[X] Wild Card. Follow the armored man into the city...
Either that or a write in mix of Jacob and Thomas seems to be the best idea. Hold a speech and break them up if they don't listen. Too bad we have no horses. That'd make the whole looting way easier to handle.
By the way, does Worms have a city guard? We might be able to rally them, go to the Bishop and receive official orders to break up the looters.
[X] Support Brother Thomas. He suggests trying to separate the Pilgrims from their victims with light force, as words will not solve the issue now that it has advanced this far. Defending those from violence, the weak, is a virtue, and will be respected and rewarded by the Lord.
[X] Wild Card. Follow the armored man into the city...
Either that or a write in mix of Jacob and Thomas seems to be the best idea. Hold a speech and break them up if they don't listen. Too bad we have no horses. That'd make the whole looting way easier to handle.
By the way, does Worms have a city guard? We might be able to rally them, go to the Bishop and receive official orders to break up the looters.
This is the tally as of right now. I was going to close the votes and write up the results, but I'm actually going to do my lawn while the sun is up, so I figured I'd leave it open until I get back in about an hour or so.
Wild Card: l l l l l
Jacob: l l l l l l
Thomas: l
To answer your question Syn0, Worms does have a city guard, but they can't be fucked to help because as Citino mentioned, literally no one at this point likes Jews (which, while its a shame, is entirely historically accurate). If you were to encourage a write in, be it a mixture of Thomas and Jacobs plans, or trying to get the City Guard to keep the peace, or an even greater mixture of both, then I would most likely allow it (barring any sort of gamebreaking or unrealistic action obviously).
[X] Support Brother Jacob. Jacob suggests a non-violent approach, as the Pilgrims are Christians and we should not bring harm to our brothers. He wants to use words with our fellow Pilgrims to stop the violence.
-[X] Remind the looters that it's not the Jew that bars our way to the Holy Land, and that it is the risk of accidentally killing or harming fellow Christians will damn them. Better to leave Jew hunting to the people that are supposed to do it, who the church will absolve the bloody hands of.
Voting is closed. Brother Jacob's choice wins. I will work on the results now.
I'm going to let you guys know right now, that regardless of what you roll, (and note that your diplo is being checked here and your Piety will have no effect because its actually Pious to kill the unbelievers. This is a Crusade.) you've picked the historical route. The one that failed, and resulted in the campaign against the Jewish people of the Rhinelands.
Voting is closed. Brother Jacob's choice wins. I will work on the results now.
I'm going to let you guys know right now, that regardless of what you roll, (and note that your diplo is being checked here and your Piety will have no effect because its actually Pious to kill the unbelievers. This is a Crusade.) you've picked the historical route. The one that failed, and resulted in the campaign against the Jewish people of the Rhinelands.
Well, we might get lucky with the diplomacy check.
For those who don't know, historically the local bishop intervenes, and offers the Jews sanctuary in the church. A mob then breaks in and kills the gathered Jews. If we get lucky, we might be able to keep the mob out, but if we aren't, our men might join the mob and help kill them.
Well, we might get lucky with the diplomacy check.
For those who don't know, historically the local bishop intervenes, and offers the Jews sanctuary in the church. A mob then breaks in and kills the gathered Jews. If we get lucky, we might be able to keep the mob out, but if we aren't, our men might join the mob and help kill them.
I mean, it was already mentioned earlier what the historical fate of that option was, even before the vote closed. I just felt that being friendly was the least bad option there.
[X] Support Brother Jacob. Jacob suggests a non-violent approach, as the Pilgrims are Christians and we should not bring harm to our brothers. He wants to use words with our fellow Pilgrims to stop the violence.
-[X] Remind the looters that it's not the Jew that bars our way to the Holy Land, and that it is the risk of accidentally killing or harming fellow Christians will damn them. Better to leave Jew hunting to the people that are supposed to do it, who the church will absolve the bloody hands of.
Brother Jacob was the only real choice here. You can't condone pitting Christians against one another, that isn't what this Pilgrimage is about. Brother Thomas agrees, albeit hesitantly as he doubts the men engaged in these atrocities will easily stop what they are doing to hear the words of a peasant.
Relationship with Brother Jacob set to 5/10
Relationship with Brother Thomas set to 5/10
Brother Thomas relays the plans to the group of Pilgrims you have assembled. Some of them grumble about helping Jews, and one rambunctious man gets loud and belts that he'll have no part of this, and takes a small handful of men off into the city, no doubt to join the atrocities. You hope they don't do anything much. The Pilgrims march in to the city behind you. The Armored Man has long since disappeared into the small maze of buildings here. The first neighborhood you enter into the city from the south is, subsequently, the Jewish Ghetto. Lots of buildings are ruined and broken into, with small fires here and there. The Ghetto is cordoned off from the rest of the city, so there's no worry of any fire spreading (the Christians wouldn't burn their own city down, they're angered, but not stupid). The cobblestone and dirt streets are marked with blood and household waste, nothing was left upturned. Yet, there aren't that many pilgrims here. Yes, there are dead or dying bodies, but most of the violence has been concentrated at the center of the city. Your group continues on, following the noise.
The Original Cathedral of Worms, where the Bishop takes residence at the center of the city.
When you arrive at the center of town, you realize that the mob of violent pilgrims have assembled outside of the the Cathedral of Worms. The Bishop is crying out from one of the upper balconies for the violence to stop. It appears that most of the Jewish community to escape have fled into the Cathedral. The mob of Pilgrims are trying to break in. From a rough eyeball, your numbers and theirs are about similar. They have 150 Pilgrims, you have 120.
As you approach, a noble emerges from the crowd. He is clearly set apart from the others, wearing chainmail and a helm. A fancy sword is attached to his waist, a hilt engraved with precious stones. You can tell that he is obviously the one leading this crowd, and was most likely the man who riled them up. He knows why you are here, because you and your fellow pilgrims have not joined into the chaos.
"Welcome to Worms, fellow Christians." The noble started as he removed his helmet to introduce himself. "I am Count Emich of Flonheim. We do the Lord's work here today, as I assume you are. This is merely the first obstacle on our great pilgrimage. I hope you aren't here to inhibit our just and pious work." His lips spread into a grin as he spoke. You already got a bad vibe off of him.
Brother Thomas stepped forward first. You obviously couldn't, as you are a peasant and he a noble. You knew your place at the moment, and Emich didn't know of your role as a lieutenant of the group, let alone whether or not he'd respect it.
"Noble lord." Thomas began. "It is not the Jew that bars our way to the Holy Land, and that it is the risk of accidentally killing or harming fellow Christians will damn them. Better to leave Jew hunting to the people that are supposed to do it, who the church will absolve the bloody hands of."
Emich scoffed. "We are the hunters! His Holiness himself has granted us, his holy warriors, his pilgrims to the Holy Land, the jurisdiction to carry out the lords justice here! We are not doing anything but the Lord's work here. What's the difference between a Jew and a Saracen? The hat they wear on their head to show they are not a Christian. That is what I say."
[Diplomacy: 2 + 5/2 = 5. Failure]
It was clear Emich would not be turned by words. You only have two real options now.
[X] Fight Emich. No one wants to do this, but it's the only way to save the Jews. The mob is almost through the door.
[X] Join Emich. While we don't agree with him or his means, he is a Christian and we shouldn't be fighting. If we ally with him here, he could help us down the line. Having the support of a Noble would be very useful for the Pilgrim's Crusade this early, even before we've gotten to Cologne.
[X] Leave. There's nothing we can do. You don't want to fight your fellow Christians, and you don't want to join in their atrocities. Your last option is to leave, defeated, and wasting time on this detour to south western Germany.
[X] Write-in (note that if you choose this, figuring out a way to talk Emich out of this will most likely not work. You've already failed the diplomacy check, and it's evident he's about to get what he wants anyways, short of violence. You're going to have to be more creative if you want to find a "third way".
Hum, well he is adocating forcing entry into the church and shedding blood on Holy ground, we could try to turn the crowd against him, make him an agent of the devil here to draw the Devout into sinning?
Hum, well he is adocating forcing entry into the church and shedding blood on Holy ground, we could try to turn the crowd against him, make him an agent of the devil here to draw the Devout into sinning?
At the very least, he can't claim church support when the bishop is the one barring his way and calling for him to stop.
[X] We can't convince the mad noble. Let's strip him of his impromptu army, instead. "The bishop himself calls from the towers to end this violence! Do you believe the nobility, whose right over us is given by the church, over the church itself? Over these brothers of the faith who, even now, call for him to cease? Would you spill blood in a cathedral? This man would damn you to hell! Surrender and your souls may yet be spared, but if you fight and die here there will be no heavenly gates for you in the hereafter!"
-[X] Then Fight Emich, and whoever still stands with him.
At the very least, he can't claim church support when the bishop is the one barring his way and calling for him to stop.
[X] We can't convince the mad noble. Let's strip him of his impromptu army, instead. "The bishop himself calls from the towers to end this violence! Do you believe the nobility, whose right over us is given by the church, over the church itself? Over these brothers of the faith who, even now, call for him to cease? Would you spill blood in a cathedral? This man would damn you to hell! Surrender and your souls may yet be spared, but if you fight and die here there will be no heavenly gates for you in the hereafter!"
-[X] Then Fight Emich, and whoever still stands with him.
Rather than surrender, which present uss as ennemies, something like "wake up! Look away from the devil temptation and your soul may yet be spared!" Or something like that...
Also, I think it's important to mention that saying that is basically slandering a noble, and if we fail he will probably kill us, just in case some people forgot.
Rather than surrender, which present uss as ennemies, something like "wake up! Look away from the devil temptation and your soul may yet be spared!" Or something like that...
Also, I think it's important to mention that saying that is basically slandering a noble, and if we fail he will probably kill us, just in case some people forgot.
Fighting him is slander enough. All I'm aiming to do is literally put the fear of god into his underlings. With our piety, with our intrigue? Pretty solid odds, I'd say.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation here, but if there are a bunch of riled up men clawing at the doors of a church, and think they're doing Gods work, how are they even going to be able to listen to you let alone why. Even if you screamed at the top of your lungs, this is 150 men massed in front of a Cathedral. There is too much noise to address them all. You could still try, but like I said, your piety won't affect these rolls because they genuinely think that they're doing gods work.
If you wanted to use Intrigue, that's different, but from where I see it, you'd only be able to affect Emich (unless you manage to figure out something to do to the crowd, a distraction would work).
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation here, but if there are a bunch of riled up men clawing at the doors of a church, and think they're doing Gods work, how are they even going to be able to listen to you let alone why. Even if you screamed at the top of your lungs, this is 150 men massed in front of a Cathedral. There is too much noise to address them all. You could still try, but like I said, your piety won't affect these rolls because they genuinely think that they're doing gods work.
If you wanted to use Intrigue, that's different, but from where I see it, you'd only be able to affect Emich (unless you manage to figure out something to do to the crowd, a distraction would work).
Really? They wouldn't pay attention to a crowd of nearly the same number as them that is against what they are trying to do?
Seem a bit suicidal.
Ho well, let's use our brain.
[X] We can't convince the mad noble. Let's strip him of his impromptu army, instead. "The bishop himself calls from the towers to end this violence! Do you believe the nobility, whose right over us is given by the church, over the church itself? Over these brothers of the faith who, even now, call for him to cease? Would you spill blood in a cathedral? This man would damn you to hell! Surrender and your souls may yet be spared, but if you fight and die here there will be no heavenly gates for you in the hereafter!"
-[X] Then Fight Emich, and whoever still stands with him.
Really? They wouldn't pay attention to a crowd of nearly the same number as them that is against what they are trying to do?
Seem a bit suicidal.
Ho well, let's use our brain.
Well, you guys are pilgrims too, so they don't need to be weary of you (they think you're joining them to help), and they're focused on the Jews in the church. They're led by this noble, who is addressing you. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say a couple of them are looking at you and paying attention to the interaction between the leadership of your group (which are the Brothers of St. John, you're secondary to them) and Count Emich. Like I said, if you want to take a peaceful resolution, you need to get them to stop what their doing and pay attention to you so you can say some basic stuff to them. You'd need a distraction.
...maybe we are doing this wrong by trying to talk it out, we have high intrigue, so let's use it, I say we find a place in the town to set on fire, preferably somewhere where it won't spread to much.
Let's see if they still thinks about killings jews then.
[X] We can't convince the mad noble. Let's strip him of his impromptu army, instead. "The bishop himself calls from the towers to end this violence! Do you believe the nobility, whose right over us is given by the church, over the church itself? Over these brothers of the faith who, even now, call for him to cease? Would you spill blood in a cathedral? This man would damn you to hell! Surrender and your souls may yet be spared, but if you fight and die here there will be no heavenly gates for you in the hereafter!"
-[X] Then Fight Emich, and whoever still stands with him.
...maybe we are doing this wrong by trying to talk it out, we have high intrigue, so let's use it, I say we find a place in the town to set on fire, preferably somewhere where it won't spread to much.
Let's see if they still thinks about killings jews then.
If this write-in wins, I will roll a regular diplomacy check to see if they listen. I'm just saying your odds will be better if you go about this in a more crafty way to play to your strengths accurate to the situation.
If this write-in wins, I will roll a regular diplomacy check to see if they listen. I'm just saying your odds will be better if you go about this in a more crafty way to play to your strengths accurate to the situation.
I'm afraid I actually have to agree with kzil here. While I do feel that the one where we were trying to recruit people should have been more piety regardless of whether it was successful in the end, piety wouldn't really qualify here because these people DO feel they are doing the pious thing. Our job is to convince them to see things our way. Appealing to a pious nature wouldn't change that.
...maybe we are doing this wrong by trying to talk it out, we have high intrigue, so let's use it, I say we find a place in the town to set on fire, preferably somewhere where it won't spread to much.
Let's see if they still thinks about killings jews then.
[X] We can't convince the mad noble. Let's strip him of his impromptu army, instead. Gather up as many especially devout as we can (namely those who'd be most upset at the desecration of a church), and get through the press of bodies to the front, where the door is. You'll likely be escorting one of the Brothers there, so try coaching them again. "The bishop himself calls from the towers to end this violence! Do you believe the nobility, whose right over you is given by the church, over the church itself? Over these brothers of the faith who, even now, call for him to cease? Would you spill blood in a cathedral or upon it's very steps? The man you follow would damn you to hell! Lay down your arms and your souls may yet be spared, but if you fight here, even if you live, even if you win, there will be no heavenly gates for you in the hereafter!"
-[X] Then Fight Emich, and whoever still stands with him.
