common in older media, especially Japanese media like this? If we go back to I and II we at least have individual dialogues of women making advances on others and the Lamia Queen's seduction attempt, III ends with Princess Sara confessing her feelings to the leading Warrior of Light, and in IV Rosa is actively trying to get Cecil to get over himself so she can jump his bones. It kinda stopped with V (who didn't really have a romantic arc) and VI (where Celes is more of a blushing damsel towards Locke and Terra is somewhere on the ace-aro spectrum), but in VII it's back with Aerith being very flirtatious and playful with Cloud and taking him on a date, and now in VIII we've had Quistis, the Blue Girl proposing Squall for a dance at the ball, and now Julia inviting Laguna to her room.
It's neat.
Once she's gone, Laguna kind of freaks out over what is happening to him and whether it's all a dream then psyches himself up to, while Squall's mental voice bemoans his overactive behavior and tendency to talk to himself.
Here's to hoping this 'bodyguard' officer doesn't actually have authority over Laguna.
Ward and Kiros teasingly encourage Laguna, who almost breaks down in nervous stammer trying to ask the receptionist for Julia's room, but she points him to the right place, and soon…
There's a comedy beat where Julia asks Laguna to take a seat and he tries the bed, then the chairs, then to leave the room entirely, until eventually he settles on standing up while talking while she sits down - the man is a bundle of nervousness, it's incredible.
Laguna: "It's just that I'm a big fan of yours, so I'm really kinda nervous, y'know?" Julia: "So that's why you come to hear me so often." Laguna: "You… You saw me?" Julia: "You were always smiling while listening, right?" Julia: (She looks away, brushing her hair.) "You have beautiful eyes. Though they look a bit scared right now." (She turns to him.) "Don't worry, I'm not going to pluck 'em and eat 'em. I just want to talk, gazing into those eyes. Would you like a drink? Wine perhaps?"
[Time passes; it's implied they've been talking for a while.] Laguna: "Yeah, I don't like fightin' too much. But you get to travel, y'know? Seeing new places and stuff. And it's fun, 'cause Kiros and Ward are always with me. Hey, we should all go out drinkin' sometime! Whaddya say?" Laguna: "And, uh… What was I talkin' about? Oh yeah, so I want to quit the army and become a journalist! So I can tell people 'bout all the things I've seen on my travels." Squall, mentally: "(He's already loosened up…) Laguna: "So, like, the other day, one of my articles made the reader's column. Pretty cool, huh? Yeah, that was way cool." Julia: "I'm happy for you."
[More time passes; Laguna is asleep on one of the beds, fully dressed in his body armor. Julia is seated.] Julia: "I'm sorry. I didn't know wine made you sleepy." (She gets up.) "You look adorable when you're asleep."
[Laguna stirs awake.] Laguna: "Argh… How'd I fall asleep?"
…man, there's a lot going on there. Let's put a pin in uh, all of that. Laguna and Julia have a sweet follow-up where he asks her to tell him about herself, about her dreams of the future, and she reveals that she would like to sing, even though her training is strictly as a pianist. Thanks to Laguna, however, she thinks she may have come up with her very first lyrics - "The many faces you've shown me, times when you were hurt, worried… Or felt pain deep inside you… Your smile, your face, your eyes…"
She approaches him, and they hold hands looking into each others' eyes. He tells her he must be dreaming, and she asks - it's not a dream, is it? But before anything more can happen, Kiros is banging at the door and saying they have urgent orders to meet by the Presidential Residence 'on the double.' Laguna and Julia promise each other to meet again, and we fade to black, and…
Man.
Okay, so first, let's get the cheeky bit out of the way - everyone who keeps wondering "Is this a dream?" in what is, literally, a dream sequence, ha ha, very funny, irony top score. I'm going to dismiss the possibility that this is an obnoxious hint as to it all actually being a 'dream' in the literal sense of not having happened, because that's not interesting.
With that said.
It really is a dream, isn't it? As in it's a fantasy. Like, think about it - the awkward soldier boy goes to the same hotel time and time again, looking at the pianist with star-struck eyes, only she notices him back and invites him to her room and they share a night of opening to one another and falling in love. It's the kind of scenario people who go to hotels to stare at pianists with starstruck eyes wish would happen to them.
But also put in the context of the whole game so far, holy shit. This whole scene is like a refutation of all of the issues we've seen so far. Laguna, Kiros and Ward are also soldiers for a morally questionable military power, but they are good friends who support one another and are able to communicate, and though Laguna struggles to approach the girl of his dreams they eventually talk, break the dam, immediately start sharing their life experiences and hopes and dreams (he wants to quit the army and become a journalist! What does Squall even want from life?).
Every issue Squall/Zell/Selphie have bonding as a group, every exchange between Squall and Quistis where he rejects her overtures to open up to someone, even the girl at the ball whose name he never even thought to ask, they're all set against Laguna just… Doing it. Just reaching out and actually bonding with other people.
So who the fuck is Laguna?
I have no idea. I remember the Laguna sequences (there will be more than one) from playing the game as a kid; I never got to where they explain what the fuck they're about. For twenty years, I've occasionally thought back to FF8 and wondered, what was that? Why those random dreams? Why of that guy in particular? And I never ended up looking up the answer because every time I thought about it I then told myself, "nah, you'll finish FF8 eventually and find out the natural way."
And goddammit, today is that day.
I mean, not today. The next few months. You know what I mean.
OR MAYBE TODAY
Wild speculation at the end of the post.
For now…
Squall: "Were we… all asleep?" Zell: "Maybe someone released some sleeping gas? There's lots of people who resent SeeD." Squall, mentally: (...Maybe. Better be careful.) Selphie: "Am I missing something? Anyone hurt?" Squall: "...I don't think so." Selphie: "What a relief! Everything's cool with me! Hee! I had such a nice dream!" Squall, mentally: (I had a dream, too. It wasn't nice though… I dreamt I was a moron…) Selphie: "But seriously, Sir Laguna was sooo cool!" Zell: "Hey! There was a Laguna in my dream, too! He's a Galbadian soldier, right?" Squall: "Laguna, Kiros, and Ward…" Zell: "Huh!? That's it!" Squall: "That's what…?" Selphie: "There's no way we can understand this… Let's just concentrate on our first mission!" Squall, mentally: (...I guess you're right.) Squall: "We'll put this incident on hold. I'll report it to the headmaster once we get back to Garden."
Incredible.
I wasn't sure what to make of the thought bubble indicating that our trio was directly witnessing the events of the dream, and I was wondering if they'd remember any of it, or perhaps leave it as half-mentioned events they don't realize connect, but no! Thanks to Selphie's remarkable powers of blunt information delivery with no filter, we can now attest that they all directly witnessed those events, remember them, and are now aware that they are most likely supernatural in nature! And honestly I have to both laugh and be impressed at the group going 'damn that was crazy, anyway,' because it's probably the correct move, they have no way of investigating the dream right now and going crazy over its meaning will only distract them from the mission, so short of instantly unjunctioning all their GFs I'm not sure what else they could do. Focus, and hope Headmaster Cid will be more reliable than he appears.
...
The mentions of GF junctioning causing 'memory loss' has come up before and it seems pretty obvious to draw the connection between that and that mystery girl who recognized Squall and 'Quisty' as some forgotten childhood friend, but could GFs cause memory connection? Could they in some way link minds and cause people to experience memories that aren't theirs? Perhaps memories of previous wielders of the same GFs? That seems the most natural explanation, considering that the events of the dream seem to have occurred in the past of 18 years ago.
…
I'm going to put some wild speculation behind a spoiler so people who also want to speculate blind can do it and only look at it if they want to.
18 years.
18 years is suspiciously close to 17, isn't it? Neither's a round number, either.
Laguna is Squall's dad, isn't he?
He's a handsome brown-haired guy who is mentioned to have 'beautiful eyes.' Squall is a handsome brown-haired guy. The events of this flashback occurred 18 years ago and featured Laguna's meeting with a woman he falls in love with. Squall is 17 years old, like would the child conceived during this timeframe. We haven't seen any sign of Squall's parents so far, or indeed signs that he has living parents. GFs cause memory loss.
It fits together a little too well to be coincidence, doesn't it?
Well. That was a lot.
And just as I say this, we arrive in Timber.
Oh good lord it's an entire city built in Art Nouveau style.
I'm going to die. I can't write more about this for today. I am just going to stare at Mucha paintings and luxuriate in Art Nouveau bliss.
Ward throwing his harpoon and then having to run over and pick it up, go back to his line and ready for the next throw is peak comedy that has stuck with me for all these years
It's kinda funny how pretty FF8 is. Typically, it takes quite a lot of work and extra effort to make something look dirty or ugly or worn, so it's something that happens not as a graphical jump, but by a skill increase.
You typically start off with clean lines and bright icons, and as you get better you add in more details and lived in stuff. It's not universal, art style trumps everything else, but it's how it works in a lot of series that gets more experience to go with their graphical power.
But because FF6 was at the tail end of that 'now lets show off how much grunge we can put into stuff' on the SNES, and FF7 is spiritually a continuation of that, FF7 is all dirty and grimy, even with the cartoonish character models running around. It contrasts that sometimes, like the Shinra building and villages, but even the rural villages are more lived in then idyllic.
But here, FF8 just looks... really really pretty. Even the war-torn battlescape of Dollet is just so gosh-damned pretty. All the towns have all these minute details that aren't dirt or sludge or broken machines, but intricate detailing and finely tuned decorative gears and pastels.
For such a clear and outright jump in detail and quality, the choice to make everything look so pretty and artistic is really interesting, but I can't deny I like it. I don't think another mainline FF ever went so far with the modern world that doesn't end up all glass towers and smokestacks with magic.
Diablos has a hidden mechanic. If we Draw-Cast Demi on him, it works as normal. But if we Draw-Stock Demi, then cast Demi from your stocked Magic… Then he 'rewards' us by casting Curaga on the character who cast it.
Which means Diablos is our most effective source of healing.
Now that you've actually beaten him all on your own it's safe to say that apparently another, even easier strat to beat Diabolos is to just Blind him. idk how you get access to it, somebody said how in the spoiler thread, but when the literal only move he has that can kill you is a physical attack, once he's Blind you're functionally immortal, and also helpfully in Crisis the whole fight so you can chunk him down with Limits. iirc he's resistant to Blind but that just means you need to roll the dice a little in the opening rounds.
We even have a private cabin sponsored by SeeD! This is the peak of luxury. Also, while Zell thinks the train is cool, nobody is enjoying that train as much as Selphie is. She has an entire song about trains she seemingly made up on the spot.
I'm starting to see what people are saying about Selphie maybe being a little ASD.
Squall beats a hasty retreat before Selphie can begin explaining Bionicle lore (he is also into Bionicle but he can never admit his powerlevel to another human being or he will combust)
…I have to admit, they all look really fucking cool.
Their weapons aside, though, there is something even weirder about this trio: they share Squall, Zell and Selphie's magic and GFs. Which could be a mere gameplay convenience, although it could also be… More.
Are XP and levels transferred as well? Laguna, Krios and Ward are all quite different levels in these screenshots, and I know you mentioned Selphie being particularly lower than Squall and Zell at only level 8, so now I'm wondering if xp gained in Laguna's flashbacks transfers back into the party afterward.
I have no idea. I remember the Laguna sequences (there will be more than one) from playing the game as a kid; I never got to where they explain what the fuck they're about. For twenty years, I've occasionally thought back to FF8 and wondered, what was that? Why those random dreams? Why of that guy in particular? And I never ended up looking up the answer because every time I thought about it I then told myself, "nah, you'll finish FF8 eventually and find out the natural way."
And goddammit, today is that day.
I mean, not today. The next few months. You know what I mean.
He's Squall's dad, right? No way this spaghetti-dropping flop-sweating pathetic little meow-meow wet cat of a man who fumbled his way into a bad bitch isn't Squall's dad, it's just too perfect.
Diablos has a hidden mechanic. If we Draw-Cast Demi on him, it works as normal. But if we Draw-Stock Demi, then cast Demi from your stocked Magic… Then he 'rewards' us by casting Curaga on the character who cast it.
I'm not sure whether I should parse this as 'my opponent has recognized the superiority of my magic, so I shall reward them' or as 'yes my disciple! draw on the darkness which is the true strength!' but I feel like Diablos is definitely doing one of those two.
Specifically, I'm looking for unique cards. One of them is found easily enough: A kid who is constantly running in the atrium has the MiniMog card, which has two very powerful sides (9s on top and bottom) and two very weak ones (2 and 3 on the left and right). He doesn't always play it, but eventually we get it - his other cards are weak.
Minimog is also useful for the card game outside its direct use as a card! For reasons you will...literally never figure out. The card game rules aren't too difficult, but the mechanics behind the rules are hideously complicated and manipulable. And there's a bunch of stuff to do in the whole minigame you cannot reasonably expect to figure out.
[More time passes; Laguna is asleep on one of the beds, fully dressed in his body armor. Julia is seated.] Julia: "I'm sorry. I didn't know wine made you sleepy." (She gets up.) "You look adorable when you're asleep."
[Laguna stirs awake.] Laguna: "Argh… How'd I fall asleep?"
So you got *this* version of this scene because you picked up the Timber Maniacs magazine in the Balamb hotel! If you'd ignored it or picked up the alternate one in the train station instead you'd have gotten a variation where he doesn't fall asleep and they talk slightly more instead. There are no clues anywhere in the game that this is the case. Such is FF8.
The sheer disdain Squall has for being forced to watch over the shoulder of Laguna gives me life. Like, Laguna is clearly the antihesis of everything Squall wants to be. He's lackadaisical, goofy, overemotional, and earnestly interested in forming human connections with everyone around him. Disgusting, I'm sure you'll agree.
