The rush for experimental technology I feel left a few things behind. It seemed to happen early in the game too, when the developers were unsure of how long the game would last or sell for, and lasted a bit even after a doujin community was made, since a fan work community for some franchises doesn't always lead to the original franchise and developers making money.
The fact that things like Tenzan and Ryusei were added so fast to this game early in its life with stats to symbolize a clear progression, along with other designs, does mean some historical designs like the B4Y1 Type 96 will likely never be added in, which is a little disappointing for me since I'd like a bit of historic trivia like that, along with them including more actually deployed designs. The could be made competitive with fictional Kai or Kai Ni upgrades.
Absolutely - I believe the devs have also said that they think putting Yamato and Musashi in the game so early was a mistake (and look at how long they're holding on to Shinano now). If I were in charge of remaking the game now I'd be looking focus the air game on the mid-tier planes - maybe something where you have a stockpile of each individual type, where the lower-grade stuff is much cheaper and easier to produce - so you use Zeros, Type 97s, and Type 99s for your daily scutwork, Suiseis and Tenzans for tougher maps in the course of ordinary business, and save the Reppuus and Ryuuseis for critical moments in events (and balance the game correspondingly.)
I doubt things like AD A1 Skyraiders will be added either anytime soon. Maybe eventually. Skyraiders were not even a blueprint for most of the war. With the first experimental test only about a month before the war ended.
The first prototypes also had massive amounts of flaws and teething issues until after the war a bad reputation as well, which would mean terrible stats.
Remember that the Skyraider not only is a late war design, it eventually dropped it's torpedo and dive bomber focus to focus on close air ground attack and missile support, which would not really compare to dedicated torpedo bombers in anti-ship from what I have heard. What would it even be as well? Classified as a torpedo bomber? Dive bomber? Missile carrier? Anti installation? AWACS role? It wouldn't fit unless it had some special category or the stat system had a big overhaul, or it could just be a dedicated dive bomber in this game to simplify and cut out any potential confusion.
I don't disagree that we're not likely to see one any time soon, especially considering that Sara arrived without even Hellcats or Avengers, much less the radar-equipped types I wanted to see with her and Enterprise (though I'll note that the community was saying the same thing about Allied ships in January - so anything could happen. 2016 ain't over yet ) That said, most of what you said about the Skyraider applies to the Ryuusei as well - multirole dive and torpedo bomber, teething troubles (which the in-game description notes re: the Ryuusei). I'd probably just expect to see it as a torpedo bomber, just like the Ryuusei - perhaps with some additional dive bombing stat.
The game already has designs that are prototype in it, some projects from actually earlier in the war dropped due to lack of funds and resources and devoted to more efficient designs, like the relatively high performance wooden plane designs designed to save resources of metal and fuel, and try to make the best out of limited crippled industry, infrastructure, resources and population. But I don't think any design is a so late design would be kept and fit for now, especially not one that lacks a single clear role.
Look at the Shinden Kai (not the Shiden Kai). 1945 design. Massive stats, given away for free near the starting year of the game before the idea of what the stat tree would be and other ideas had been shaken out as the developers were still more raw even after release, then essentially recalled and never given away again.
The only thing that really came close to the Shinden is fully trained max chevron the Type Zero Model 53 Iwamoto Squad, ace, skilled pilot, at max train level, and I heard that's only because the developers made a mistake coding the stats and raised the stats too high, and were too afraid to patch and revert it due to not wanting to anger or annoy their fans. At least that's what I heard from a translated magazine article interview scan, though that could be fabricated and faked.
Regardless, the developers need to be careful with these +15 stats and more they're throwing around. Make the gap too large, and the gap for new players to climb with all this power creep and stat creep might turn away some potential fans of the game. They've still got merchandise to sell too.
Right - I don't really expect to see any of the planes I mentioned in my previous post, partly for the simple reason that the devs aren't likely to want to overshadow the Japanese-ness of the game, partly because of power creep. I do expect to see Hellcats, Corsairs, Avengers, and Helldivers at some point in the future, and I expect them to be not quite as good as Reppuus, Suisei Mk 12As, and Ryuusei Kais. (I'm calling it right now - +8 AA stat for the Corsair.) My original point was just that the US planes we did get compare well enough to their contemporaries, which gives players no reason to use them when they're well-equipped with Japanese limited-service and prototype aircraft. I'm just saying that if we did see what were US limited-service and prototype aircraft, they'd be world-beaters in comparison.
That said, there is a point to be made about stats and reputation; I noted that the Dauntless's stats make sense given its relative performance compared to the Japanese dive bombers, but the game has a strong sense of stats based on "the legend" more than a rigorous statistical analysis, something like Aristotle's idea of telos; for example Maya, because she was converted into an "anti-aircraft" cruiser, has one of the highest AA stats and the most powerful AA cut-in in the game, despite historically having about half the AA firepower of a Cleveland - post-conversion. Meanwhile Iowa gets no special AA power besides her highest-in-game AA stat, and Yamato kai has an AA stat comparable to Maya despite having, again, twice the number of AA guns. So note that the Ju-87 also has high stats as a dive bomber, when its performance wasn't really that brilliant after its initial debut (they got hacked out of the skies over Britain) - but it has "the legend", it's the dive bomber. Which should imply that the Dauntless should be a heck of a lot better, seeing as it sank half the IJN. So that's the bias - rigorous stats for Americans, mythmaking for the Axis.
Absolutely - I believe the devs have also said that they think putting Yamato and Musashi in the game so early was a mistake (and look at how long they're holding on to Shinano now). If I were in charge of remaking the game now I'd be looking focus the air game on the mid-tier planes - maybe something where you have a stockpile of each individual type, where the lower-grade stuff is much cheaper and easier to produce - so you use Zeros, Type 97s, and Type 99s for your daily scutwork, Suiseis and Tenzans for tougher maps in the course of ordinary business, and save the Reppuus and Ryuuseis for critical moments in events (and balance the game correspondingly.)
I don't disagree that we're not likely to see one any time soon, especially considering that Sara arrived without even Hellcats or Avengers, much less the radar-equipped types I wanted to see with her and Enterprise (though I'll note that the community was saying the same thing about Allied ships in January - so anything could happen. 2016 ain't over yet ) That said, most of what you said about the Skyraider applies to the Ryuusei as well - multirole dive and torpedo bomber, teething troubles (which the in-game description notes re: the Ryuusei). I'd probably just expect to see it as a torpedo bomber, just like the Ryuusei - perhaps with some additional dive bombing stat.
Right - I don't really expect to see any of the planes I mentioned in my previous post, partly for the simple reason that the devs aren't likely to want to overshadow the Japanese-ness of the game, partly because of power creep. I do expect to see Hellcats, Corsairs, Avengers, and Helldivers at some point in the future, and I expect them to be not quite as good as Reppuus, Suisei Mk 12As, and Ryuusei Kais. (I'm calling it right now - +8 AA stat for the Corsair.) My original point was just that the US planes we did get compare well enough to their contemporaries, which gives players no reason to use them when they're well-equipped with Japanese limited-service and prototype aircraft. I'm just saying that if we did see what were US limited-service and prototype aircraft, they'd be world-beaters in comparison.
That said, there is a point to be made about stats and reputation; I noted that the Dauntless's stats make sense given its relative performance compared to the Japanese dive bombers, but the game has a strong sense of stats based on "the legend" more than a rigorous statistical analysis, something like Aristotle's idea of telos; for example Maya, because she was converted into an "anti-aircraft" cruiser, has one of the highest AA stats and the most powerful AA cut-in in the game, despite historically having about half the AA firepower of a Cleveland - post-conversion. Meanwhile Iowa gets no special AA power besides her highest-in-game AA stat, and Yamato kai has an AA stat comparable to Maya despite having, again, twice the number of AA guns. So note that the Ju-87 also has high stats as a dive bomber, when its performance wasn't really that brilliant after its initial debut (they got hacked out of the skies over Britain) - but it has "the legend", it's the dive bomber. Which should imply that the Dauntless should be a heck of a lot better, seeing as it sank half the IJN. So that's the bias - rigorous stats for Americans, mythmaking for the Axis.
That said, there is a point to be made about stats and reputation; I noted that the Dauntless's stats make sense given its relative performance compared to the Japanese dive bombers,
I know, my first post did compare the SBD Dauntless to the D3A Type 99 Bomber.
The SBD is clearly better then the stock Type 99 D3A, having better bombing, AA, FP, LOS, Accuracy, Evade, equal Combat Radius and ASW, but being more expensive in this game.
History posts I've read claim the D3A was outdated at the start of the war, and not replaced due to the Japanese needing to use their labor manpower, educated manpower, economy, industry, transport infrastructure, and other resources on more pressing matters. The D3A's older engine also wasn't as fuel efficient as some newer, even high performance ones, but newer ones also took more skilled labor and time and resources to build, usually.
Others say otherwise, considering the D3A good enough for the entire war.
I've seen some analysis also say the SBD was outdated as well. The SBD was made later. It also wasn't really replaced until the Helldiver, and many pilots preferred or were used to SBD compared to the Helldiver, even after the Helldiver had most of its initial issues worked out and even upgraded.
These planes also took a long time to replace, again due to Allied focus in other field, both civilian and military. With the idea and belief other things would be better use of their manpower, resources, land geography, and time.
It's hard to say. A lot of history is surrounded by popular culture mythos, especially an era like WW2 with so much pop culture media coverage, like entertainment focused documentary channels or games and films.
So note that the Ju-87 also has high stats as a dive bomber, when its performance wasn't really that brilliant after its initial debut (they got hacked out of the skies over Britain) - but it has "the legend", it's the dive bomber. Which should imply that the Dauntless should be a heck of a lot better, seeing as it sank half the IJN. So that's the bias - rigorous stats for Americans, mythmaking for the Axis.
I'm not sure about this. The Stuka dive bomber did get the most claimed damage, but that's only because it was the most made and cheapest to deploy craft.
How earned its reputation is seems very subjective from various documentary I've seen. I did see a post claiming that the British in WW2 claimed that German anti-ship technology was the best of war, including German land based naval air groups and one off wonder weapons.
Shinano I think is held because of how hard it would be to implement. The ship wasn't a dedicated carrier. It was also designed as a transport, to supply distant air fields. Just it was made after a lot of air fields had been lost.
And despite being an advanced design, might not have performed as well as its theoretical limit. Intelligence reports during the war were not clear since this carrier was very secret. Even the Japanese had many that didn't know about, many who did know about it died, suicide, or destroyed records and lied on post war interviews and changed their story about how much they knew about it. Post war diving analysis did get a bit more knowledge about it, but water damage made it hard to determine.
Some believe the carrier had a few design flaws, and rushed construction, that compromised her torpedo protection and anti-flooding damage control. A few sources also note and say it was unfinished and still being worked on when it was first deployed, and its initial crew was less experienced, less skilled then early war crews on average, and a little lazy and cocky due to hard crew losses the IJN had suffered.
Shinano had a lot of spare aircraft, many disassembled, in its transport hold, but couldn't really launch them easily. It's hanger space was a little inefficient in use of space due to being a rapid conversion. These craft were more meant for at sea resupply of other carriers and land bases. It also only had sufficient flight control centers to coordinate a few dozen aircraft.
With these spare aircraft counted though, it has a massive plane count, despite part of the displacement hanger space being compromised due to the rushed conversion. More then even post WW2 super carriers (though that's partially because WW2 aircraft are a lot smaller and easy to disassemble then jets).
On the SBD, it should be noted that carrier commanders fought tooth and nail to hold onto their SBDs. There is actually one battle where the relative performance of the current model SBD and the SB2C can be compared: At Philippine Sea, Only Enterprise and Lexington carried SBDs, while five other fleet carriers carried Helldivers into battle. The SBDs scored more hits with fewer proportional losses than the 'Beasts'.
So... was the Helldiver faster? Yes, about 40 mph top speed. Did it have a slightly better payload? Yes, about 250 lb more in max payload. A little more range too (about 50 miles) than the SBD-5s. Was the Helldiver the better handling and steadier aircraft? No.
@sapphirenebula - I think at this point we're both just throwing up a lot of context to our opinions to obscure how much we agree with each other
On the subject of Shinano, though, I wouldn't expect any of that to be an issue - the game already imagines an idealized IJN where all sorts of flaws and limitations are ignored, essentially for the sake of "wouldn't it be cool if...". (I mean, only Taihou and Shinano were large enough to operate the Ryuusei - but in game you can equip Houshou with them without penalty, who was too small even to operate Zeros.) I wouldn't be surprised to see her just put in as an armored carrier with a huge plane count; that's the easiest way out, and fits the "wouldn't it be cool if... Shinano just used all her capacity to operate planes like a normal carrier, and was great at it?" model. Or they could try to come up with some kind of support carrier mechanic, where Shinano can do something perhaps like Hayasui and replenish aircraft, or reduce losses (representing enhanced aircraft servicing shops able to put planes back into action that would otherwise have been written off). Or split the difference and have that just take up equipment slots, so you can use her either way.
That's why I'd suggest implementing HMS Unicorn before Shinano, because she was purpose built for much the same role. Then you can try out those mechanics and adjust them, or scrap them, so that players aren't disappointed when Shinano is finally released.
Okay, time for some cross-posting from SB! Don't sweat the unrelated stuff, because that helps to establish the context for some of my ideas.
Shinr said:
Another variation of the "Big E doens't show up, we have to compensate" idea, somehwat based on the very old comment of Enterprise believing that Yorktown is better than her:
The USN are really desperate to summon Enterprise, but no amount of summoning seems to work.
And then one day, they summoned the next best thing, Yorktown. But for the top brass, if it is not Enterprise, then it is a failure, so they spent time and resources to train Yorktown to pretend as her little big sister, acting as a stereotypical inspiring, larger that life G.I.Joe/Captain America leader of men-type that only works because it is "Big E" doing it. And if Enterprise herself shows up? Well, they can spin it as tear-jerking story of the elder sister sacrificing her own identity and the colossal task of standing in for her legendary sister, all for the greater good, and then pass the torch to Big E.
And it works. People are swallowing it up, morale goes through the roof, and the only ones who see through the ruse are the pre-war US carrier Shipgirls and E's full-time escorts during WW2, but are keeping quiet for the greater good.
And sometime later Enterprise herself shows up. And she is basically Rei Ayanami in personality: Very quiet, doesn't talk much and kind of hyper-focused on her duty to KILL, MAIM, BURN the Abyssals. The type to utterly ignore various political functions in favour of PURGING more Abyssals. And more critically, she is very much a follower instead of a leader. Nearly opposite of the manufactured personality Yorktown is sporting, and all attempts for Enterprise to be like that ended in utter failure.
And so any plans for Yorktown to "pass the torch" are scrapped, and instead they barely managed to convince Enterprise to pretend to be Yorktown.
Honestly, I dislike the idea of 'compensating for no Big E' to begin with. Also, at the time of Midway, Yorktownwas the most experienced carrier in combat operations in the entire American fleet. She had fought in and survived the first clash between carriers. She had raided various Japanese garrisons with Enterprise and Lexington at various points before Coral Sea as well. She was the only American carrier to conclusively find the Japanese fleet and have her entire strike group attack the Japanese (Enterprise's fighters never found the Japanese fleet due to running low on fuel). To take that a step further, her strike group was the only one to arrive as one cohesive unit. Her fighters and torpedo bombers proved to be the final, decisive distraction for the Japanese CAP.
The main strike against Yorktown is that every Japanese naval strike at Midway was aimed at her, and she still bore battle damage from Coral Sea. Even so, she still survived multiple bomb hits -including one that went down her smokestacks , which is nigh-godlike example of skill, and knocked out her boilers and power-, several torpedo hits from Hiryuu -again, including one that hit her power rooms and took out her power again-, took torpedo hits from I-168, and then had her back broken by the underwater detonations of Hammann's depth charges -which had also been sunk by I-168 while alongside the carrier and providing power to her repair teams while Yorktown was under tow. All of that, and she still lasted another night before gracefully going down like a lady.
Honestly, Yorktown has a 50-50 chance of coming back as either a shipgirl or an Abyssal. Why? Because of her remorse as the eldest sister. She was the carrier immediately shifted from the Atlantic to the Pacific before being thrown into action almost immediately following her arrival. Despite everything she did, she bore witness to Lexington erupting in fire from her damaged fuel lines. She was sunk before either of her younger sisters and just....
...She just couldn't do enough to protect her sisters.
So yeah, even if it's Big E you wanted, you should be damn happy if you got Yorktown instead. Big E just tried her best to live up to her older sister's legacy.
Anyway, I've been working on Abyssal Yorktown ideas, so here's some of my brainstorming:
Abyssal Yorktown was spared by the operation to sweep Midway of Abyssals because she hid.
She hid because she couldn't bare to face her reborn friends and family, because of her remorse at failing them.
She is joined by her faithful Abyssalized escort of Hammann along with the malignant Abyssal echoes of the sunken IJN ships from the original Battle of Midway as well as the remnants of the Abyssal forces that once controlled Midway Island.
Since Midway's retaking, it has been regularly visited by scientists of the whole spectrum due to its relative proximity to the safe haven of the Hawaiian Islands. They are there to study the normal aspects of the atoll's wildlife preserve aspect as well as the effects on the regions from being occupied by Abyssals.
Some of these scientists have seen a pale-skinned woman who alledgely drips blood down her back as she observes them from afar with luminous blue eyes despite her worn-out appearance and rigging. Scars cover her body, and gaping holes are present in her rigging. She merely watches them as she floats adrift in her remorse and despair, often uncaring of the outside world. Abyssal Yorktown only returns home to their anchorage because the feral Hammann gently bites her tattered skirt as the sun sets and tugs the carrier home.
Day in and day out, she wandered about the atoll, lost in the past and her remorse. She was unlike many other Abyssals in that she hated humanity as whole. She reserved much of that hate for the Japanese people.
They had been the ones who had sunk her mentor. They had been the ones to hurt her boys. They had been the ones who wounded her so deeply. They had been the ones to sink her.
Despite this, she respected those Japanese warriors. She had born witness to the scouring of the atoll and its surrounding waters of other Abyssals. She had seen the coalition of Pacific nations protecting each other as if they were family. She had been filled with shame and hid when she had seen her sisters working seamlessly with several Japanese carriers. There had also been rage and indignation at the sight of Enterprise working together with the one who had hurt her so grievously.
The Abyssal had not missed the searching, yearning looks that her younger sister had cast about the fleet. She had not missed the unarmed scoutplanes that had scoured the skies and seas for days after other Abyssals had been cleansed.
It had been during this time that she had found the twisted echoes of those same Japanese ships who had been sunk before herself in that long-ago war. She had screamed herself hoarse as she blindly beat them time and time again. So caught up in her rage and bloodlust, she had missed how her pale hair had been stained red after shattering her hat in yet another headbutt into the skull of the echoes. She missed how her eyes blazed with a fury unmatched by any other Abyssal she had met.
In time, her rage dwindled as her chest heaved, and her lungs burned for fresh air. She had been left laying on the ocean's surface unable to strike her foes down with her bare hands. It was then that her loyal escort came forward to lift her onto the feral destroyer's back. From this vantage point, she saw the Japanese echoes kneeling in supplication to her. It was then that those echoes had sworn to serve until her wrath was expended or their existances had reached the end of their usefulness to her.
Abyssal!Yorktown starts out as your standard Wo-class carrier, but she becomes something unique as she progresses.
Admiral Johnny Reigns said:
So Yorktown and the Abyssal versions of Car Div 1 and 2. Reminds me of the Eternity versions by Sheo.
So Midkagi, AC Kaga Hime, SorWo?, HirWo?, WO-rktown and Hammann...
Except the IJN CVs are literally Abyssal 'echoes' and do not look like Wo-classes at all for CarDiv2. CarDiv1 would look similar to their 'normal' Abyssal analogues, but they wouldn't look exactly like them. Also, you forgot a ship: the Mikuma was also sunk in the historical Battle of Midway.
Also, please no on the nicknames. Yorktown might have begun as a Wo-class, as I said for this idea, but she does not remain one after her confrontation with the IJN echoes.
Also, why does the group need a name? What made you think that it's a 'team?'
Yorktown is technically the group's leader, but she just doesn't care about anything. Humans back at Midway? So what? She only cares about her family, but only in the context that she's too shameful to go back. She'd need a major kick to get her to do anything if it's not Hammann bringing her home as the sun sets each day or getting her to eat. She rarely sleeps as her dreams are filled with her happy memories of times she spent with her family, friends, and crew, but she always wakes up crying as a result. She hates to show such weakness, so she instead lies awake, watching the stars, and wondering if she'll ever be worthy of coming home. Of seeing her family in the flesh and not through a scoutplane.
The IJN echoes are the most functional members of the group, but they are all without orders and thus stay at their 'anchorage' and make things look nice while keeping an eye out for anything threatening their 'port.'
The other Abyssal remnants from Midway Hime's forces are sorta like the echoes, except they take their orders from the meanest and cruelest member of the port: Hammann.
Hammann is half-destroyer shipgirl, a quarter-Abyssal, and a quarter-feral-wolfgirl. Her only concern is protecting Yorktown, especially from herself. She is sadly the most sane member of the group, but she has regressed too much to fully comprehend some things anymore. She began as a normal shipgirl who spontaneously summoned herself near the Wo-class Yorktown, recognized her carrier, and then refused to abandon her. Over time, the isolation and proximity corruption from being in Abyssal territory -despite being a shipgirl- infected her, resulting in a nice, neat girl being clothed now in her tattered outfit and salvaged Abyssal equipment. About the only concepts she understands are 'loyal' and 'trust,' but that's only because they are her bulwarks against her encroaching madness. It is only her force of will that has kept the actual Abyssals of the group under control after one battleship threatened Yorktown. The ensuing fight was a slaughter as Hammann leapt atop the battleship without warning and tore the Abyssal apart from her perch there.
EDIT: I'll post the 'Grimlock Hammann' stuff a bit later on. I'm doing some more proofreading for it.
EDIT2: Holy Hell, Twei, you don't waste time, do you?
EDIT3: Have some Nevada stuff too!
Maes said:
Abyssal Nevada is the only one who isn't deathly pale. She's sporting History's absolute worst fake tan. You really don't have to ask what caused her to be bitter enough to turn Abyssal. Or why she covers herself head-to-toe.
She'll forever love whoever figures out how the hell to wash that stuff off.
Either that or she wears the highest-visibility dress that she's practically strapped into like an old-styled ballgown/corset. Either way would be kinda miserable for her one way or another.
Harry Leferts said:
... What about the absolute most fake tan combined with that sort of dress?
Actually, the antics of the Sendai-class sisters might be a good way to get her out of her funk. I mean, the garish paintjob wouldn't occur until her final refit for the tests, so she would be the proud First Sister of the Standards until that last remodel. That is when she gets the whole overly-frilly outfit and such, because she's no longer a ship meant for war. She is a ship meant for research and Science. She comes equipped with all sorts of scientific devices in addition to her end-war refit equipment. Finally, Science can go on the high seas once more to without the need for large conventional ships to carry all of the equipment needed for observing and recording the effects of Abyssals on their surroundings.
Now, if only poor Nevada was actually willing to go through all of the classes and courses to bring her up to speed.
The story that you knew never you wanted: Research Battleship USS Nevada.
Okay, time for some cross-posting from SB! Don't sweat the unrelated stuff, because that helps to establish the context for some of my ideas.
Warning: Personal Bias=Yorktown is best.
Honestly, I dislike the idea of 'compensating for no Big E' to begin with. Also, at the time of Midway, Yorktownwas the most experienced carrier in combat operations in the entire American fleet. She had fought in and survived the first clash between carriers. She had raided various Japanese garrisons with Enterprise and Lexington at various points before Coral Sea as well. She was the only American carrier to conclusively find the Japanese fleet and have her entire strike group attack the Japanese (Enterprise's fighters never found the Japanese fleet due to running low on fuel). To take that a step further, her strike group was the only one to arrive as one cohesive unit. Her fighters and torpedo bombers proved to be the final, decisive distraction for the Japanese CAP.
The main strike against Yorktown is that every Japanese naval strike at Midway was aimed at her, and she still bore battle damage from Coral Sea. Even so, she still survived multiple bomb hits -including one that went down her smokestacks , which is nigh-godlike example of skill, and knocked out her boilers and power-, several torpedo hits from Hiryuu -again, including one that hit her power rooms and took out her power again-, took torpedo hits from I-168, and then had her back broken by the underwater detonations of Hammann's depth charges -which had also been sunk by I-168 while alongside the carrier and providing power to her repair teams while Yorktown was under tow. All of that, and she still lasted another night before gracefully going down like a lady.
Honestly, Yorktown has a 50-50 chance of coming back as either a shipgirl or an Abyssal. Why? Because of her remorse as the eldest sister. She was the carrier immediately shifted from the Atlantic to the Pacific before being thrown into action almost immediately following her arrival. Despite everything she did, she bore witness to Lexington erupting in fire from her damaged fuel lines. She was sunk before either of her younger sisters and just....
...She just couldn't do enough to protect her sisters.
So yeah, even if it's Big E you wanted, you should be damn happy if you got Yorktown instead. Big E just tried her best to live up to her older sister's legacy.
Anyway, I've been working on Abyssal Yorktown ideas, so here's some of my brainstorming:
Abyssal Yorktown was spared by the operation to sweep Midway of Abyssals because she hid.
She hid because she couldn't bare to face her reborn friends and family, because of her remorse at failing them.
She is joined by her faithful Abyssalized escort of Hammann along with the malignant Abyssal echoes of the sunken IJN ships from the original Battle of Midway as well as the remnants of the Abyssal forces that once controlled Midway Island.
Since Midway's retaking, it has been regularly visited by scientists of the whole spectrum due to its relative proximity to the safe haven of the Hawaiian Islands. They are there to study the normal aspects of the atoll's wildlife preserve aspect as well as the effects on the regions from being occupied by Abyssals.
Some of these scientists have seen a pale-skinned woman who alledgely drips blood down her back as she observes them from afar with luminous blue eyes despite her worn-out appearance and rigging. Scars cover her body, and gaping holes are present in her rigging. She merely watches them as she floats adrift in her remorse and despair, often uncaring of the outside world. Abyssal Yorktown only returns home to their anchorage because the feral Hammann gently bites her tattered skirt as the sun sets and tugs the carrier home.
Day in and day out, she wandered about the atoll, lost in the past and her remorse. She was unlike many other Abyssals in that she hated humanity as whole. She reserved much of that hate for the Japanese people.
They had been the ones who had sunk her mentor. They had been the ones to hurt her boys. They had been the ones who wounded her so deeply. They had been the ones to sink her.
Despite this, she respected those Japanese warriors. She had born witness to the scouring of the atoll and its surrounding waters of other Abyssals. She had seen the coalition of Pacific nations protecting each other as if they were family. She had been filled with shame and hid when she had seen her sisters working seamlessly with several Japanese carriers. There had also been rage and indignation at the sight of Enterprise working together with the one who had hurt her so grievously.
The Abyssal had not missed the searching, yearning looks that her younger sister had cast about the fleet. She had not missed the unarmed scoutplanes that had scoured the skies and seas for days after other Abyssals had been cleansed.
It had been during this time that she had found the twisted echoes of those same Japanese ships who had been sunk before herself in that long-ago war. She had screamed herself hoarse as she blindly beat them time and time again. So caught up in her rage and bloodlust, she had missed how her pale hair had been stained red after shattering her hat in yet another headbutt into the skull of the echoes. She missed how her eyes blazed with a fury unmatched by any other Abyssal she had met.
In time, her rage dwindled as her chest heaved, and her lungs burned for fresh air. She had been left laying on the ocean's surface unable to strike her foes down with her bare hands. It was then that her loyal escort came forward to lift her onto the feral destroyer's back. From this vantage point, she saw the Japanese echoes kneeling in supplication to her. It was then that those echoes had sworn to serve until her wrath was expended or their existances had reached the end of their usefulness to her.
Abyssal!Yorktown starts out as your standard Wo-class carrier, but she becomes something unique as she progresses.
Except the IJN CVs are literally Abyssal 'echoes' and do not look like Wo-classes at all for CarDiv2. CarDiv1 would look similar to their 'normal' Abyssal analogues, but they wouldn't look exactly like them. Also, you forgot a ship: the Mikuma was also sunk in the historical Battle of Midway.
Also, please no on the nicknames. Yorktown might have begun as a Wo-class, as I said for this idea, but she does not remain one after her confrontation with the IJN echoes.
Also, why does the group need a name? What made you think that it's a 'team?'
Yorktown is technically the group's leader, but she just doesn't care about anything. Humans back at Midway? So what? She only cares about her family, but only in the context that she's too shameful to go back. She'd need a major kick to get her to do anything if it's not Hammann bringing her home as the sun sets each day or getting her to eat. She rarely sleeps as her dreams are filled with her happy memories of times she spent with her family, friends, and crew, but she always wakes up crying as a result. She hates to show such weakness, so she instead lies awake, watching the stars, and wondering if she'll ever be worthy of coming home. Of seeing her family in the flesh and not through a scoutplane.
The IJN echoes are the most functional members of the group, but they are all without orders and thus stay at their 'anchorage' and make things look nice while keeping an eye out for anything threatening their 'port.'
The other Abyssal remnants from Midway Hime's forces are sorta like the echoes, except they take their orders from the meanest and cruelest member of the port: Hammann.
Hammann is half-destroyer shipgirl, a quarter-Abyssal, and a quarter-feral-wolfgirl. Her only concern is protecting Yorktown, especially from herself. She is sadly the most sane member of the group, but she has regressed too much to fully comprehend some things anymore. She began as a normal shipgirl who spontaneously summoned herself near the Wo-class Yorktown, recognized her carrier, and then refused to abandon her. Over time, the isolation and proximity corruption from being in Abyssal territory -despite being a shipgirl- infected her, resulting in a nice, neat girl being clothed now in her tattered outfit and salvaged Abyssal equipment. About the only concepts she understands are 'loyal' and 'trust,' but that's only because they are her bulwarks against her encroaching madness. It is only her force of will that has kept the actual Abyssals of the group under control after one battleship threatened Yorktown. The ensuing fight was a slaughter as Hammann leapt atop the battleship without warning and tore the Abyssal apart from her perch there.
EDIT: I'll post the 'Grimlock Hammann' stuff a bit later on. I'm doing some more proofreading for it.
EDIT2: Holy Hell, Twei, you don't waste time, do you?
EDIT3: Have some Nevada stuff too!
Either that or she wears the highest-visibility dress that she's practically strapped into like an old-styled ballgown/corset. Either way would be kinda miserable for her one way or another.
That's a crime against poor Nevada.
Actually, the antics of the Sendai-class sisters might be a good way to get her out of her funk. I mean, the garish paintjob wouldn't occur until her final refit for the tests, so she would be the proud First Sister of the Standards until that last remodel. That is when she gets the whole overly-frilly outfit and such, because she's no longer a ship meant for war. She is a ship meant for research and Science. She comes equipped with all sorts of scientific devices in addition to her end-war refit equipment. Finally, Science can go on the high seas once more to without the need for large conventional ships to carry all of the equipment needed for observing and recording the effects of Abyssals on their surroundings.
Now, if only poor Nevada was actually willing to go through all of the classes and courses to bring her up to speed.
The story that you knew never you wanted: Research Battleship USS Nevada.
Wonderful piece and well thought out too. Just a few comments:
Of the big 5 US prewar carriers, Yorktown was indeed the most skilled. Enterprise was simply the 'lucky' one. Saratoga was fairly skilled but her luck tended to be that weird luck that seems bad but keeps worse luck from happening. Lexington was skilled but rolled a natural '1' at Coral Sea. (Seriously, damage that she was overcoming but all for naught as a single spark from a piece of equipment that should have been secured killed her). Hornet was simply unprepared and unlucky.
Enterprise's VF-6 squadron DID find the Japanese fleet! Their problem was that they accidentally latched on to Torpedo 8 and followed them in (Torpedo 8 was not even aware Fighting Six was there) VF-6 lost sight of the TBDs as they went in but as they still thought this was Torpedo 6, they were not overly concerned: There was a coded signal that was supposed to alert the orbiting Wildcats to come in. Naturally they never got a signal from Torpedo 8. And then Torpedo 6 actually arrived and Fighting 6 found themselves running low on fuel and had to abort. (The coded signal: "Come on down Jim" was never sent as it was only between the XO of VT-6 and the CO of VF-6 and the XO of Torpedo 6 appears to have been the first TBD of that squadron shot down.)
USS Hammann actually has a double whammy affecting her: Hammann was Lexington's plane guard up until the latter's demise at Coral Sea. So it could be that ONLY the return of Lady Lex herself could break through to both Hammann and Yorktown....
AIUI, there is a scrapper's in the in-game kanmusu base, right? Now, what if somewhere in-fic it was a disguised smeltery instead? One that could take in ore (bauxite) and put out metal (aluminium)? And produce small lots of alloys?
More generally, I'm of the opinion that you are more likely to get ship-girls with something to prove or unfinished business then success stories. This means Enterprise is likely to be one of the last ships summoned, since she already won one war, retired, and passed down her legacy. Most of the other highly decorated ships are probably in the same boat.
Yes this does mean that the focus of the story would probably be on less notable ships, and I view that as a benefit.
Sadly I have no time to work on it at the moment, and it won't be 6-8 months before I do. (It's more likely to be rebooted in a different form than continued outright, but we will see then).
Though since the subject seems to be Abyssals US CV, in that quest, abyssal Sara was to be one of the major and dangerous leader of the abyssal forces... The circumstances behind her sinking having left her slightly unhinged and hateful, but also very aware of the destructive power humanity can unleash...
Not someone you want to be dedicated to the annihilation of humanity...
Sadly I have no time to work on it at the moment, and it won't be 6-8 months before I do. (It's more likely to be rebooted in a different form than continued outright, but we will see then).
Though since the subject seems to be Abyssals US CV, in that quest, abyssal Sara was to be one of the major and dangerous leader of the abyssal forces... The circumstances behind her sinking having left her slightly unhinged and hateful, but also very aware of the destructive power humanity can unleash...
Not someone you want to be dedicated to the annihilation of humanity...
And the contrast is Abyssal!Yorktown very much does not care when it comes to leading the destruction of humanity. She only actively hates the Japanese, but she still possesses a great respect for their navy and has seen shipgirls in action.
Also, Grimlock Hammann repost after dinner with family.
EDIT: REPOSTING NOW!
WARNING: SOME OF THIS CONTENT INCLUDES GRAPHIC VIOLENCE
Hammann had been doing her noon patrol about the atoll's lagoon when she spotted their castaway addition huddled up and hiding near the shore. Suspicion ran though her feral mind. Something was happening. Was there a threat to Yorktown?
One of the light cruisers spotted her staring at them and waved her over. Good. Fleet should be trusting. It should be loyal to itself. No Admirals or Abyssals flagships needed. Just Yorktown. She had been given this second chance to protect the carrier again after all.
The group was speaking quickly and quietly amongst itself as she neared. She noticed that smaller groups. The wraiths of those sunk so long in that old war in her final battle nodded respectfully to her in stoic silence. They knew their place. They had been beaten twice by Yorktown and knew that fighting again would mean a final death from her. The quartet of light cruisers were joined by the array of bestial destroyer who shrank submissively from her gaze as they should. They were Omegas, and Hammann was Beta to Yorktown's Alpha.
The trio of heavy cruisers were joined by the pair of light carriers and stared defiantly back at her. They were respectful but only just enough. They did not respect her strength. They did respect her position though which meant that they would challenge for her place if they were not shown their places in the fleet.
The three battleships stood apart from each other. Such disunity was worrying to Hammann for their primary surface strength to be at odds with one another. One stood near the light cruisers and destroyers. The second stood near the heavy cruisers and light carriers. The third drifted near their subdued carriers. Despite the third's proximity to them, it did not seem willing on the part of the carriers as they slowly drifted away from the battleship.
These things worried Hammann. Her lupine nose smelled the hostility between the ships, though it was muted enough that she could tell that they would not come to blows. That was good. Little sense in reducing their forces over pointless things. Her wary saw the disgust and distaste that the second and third battleships directed towards her charge as the carrier drifted about the atoll. Inwardly, Hammann sighed at the prospect of once more dragging Yorktown back to their primitive port and docks.
Still, her inward exhaustion did nothing to dissaude her outward wariness even as she held her posture neutral as she kept her armament retracted beyond her clawed hands. She was careful to smile without showing any of her teeth, especially her fanged canines. She held her hed up proudly but was careful to show respect to all of the newcomers in equal measure to show lack of favorites. Once more, her gaze swept across the gathering as her wolf-like furred ears dissected every variance in sound from small shifts and movements as waves softly washed ashore in background.
Finally, her eyes came to rest on the third battleship. "So," her voice rumbled deep and feminine despite her younger appearance to the battleship, "What talking about?"
The battleship ran a clawed through her own blackened tresses indifferently. "We were discussing change and having a difference of opinions." She smirked down at the shorter feral destroyer.
"Change." Hammann repeated back. An unfamiliar word for her. She could not recall change beyond when these newcomers had been discovered by and followed Yorktown back to their port. Did the battleship mean to widen their patrols and rally more Abyssals to their fleet and grow their group into several? Did she conspire to separate Hammann from her carrier by making her lead one of these new groups? She blinked as a distant, buried portion of her soul screamed its vehement hatred for growing the power of Abyssal forces and the insanity of having a shipgirl lead Abyssals. She only paid enough heed to that voice to note its wisdom in her not being able to lead group. It meant that she could remain with her carrier, and this was good.
The battleship tittered. "Yes, change indeed. We have come to a consensus-" At Hammann's blank stare, she sighed. "-We agreed that a change in command was needed."
One of Hammann's ears flattened against her skull as the other perked up fully. "Command change? Yorky not command then. Who command then?"
The battleship gestured to her broad chest with a flourish. "Why none other than this battleship."
Hammann nodded absently at the battleship as deep thoughts ran through her mind for the first time in months.She narrowed her eyes and dropped her voice. "Then, what happen to Command Carrier? What happen to Yorky?"
The battleship's laughter thundered like her broadside as she held her clawed hands to her mouth and belly. "Why, Command Carrier would be relieved of command."
Something about the battleship's posture twinged Hammann's protective instincts as well as the increased uneasiness of the four fleet carriers still trying to discreetly edge away from her. They did not agree but were too wary of the battleship's firepower. The screen ships were those most at unease as they were huddled up closely together. It was the heavy cruisers and light carriers that worried Hammann. They were the ones who nodded along with the battleship with grins on their malevolent faces. This was a challenge to her Alpha. Such challenges rarely ended without bloodshed. "So," she rumbled, "What happen to former Command Carrier?"
The battleships drummed the claws of her right hand upon her chin in contemplation. "This was the difference of opinion. I believe," she paused here to trace her eyes across the group in obvious display of intimidation, especially to lesser pale-haired battleships, "That the best option is to return former command carrier to the Abyss before recalling her back without her worthlessness. Perhaps then carrier would be worthy of command."
Hammann's muscles seized up. Return Yorky to Abyss? Recalling Yorky? The corners of her mouth slowly rose up her cheeks to expose her smiling teeth held together in obvious joy -so long as one did not look at her taut legs- as she lowered her head in apparent deference to the battleship's plan. "So." The rumble of her voice this time carried an undertone of warning, unnoticeable to all who had not known her for long. Behind the black-haired battleship, the two-toned Hiryuu's eyes widened slightly before the carrier nodded to Hammann and ceased drifting away along with the other carriers. "How relieve command command?"
The mature battleship reached down to ruffle the soft brown hair and ears of the smaller destroyer. "Why this one would sink command carrier during return at sundown."
Hammann's world turned red at the insinuation of her leading her charge, Yorky, into an ambush on purpose. "Sink....Command Carrier?"
The battleship patted her on the head. "Yes, and all Destroyer needs to do is bring Command Carrier back as you do every sundown. Unless..." She trailed off before grinning conspiratorily at Hammann. "Do you wish to carry out the plan now?
Hammann whispered silently to herself as the fleet carriers suddenly surged away from the confrontation as the others focused on the destroyer.
The battleship frowned. "What was that?" She cupped a clawed hand around an ear and leaned down to put her ear before Hammann's rasping mouth.
"...No Sink...Sink...instead." A mantra that was indecipherable despite her proximity to the destroyer's voice.
The battleship let out an annoyed snort. "Speak up you damned nitwit. The entire plan to sink Command Carrier and replace with this battleship hinges on useless destroyer who can't speak right!"
Blood-redeyes snapped at the battleship's voice as the silent mantra became an echoing howl. "YOU NO SINK YORKY!" The destroyer roared as her claws suddenly buried themselves into the shoulders of the battleship and lifted the feral destroyer into the air above the capital ship. "HAMMANN SINK YOU!"
As her roar ended, Hammann pivoted about before stabbing her feet's hull covers into the back of the battleship. Black ichor spurted and flowed from the sudden wounds even as the battleship struggled past the sudden outbreak of pain to summon her rigging.
First to appear were the worthless main turrets as their target was far too close for use. Hammann exploited this by wrapping her arms about the battleship's slim neck and squeezing with desperate might. She fought not for herself but for Yorky who had endured too much pain already. Hammann would not allow anyone to hurt Yorky.
The battleship gasped as the rest of her rigging slowed formed about her, allowing her to call upon the prodigious strength of her hull. "If you will not aid this cause, then destroyer will sink with command carrier!" She screamed threats of destruction at the destroyer's deaf ears even as the destroyer's arms groaned and screamed from the sudden strain.
Destroyers were not meant to do battle with battleships at any range, especially without the use of torpedoes. Such a duel could only end in death for the destroyer. Hammann did not care for such things. She only cared for positioning and leverage. As the battleship pulled Hammann's helpless arms forward in a prelude to throwing the pest off of her back and into a range where her cannons could obilterate the destroyer, Hammann was slammed into the battleship's back in an attempt to daze or stun her as the black hair concealed the battleship's head pitching backwards to collide with the destroyer's skull.
Instead, it gave Hammann the opening she had needed. There had been no way for her to get so close to the battleship's throat if the battleship had known her intentions. As it was, her teethy smile became a bared snarl which became a ravenous maw of fangs as Hammann dislocated her own right shoulder to gain the leverage necessary to sink her fangs into the exposed neck. As her prey bucked underneath her in the sudden realization of its danger, Hammann buried her fangs into the arteries lining her prey's windpipe before locking her fangs around fleshy side of the windpipe. From there, it was a simple matter of ripping that windpipe out of her prey's throat. Reflexively, she swallowed the fleshy windpipe and delighted in the sweet sensation of filling her eternally-empty stomach with a new, delicious taste.
As the Abyssals stared in horror at the gurgling battleship and the proud feral destroyer, they noticed the sudden sounds of buzzing about them. Looking up, their eyes widened in shock at the sight of dozens of planes whirling above them, all clearly laden with strike loads. Looking at the quartet of carriers, they saw their heavy cruiser escort waiting confidently with her full broadside armed and torpedoes primed to launch.
As Hammann began to feast upon the dying battleship, growing and stretching in new ways, the Abyssals realized that Change had come. Great and terrible Change had appeared before them in its primal fury.They knelt in supplication to their clear deputy commander as the former destroyer finished her meal and shifting.
As she rose, her brown hair had grown mixed with black strands and white tips. Formerly just above her shoulders, it now stretched down to the middle of her back. This was a significantly change as well, as the destroyer had previously only barely reached five feet in height with her rigging on. She had gained over a foot of height, mostly in her long, powerful legs and her bared midrift due to her partially tearing out of her clothes.
This was mitigated by the stained clothes of her fallen prey that writhed and shift about her in a reflection of their new master. Soon, a hybrid of her tattered sporty outfit was combined with the elegant dress of the battleship. Her skirt was long enough to be graceful while the slits up the sides revealing her mended shorts underneath enabled her freedom of movement to continue. During the shifting, her arm had relocated itself before briefly being covered by a frilly dress sleeve before molding itself to her arm in a skin-tight sleeve extension of her undershirt and and a tough, practical glove with padding across the knuckles while leaving her clawed fingers exposed.
The Changed Hammann rolled her shoulders back and felt her whole body stretch and unlimber with a cacophony of popping and groaning noises as the rest of her body and bones settled at last into their new positions. With a pleased, closed smile, the former destroyer opened her red-rimmed blue eyes and smiled at the sight of her new primary turrets mounted to her extended hull while her torpedo mounts remained affixed to their old places on her legs.
"Feels good." Her newly-husky voice rasped with pleasure and contentment seeping out from her words. "Go take nap now and rest belly." She directed a meaningful glance at the trusted-enough screening ships. "Keep watch over Comm-Yorky. Keep watch on Yorky. Wake if she try go too far."
With the fearful nods of the light cruiser Abyssals, Hammann sailed back to their 'port' to take a well-deserved nap.
Hours later, when Hammann came to fetch her carrier to bring her home, Yorktown faded out of her ever-present haze to look at her faithful escort in confusion. A lump developed in the carrier's throat as she took in the sight of the proud escort. "Hammann," she finally got out. "Have you changed your hair?"
The former destroyer smiled warmly at the sign of her carrier being aware of her surroundings for the first time in months. "Yes," she said warmly. "Yes, Hammann has."
A sole tear ran down Yorktown's face. What had her faithful escort given up to be with her? Certainly her own family had been left behind by Hammann. Slowly, her quivering arms wrapped around the surprised Hammann's shoulders. "Bring us back to port." She whispered to younger ship.
With a smile, Hammann set off back to port with Yorktown in tow and a broad grin across her face.
So I came up with a wild theory
That is totally legit, guys
Totally.
I propose that Fubuki is secretly the Winter Soldier
I know it seems a bit crazy, but hear me out.
-They both have the nickname of "Bucky"
-They are both deadly living weapons
-Fubuki's name means "Blizzard," which happens during the winter.
-They both have brown hair.
-Have you ever seen them in a room together? Think about it.
So I came up with a wild theory
That is totally legit, guys
Totally.
I propose that Fubuki is secretly the Winter Soldier
I know it seems a bit crazy, but hear me out.
-They both have the nickname of "Bucky"
-They are both deadly living weapons
-Fubuki's name means "Blizzard," which happens during the winter.
-They both have brown hair.
-Have you ever seen them in a room together? Think about it.
@Sheo Darren hasn't quite elaborated on this much, but for Eternity, Fubuki is basically the leader figure for Yokosuka's DDs. I have plans for her for Eternity sidestories. And The Lost Generation. Oh yes, I have plans.
One returned.
Of a clod of Abyssal destroyers that tried to assault Nerima ward via the Shakujii river, only one escaped. It bore tales of the others being malleted into pancakes, cut into strips with thrown battle spatulas, cracked with wooden swords, splatted with ball maces and even knocked out with thrown training potties – and all of the damage was dealt by ordinary humans, except the training potties. They were thrown by… a duck?
As a result, Nerima ward has been declared off limits to all assault units until more data on the situation there is available.
I remember reading something somewhere, about a Japanese destroyer who was sunk even before WWII began, but I can't remember the name. Does anyone else know which one it was?
I remember reading something somewhere, about a Japanese destroyer who was sunk even before WWII began, but I can't remember the name. Does anyone else know which one it was?
One returned.
Of a clod of Abyssal destroyers that tried to assault Nerima ward via the Shakujii river, only one escaped. It bore tales of the others being malleted into pancakes, cut into strips with thrown battle spatulas, cracked with wooden swords, splatted with ball maces and even knocked out with thrown training potties – and all of the damage was dealt by ordinary humans, except the training potties. They were thrown by… a duck?
As a result, Nerima ward has been declared off limits to all assault units until more data on the situation there is available.
) That said, most of what you said about the Skyraider applies to the Ryuusei as well - multirole dive and torpedo bomber, teething troubles (which the in-game description notes re: the Ryuusei). I'd probably just expect to see it as a torpedo bomber, just like the Ryuusei - perhaps with some additional dive bombing stat.
