Knight of Dandriss: Stone and Steel
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
That's okay. Half the time, neither can I.
Serious isn't quite the same as deadpan. Pan. Panpanpan. Paaaaaaaaaaan.
I'm hungry.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
[X] Indigo Hammer warriors
[X] Belter Agent
[X] Strike the pillar guards, forest combat
[X] Belter Agent
[X] Strike the pillar guards, forest combat
Same. My roommate moved out and I don't know how to cook.
Their entire force appears to be basically ultraheavy infantry, we don't have a lot of medium mechs available, and we haven't been able to bring our heavy mechs up to the front yet. They would seem to have the advantage in the rail lines where our stealth and maneuverability are nullified and force concentration reigns supreme. Their main force is likely also considerably larger than what we just faced, and what we just faced was dangerously close to parity despite preparation, surprise, and a massive -60 opening modifier due to the forest which won't apply in the tunnels. We also wouldn't be able to use the air support or artillery which would seem to be available now that their ships have withdrawn. The Indigo Hammer troops would seem to be all but useless.
Urban combat is a bit better, but still favors their heavy infantry. Striking the pillar guards means fighting in the forest where we are at the greatest advantage, but then what? Can we get sufficient firepower up those access stairs? I'm a little surprised that we're not fitting all the Jaegers out with missile launchers, so it might be possible. If it is it would mean that we could lock them down with a linear encirclement and hug them to death.
As much as I hate leaving that big army to rove freely, we've got a huge opportunity due to their unexpected delay and taking care of the last threat much faster than expected and their rear is exposed. They are completely dependent on their logistical base for everything from ammunition to food to possibly even air. We wouldn't even need to take Diamond Dome to cut the legs out from under their army, just hassle it enough to deny them easy resupply. It's hard to tell whether they would turn around and try to retake DD or just accept that the whole operation is a failure and throw themselves at the nearest target, but either way they'll fade quickly without support.
If they just hit too much of a roadblock and withdraw back to DD they become a permanent fixture incessantly threatening and harassing. We'll have to painfully dig them out of fortified positions at any cost before the next landing arrives to help them.
-or, break out the nukes, I suppose. That might be a worthwhile option here.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Possible--that being said, AN has been taking some pains to point out that while the Mantis tend to have excellent medium infantry technology, they lag behind in supercombattants and high tech. Considering that our Mechs are still derived from Not!STC designs, with our primary weapons technology being Not!STC derived--I don't think they decisively outclass us.
That being said, just because they're not horrifyingly strong on the ground and victory possible only because they're shit in The Forest (We're actually pretty close to parity in technology modifiers at least), doesn't mean we should start fights in areas where the Mantis are strong, given the importance of crushing their force. That means any encounter that gives the nod towards simple tactics should be anathema to us.
We want to stick to the forests or urban warfare--linear battles need to be avoided like the plague--our edge is our mobility and our ability to navigate The Forest, and letting our unique faction supercombattant units (Mechs, Domesticated Dandriss Lifeforms, and soforth) overcome their superior infantry technology.
That being said, swinging around and hitting Diamond Dome at this point is likely a poor plan when it allows them to bog us down and then redirect that advance right back into Diamond Dome--there's almost no-such thing as a quick fight in Dandriss Settlements, and every building is another god damn bunker. They don't need to be particularly clever to recognize this and dig in with a small garrison force.
And the best way of taking on a superior infantry column when they have a hard time reacting to surprises? (As we saw here, their cohesion started to fall the fuck apart once they lost the initative--and while the flanking attack could have been bad--they took too long to consolidate it and ended up getting wiped out in detail before they could have any strategic impact). Is to open up new fronts--hitting the pillar guards lets us flank the shit out of their primary thrust.
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[X] Strike the pillar guards, forest combat
[X] Indigo Hammer warriors
[X] Belter Agent
[X] Indigo Hammer warriors
[X] Belter Agent
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
[X] Her own troops
[X] Advocate for a strike into Diamond Dome while their forces are committed elsewhere
[X] Other Green Owl troops.
[X] Advocate for a strike into Diamond Dome while their forces are committed elsewhere
[X] Other Green Owl troops.
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
[X] Her own troops
[X] Advocate for a strike into Diamond Dome while their forces are committed elsewhere
[X] Other Green Owl troops.
[X] Advocate for a strike into Diamond Dome while their forces are committed elsewhere
[X] Other Green Owl troops.
I'm currently torn between going for the pillar guards and striking straight at Diamond Dome. My major concern with the pillar guards is that the reason to do that is to bring up forces to strike at them from behind, but it doesn't seem as if we'd be able to bring serious firepower up the stairwells and that's still only two narrow and fixed lines of engagement. It basically turns into moderately more advantageous form of just blocking their advance in a tunnel fight. I suppose the Belter and the Authority agents might be able to sneak in from the sides using the tunnels and wreak havoc, but would it be enough and anything other than a suicide mission? Short of tossing Mags in there I'm reluctant to bet on a small force not getting slaughtered. Of course, if it did work it would mean leaving nothing but unsupported Green Owl and Blackthorn infantry holding the far side since they wouldn't have heavy equipment and Indigo Hammer isn't suited for the enviroment.
Goddammit. Let's just pump the tunnel in front of them full of an explosive fuel-air mix and turn it into a giant adamantium cannon right around them. Hell, let's break out the nukes and see if we can throw them all the way back home.
Goddammit. Let's just pump the tunnel in front of them full of an explosive fuel-air mix and turn it into a giant adamantium cannon right around them. Hell, let's break out the nukes and see if we can throw them all the way back home.
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Yeah, they have about the same effectiveness as EM small arms against the Mantis power armour. Both need to hit a weak spot to kill or wound the Mantis. The only thing they do better is damaging morale and maybe clear buildings faster, but that's not worth spending the science influence on. Not when we can better use that to get a lab or proving grounds to contribute to reverse engineering Mantis equipment. Or even donate it so Green Owl gets orbital interceptors a little bit faster.
The darts are probably more effective against comaparatively lighter armoured targets and parts of the wild life. So getting them later when we generate more science influence should be worthwhile.
Darts are decent on them in,a combined arms approach I think. They do seem to be disoriented by the darts behavior and they make a good option for units with lighter arms like Jaegers who would need substantial volume of fire to get through the armor. We've observed that limb loss isn't disabling enough either, though ClF3 in a joint WOULD disable from everything inside being on fire.
So possibly useful in augmenting sharpshooters like Jaegers?
So possibly useful in augmenting sharpshooters like Jaegers?
- Location
- Australia
I was thinking that the acid would weaken the armour enough for EM rounds to be more effective, so long as they hit the same general area. So... Some kind of combined arms doctrine?
Mixed units and/or underslung CIF3 and/or even a combi-style weapon where one pull of the trigger send the CIF3 a split-second ahead of the EM round?
Again, it seems as if we already have satisfactory weapons for the job. These critters glow bright on IR and constantly emit active millimeter radar. Instead of putting more punch into the EM weapons, just fire a homing missile at them. It means fewer shots per a soldier, but they're not going down with repeated EM hits anyway, they're basically giant target beacons to seeker heads, and two or three Mantis killed per soldier from outside of LOS and beyond their retaliation range before rotating out for rearmament is a pretty good ratio. Since they don't have to expose themselves we can probably strap a few buses right onto the backs of industrial mechs or sides of roach rhinos and immediately press them into service as vertical-launch missile platforms.
Now, ClF3 missile warheads would certainly be interesting, but hardly necessary and probably more dangerous than they're worth.
Now, ClF3 missile warheads would certainly be interesting, but hardly necessary and probably more dangerous than they're worth.
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They shouldn't be more dangerous than the darts, since the ClF3 is synthesised in flight by enzyme analouges in a reaction started by the em field of the launcher. Though the problem with missiles is that either the launcher needs to make an em field powerful enough to start that reaction or the missle needs a sufficiently powerful electromagent. The former makes the launcher bulkier and the later eats into missile space. You'd also have to harden the missile so that it's electronics aren't destroyed. A dumbfire rocket would solve that problem at least.
Though the dart refinement seems to apply to all em weapons, not only the small arms. So our vehicle scale and artillery em weapons would fire ClF3 rounds as well. Not that they would be much of an improvement for them as well. AP rounds are made to go through armour heavier than what the Mantis wear and firing flechettes leads to enough hits in weak points, depending on circumstances on several Mantis. They might be better than HE rounds though, but even then if a Mantis doesn't panic it can fight on if it is engulfed by ClF3 fires.
- Location
- Australia
Hmm, the heat-seeking missile is a really good idea, but I think the reason everyone was confused by them pumping out radar in the forest was that there's so much scatter you can't pick out anything - wouldn't that mess up the targeting if we went that way?
Decim
On again, off again lurker.
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
As long as the missile doesn't have an active component, the trees shouldn't overly screw up its guidance system. Going with passive infrared seekers or wire guidance should make using precision ordinance viable in the hell of Dandriss's forest.
- Location
- Australia
Ah, yes, I meant that while IR sensors seemed good, doing the same for Radar might get pulled off-target by the immense amount of backscatter. Or maybe not, not quite sure how those ones work.
Home-on-jam is pretty simple. It's a lot more complicated to construct a coherent picture out of a reflected signal and pick out the reflection you want than it is to just point at the emitter. In conjunction with IR and perhaps some minor target recognition it should be an easy kill, especially with spotters. If I recall correctly, the missiles they were retroengineered from could use operator video guidance anyway.