- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't give money to crypto-fascists if I can help it. Hard pass.
Kingdom Come: Deliverance
- Thread starter Yonatan
- Start date
Well... hearing that stuff about the developers sure is a downer.
I mean, I spent the 60$ when I found that it was opening day after watching this YouTuber stream it. And that was after watching videos of it's development like a year or two ago. I remember categorizing that game in the same vein as Star Citizen back then.
Anyways, I am really enjoying the game. The first session I played lasted a full eight hours in which I was fully immersed in the story and the mechanics.
It really is a treat to start being shitty at everything, and then slowly getting better at the combat system and the rest of the mechanics. In a sense, as I get better at the game, so does Henry. And because of that the training and development of him into a medieval badass seems real, genuine, and earned.
That is just one of the things I really like about the game. To hear the news of the developer is... disheartening. Anyone got any link to that story they can share?
I mean, I spent the 60$ when I found that it was opening day after watching this YouTuber stream it. And that was after watching videos of it's development like a year or two ago. I remember categorizing that game in the same vein as Star Citizen back then.
Anyways, I am really enjoying the game. The first session I played lasted a full eight hours in which I was fully immersed in the story and the mechanics.
It really is a treat to start being shitty at everything, and then slowly getting better at the combat system and the rest of the mechanics. In a sense, as I get better at the game, so does Henry. And because of that the training and development of him into a medieval badass seems real, genuine, and earned.
That is just one of the things I really like about the game. To hear the news of the developer is... disheartening. Anyone got any link to that story they can share?
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Ritterin Sophia
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- A den of iniquity.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Here's a good one. 'What's Racist About Telling the Truth?' — When 'Historical Accuracy' is Used to Deny Agency | Robert W. Guthrie
Basically they make some pretty absolute statements and then try to defend them on "historical accuracy" that actually isn't, especially since the premise, a blacksmith's son becoming a knight, was so vanishingly rare historically that you may as well be writing the story about a person of color or a woman knight.
Basically they make some pretty absolute statements and then try to defend them on "historical accuracy" that actually isn't, especially since the premise, a blacksmith's son becoming a knight, was so vanishingly rare historically that you may as well be writing the story about a person of color or a woman knight.
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Well, that is pretty interesting. I do find myself agreeing with the article in many ways.
About the blacksnith's son becoming a knight:
I am putting this in a spoiler tag, since the game is barely out. Anyways, that is actually a very big plot point. Many characters in the game, even the ones that train you wonder exactly why they are training this peasant.
Many characters do express disbelief about Henry's eventual advancement. Some of them even express frustration if you do fuck up enough, and it is set to forshadow a plot twist sometime later.
Anyways, what I am trying to say, is that the social advancement Henry gets serves a narrative purpose.
Many characters do express disbelief about Henry's eventual advancement. Some of them even express frustration if you do fuck up enough, and it is set to forshadow a plot twist sometime later.
Anyways, what I am trying to say, is that the social advancement Henry gets serves a narrative purpose.
Anyways, thanks for providing the article. I still feel compelled to defend the game on it's story and merits. Though the issue of the developer and how he handled the inquiry really grates on my nerves.
Hykal94
Orange Estus Kitteh
- Location
- Firelink Shrine
So a review from a YouTuber that I have been following for a while.
TL;DW: It's good, believable stuff with quests that would be something I made up if I knew how to GM and good characters. Janky combat but not as bad as people have been saying about it. AI is dumb AF for ranged combat. Still buggy as all hell so you might want to wait for patches.
TL;DW: It's good, believable stuff with quests that would be something I made up if I knew how to GM and good characters. Janky combat but not as bad as people have been saying about it. AI is dumb AF for ranged combat. Still buggy as all hell so you might want to wait for patches.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
- Location
- SEA
I find it fun enough that I'd recommend people play. Now of course the issue is how to do so without giving money to an asshole. I certainly don't know anything about that, and I'm sure all of us law abiding internet denizens here don't either. Its unfortunate, but such is life that we can't acquire games without paying for them. C'est la vie 
Daniel Estacado
ZA WARUDO
I believe buying the game preowned from GameStop means that money doesn't go to the developer(unless it does then I don't know, maybe find some second hand store?).I find it fun enough that I'd recommend people play. Now of course the issue is how to do so without giving money to an asshole. I certainly don't know anything about that, and I'm sure all of us law abiding internet denizens here don't either. Its unfortunate, but such is life that we can't acquire games without paying for them. C'est la vie
Buying used games is p much without purpose unless you're a collector. The only reason to spend money on something is to compensate its creators, and buying used doesn't do that. Of course, in this case, good people SHOULDN'T give money to these creators... but there's also no reason to give it to GameStop.
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Ritterin Sophia
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- A den of iniquity.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah but at that point you may as well make the main character about a person of color or a female knight with how vanishingly rare those circumstances are, so the whole defense is after the fact. Just like how in BF1 Dice couldn't be assed to make a more appropriate changes to the shooting meta game to emphasize bolt-actions instead of rare or unavailable semi-automatics and automatics but couldn't give us playable female character models despite already having assets to work with in the game. The "historical accuracy" is being used as a dishonest means of deflecting from representing women or people of color, it's a political decision.
And it's not hard to figure out that political message with a buff in the game called "Alpha Male" for sleeping at a brothel
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I have no counterargument against the misrepresentation of people of color. That I do not disagree on.
I also agree with you that I do wish the could have had a Character creation system in the game. The fact that it doesn't, makes the story about an already established character with established familial history. Having the option of creating a character, I feel would force the game to change its story. One of the advantages of having a pre-determined character, is that the story is a more personal one overall. At least that was my impression before I heard about all this drama with the developer.
However when it comes to representation of women in the middle ages, I think I would have to disagree on that. Not because you can't play as them, but because I've seen at least three very prominent woman in the game in which you interact with. All three stood out to me while I was playing the game, and I feel each of them stood out to me because of their past and present actions, and how characters within the game treat and acknowledge said actions.
Like for example, there is this girl named Theresa in the tutorial of the game. You have the option to save her from some enemies in the beginning. Whether Henry helps her or not, she escapes them by grabbing a nearby dagger.
She later comes back about an hour to save you from certain death.
After she saves Henry, this gets acknowledged further in conversations and gets praise from people if you share that story.
The other woman Henry meets that caught my attention was Lady Stephanie of Talberg. This is a more noble representation of woman that I found myself in deep respect of. She shares her backstory with you if you are honest with her about your own. In her tale she shares that when she was married to the Lord of Talberg, a rival of her husband invaded and occupied Talberg keeping her new husband prisoner. Fortunately she was at Prague at the time and spent the next seven years trying and succeeding in rescuing her husband and her new home. She appealed to the king, and through a combination of favors and resourcefulness managed to secure a ransom for her husband and their castle.
And finally, the third I didn't met until about seven or eight hours in. Her name is Johanka, and she was one of Henry's neighbors in his starting town. After the tutorial and some time in the game, Henry can find her in Sasau (one of the cities) 's Monastery. Helping one of the local monks called Nicodemus tend to the sick and wounded from the various conflicts in the game. She comes across as a very blunt person and as someone who really cares about doing what she does. She's really mad that nobody really cares about the state of their little infirmary, but she works with what she has. Even Nicodemus admits that he does not know who he could have handled it without Johanka's help.
She later comes back about an hour to save you from certain death.
She stares down all the bandits that are currently beating Henry and calls on the cavalry in an awesome scene.
The other woman Henry meets that caught my attention was Lady Stephanie of Talberg. This is a more noble representation of woman that I found myself in deep respect of. She shares her backstory with you if you are honest with her about your own. In her tale she shares that when she was married to the Lord of Talberg, a rival of her husband invaded and occupied Talberg keeping her new husband prisoner. Fortunately she was at Prague at the time and spent the next seven years trying and succeeding in rescuing her husband and her new home. She appealed to the king, and through a combination of favors and resourcefulness managed to secure a ransom for her husband and their castle.
And finally, the third I didn't met until about seven or eight hours in. Her name is Johanka, and she was one of Henry's neighbors in his starting town. After the tutorial and some time in the game, Henry can find her in Sasau (one of the cities) 's Monastery. Helping one of the local monks called Nicodemus tend to the sick and wounded from the various conflicts in the game. She comes across as a very blunt person and as someone who really cares about doing what she does. She's really mad that nobody really cares about the state of their little infirmary, but she works with what she has. Even Nicodemus admits that he does not know who he could have handled it without Johanka's help.
Anyways, these are just my thoughts on the matter. The more I read about the developer, the less and less I like him. Who knows? Maybe I am wrong about all of this, but I do like how the game depicts its characters and subverts my expectations of them. There was this smug, noble, rich guy I hated with all my guts, who after a couple of quests and conversations with him, turned out to be one of my character's greatest friends.
Also, about the whole brothel thing. I am going to be honest, I laughed out loud when I saw it and its effects. The game could have done without it, I agree. If only to distance itself from its controversy.
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Ritterin Sophia
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- A den of iniquity.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think you're missing the forest for the trees here, because a peasant becoming an Imperial Knight in the HRE where birthright determined station was about as rare as a landed nobleman's daughter taking up arms and armor and doing the same, they both could happen but to choose to make the story about one and not the other and claim "historical accuracy" is not apolitical. They're sending a political message that if you're a hard man you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps and using "historical accuracy" and "established character" to justify it, it's a conscientious decision.
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Well, I've played for a bit, but I've never been knighted or ever even became an Imperial knight. The most Henry's been is just a guy in service of a very minor lord. A minor lord that had his Castle and village razed that is. I haven't finished the game yet, so I dunno how Henry finishes or how he ends up.
This here is a spoiler for the late game. Please don't read if you don't want to be spoiled, or if you plan to play the game/watch someone play the game/or plan to play the game in the future:
And the minor lord I am talking about is actually revealed to be your father and the reason why Henry is being given the opportunities he has been having. In a sense, it was matters concerning his birth that helped him. That and a lot of merit.
You can also buy it from a merchant for about 150 coin or so at most. Not that expensive after some hours in if you sell all the loot you get from your enemies.
They are also making a save on exit mechanic in an upcoming update. Said save file will be deleted upon loading to prevent save-scumming. There is also a very popular mod that allows quicksaving if you really do not like the mechanic. It dosen't prevent achievements from what I hear.
You also save the game automatically after sleeping for like an hour or so.
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While I admit I have yet to finish the game, I am more than halfway through it and have yet to actually become a knight. You are made a squire/man-at-arms, and join a lord's garrison. That's it. And even then people comment on your upwards social mobility.
And considering the context (a land in political instability and beset by war), is this seriously that big of a deal, on the same level as playing a female warrior (btw, they originally planned to add a female storyline back during the kickstarter, but the stretchgoal was not reached), or a person of color?
Yeah, this is the largest reason why I haven't bought it.
This is the kind of boneheaded decision that will inevitably be removed by a patch in the future though. Every review complaining about it will do that.
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, the historian writing the article that Sophia linked argued that it is certainly no less unrealistic given what we understand about the time period. The point being made is that some nobody blacksmith experiencing dramatic upward social mobility (let alone being involved so involved in this plot shaking a whole kingdom) would be deeply implausible, historically speaking. Yet it is accepted because it fits our ahistorical storytelling expectations.
I also really have to underline like: yes, in theory writing a defined character has quite a number of advantages in terms of writing a story... but the character they wrote is basically just some generic putz, and his motive is... seeking revenge for the burning of his starter town which is RPG Fill In The Blanks shit.
This isn't GERALT OF RIVIA, this is Dudeman Czechson, son of nobody with the personality of nothing.
This isn't GERALT OF RIVIA, this is Dudeman Czechson, son of nobody with the personality of nothing.
Well, speak for yourself, I liked him, and I was, still am, interested in his story.
Yes, he isn't a badass that can do a million and one things... and he needs to grow into his role a bit.
It's true he isn't a Geralt of the Witcher, or an Alloy of Horizon, but nevertheless I really like his story.
There is a part where you return to said starter town to bury your parents. I found it highly emotional to come back to the town that was just an hour before full with life. Finding the corpse of his old girlfriend and take her ring as a memento, and just seeing him almost unable to burry them with it was pretty emotional.
Anyways, I find this review to be a very fair review:
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You know that not all of them died right? Many of the denizens of the starter town survived and you meet them afterwards as part of the main story and sidequests. Some of them I even mentioned before earlier today.
Ritterin Sophia
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- A den of iniquity.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Again, you're missing the point, this wasn't an established character and it could've been whoever they wanted it to be, like they could've made the character the son of a landed noble or an unlanded noble from a landed noble's retinue. Because that would've been historically accurate. But they didn't, they used a generic fantasy starter character background and then claimed "historical accuracy" only when they felt it was convenient. This kind of undermines the selling point of the game.
This literally doesn't matter to the point we're attempting to get across.
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Ok, you are right on that. I agree, it could have been whomever they wanted, and they went with Henry the son of the blacksmith.
Do I wish they had done something else? I do. Thing is, I do like what they ended up doing, and I like the game despite it undermining its selling point, as I find the main story to be engaging.
Concerning the video, I think I understand now. Thanks for sharing.
I just want to say that I am sorry if I came across as trying to undermine criticism or shut down discussion on the game with in-universe reasoning, for that I apologize. I agree with what you are saying in the end. Concerning the misrepresentation of woman and people of color.
In the end, I just wanted to say that I really like the game, its story, and its mechanics, despite the author's selling point of the game. And that now I agree on both of your points now.
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De3ta
Mae
- Location
- The hellish pit known as New Jersey
This is the second time this month i've seen that Dan Olsen video posted on SV.
This has been a good month.
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm not attacking it (well, I'll attack a lot of it, quality uh, VARIES, with Tales), I'm underlining that KC is bereft is creativity. And hell, even within such a generic start as Destroyed Hometown, Berseria manages to make you feel more for Velvet in an hour than most will likely feel for Henry in the whole game.