just a though really, but over the thousands of harvests its interesting that we don't see any civilization outright reject the easy path of Mass Effect technology and attempt to research alternative tech paths (obviously if they did then we wouldn't have the story we have...) but it might be interesting if the protheans were working on it and that's the reason why a huge section of the galaxy is relatively clean of Eezo... i'm not sure how i'd feel about it if the protheans were hoping that humanity would use the lack of Eezo and the relatively less than accessible relay in charon as incentives to work out an alternative tech path than the mass effect tech tree.
 
just a though really, but over the thousands of harvests its interesting that we don't see any civilization outright reject the easy path of Mass Effect technology and attempt to research alternative tech paths (obviously if they did then we wouldn't have the story we have...) but it might be interesting if the protheans were working on it and that's the reason why a huge section of the galaxy is relatively clean of Eezo... i'm not sure how i'd feel about it if the protheans were hoping that humanity would use the lack of Eezo and the relatively less than accessible relay in charon as incentives to work out an alternative tech path than the mass effect tech tree.
presumably, once a civilization starts using E0, any other method they can use to achieve the same effect is sufficiently inferior to make them non-viable alternatives, and thus consideration of alternate solutions quickly drops off. and of course, starting E0 prohibits easy WIMP experimentation unless done VERY early on. much like how humans poked E0 a bit once they found it. it's rather harder to poke E0 with a WIMP beam when you're using it in everything. scouring half the planet to bedrock tends to be hard on the inhabitants.
 
presumably, once a civilization starts using E0, any other method they can use to achieve the same effect is sufficiently inferior to make them non-viable alternatives, and thus consideration of alternate solutions quickly drops off. and of course, starting E0 prohibits easy WIMP experimentation unless done VERY early on. much like how humans poked E0 a bit once they found it. it's rather harder to poke E0 with a WIMP beam when you're using it in everything. scouring half the planet to bedrock tends to be hard on the inhabitants.
It wouldn't even need to be inferior in the long term merely have it not be as convient or cheap in the short term to drastically drop the chances anyone invests in it.
just a though really, but over the thousands of harvests its interesting that we don't see any civilization outright reject the easy path of Mass Effect technology and attempt to research alternative tech paths (obviously if they did then we wouldn't have the story we have...) but it might be interesting if the protheans were working on it and that's the reason why a huge section of the galaxy is relatively clean of Eezo... i'm not sure how i'd feel about it if the protheans were hoping that humanity would use the lack of Eezo and the relatively less than accessible relay in charon as incentives to work out an alternative tech path than the mass effect tech tree.
Actually it is possible previous civilisations have, but weren't successful in stopping the Reapers. It would explain why the Reapers are so careful about seeding technology near the life bearing worlds.
Also remember their are no garden worlds in canon without relays, the whole premise is that a civilisation will encounter mass effect technology and the relay network early on. Since garden worlds don't just pop up out of nowhere but rather take hundreds of millions of years to develop naturally, the Reapers could easily ensure that they know the location of every garden world and place a relay nearby. The whole trap doesn't work otherwise.

Actually that leads to the question @mp3.1415player have you got a solution for why the Thrax homeworld doesn't have a relay in it? As I explained above it makes no sense the Reapers would allow it to exist.
 
I like to think that if they actually could demonstrate it in a transparent and reproducible way then I would be sensible enough to not just ignore it simply because it's something I don't want to hear, but I can't speak for anyone else there.
Congratulations, you are amongst a very small minority of people who are willing to not ignore something because it is something you don't want to hear and hope it goes away, or even make it go away if you have to.

Humanity has a long history of hating and fearing change, attempting to hide from or deny uncomfortable realities until literally forced to accept the alternative. For a relatively recent real-world example; see Climate Change, a very uncomfortable reality that large swathes of the world's population are still trying to pretend isn't real, or isn't as big a deal as it really is, despite the fact that it has been a well established scientific reality for over half a century.

This isn't to say that such denial is guaranteed under all circumstances, but statistically speaking humans (the only intelligent beings we know of, and thus the only intelligent beings we can use as a model) when given a choice between confronting a problematic and uncomfortable truth or not doing that, will typically invest heavily in denial until doing so no longer works, and even then you'll often still see people desperately trying to cling to denial despite the reality coming down all around them.

Actually that leads to the question @mp3.1415player have you got a solution for why the Thrax homeworld doesn't have a relay in it? As I explained above it makes no sense the Reapers would allow it to exist.
This is the Cycle that the Protheans on Ilos interfered with, the galaxy is a very big place, and the sector of the galaxy that the Humanx occupy was very sparsely populated with Relays which could potentially imply that it actually wasn't all that well explored by the Reapers in recent Cycles. So it's possible they only noticed Hiveholm in the last Cycle and the distribution of a Relay to that system was interrupted by whatever the Ilos Protheans did to hack the Keepers on the Citadel.

We don't actually know where Relays are built and how they are distributed to target systems after all; it would be inefficient for them to be personally built by the Reapers during each Cycle. It seems more likely that they would be constructed in some purpose-built facility kept in a special hidden location and distributed from there, probably hidden near the galactic core along with the Collector Base and sent through the Omega 4 Relay, since it seems unlikely that the whole 'hidden base in galactic core' and Omega 4 Relay was set up entirely in the last Cycle specifically for the Collectors; more probable that the Reapers just taped the Collectors onto something they already had, and the most likely reason for a hidden base in the galactic core connected to a special super-Relay would be for the construction and maintenance systems for the Relay network.

It's not like Shepard really bothered to explore anything around the Collector Base when they went there, so who knows what else the Reapers could have had hidden around Sagittarius A*; it is a pretty good place to hide things if you have the ability to keep shit intact under those conditions, which the Reapers obviously do.
 
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This is the Cycle that the Protheans on Ilos interfered with, the galaxy is a very big place, and the sector of the galaxy that the Humanx occupy was very sparsely populated with Relays which could potentially imply that it actually wasn't all that well explored by the Reapers in recent Cycles. So it's possible they only noticed Hiveholm in the last Cycle and the distribution of a Relay to that system was interrupted by whatever the Ilos Protheans did to hack the Keepers on the Citadel.
I'm a bit sceptical that the Reapers managed to miss a garden world for a few hundred million years... maybe if its a terraformed world? That would explain why it so suddenly popped out of nowhere, but then who terraformed it? The Prothean's probably didn't have the technology considering how far it was from the relay network, not to mention the lack of eezo.
We don't actually know where Relays are built and how they are distributed to target systems after all; it would be inefficient for them to be personally built by the Reapers during each Cycle. It seems more likely that they would be constructed in some purpose-built facility kept in a special hidden location and distributed from there, probably hidden near the galactic core along with the Collector Base and sent through the Omega 4 Relay, since it seems unlikely that the whole 'hidden base in galactic core' and Omega 4 Relay was set up entirely in the last Cycle specifically for the Collectors; more probable that the Reapers just taped the Collectors onto something they already had, and the most likely reason for a hidden base in the galactic core connected to a special super-Relay would be for the construction and maintenance systems for the Relay network.

It's not like Shepard really bothered to explore anything around the Collector Base when they went there, so who knows what else the Reapers could have had hidden around Sagittarius A*; it is a pretty good place to hide things if you have the ability to keep shit intact under those conditions, which the Reapers obviously do.
I do like the theory there built in the Collectors base it does make sense. Through I do have this theory that relays can invert there mass effect core to generate a drive field to allow movement. This would explain how their moved around the galaxy in reasonable time. Plus it fits with my theory they relocate the non-garden world relays every cycle or two to help mix up the evidence and reveal new mineral deposits.
 
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I'm a bit sceptical that the Reapers managed to miss a garden world for a few hundred million years... maybe if its a terraformed world? That would explain why it so suddenly popped out of nowhere, but then who terraformed it? The Prothean's probably didn't have the technology considering how far it was from the relay network, not to mention the lack of eezo.
All it would take is a simple clerical error with the star system being accidentally marked as explored and containing no worlds suitable for bearing life and odds are they wouldn't bother to check it again to see if anything had changed for at least a few hundred million years; the Reapers aren't perfect, they make mistakes.
 
For a relatively recent real-world example; see Climate Change, a very uncomfortable reality that large swathes of the world's population are still trying to pretend isn't real, or isn't as big a deal as it really is, despite the fact that it has been a well established scientific reality for over half a century.
Alright, I suppose I can't argue with that, but on the other hand I still feel like we can infer some things from the fact that Citadel society is at least a thousand years old and has managed to survive that long. That speaks of some willingness to deal with the kind of unavoidable crises that pop up over a timespan that long.
 
Alright, I suppose I can't argue with that, but on the other hand I still feel like we can infer some things from the fact that Citadel society is at least a thousand years old and has managed to survive that long. That speaks of some willingness to deal with the kind of unavoidable crises that pop up over a timespan that long.

As I recall, Aethyta (the bartender at Eternity on Illium in ME2) bitches about how they can't go an asari lifetime without some huge galactic war cropping up when you first meet her.

So they probably do have the same sort of problem, just set to a longer timespan.
 
As I recall, Aethyta (the bartender at Eternity on Illium in ME2) bitches about how they can't go an asari lifetime without some huge galactic war cropping up when you first meet her.

So they probably do have the same sort of problem, just set to a longer timespan.
Well, once every thousand years is still better than our system, so hey. :V
 
Keep in mind that the traditional way that the Asari deal with politically troublesome Matriarchs is by giving them a colony ship and telling them to take their followers and bugger off to somewhere else in uncharted space where they can't upset the status quo.

If that isn't ignoring problems until they go away, I don't know what is.
 
All it would take is a simple clerical error with the star system being accidentally marked as explored and containing no worlds suitable for bearing life and odds are they wouldn't bother to check it again to see if anything had changed for at least a few hundred million years; the Reapers aren't perfect, they make mistakes.
True. Logical tireless machines the Reapers are not. We regularly see them make mistakes especially out of hubris, it's just there overwhelming advantages mean it's rarely a problem.
 
I'm a bit sceptical that the Reapers managed to miss a garden world for a few hundred million years... maybe if its a terraformed world? That would explain why it so suddenly popped out of nowhere, but then who terraformed it? The Prothean's probably didn't have the technology considering how far it was from the relay network, not to mention the lack of eezo.
Well, we don't actually know exactly how far Hivehom's system was from the nearest Relay. I could see it being within the "acceptable" travel distance via normal E0 drive systems, which would have given the planet a full cycle's buffer on top of whatever the Protheans did to stall the start of the new cycle after their fall. It would have been pretty tight, but that would've given sufficient time for the Thranx civilization to pick up and start ascending without Reaper notice.
 
For all we know, the Reapers may have taken a look at Hivehom and determined that the natives wouldn't develop space flight before the next cycle, and was planning to install the relay after said next cycle.
 
For all we know, the Reapers may have taken a look at Hivehom and determined that the natives wouldn't develop space flight before the next cycle, and was planning to install the relay after said next cycle.
The problem with that is that compared to the whole length of human history agriculture to space flight was actually quite fast, ten thousand years as opposed to a 315,000 years ago we evolved. Hence the Reapers would logically be very cautious about installing the relays since there's no telling when a species might start developing technology.
 
Given that the Thranx were primarily a subterranean species until their own industrial revolution, I'm willing to accept that they managed to be overlooked at the last survey pass conducted by the Reapers or whatever agent they used, and then the Prothean interrupt gave them the time to hit spaceflight. With the discovery of the blink drive being a bit of a statistical anomaly for humans, they could have hit on the same sort of gravity manipulation technology as the Thranx, though with the E0 in the solar system there would have been a much higher chance of setting off the Relay and ending the species for all intents and purposes.
 
The simplest explanation is that even the Reapers only have finite resources, and there are so many star systems in the galaxy that inevitably they're going to miss one or two candidates per cycle. Usually they get away with it because the overlooked races either stumble across a relay or some other E0-using race makes contact and passes the tech on... And if they have WIMP tech already then that's one less advanced civilisation to wipe out come the next cycle, because unless they're incredibly lucky the way humanity was they're not going to find out about what happens when you turn on a blink-drive near some E0 until they accidentally Mentos-and-Coke someone else's planet into a smouldering heap of rubble.
 
In reference to the ongoing discussion.

If the Reapers are all that the Reapers claim they are why are there less then 4000 Relays in the Milky Way Galaxy?

What is keeping the Reapers contained? There lots of things that could be doing this, lots of combination of things that could put limits on Reaper expansion.

What has been going on in the rest of the Milky Way Galaxy in the billions of years that the Reapers have playing in their little planium trap/sand box?

Edit: Are the Reapers little fish in a little pond?

:evil: :D
 
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Given that the Thranx were primarily a subterranean species until their own industrial revolution, I'm willing to accept that they managed to be overlooked at the last survey pass conducted by the Reapers or whatever agent they used, and then the Prothean interrupt gave them the time to hit spaceflight. With the discovery of the blink drive being a bit of a statistical anomaly for humans, they could have hit on the same sort of gravity manipulation technology as the Thranx, though with the E0 in the solar system there would have been a much higher chance of setting off the Relay and ending the species for all intents and purposes.
They might miss them, but that not what I have a problem with. My argument is that to be on the safe side they should have a relay near every garden world every cycle just in case a civilisation arises. It far safer than trying to guess which species are going to develop next cycle and also discorages relay species leaving the network. After all if every garden world is on the network why bother going elsewhere? Terraforming is far more difficult than settling already existing garden worlds.
 
They might miss them, but that not what I have a problem with. My argument is that to be on the safe side they should have a relay near every garden world every cycle just in case a civilisation arises. It far safer than trying to guess which species are going to develop next cycle and also discorages relay species leaving the network. After all if every garden world is on the network why bother going elsewhere? Terraforming is far more difficult than settling already existing garden worlds.

The best answer is that the Reapers do not have the resources/ability/power/intelligence (what ever) to put a Relay near every garden world or they would have done that.

The next best answer is that the Reapers are not the pinnacle creation and inheritors of Leviathans. They are the Fuck Up and Oops of the Leviathans.

The Reapers are not the Leviathans done better, they are a mistake of the Leviathans that killed the Leviathans.
 
What has been going on in the rest of the Milky Way Galaxy in the billions of years that the Reapers have playing in their little planium trap/sand box?

Edit: Are the Reapers little fish in a little pond?
On the contrary, I'd say they're pretty large fish... in an incomprehensibly vast ocean. Most of which probably doesn't have anything very important in it; for every system where they seeded a Relay there were probably a literal million that had no planets where conditions appeared to favour the evolution of life, or at least an industrial society (ocean planets with so little landmass that it's unlikely anything sapient will evolve lungs, much less figure out how to smelt iron, are one example that comes to mind) and could therefore safely be ignored between Cycles.

The Reapers could have passed through the Thranx's home system a few million years ago, recorded what would come to be known as Hiveholm as a barren rock with some volcanic activity but negligible surface water and filed the system under "Nothing of Interest"... and then a scant thousand years later it gets T-boned by a comet the size of Canada and suddenly has oceans. Or as @Frogs321 says above, it could simply be that they only had enough E0 for one of the two likely candidates in the general area and picked Earth because it looked slightly more promising by whatever arcane criteria they use, or even just by a metaphorical coin-flip.
 
The best answer is that the Reapers do not have the resources/ability/power/intelligence (what ever) to put a Relay near every garden world or they would have done that.

The next best answer is that the Reapers are not the pinnacle creation and inheritors of Leviathans. They are the Fuck Up and Oops of the Leviathans.

The Reapers are not the Leviathans done better, they are a mistake of the Leviathans that killed the Leviathans.
You don't have to be the pinnacle of creation to be sensible with constructing your trap. As for resource limits, we never see any resource problems for the Reapers and indeed we've seen Reaper technology acting with no resupply or maintenances for thousands of years or longer. The relays being prime examples of this, most of which are millions of years old and run for several several thousand years each cycle. Plus frankly they had more than enough resources stored in the collectors base to build a new Reaper.
 
The Reapers are most probably using the cycle races as their explorers. When they smashed the leviathans, they inherited their navigation charts, as well as their servitor races. The Protheans discovered most of the ME races, so it's safe to say that the reapers inherited that knowledge after they captured the center of their empire: the citadel. The Citadel is truely a convenient trap, luring unsuspecting species into using its systems, storing data and even basing their government on it. Indoctrination's greatest ability is to gather information, weither it be by infiltration agents or just by indoctrinating people. Reapers, as OP as they are, aren't capable of traversing the entire galaxy, so they position relays in such a way that it can cover as much systems as possible, with many systems within reach via the ME drive in a reasonable amount of time and resources, at least for organics. Using the leviathan servitor races as a first step, they expanded their knowledge of the galaxy one cycle at a time. And if ever there might be a race thay slips past and developed wimp, we're sure that any such races have failed since the reapers are still here. That's probably why we have prime relays and secondary relays, primes to bridge the distance between the search areas and secondaries to enlargen the search areas; the galaxy is mostly large voids between stars so the need to bridge the far ones. The reapers then hide for 50k years then collect their harvest, including the information gathered by the organics, devious and clever. Rent the land, let the organics do all the work then collect the rent, hah.
 
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