To be fair it is mostly a joke, I mean you don't just tell people they smell over the internet, that's just weird.
Last edited:
Legend of the Ronin (Legend of the Five Rings)
- Status
Terenak
Wo ist die Käse?
[x] Sakiyarumei (咲夜琉) (Shining Life That Blooms at Night)
I really like the protecting wind and the hanging scroll idea (Which I think is more to commission or create a scroll ourselves)
But I really REALLY like the name @Kiriel came up with and his reasoning afterwards, it seems suitably japanese/chinese/taoist
also
[X] Kakita Toshiro - Kenjutsu
[X] Kakita Toshiro - Agility
I really like the protecting wind and the hanging scroll idea (Which I think is more to commission or create a scroll ourselves)
But I really REALLY like the name @Kiriel came up with and his reasoning afterwards, it seems suitably japanese/chinese/taoist
also
[X] Kakita Toshiro - Kenjutsu
[X] Kakita Toshiro - Agility
- Location
- Quezon City, Philippines
I cannot claim credit for the name since I just stole it from a game series.
I have quoted and bolded the things that make this band wagon problematic.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
So... I have a funny question. Kakita Toshiro is apparently better than we are at Iajutsu and Reflexes, and our Void is only 3. Also, he had a katana that wasnt' in need of repair. Why would he push us forward as his champion for a duel to the death rather than taking it himself?
Beyond that... discarding bandwagon, considering anew....
Looking at the training system, there is a *serious* payoff for improving Insight ranks, especially the jump from 1 to 2. We're at 144 right now, and rank 2 is just one circle away. Given that, our obvious choices are Vod (with Sister Cho), and Int (with Sister Aya). Between those, Void seems the obvious pick, for a variety of excellent reasons.
[x] Sakiyarumei (咲夜琉) (Shining Life That Blooms at Night)
[x] Sister Cho - Void
Now, I think this does pick out one of the problems with the current training system.
- There's no difference between the amount of effort necessary to go from 2->3 and the amount necessary to go from 6->7 (as long as you can get a trainer). This *can* be balanced in interesting ways if trainers are limited, and effort must be expended to gain their assistance, but it dramatically changes the decision-makign process... meanign that in general it is optimal to pick the most powerful thing that you can still get a trainer for.
- Stats give way more effectiveness bang for the training buck than stats do, as compared to the original system, and there was a bit of imbalance that direction in the original system already
- this is even more the case for insight. One action spent training a skill gets 1 insight. 4 actions spent training stats gets you a ring, and the associated 10 insight. The whole "pick up a 1-point skill or two for the insight boost" part of the leveling economy gets wiped out, and skills, by and large, become something you invest in when stats are simply not available (because you're simply too swole for your available trainers).
- In obvious ways, this is even *more* true for Void than it is for the other stats.
- Having your available training units be dependent on insight gives tremendous incentives to do whatever is necessary to raise Insight as fast as possible - in this case, buying up Void as far as your trainers will let you, filling out any rings you might have halfway (regardless of how well they fit your character - you'll make it up easily in the long run) and then buying both sides of whatever rings you can.
Now, that's not to say it's all bad. The idea of moving away from the standard exp system is an interesting one, and making it more narrative-driven by making it about trainers is kind of cool. That means, though, that it should be limited by narrative. First, trim down the people who are willing to train us significantly. Training takes a nontrivial investment of time and effort. The Kakitas might be willing to offer us training, but Kakita Reika is going to be busy making us a sword. She won't be available. Given that whole murderblender thing we just pulled, Kaiu Tanako should be royally sick of us at this point, rather than being willing to offer us instruction in anything. Instead, then, we have Toshirio, the two nuns, and the monk. For each of them, put together a package of what they'll train us in, and try to put together one package of trainable things for each. That means that we won't have every stat or every interesting skill as an option, but that's part of the point. This means that we have a strong in-character reason for trying to cultivate as many contacts as we possibly can, and get in their favor as far as we can, in the hopes of continuing our training - entirely suitable for a ronin. After all, the Kakita couple owes us, but one sword and one training session, and that will pretty much be paid off. If we want a training session from each of them, or if we want Toshiro to train us more than once, we'll have to come up with some other way to gain favor with them.
It also means that we can get packages of different sizes at different times. This time, it might be a stat point and a skill or two (it's a bit more bulk than initially planned for this slot, but there's less choice, and it lets you make the picks more interesting). Somewhere alter on, we might have a point where we're spending a few days somewhere, and we get to pick up a random skill point in one of three or four skills. Other stuff can go on teh list too - kata, advantages, or even training in schools, when we have the insight ranks to support it. Do we go for the school training now, or do we pick some other training and wait to try to get a school that suits us better?
Beyond that... discarding bandwagon, considering anew....
Looking at the training system, there is a *serious* payoff for improving Insight ranks, especially the jump from 1 to 2. We're at 144 right now, and rank 2 is just one circle away. Given that, our obvious choices are Vod (with Sister Cho), and Int (with Sister Aya). Between those, Void seems the obvious pick, for a variety of excellent reasons.
[x] Sakiyarumei (咲夜琉) (Shining Life That Blooms at Night)
[x] Sister Cho - Void
Now, I think this does pick out one of the problems with the current training system.
- There's no difference between the amount of effort necessary to go from 2->3 and the amount necessary to go from 6->7 (as long as you can get a trainer). This *can* be balanced in interesting ways if trainers are limited, and effort must be expended to gain their assistance, but it dramatically changes the decision-makign process... meanign that in general it is optimal to pick the most powerful thing that you can still get a trainer for.
- Stats give way more effectiveness bang for the training buck than stats do, as compared to the original system, and there was a bit of imbalance that direction in the original system already
- this is even more the case for insight. One action spent training a skill gets 1 insight. 4 actions spent training stats gets you a ring, and the associated 10 insight. The whole "pick up a 1-point skill or two for the insight boost" part of the leveling economy gets wiped out, and skills, by and large, become something you invest in when stats are simply not available (because you're simply too swole for your available trainers).
- In obvious ways, this is even *more* true for Void than it is for the other stats.
- Having your available training units be dependent on insight gives tremendous incentives to do whatever is necessary to raise Insight as fast as possible - in this case, buying up Void as far as your trainers will let you, filling out any rings you might have halfway (regardless of how well they fit your character - you'll make it up easily in the long run) and then buying both sides of whatever rings you can.
Now, that's not to say it's all bad. The idea of moving away from the standard exp system is an interesting one, and making it more narrative-driven by making it about trainers is kind of cool. That means, though, that it should be limited by narrative. First, trim down the people who are willing to train us significantly. Training takes a nontrivial investment of time and effort. The Kakitas might be willing to offer us training, but Kakita Reika is going to be busy making us a sword. She won't be available. Given that whole murderblender thing we just pulled, Kaiu Tanako should be royally sick of us at this point, rather than being willing to offer us instruction in anything. Instead, then, we have Toshirio, the two nuns, and the monk. For each of them, put together a package of what they'll train us in, and try to put together one package of trainable things for each. That means that we won't have every stat or every interesting skill as an option, but that's part of the point. This means that we have a strong in-character reason for trying to cultivate as many contacts as we possibly can, and get in their favor as far as we can, in the hopes of continuing our training - entirely suitable for a ronin. After all, the Kakita couple owes us, but one sword and one training session, and that will pretty much be paid off. If we want a training session from each of them, or if we want Toshiro to train us more than once, we'll have to come up with some other way to gain favor with them.
It also means that we can get packages of different sizes at different times. This time, it might be a stat point and a skill or two (it's a bit more bulk than initially planned for this slot, but there's less choice, and it lets you make the picks more interesting). Somewhere alter on, we might have a point where we're spending a few days somewhere, and we get to pick up a random skill point in one of three or four skills. Other stuff can go on teh list too - kata, advantages, or even training in schools, when we have the insight ranks to support it. Do we go for the school training now, or do we pick some other training and wait to try to get a school that suits us better?
To reach a new rank in a skill you must train with someone who is more skilled than that rank. (Ex to have someone train you to kyujutsu 3 you would need a trainer who had kyujutsu 4 or above and so on)
To reach a new rank in a trait you must spend time using that trait and growing it with a trainer. This costs two actions to do and is subject to the same restriction as above (ex. To learn Agility 4 you need to train with someone who has agility 5)
See this sentence right here? 100% unsustainable, you really haven't thought this through have you?
To reach a new rank in a trait you must spend time using that trait and growing it with a trainer. This costs two actions to do and is subject to the same restriction as above (ex. To learn Agility 4 you need to train with someone who has agility 5)
See this sentence right here? 100% unsustainable, you really haven't thought this through have you?
Last edited:
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
Varano, if you had bothered to read, he said that it was still subject to change as the character grows.
[x] Sakiyarumei (咲夜琉) (Shining Life That Blooms at Night)
[x] Sister Cho - Void
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Varano, please stop trolling. This is a quest. If you're stooping to personal attacks on the QM, you're doing it wrong.
@Sirrocco
Toshiro was dealing with two assholes from earlier making called shots at his arms and rendering them kind of not good.
(The dice rolled for damage on him were much higher than they were on you.)
You have a valid point particularly on things being easy to boost at this point. While I'm not going to change it for this update, I probably will incorporate the package idea later.
I offered as many options as I did for this one is because I intend for the next arc to be quite a bit longer, and in it if we were doing the normal xp system you would have the ability to save and get any of those traits up. However, it may be that I went to far the other way.
@Varano
If you can't be civil please leave my thread. I'm open to honest, thoughtful criticism.
That doesn't mean I'm here for you to abuse until I do what you want.
Toshiro was dealing with two assholes from earlier making called shots at his arms and rendering them kind of not good.
(The dice rolled for damage on him were much higher than they were on you.)
You have a valid point particularly on things being easy to boost at this point. While I'm not going to change it for this update, I probably will incorporate the package idea later.
I offered as many options as I did for this one is because I intend for the next arc to be quite a bit longer, and in it if we were doing the normal xp system you would have the ability to save and get any of those traits up. However, it may be that I went to far the other way.
@Varano
If you can't be civil please leave my thread. I'm open to honest, thoughtful criticism.
That doesn't mean I'm here for you to abuse until I do what you want.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
He's not saying that at all. He's say that you have to have someone better than you to train you. Not that you can't be as good as them. Once you hit their rank in skills, they can no longer train you and you go seek someone better.
How is this so hard to comprehend.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Beyond that, he's also explicitly said that it's possible to self-train - it's just inefficient. He's specifically said that he didn't include it here because it would be a trap option, and he's not in the business of giving out deliberate trap options. Seriously. Your complaints are ill-formed, they include extraneous ad hominem attacks, and you're not even reading the responses?
to learn agillity 4 you need to train with someone with agility 5, that's what it says.
if to learn agility 4 you had to train with someone with agility 4 then fine, but they CAN NOT train you up to their rank, you can not be as good as them that is impossible to maintain and silly.
so do you
Last edited:
Sirrocco
Pedantic
That doesn't even make sense.
- Location
- North Carolina
Ok Varano,
Like I said before, if you have a problem with the system, you don't have to play. People are trying to explain things to you, and you continue repeating the same point over and over. At this point, you're just sitting around making snide remarks and giving nonconstructive criticism. Please, do not ruin the game for the people who are playing and enjoying. This is not a place for you to just bash on other people whose ideas you don't agree with.
Like I said before, if you have a problem with the system, you don't have to play. People are trying to explain things to you, and you continue repeating the same point over and over. At this point, you're just sitting around making snide remarks and giving nonconstructive criticism. Please, do not ruin the game for the people who are playing and enjoying. This is not a place for you to just bash on other people whose ideas you don't agree with.
I could have sworn I said something earlier in response to you that makes this even more nonsensical
Bolded.
You can absolutely train yourself to be greater once you get to a certain level, it's just not as efficient and takes more work so it's not included because I don't add trap options.
Is it just that you hate reading ? Or do you just not count anything I say unless it's specifically editted into that second post? Because if so why are you even following this quest?
Seriously, thin ice, we've lost a page to you when it didn't have to be.
Bolded.
You can absolutely train yourself to be greater once you get to a certain level, it's just not as efficient and takes more work so it's not included because I don't add trap options.
Is it just that you hate reading ? Or do you just not count anything I say unless it's specifically editted into that second post? Because if so why are you even following this quest?
Seriously, thin ice, we've lost a page to you when it didn't have to be.
barenhart
Gender-sensitive. Female. Trans.
- Location
- Seattle, WA (Alki)
never mind, sorry to confuse the matter. just ignore it.
Alert: Enough of that
- Location
- Australia
enough of that
Please be aware that Varano is now on a 24 hour thread ban. Please cease that line of discussion.
furthermore
After a further review of the past two pages and your behaviour herein, @Varano, you are being infracted under Rule 4 for having disrupted the thread. It is one thing to discuss or criticise a mechanic. However, it is quite another to have a non-constructive and unhelpfully presented complaint lasting several posts past when you have been asked to drop the matter. In future, please be more mindful of your fellow posters.
Last edited:
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
[x] Sakiyarumei (咲夜琉) (Shining Life That Blooms at Night)
[x] Sister Cho - Void
To go back at this.
[x] Sister Cho - Void
To go back at this.
- Status