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Kingdom Come: Deliverance

The Victorian said:
So I started watching an LP of this game, as I really have no compulsion to buy it myself.

Let me guess...Henry's parents end up snuffing it. I can just see the typical "doomed hometown" fantasy cliche already.

I'm also going to guess there's a gratuitous rape scene (or threat of rape) at some point to illustrate how "realistic" and "mature" the game is (and to show how eeeeevil the Cumans are, natch)

And I suppose there will probably be a scene where Henry visits a brothel (or two).
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Pretty much. The rape is preventable and not particularly gratuitous* compared to some competitors but oh is it still there.

*Implied to have happened offscreen, what we see is Theresa struggling with 3 cumans outside her home.
 
The Victorian said:
I'm also going to guess there's a gratuitous rape scene (or threat of rape) at some point to illustrate how "realistic" and "mature" the game is (and to show how eeeeevil the Cumans are, natch)

And I suppose there will probably be a scene where Henry visits a brothel (or two).
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There is actually worse: a scene where (if you go on the "right" path) you're provided with the option of fucking a horse, a pig or a chicken and in order to depict the -- ah -- mechanical issues involved, you drop into the LOCKPICKING MINIGAME. o_O:confused::o

The bit about bathhouses having prostitutes available is actually historically realistic, given there still exists rather extensive documentation of bath houses in the areas being dens of temptation, sin and ill-repute. But the game takes what could have been reasonable historical flavor and goes full parody by giving the player a perk option that gains them charisma speech for having sex with prostitutes. Like, I can't speak 100% on social attitudes of the time, but it breaks my suspension of disbelief to have people in that time and place -- on the very verge of their own Reformation -- think more highly of some yokel who just banged a prostitute.

Even setting aside that it most probably is opposite of the reaction the average person of that time and place would have would have ("Alpha Male" perk or no) like, how the fuck would anyone know?
 
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Ford Prefect said:
But on that note, how cool would it be to play some rando Hussite going around in a cart embarrassing knights with a gun?
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It even would make for a decently ambiguous story. The Hussites were definitely the attacked side, fighting forreligious and national freedom - but eventually they became just as cruel as the other side, invaded neighbouring territories, slaughtered people there, and split up six ways to Sundays.

But from what was said here it seems the writer guy doesn't really care for historical ambiguities...

stormbringer951 said:
The easy bets for sequels are the Battle of Grunwald and the Hussite Wars.
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The Battle of Tannenberg (Grunwald) is a completely different theatre and completely different story.
 
The funny thing is that apparently (at least according to some Wikipedia-ing) this whole thing could be turned on it's head on the other side of the Carpathian basin. When the House of Basarab (i.e. Vlad Dracul's ancestors) pushed Wallachia's independence apparently the culturally diffusion and intermingling of the border region was significant enough that they had a very Rurik thing going on where there is some controversy in pinning down if Basarab I was definitely Romanian or Cuman/Turkic related one way or another. Kingdom Come: Wallachia would be a Romanian fairy tale with the Cumans as the Germans, the Transylvanian Saxons as the Mysteriously Disappeared Minority(tm), and the western knights as the orcs of mount doom.
 
Apocal said:
I originally thought the game was going to be about that, given the name is Kingdom Come. As in, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth, as it is in heaven..."
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Susano said:
It even would make for a decently ambiguous story. The Hussites were definitely the attacked side, fighting forreligious and national freedom - but eventually they became just as cruel as the other side, invaded neighbouring territories, slaughtered people there, and split up six ways to Sundays.

But from what was said here it seems the writer guy doesn't really care for historical ambiguities...
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I'm actually now reminded that there's a manga, Otome Senso Divci Valka, about Sarka, the twelve year old survivor of a raid by Knights Hospitallers. By chance she encounters Jan Zizka, and because she fits the profile for his propaganda, he says 'hey do you want to join me and get revenge by shooting a bunch of guys with my new invention?'

I'm not a historian so I don't know how accurate it is, but it feels grounded and its depiction of Zizka as this irrepressible bastard who also kicks heaps of holy roman ass is enjoyable. Not exactly Christian Cameron, but not bad.
 
Rodyle said:
You're lying about a lot of things, and people have pointed out a lot of those lies, but I would like to zoom in on this particular lie.

People are not shitting on it just because there are no minorities in it, although for a game supposedly about historical accuracy this is an blatant error. People are shitting on it because the lead developer is an outspoken supporter of Nazis and rapists. People are shitting on it because it's a buggy piece of shit. People are shitting on it because its main storyline is utterly rote trash. People are shitting on it for a variety of crippling design decisions like the combat and save system.

People, in short, are shitting on it because it is a burning trash heap made by right wing morons, and its defenders are, themselves, right wing morons who insist that historical errors are actually accuracy, and when it is shown that no, they're errors, said right wing norons immediately insist that this game sipposuppo about accuracy was instead focused on the gameplay (the gameplay that is terrible).

E: also these right wing morons (tautology), when cornered, say things like "even if they portrayed minorities well, they'd just ask that WOMEN be treated well too!!!!!"
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Hey man, I like the game, and I agree on a lot of things you said, but come on! Seriously? You are going to lump all of us who like the game as right wing ?!

I agree the game has its flaws, and the lead developer is an asshole. But come on, you are taking this to a very far extreme.

Edit: I agree on the people shitting on it and they have valid points, and agree on most of them, after debating about them in this thread. It's just that I read your comment and got a bit personally offended as I did find stuff interesting in the game and had fun while playing it. It just makes me feel conflicted about enjoying a flawed game and stuff.

Sorry if I came about a bit harsh, your post was the first I read and got a bad reaction out of me.
 
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I have difficulty believing that people actually like this game. Not because of the story, but because even if the game wasn't basically broken it still controls like a clockwork turd. It'd be like hearing people enjoy writing with their non-dominate hand, or enjoy reading upside down, or always walk backwards. It's so wrong that it baffles me such people exist.
 
VolantRedX said:
I have difficulty believing that people actually like this game. Not because of the story, but because even if the game wasn't basically broken it still controls like a clockwork turd. It'd be like hearing people enjoy writing with their non-dominate hand, or enjoy reading upside down, or always walk backwards. It's so wrong that it baffles me such people exist.
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The 1v1 combat is fun, once you work out the trick to the archery so is that, the little crafting minigames for alchemy and at the grindstone, the towns and architecture are beautiful and oh...that map illumination. Basically everything I said earlier. The actually accurate bits.

There's also the fact it feels challenging sometimes in a way that say Skyrim just doesn't. It's actually really fun to knife a bandit, takes his clothes and sneak into their camp to poison them because charging in will get you killed and you have to save that schnapps...

Edit; Oh and the dice game. That's quite fun.
 
EliudFS1 said:
Hey man, I like the game, and I agree on a lot of things you said, but come on! Seriously? You are going to lump all of us who like the game as right wing ?!

I agree the game has its flaws, and the lead developer is an asshole. But come on, you are taking this to a very far extreme.

Edit: I agree on the people shitting on it and they have valid points, and agree on most of them, after debating about them in this thread. It's just that I read your comment and got a bit personally offended as I did find stuff interesting in the game and had fun while playing it. It just makes me feel conflicted about enjoying a flawed game and stuff.

Sorry if I came about a bit harsh, your post was the first I read and got a bad reaction out of me.
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1. Don't do the NotAllGamers thing in discussions about Nazi games.
2. Having said that, you'll note that the post was directed at specifically defenders of the game. If you're just enjoying the shitty game that's one thing (though you ARE giving money to Nazis if you actually bought it so, ya know). If, however, you feel that you must roll out and make barely legible stan posts to protect the game and it's developers, considering their crimes, then yes, I am going to be rather suspect of you. So far as I have seen, you are not doing this, and thus this is not directed at you.
 
The question of separating art from the artist can be a difficult one. It's not like the game has no qualities that recommend it, as Old Spice Guy notes. Moreover, I don't think we really know a great deal about the studio beyond Vavra. We know a great deal about Kingdom Come's director, but unless there's a pile of evidence elsewhere to suggest otherwise, it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that the whole studio is made up of fashy Czech nationalists.
 
I'm kind of wondering if this isn't supposed to be the prologue of a far larger thing since their early trailers had a lot of other things in it that would come after it...perhaps as expansion dlc that would be the next chapter(s) for it...I'm of the opinion that one of the major things is that the devs bit off more than they thought they were with the game and limited the scope due to the real world issues of making it work in a reasonable time, especially when you consider the revolving messes of things like Star Citizen's development and the people who aren't sure if it'll even get a full release...

Old Spice Guy said:
Jews are the same nationality though. Being Jewish makes them no less Czech. We have to make sure people know that; the way you phrased the above is very dangerous in that regard.

Edit; Jewish erasure is an extremely serious problem in general.
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Unfortunately, having Jews in it would likely lead to other accusations of racism...if you want to treat them the way most did at the time (Suspicion and scapegoat for other things) there would be some nasty things there. On top of that, the era would still have a pile of jewish expulsion being used as context for things alongside forced conversions.
 
SotF said:
Unfortunately, having Jews in it would likely lead to other accusations of racism...if you want to treat them the way most did at the time (Suspicion and scapegoat for other things) there would be some nasty things there.
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If that were the case, Twelve Years a Slave would've been heralded as the second coming of Birth of a Nation...
 
Apocal said:
If that were the case, Twelve Years a Slave would've been heralded as the second coming of Birth of a Nation...
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A lot of it depends upon to way it's done.

And it's harder to do when the POV character would likely be in the, then common, camp of "The Jews Murdered Jesus" and all of the other parts of it. A normal "christian" man of the time would likely have that view.

That it was probably helped along by nobles who would use that sort of excuse and some other horrible things (such as blood libel) in order to expel/slaughter the jews in order to clear their debts, or for various places to blame them for major problems.

And I really don't think that the dev team could have done so without making things a whole lot worse there.
 
SotF said:
A lot of it depends upon to way it's done.

And it's harder to do when the POV character would likely be in the, then common, camp of "The Jews Murdered Jesus" and all of the other parts of it. A normal "christian" man of the time would likely have that view.
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He would also probably not cavort with prostitutes, kill a double-digit number of men or act to protect a coven of devil worshiping women but hey... guess what the game expects you to do?

SotF said:
That it was probably helped along by nobles who would use that sort of excuse and some other horrible things (such as blood libel) in order to expel/slaughter the jews in order to clear their debts, or for various places to blame them for major problems.

And I really don't think that the dev team could have done so without making things a whole lot worse there.
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I don't believe there were progroms going on at that time.
 
Apocal said:
I don't believe there were progroms going on at that time.
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Not to the best of my knowledge. I've done a little research and it would seem that most Jews outside of Prague lived in small, more rural towns owned by the nobility (i.e. Rattay in game would be literally perfect) due to the increasing hostility of the Burghers in the Royal and Free Towns (The Margrave of Moravia began de jure expelling them from such towns in 1426, but the Jews started moving before this).

This whole thing is an issue I know their writers oculd do well. The Waldenisian quest is proof of that; it was quite fun and Sir Hanush was actually a pretty good representation of the actual lower nobility of the time. Actual pogroms seem to have not really been a thing in the area at the time. The peasantry may not have had a good opinion of Jews, but it's at this point that the game could have become so great because there is so much room for nuance and accuracy.
SotF said:
A lot of it depends upon to way it's done.

And it's harder to do when the POV character would likely be in the, then common, camp of "The Jews Murdered Jesus" and all of the other parts of it. A normal "christian" man of the time would likely have that view.

That it was probably helped along by nobles who would use that sort of excuse and some other horrible things (such as blood libel) in order to expel/slaughter the jews in order to clear their debts, or for various places to blame them for major problems.

And I really don't think that the dev team could have done so without making things a whole lot worse there.
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I think the above should be a decent refutation of your argument.
 
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