In Another World: Isekai Story Creative Discussion and Idea Thread

Conflicts in an Isekai
And this shows why how a lot of people approach Isekai kind of blows IMO. Because instead of being about a character being drawn into another world and having an adventure, experiencing a brave new world with amazing vistas and crazy metaphysical concepts, and making weird new friends or finding love like Tidus does, the focus is on the new world being simply used as a vehicle for their personal success.

Like, your first line lays it out pretty starkly. The magical world doesn't matter, going on a cool adventure doesn't matter, it's "take control or advantage" that matters. Set it in the real world and take away the anime flourish and it becomes the same kind of story as the Wolf of Wall Street.
Well, in general main characters have to be in conflict with something, whether themself or the world or another character. And in an Isekai story the main character has to be special in the world. I'd say unique but there are many isekai stories where several characters go to the new world, possibly including the nemesis/rival character if there is one. If you have a special character vs. the world, you're naturally going to have a "take control or advantage" story. Personally I think a Wolf of Wall Street story is fun to start with, but more fun in a fantasy world; I don't think there's any problem with writing or enjoying that kind of story, particularly if you leven it with a romance subplot or humor. There's also no reason the main character can't think the new world is amazing and be enthusiastic to learn about it; I think this is just not the personality Isekai writers usually want in their main character, because it can come across as geeky or draw too much attention to the wish-fulfillment basis of the move to the new world, which might break readers' immersion. But anyway, this type of "vs. World" conflict can also be done as a cleverness-focused story or wisdom/insight-focused story, with the main character becoming the best at solving the puzzles of the world. Cleverness stories are harder to write than RPG strength growth stories, so that's why their less common. And it's pretty rare writer who is even interested in writing a wisdom or insight story, especially without being preachy about it. I've seen a few though.

That all applies to the "vs. the world" conflict option, but there are more options to consider. If you have two characters who are special in similar ways vs. each other, then it's also a natural choice to have the new world being the interesting stage for their struggle. Both of them would probably be wrestling to understand and control the new world or a new aspect of it like magic or super combat ability or monster taming or spaceship racing or whatever is the world's unique fantasy or science fiction element. So that's partly what you are complaining about but partly not, since the focus is more on the rivalry.

"vs. Self" stories are often the most different. These tend to occur more as the "reincarnated as a baby in another world" or the "man up through playing a VRMMO" story type, but there are also a fair number of isekai stories where the main character is deeply unhappy with themself at the start of the story and is inspired or forced by the new world to remodel themself. This can go either direction of "open your heart" or "become a casual killer", or even, oddly, both. These kind of stories generally have lots of wandering exploration and little to no politics unless the MC decides to settle down to kingdom building or as the champion of a king.

What I was trying to say about Tidus is that the reason I'd never write a fanfic about him is that for the first 2/3 of FFX he has neither agency nor emotional investment in his story beyond a kind of confused panic. Confused panic can have its moments in stories, but it makes quite a weak beginning.
 
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I'd say that Isekai, and fics in general, need a balance between "MC with no motivations or personal goals gets dragged around by the plot" and "MC acts on the world and it just bends over and takes it".

So kind of a balance between Alice In Wonderland and Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court?

I wonder if Wizard Of Oz would be within that balance.
 
Comparing Alice to Dorothy
It's pretty much the same as Alice In Wonderland, IMO.

I don't know. Alice just goes along and sees the sights of Wonderland (and beyond the Looking Glass in the sequel, although she does have a mild motivation to reach the other side of the chessboard in that one), which matches the "no motivations or personal goals gets dragged around by the plot" bit I quoted.

Dorothy has a fairly clear goal to return to her own world, which has the intermediate goal of meeting the titular Wizard of Oz, which she believes can accomplish this. Along the way, she picks up an adventuring party, and causes drastic changes to what seems to be fairly major established authorities in the setting. However, she doesn't really cause the world to "bend over and take it", since that wasn't really her plan; it just happened during the course of the plot.

So I would say Dorothy has more motivation than Alice, rather than being "pretty much the same".
 
I don't know. Alice just goes along and sees the sights of Wonderland (and beyond the Looking Glass in the sequel, although she does have a mild motivation to reach the other side of the chessboard in that one), which matches the "no motivations or personal goals gets dragged around by the plot" bit I quoted.

Dorothy has a fairly clear goal to return to her own world, which has the intermediate goal of meeting the titular Wizard of Oz, which she believes can accomplish this. Along the way, she picks up an adventuring party, and causes drastic changes to what seems to be fairly major established authorities in the setting. However, she doesn't really cause the world to "bend over and take it", since that wasn't really her plan; it just happened during the course of the plot.

So I would say Dorothy has more motivation than Alice, rather than being "pretty much the same".
I think that Alice actively wants to force things to make sense, though of course she fails at this repeatedly until she frustratedly grasps that this world does not make sense. She also, entirely based on her own thoughts, forms several other goals over the course of the story, such as finding the white rabbit, interfering in the mistreatment of the baby, and escaping the company of the red queen. Alice and Dorothy have very different personalities though; I like Alice better because she shows stronger emotion by getting irritated and being stubborn and trying to rise above the insanity around her. But Dorothy has good points too - she remains calm in a crisis and comforts her team members and penetrates the disguise of the Wizard.
 
What makes an Isekai an Isekai
I believe Isekai is not about "Protagonist in a new world starting a new life/fulfilling prophecies either by choice or not". Because we have many stories that don't involve another world or alternate realities but still has a very similar spirit that we usually found in Isekai genre.

Stories like:
-Stories about people running away from their old life and trying their best to start fresh. Eventually, they succeed in their new life or struggle back to their old life.
-Stories about people got lost/trapped in an alien place that is very different from home. Whether they accept and adapt to survive in the alien place or reject and bends over the alien place to make it their own home.

It is an Isekai if the protagonist got summoned to another world and forced to battle monsters.
It is not an Isekai if the protagonist got kidnapped to another country and forced to work as a slave labor.

Isekai is simple, you can call a story is an Isekai as long as the protagonist got transported to another world/alternate realities.

I wonder if Superman is an Isekai story or not, he is from another planet, right? That is entirely different world from the earth and Superman got the 'special' power on earth just like many protagonists from 'You get power as long as you are in another world' kind of story
 
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On Magic in Isekais
Wow, reading this thread, I've realized that my YJ fanfic probably counts as an Isekai.
  • Main character originated in Mistborn series' world, and after dying agrees to go explore another world for her home world's god. That other world turns out to be Earth-16 of Young Justice.
  • Her inherent magic has a way to let her read/speak the local language, but she doesn't start off with the required pieces, and she's gone from a medieval / early industrial world to 2010 Earth with comic book schizo-tech. She thinks in magic and doesn't really distinguish between Earth magic and advanced science (like nano-tech, teleporters, telephones).
  • She is very happy that she's ended up in a world where human life and human rights are valued more highly than her home, but it does occasionally conflict with her instinct to kill an enemy in a fight, and she gets repeatedly frustrated that she has to lock up villains only for them to later escape.
  • After time-skip during which she's homeless, the story basically starts off with her walking into the Daily Planet and asking Lois Lane for an introduction to Superman, because a homeless, penniless, foreign-born, teenaged meta-human only has so many options and she'd rather not spend her life in & out of jail.
  • She has superpowers. They are superpowers pretty much nothing like what anyone else has. Other people still have other superpowers, though, and many of them are more dangerous than hers; she flat out cannot deal damage to any super-tough enemy, she can't fly, she can't throw around energy blasts...

I'd say that Isekai, and fics in general, need a balance between "MC with no motivations or personal goals gets dragged around by the plot" and "MC acts on the world and it just bends over and takes it".

The most important trick in my arsenal is for the character and the natives both to be out-of-context problems for each other.

MC can be less than motivated and play it cautious until they figure out what is going on & decide what they want to do. Meanwhile, they have something no one else does, but there's also stuff the MC simply cannot do, and things that can bite them unexpectedly.

My original idea for the contest submission (I have since changed my idea so the idea is up for grabs) had an MC with D&D casting powers dumped into a fantasy world with different powers. Because D&D magic has Tier 1 include spells like Goodberry (feed people for a day with berries), Cure Wounds (heal injuries with no other cost), Disguise Self, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, etc.

Tier 2 D&D spells include Lesser Restoration, which cures deafness, blindness, paralysis, poison, or any non-magical disease like plague or HIV or cancer at no cost other than saying the words and the time it takes for the spell slot to reset. Think of what a character could do with that type of power in a world where people can conjure flame tornadoes, but an outbreak of plague or STDs can kill thousands.

To say nothing of Raise Dead being a way of throwing a wrench in a new world without making the protagonist OP.

...

For people wanting to write an Isekai, I'm now realizing you can get a lot of inspiration from reading the right sub-genre of crossover fanfictions (or SI), and those are a lot more reliably available than good quality & mostly completed Isekai Light Novels.

For example, Harry Potter goes through the Veil of Death and ends up in DC universe. He doesn't know much of anything about the local world, and when he meets Superman he thinks, 'Guy in a cape and tights with his underwear on the outside is asking me to come with him.' So he casts Stupefy, calls in a tip to the police, and goes on his way with no idea what he just pulled off.

HP gets most of his money by stunning and rolling the guys who try to mug him - since he's a fifth year student without what he considers to be any marketable skills - and spends most of the story just going on a sight-seeing tour of the States. Meanwhile, Lex Luthor framed the headline of Superman being accused as a pervert, and resolves to do 'something nice' for this kid.

It's pretty much an Isekai with: protagonist ends up in a foreign world with different powers, protagonist has no ties to anything or anyone, protagonist ends up in (arguably) ridiculous situations and non-chalantly achieves incredible things...

Steal a few of those aspects - powerful person is interested in MC's exploits and tries to get on his good side, there's a low-level battle of good & evil going on but not a war of extermination, MC has powers but isn't all powerful and other people have powers - and you've got the makings for an interesting original story, I think.
 
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My original idea for the contest submission (I have since changed my idea so the idea is up for grabs) had an MC with D&D casting powers dumped into a fantasy world with different powers. Because D&D magic has Tier 1 include spells like Goodberry (feed people for a day with berries), Cure Wounds (heal injuries with no other cost), Disguise Self, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, etc.

Tier 2 D&D spells include Lesser Restoration, which cures deafness, blindness, paralysis, poison, or any non-magical disease like plague or HIV or cancer at no cost other than saying the words and the time it takes for the spell slot to reset. Think of what a character could do with that type of power in a world where people can conjure flame tornadoes, but an outbreak of plague or STDs can kill thousands.

To say nothing of Raise Dead being a way of throwing a wrench in a new world without making the protagonist OP.

That just reminds me how D&D jarringly has a mostly normal medieval-ish society while having that kind of magic around.
 
Twin Ideas for the Contest
Two ideas I had for the Isekai contest
1.) So the mc somehow ends up in a coma and goes the the Afterlife. It turns out that the afterlife is basically a mishmash of afterlives in various ancient mythologies (greek, egyptian etc.) Now the mc has to find her way back before her body dies, or else she gets stuck there forever

2.) When the protagonist gets lost in the winding streets of a city, she suddenly finds herself in a landscape she doesn't recognize. After some shenanigans where she meets up with other survivors, she finds out that they are actually in an alternate universe that's connected to our own. Everyone here is actually descended from earth humans who ended up in this place. The mc is weirded out by these new inhabitants. Their settlements seem almost like something out of a dystopian novel, with cameras and lookouts everywhere. Eventually, she finds out why that is: anyone in this world who isn't seen by someone else for more than a few seconds will just disappear forever
This would be a smaller horror-style story. Think The Drains from Pact mixed in with the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who.
 
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Things That Aren't Usually Considered Isekai but Might Technically Fit in
To add to the discussion about "things that aren't usually considered isekai but might technically fit in," and particularly female-protagonist stories, I wanted to mention that many science-fiction, fantasy, and historical romance novels have the main character in a position of mail-order bride, abductee bride, or ambassador-bride; in most of these cases the heroine leaves home for a foreign country or planet and spends most of the story trying to figure out how things work in this alien culture and establish enough social power to defend herself and her family. In some of the science-fiction examples there's even a reverse harem involved. If someone wants specific recommendations, let me know what exactly you want and I'll dig through my reading history.

The one thing these stories tend to entirely lack compared to mainstream isekais or even fanfiction self-inserts is combat, with or without the game interface aspect. Personally that leaves me pondering whether combat should be part of the Isekai definition.
 
Teenage Boy Power Fantasy
There's a joke I made on another thread that I think could actually have some legs if taken half seriously.

Teenage Boy Power Fantasy.

A young man gets transported to a fantasy world and discovers he has a unique affinity for that world's magic, and is thus tasked with travelling the land and saving it from evil. That special affinity he has a name in our world, but in theirs, it's known only as Boy Power.

Basically, what would happen if you took the tropes of isekai and harem anime and gave it a BL twist? You'd get Teenage Boy Power Fantasy. A power fantasy where the painfully average protagonist gets super abilities and is somehow now crazy desirable, and also a powerful fantasy all about boys.

 
Does that mean I will be pursued only by the guys I like? What if I start a relationship/s will people respect that or will I get stalked?

Also, the power is called 'Boy Power'... in a BL story... that could imply the power involves sex... or maybe that's just my dirty mind, either way the idea of a power activated by sex/sexual interest makes me cringe, not in complete distaste, but cringe nonetheless, mind you...
 
Does that mean I will be pursued only by the guys I like? What if I start a relationship/s will people respect that or will I get stalked?

Also, the power is called 'Boy Power'... in a BL story... that could imply the power involves sex... or maybe that's just my dirty mind, either way the idea of a power activated by sex/sexual interest makes me cringe, not in complete distaste, but cringe nonetheless, mind you...

Not activated by sex, no. Passion. In anime terms, think more the Power of Friendship, with ship-teasing/mild ecchi on the side. I'm not aiming as low as a gender-flipped Valkyrie Drive (though I would watch that).

It's more a love for masculinity, and in the harem adventuring party of boys the protagonist gains along the way, they realize all the valid ways a person can express masculinity.

Naturally, there's probably one of the boys that's destined to be the endgame ship, but until then there's the bad boy, the sensitive bear, the loyal twink, the twins, etc.
 
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Personally that leaves me pondering whether combat should be part of the Isekai definition.

I don't think so, unless you expand the definition of "combat" to include all types of conflict, including overcoming natural hardships or social maneuvers.

Some of my favourite isekai have no direct combat, and are mostly just a case of a fairly upbeat person getting into the role of someone who should not be that upbeat, and the setting changing for the positive because of that.
 
I would go for the inocent and playful bulky man, with an overenthusiast personality, maybe a little bratty (but not a jerk or a cretin), that inside is overly conscious about his place in the world and likes to thinks profound thoughts (that only shares with people he deems his friends).

Uhm, he's also competent at directing others, dominating when the situation requires it, but willing to follow those he respects, and very gentle afterward with those he cares about.

Edit: and he shouldn't be a large ham, there's nothing wrong with being boisterous to show that you're happy, but doing so everytime you get exited bout something or in the wrong situations can become annoying fast.

I don't think so, unless you expand the definition of "combat" to include all types of conflict, including overcoming natural hardships or social maneuvers.

Some of my favourite isekai have no direct combat, and are mostly just a case of a fairly upbeat person getting into the role of someone who should not be that upbeat, and the setting changing for the positive because of that.

While changing the world with just optimist sounds, just a little, childish. The idea of someone learning how to have good interactions with people to solve problems atracts me, especially if they're now in an important possition and, also, weren't very sociable before.
 
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While changing the world with just optimist sounds, just a little, childish. The idea of someone learning how to have good interactions with people to solve problems atracts me, especially if they're now in an important possition and, also, weren't very sociable before.

On the one hand, what I meant was indeed more of befriending people who were supposed to be enemies in the "original" setting.

On the other hand, they do this by being upbeat and positive, and it makes the overall setting a better place, because enemies are now friends, and can actually talk things out.

And I would say making the setting better simply because the protagonist is a happy sort is no more childish than the usual case of making the setting better because the protagonist is more powerful than everyone else.
 
Lol. While I could certainly go for a yaoi isekai, I don't think I could take a story about "boy power" seriously. :lol
 
Slap that ass until you're either God, or your hand breaks.

And if your hand breaks, well, you've got another one.

->The Precepts Of Master Van, the Bridler.


That just reminds me how D&D jarringly has a mostly normal medieval-ish society while having that kind of magic around.

Most people who pick DnD as an RPG want to play around in a high fantasy setting, not like... Eclipse Phase (Or Transhuman Space, or Infinity: Corvus Belli, or Baroque Space Opera, or Traveller) with magic instead of nanotech.

Not that the latter'd be a bad thing.
 
Lol. While I could certainly go for a yaoi isekai, I don't think I could take a story about "boy power" seriously. :lol

I suppose if we were using standard isekai tropes, the magic would have some fakey pseudolatin name like "Arretia" or something, while still essentially being a vehicle for why the hero is so good at fighting and magic and also why handsome young men always seem to get into wacky and mildly racy hijinks all around him.
 
I suppose if we were using standard isekai tropes, the magic would have some fakey pseudolatin name like "Arretia" or something, while still essentially being a vehicle for why the hero is so good at fighting and magic and also why handsome young men always seem to get into wacky and mildly racy hijinks all around him.
Well, personally I like my yaoi to follow the more serious 'historical romance' story template; it's good for the main character to have a sense of humor and for humorous things to happen in a story, but if the story concept itself is cheesy I can't take it seriously as a reader. I've never really understood why people write things that are ridiculous from the base concept; it seems like a waste of writing effort to me. There's probably some reason, like writers who find themselves freezing up if they try to write something too serious but can easily write crack. But I'm just not in the target audience; I want to read about people with relatively realistic psychology and personal interactions, though they may be shaped by non-human biology or magical physics.
 
What about something like a sit com, y'know, with exagerated personalities that make for funny interaction, but where every character has their own reason to act the way they do? (and are not just doing random things for the sake of an easy laugh)
 
What about something like a sit com, y'know, with exagerated personalities that make for funny interaction, but where every character has their own reason to act the way they do? (and are not just doing random things for the sake of an easy laugh)
A sitcom or a comedy of manners can be quite enjoyable, except they tend to have plotting/pacing problems. Romances never progress (the main flaw of all harem stuff and most animated stuff intended for teens), villains are never actually defeated unless they are just exchanged for a similar one, the main character doesn't grow stronger or mentally more mature, and the story never gets to a climax and ends. Whether movies, novels, anime series, fanfiction, or quests, a story with a good ending, especially after a well-paced plot arc, is a precious treasure and I wish there were more of them.
 
For me it's only Isekai if a protagonist is transported from our real world of Earth (or at least a fictionalized version thereof) into another world. It's an important part of the audience identification that's inherent to the genre. Going from one fantasy land to another isn't Isekai, and a fantasy protagonist coming to Earth is a different genre as well.

Something like Overlord is an interesting edge case because the MC is from a cyberpunk future earth, but we're clearly supposed to identify with him as an over-worked salaryman for whom games are his only hobby. Even if it's technically the future, he comes from a social setup that the reader is intimately familiar with.
 
For me it's only Isekai if a protagonist is transported from our real world of Earth (or at least a fictionalized version thereof) into another world.

Would Kenkyo Kenjitsu count as isekai? The protagonist goes to (is reincarnated into) another world, except that world is basically similar to ours, with a shoujo manga lens.

As in the world is that of a shoujo manga set in the present day, so everything setting-wise is the same, in broad strokes.
 
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