Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Finished: Final Fantasy Tactics]

The problem with that is that Cid made Kefka. Cid's crimes necessarily predate Kefka's madness.

Admittedly that just changes the threat vector from Kefka to the Emperor, but that doesn't jive with him saying he can talk the Emperor around.

Not to mention how interested he was in the readings he was getting when the Espers killed themselves to become Magicite.

I'm pretty sure that the best he could reasonably be, morally at least, is a "only humans are people" bigot who didn't particularly care what the Emperor did with his research so long as the funding continued, but who also cares about Celes.

---

One thing I find amusing about Cid as a recurring character is how the only thing that really remains the same across his versions is that he's a genius. In 4 he's a swarthy engineer, in 5 he's an elderly intellectual, and here in 6 he's Warcrimes Banana. You never really know what you're getting with him.

Fair. In general, I think the game is not great at tackling the issues of accountability of Empire characters. It designates General Leo, Cid and (to a lesser extent since she switched) Celes as the good Empire people, and then just kinda stops at that. Like, even if Leo doesn't personally commit war crimes, he still wages a war of aggression, apparently without even a fig leaf of a casus belli, but he's still presented as this aspirational figure. And Cid is intended to be sympathetic, if not entirely innocent, even though we just waded through the bones of his research.

Incidentally, both times the more overtly evil actions are performed by Kefka. He's kind of a narrative scapegoat for the Empire: he's the one doing war crimes, he's the one pushing drained espers down into the trash compactor, so that the hands of "good" Imperials can remain clean, even though, objectively, they're not.

How would you qualify 2 and 3? I feel like they're all very different as well, although I think it must be said that I think FFVI is the fist Cid to not be an unambiguously good guy, isn't he?

Cid the IV still contributed to Banon's war machine, though the moral calculus is, of course, complicated by their aggression being a recent thing caused by mind control. He's still probably the only character other than Cecil who can be held responsible for anything.

Cid the VI is the first Cid not to be connected to an airship, though, because Setzer is obviously a more worthy character for the role, as you no doubt agree.
 
Incidentally, both times the more overtly evil actions are performed by Kefka. He's kind of a narrative scapegoat for the Empire: he's the one doing war crimes, he's the one pushing drained espers down into the trash compactor, so that the hands of "good" Imperials can remain clean, even though, objectively, they're not.
Without wanting to get too overtly political in a thread about a videogame, it's not too surprising that Japanese developers might have... complicated views, let's say... about the ethics of were culpability resides under a fascist regime.

Cid the VI is the first Cid not to be connected to an airship, though, because Setzer is obviously a more worthy character for the role, as you no doubt agree.
This really made me laugh. :)
 
I don't have much to add at this juncture except for an observation on the Empire's theme: The Gestahl Empire

It actually was a YouTube comment that pointed this out but now I can't unhear it. When it does that cry/wail part (I'm sure @FunkyEntropy has a more technical name for it) it kind of sounds like a "please don't sue me Disney" version of the TIE fighter's flyby noise. As if we needed another Star Wars reference in this game. :V
Probably just part of a sample library that Square bought. You'll note that it's not a perfect match of the tie fighter noise even though it obviously sounds derived from it, so they used pro tools or some other editing software to modify the sample to what they wanted. Considering they haven't been sued over it I'm going to assume whatever they did it was enough to qualify as fair use.
 
Last edited:
How would you qualify 2 and 3? I feel like they're all very different as well, although I think it must be said that I think FFVI is the fist Cid to not be an unambiguously good guy, isn't he?
The limit of my exposure to Cid 2 and Cid 3 is this LP, so I'm not going to provide judgment of them.

I'll save discussion of the later Cids to when they appear in later games; I'll have words if Omi does FFT, let me tell you.
 
Admittedly that just changes the threat vector from Kefka to the Emperor, but that doesn't jive with him saying he can talk the Emperor around.
I guess that depends on how Cid sees the Emperor. Leo seems to think that if the Emperor only knew he would stop Kefka's evil, and I believe he assumes there's some Bigger Picture he just doesn't see about all these wars of aggression. If one were to assume the Emperor has "good intentions" but something is forcing his hand here, I guess you could assume it's possible to talk reason into the guy?

To dig back into the Star Wars well, the ANH novelization (IIRC) portrayed the Emperor as a distant, well-meaning-ish guy but there were forces (heh) larger than him that he couldn't control and the military/certain politicians had basically made him a puppet. Which latter material made bullshit but that was (apparently) the original intention. If we assume something similar at play here - nothing in the game itself but from the POV of those like Cid and Leo - we could see where they get their ideas from. The Emperor is not an Evil Genocidal Tyrant but some measure of court politics, popular pressure, whatever is forcing his hand but if they can just talk reason to him, maybe he can stand up to it and Do The Right Thing.

It's an effort doomed to fail of course, but points for trying I guess.

But yeah, the issue with Cid, Leo and even Celes is that they do kind of run into the Alderaan Problem - how do you keep on supporting the Empire after the evil horrors it has done? In Leo's case he might feel trapped by the oath he took, one he feels he cannot break, along with trying to convince himself of the aforementioned Bigger Picture where it all makes sense. Of course, how he squares that with Kefka running free and maintaining his position of power despite what happened at Doma, well... Again to go back to the court politics thing - not supported at all by the game but a fun bit of guesswork - perhaps he assumes the Emperor would sideline Kefka for such an atrocity...except Kefka managed to break the Siege of Doma and rode that into such a swell of popular support that the Emperor can't rebuke him. The Emperor "may" condemn what he did but the populace/Senate/whatever didn't care how it got done so for now he's untouchable.

Cid, given his role, is much harder to justify though I suppose the moral cowardice route is the best for him. And Celes at least had the decency to defect, but still rather late to avoid culpability for what happened to Maranda.
 
I guess that depends on how Cid sees the Emperor. Leo seems to think that if the Emperor only knew he would stop Kefka's evil, and I believe he assumes there's some Bigger Picture he just doesn't see about all these wars of aggression. If one were to assume the Emperor has "good intentions" but something is forcing his hand here, I guess you could assume it's possible to talk reason into the guy?

To dig back into the Star Wars well, the ANH novelization (IIRC) portrayed the Emperor as a distant, well-meaning-ish guy but there were forces (heh) larger than him that he couldn't control and the military/certain politicians had basically made him a puppet. Which latter material made bullshit but that was (apparently) the original intention. If we assume something similar at play here - nothing in the game itself but from the POV of those like Cid and Leo - we could see where they get their ideas from. The Emperor is not an Evil Genocidal Tyrant but some measure of court politics, popular pressure, whatever is forcing his hand but if they can just talk reason to him, maybe he can stand up to it and Do The Right Thing.

It's an effort doomed to fail of course, but points for trying I guess.
I mean, that outside view might have even been the case in Star Wars itself, and is true in real life. So very often, revolutionaries and protestors were certain that, if only the good King knew what was going on, they'd surely help out the little guy.

Unless the New Hope novelization specifically had Palpatine actually BE a well-meaning-ish guy, then I'd argue that it perfectly fits in his otherwise established character and the common view of many people across history: Surely the guy in charge can't be a bad guy, surely he's just uninformed or misinformed as to what's going on.

Notably, this explanation applies no matter what side of the coin Gestahl falls on; there are plenty of people both in fiction and real life that have just been ill informed or ignorant as to what was actually going on and let monstrous things happen under their nose, and plenty of people in fiction and real life who took advantage of the Good King, Evil Advisor trope to have the regime they controlled do awful things, even to its own people, and still have good PR all the while.
 
Related to the whole Cid/Celes/Leo discussion, can I just say how much I enjoy that part of the fun of revisiting these games now as an adult has been interesting, in how it changes perspectives for me on a lot of characters? Like at face value back in the day, I totally took Cid as well meaning rather than noticing how he's... kind of been experimenting on living creatures for almost 20 years at this point, or that Leo makes for a frankly terrible Camus archetype since basically all he's got is "but muh Empire" rather than an actual reason for why this "honorable" general doesn't just defect the way Celes did. Not to mention that even if Doma was too much, Celes was still complicit in an atrocity or three herself before said defection.

I don't know if the devs actually intended for things to be read that deeply or not, but it's still fun coming in with an adult mind and having a completely different interpretation of some characters. Can't wait to revisit FFVII that way, not to mention FFVIII and it's central premise being "Child Soldier Mercenary Academy".
 
Unless the New Hope novelization specifically had Palpatine actually BE a well-meaning-ish guy, then I'd argue that it perfectly fits in his otherwise established character and the common view of many people across history: Surely the guy in charge can't be a bad guy, surely he's just uninformed or misinformed as to what's going on.
Looking at my copy, in the Obi-Wan scenes:
  • The Old Republic did exist and the Clone Wars were a thing that Obi-Wan and Anakin (not named?) had fought in. Bail Organa is invoked but not explicitly mentioned as having been part of them though. (Chapter V, the scene where Artoo shows the message after Obi-Wan rescues Luke).
  • Darth Vader murdered Luke's father and helped "the later corrupt Emperors". Contrary to some takes, this does not imply at least 3 emperors; it can be taken as "later than the Republic". (also Chapter V)
  • Supposedly there were early mentions of assassinations and puppet Emperors, but I didn't see that in my skim just now.
  • I'm pretty sure the Emperor wasn't imagined to be a Force user yet.
It might also be useful to cite Splinter of the Mind's Eye for early views of the Emperor. I have that too but ... that's a weird book to read.
 
they didn't name the last boss "Number 128", but instead gave it the name "Inferno". With "Rahu" and "Ketu" as the names for its left and right claws, although I can't recall which is which.
That'd be because they're using the name of Inferno, who is a later boss that's a palette swap of Number 128 for some reason.

finalfantasy.fandom.com

Inferno (Final Fantasy VI)

Attacks with lightning-elemental attacks. If it has both arms, it can deliver a Delta Hit.Final Fantasy VI PlayStation Bestiary entry The Inferno is a boss in Final Fantasy VI. It is accompanied by its two arms, the Ketu and the Rahu. It is similar to Number 128 in both appearance and in that...
 
In regards to Leo being an honorable man fighting for an evil regime despite having full knowledge of its atrocities because Its My Home And I Must Fight For It, that's a whole trope (My Country Right or Wrong) that even gets believed in real life - its likely not actually applicable to Erwin Rommel, but it can certainly be found in the Rommel Myth that gets believed in anyway
 
Number 128's steal is a powerful sword for Cyan. The Kazegiri. It was a 50% chance of casting Wind Slash when you attack with it. in the Snes version, when the sword was called the Tempest, it was part of an equipment set know as Wind God Gau.

The steal for the right crane is the Debilitator. Gives a random weakness to an enemy when used by Edgar. If you didn't get it, you aren't getting another chance to get one in a while. Speaking of tools, the Drill is a solid option against bosses. It's less powerful then the chansaw, but it doesn't have the instant death version which will whiff against bosses.

This is where Wollie first learned about Level 5 Death.

"...Old games are weird. Alright, what levels are we at? 19, 17, 19, 20... That's some old game shit." (The 19s were about 100 exp away from levelling up.)
 
Last edited:
Number 128's steal is a powerful sword for Cyan. The Kazegiri. It was a 50% chance of casting Wind Slash when you attack with it. in the Snes version, when the sword was called the Tempest, it was part of an equipment set know as Wind God Gau.
Pretty sure that should be Wind God Cyan, for obvious reasons.
 
Ah, being patched out of later versions would explain my not being familiar with it - VI only made it to PAL territories with the PS1 port, and even then it took an extra three years compared to NTSC regions.
 
Going back a few posts to mention a few things I forgot about:

Next we have the Harvester. They have a rare steal which is worth getting - Dragoon Boots, which turn the attack command into Jump. The problem is, if you steal from them they will attempt to steal from you which is incredibly annoying. Sure you can get your stuff back (it's just gil, btw) if you kill them, but it's anxiety inducing.

This has an unintended amusing interaction with the Pixel Remasters, specifically the console version.

As we all know, the console version of the Pixel Remaster has the QoL features of boosting (or reducing, if you so choose) rewards from battle. If the Harvester steals from you, they steal a quantity of gil, which is then folded into the battle rewards if you defeat them before they run away.

So if you choose to boost gil, you can receive up to four times the amount of gil stolen from you. Given when they stole from me they took like 8k gil, that's 32k gil back, making a 24k gil profit.

Of course, this is a trivial oversight, because if the player really wants that much gil we can just keep the boost to 4x and start grinding like normal (with experience to 0x if we're really worried about levelling too much). It's just weirdly funny to think of these Harvesters as unintentional money-multiplying machines.

I think the Zozoites, when exiled to the margins, found what every exile to the margins in history finds - people were already living there. In this case, giants.

A potential wrinkle in this theory is every structure in Zozo is built to "human" scale, not giant scale. So that would necessarily imply if the Zozoites enslaved the Hill Gigas, they had to get the Gigas to build the city from the ground up, rather than taking over infrastructure that was already there. That would require collecting resources and building materials and metallurgy (for all the rusted girders), which seems like the result of a full planned expedition with state backing and support, rather than "group of exiles chased out of the city for being poor".

However, I can't think of a reasonable explanation for how Zozo came to be in the first place, infrastructurally. "Enslaved giants did the work" may be a good an explanation as any.

His title isn't even cool! 'Gambler' isn't an inherently cool thing, it's not like 'Wandering Swordsman' or 'Wandering Knight,' Wandering Gambler just sounds like you have a gambling addiction. Which he probably does, seeing as he operates an illicit flying casino!

Something I was pondering was how between Locke, Edgar, and Setzer, we have three of the very common archetypes for male leads in a certain sort of romance story (which I mostly encounter in shoujo media), from an older (90s) era. And all three archetypes are portrayed positively and desirable, rather than creepy.

The common points are that the three of them are dashing, suave, witty, physically capable, and have a blatant "hint" of danger. All three also share the role of taking the hypothetical female protagonist away from her life, in a way that doesn't require agency (and thus responsibility) on her part. Locke is the street rogue with a heart of gold, so he knows all the secret tricks and back alleys full of wonder in the female protagonist's own city. Edgar is literal royalty, so he can introduce the female protagonist to the glamourous and glittering world of the aristocracy, while being politically strong enough to protect her from any potential threats. And Setzer is the free spirit who's still urbane and sophisticated enough to show a lady a good time, while not being beholden to any authority other than his own.

So for Setzer, "Gambler" is a title that makes him desirable, because it means he wins consistently enough, usually through skill. The possibility of his losing is part of the "thrill of danger", as well as the increasingly higher stakes he might partake in, all of which he would face with assured confidence.

In more modern shoujo romance works, we can see the Locke archetype largely unchanged as the "street rogue", while the Edgar archetype is now often the "black-hearted prince". The Setzer archetype is "mysterious noble ambassador from a faraway country", who notably seldom wins the heart of the female protagonist, and is largely used as a romantic stalking horse.

In all these cases, the assumption in the narrative is the female protagonist wants to be taken away to another life, Cinderella style, but never actually expresses this wish, because doing so would, again, imply agency and thus responsibility. So inserting these archetypes into another story, like FFVI between Terra and Celes, makes them strangely out of place and creepy, while still calling upon the archetypes and their attendant narrative assumptions.

I have no idea if FFVI wrote the three men to deliberately adhere to the romance archetypes, or if it's just a coincidence and the writers just picked character types at random.
 
I mean, some people consider Terra the game's protagonist, including Dissidia. I disagree with that, but if we take it as the writers' intention, then the rest of the party being a male harem, thus adhering to the romance novel stereotypes (with Sabin being the "genuinely nice man with a strapping physique" to contrast the three different variants of scoundrels), would make a certain amount of sense.

Note that another common candidate for being the game's protagonist (Celes) would also neatly slot in the same framework.
 
Last edited:
Something I was reminded of when Omi talked about Celes teleporting away with Kefka.

At the beginning, with Wedge and Biggs? They weren't teleported. They were disintegrated. Don't think anyone ever mentioned it, and I don't think it ever gets brought back up.
 
Last edited:
This has an unintended amusing interaction with the Pixel Remasters, specifically the console version.

As we all know, the console version of the Pixel Remaster has the QoL features of boosting (or reducing, if you so choose) rewards from battle. If the Harvester steals from you, they steal a quantity of gil, which is then folded into the battle rewards if you defeat them before they run away.

So if you choose to boost gil, you can receive up to four times the amount of gil stolen from you. Given when they stole from me they took like 8k gil, that's 32k gil back, making a 24k gil profit.

Of course, this is a trivial oversight, because if the player really wants that much gil we can just keep the boost to 4x and start grinding like normal (with experience to 0x if we're really worried about levelling too much). It's just weirdly funny to think of these Harvesters as unintentional money-multiplying machines.
You can do the same thing in every version of FFVI, you just need to have Relm in the party and equip her with the Cat-ear Hood to double the Gil rewards.
 
@Omicron, now that you have the airship, there's a rare encounter that you should check out. In the northeast corner of the world map, there's a triangular island with no towns. Walk around a little, and you'll fight a special monster. It's invisible and can't be hurt by physical attacks, but use some magic to make it appear, and the battle will be over in no time.
 
@Omicron, now that you have the airship, there's a rare encounter that you should check out. In the northeast corner of the world map, there's a triangular island with no towns. Walk around a little, and you'll fight a special monster. It's invisible and can't be hurt by physical attacks, but use some magic to make it appear, and the battle will be over in no time.
Err... yeah no don't do that. That's not a winnable fight right now. Especially with an under leveled party.
 
In all seriousness, though, with the airship you should make a point of revisiting towns and looking around. I don't believe any of the important new things are on a timer, so to speak, but new resources are always more useful when you get them earlier rather than later.

Specific locations under the cut:

In Tzen you can buy an Esper from a guy in the woods at the back of town for 3000 gil, and in Jidoor you can go through the irritating auction house to (eventually) buy two more Espers for 10,000 and 20,000 gil respectively.
 
So I was catching up to @Omicron in the game, and...I kind of have to speak up a little in defense of Setzer (not a lot, just a little). I have more evidence that this is not, in fact, wife abduction but instead opera romcom shenanigans. Specifically, there's a small bit of dialogue that Omi neglected to mention, where the Impresario says something along the lines of, "Setzer will probably show up at the conclusion of Act I. He likes to make a big entrance."

Meaning, this is not the first time this has happened. This one line here means we must reexamine everything else in light of this startling revelation. Remember how quickly the audience adapted to the party and Ultros crashing the show? Hell, the orchestra had exciting music cued up and ready to go at a moments notice. Clearly everyone involved has come to expect this sort of thing and consider it part of the entertainment.

So when Setzer delivers that line that read super creepy, "Don't worry, I'll give you plenty of attention later" line? Text is bad at conveying tone. This is a line conveying the wink and nod of a couple engaging in roleplay. Indeed, we must imagine that line being delivered in a sultry tone of voice (a rose clenched betwixt teeth would not be remiss) while Maria goes, "oh you devlish rogue. I'm sure once you've made good on your escape you'll proceed to ravish me vigorously" or some other cheesy romance novel trash.

Basically: don't kink shame, people :V
 
Last edited:
Back
Top