How would a "realistic" Superman: Red Son play out?

If were sticking with the Red Sun upbringing then he was raised by devotedly communist Ukrainein farmers on a communal farm, until he decided that he couldn't sit and watch while bad things happened, he had to help the people, and the international proletariat. He then went to Moscow and presented himself to Stalin, becoming Stalin's protege.
Yes,Red Sun is dumb for the sake of having what is effectively a Stalinist superman punching it out ideologically with President Luthor.(I hope you remember who won there)
You asked for a realistic version of this.

I honestly prefer the movie version because it doesn't withwashes Stalin.
 
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If we are being realistic Red Son wouldnt happen at all.

The USSR was a failing experiment that more or less enslaved their population.

Look at it this way, Superman coul have seen both a regular US country town and a regular Soviet countryside. How is his side working for the good of all he can pinpoint and compare how many people are actually starving in each side?

Their information denial would have to be from krypton itself to keep Supes from finding out the ussr is a failiure. And they commited many "unnesesary" atrocities he would have to have heard from.

As far as I understand, Red Son made commnunism work by Supes babying the entire union with alien tech, and even then that wasnt enough.
 
As far as I understand, Red Son made commnunism work by Supes babying the entire union with alien tech, and even then that wasnt enough.
The comic has Supes keeping everything socialist and like all socialists otl never trying to transition to communism while somehow the whole world just joins an increasingly dystopian USSR ignoring plausibility and Luthor somehow allows that to happen.
As i was saying the comic is good not realistic
Edit:The movie at least tries to show how straight up evil Stalin was.
 
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Look at it this way, Superman coul have seen both a regular US country town and a regular Soviet countryside. How is his side working for the good of all he can pinpoint and compare how many people are actually starving in each side?

Yeah. This does provide Superman impetus to accept power, though.

It's also why things in Russia under him would very quickly become Project: MAXIMUM SWEDEN.

Heck of a transition period, though.
 
It's also why things in Russia under him would very quickly become Project: MAXIMUM SWEDEN.
Not necessarily,he could probably make planned economy work with Kryptonian tech but the effect would be very similar.
Equal welfare for all people while actually trying to wither away the state and achieve communism.
 
I don't see how he would wither away the state if there are still capitalist nations. Since were going with the modern strength of superman he can't defeat entire nations armies singlehandedly, and if he went for full stateless communism while there are still capitalist powers that's what you would see
 
I don't see how he would wither away the state if there are still capitalist nations. Since were going with the modern strength of superman he can't defeat entire nations armies singlehandedly, and if he went for full stateless communism while there are still capitalist powers that's what you would see
Why would the capitalist powers attack Russia beyond the propaganda.
Did the feudal lords rally to crush mercantilism?
Did mercantilists rally to crush capitalism?
 
Why would the capitalist powers attack Russia beyond the propaganda.
Did the feudal lords rally to crush mercantilism?
Did mercantilists rally to crush capitalism?
Because the existence of any form of socialism, especially at that developed a stage, presents an existential threat to capitalism due to its global nature.

Plus, why wouldn't they? With no army, and the whole thing just defended by supes there's no real reason not to crush the nascent communist paradise. It'll open up new markets, feed the military industrial complex, and most importantly it will remove any potential alternatives to capitalism.For capitalism to remain hegemonic and unchallenged there can't be any visible alternatives for people to see. The'll make something up about horrible atrocities committed in the area, and send troops in to "restore order"
 
Plus, why wouldn't they? With no army, and the whole thing just defended by supes there's no real reason not to crush the nascent communist paradise. It'll open up new markets, feed the military industrial complex, and most importantly it will remove any potential alternatives to capitalism.For capitalism to remain hegemonic and unchallenged there can't be any visible alternatives for people to see. The'll make something up about horrible atrocities committed in the area, and send troops in to "restore order"
1-If humanity is that evil then it deserved to die.
2-You didn't answer my questions
3-You realize that your point is make socialism as garbage as the worst of capitalism so you can avoid developing communism.
 
1-If humanity is that evil then it deserved to die.
2-You didn't answer my questions
3-You realize that your point is make socialism as garbage as the worst of capitalism so you can avoid developing communism.
1. No

2. They didn't need to crush it because they didn't rely on global hegemony to survive

3. No, I'm saying that you can't abolish the state until capitalism is destroyed, or capitalist powers will just be able to crush you
 
If you need opresion to stop the capitalists from oppressing you then what is the point.
Racing to see who can make more people miserable?
The point is achiveing global communism. That's not possible so long as the bourgeoisie exist as a class. Once global socialism has been achieved the bourgeoisie as a class will become impossible, as the means of production are out of their hands, and the transitionary state, no longer having a function, shall wither away
 
That's not possible so long as the bourgeoisie exist as a class.
The party under Vanguardism literally is at best bourgeoisie(They literally exist as a clear ruling class unlike the capitalists that just exhort uniqual influence on the government).

Once global socialism has been achieved the bourgeoisie as a class will become impossible, as the means of production are out of their hands, and the transitionary state, no longer having a function, shall wither away
But what about the alien capitalist that could invade any day now and internal dissent from the eternal revisionists/traitor/reactionary.
Also would you accept genocide for your world revolution because if you can stretch your legs that far adding a bit extra misery on top shouldn't bother you.
 
You know the big problem with Communism that I doubt even Kryptonian tech equipped Superman could deal with?

How many plates do X people need?

The Star Trek Federation you will note, doesn't have this problem, both because it's still actually capitalist, it just has Replicator's and, thanks to easy access to space, effectively infinite power, so you can just give citizens a bunch of energy credits and housing(because easy access to the stars means room isn't a problem either) effectively for free, so you have a REALLY good welfare system... and it still has a class system though. And, even the Federation doesn't TRY to answer "how many plates do X people need?" that's what Replicators are for. Similarly, in a straight capitalist economy "How many plates do X people need?" is not the question, the question is "How many plates will X people buy.", and that's both easier to get reasonably right and less likely to cause major problems if you get it wrong.
 
You know the big problem with Communism that I doubt even Kryptonian tech equipped Superman could deal with?

How many plates do X people need?

The Star Trek Federation you will note, doesn't have this problem, both because it's still actually capitalist, it just has Replicator's and, thanks to easy access to space, effectively infinite power, so you can just give citizens a bunch of energy credits and housing(because easy access to the stars means room isn't a problem either) effectively for free, so you have a REALLY good welfare system... and it still has a class system though. And, even the Federation doesn't TRY to answer "how many plates do X people need?" that's what Replicators are for. Similarly, in a straight capitalist economy "How many plates do X people need?" is not the question, the question is "How many plates will X people buy.", and that's both easier to get reasonably right and less likely to cause major problems if you get it wrong.
Well we don't exactly know what Supermans vision of what actual communism is. Just because we live in a capitalistic society today, doesn't mean its what the founding fathers would've wanted. So it isn't what Lenin wanted, but what Superman wants after blowing Stalins brains out.
 
Well we don't exactly know what Supermans vision of what actual communism is. Just because we live in a capitalistic society today, doesn't mean its what the founding fathers would've wanted. So it isn't what Lenin wanted, but what Superman wants after blowing Stalins brains out.
If it involves any level of centralized planning Superman will STILL have to answer "How many X do Y people need?". And that's a question that's nearly impossible to answer on a broad level. Using my prior example, Plates, let's say the government makes the reasonable assumption of dishes being washed at least once a day and plans for 5 plates per person to account for dishes being washed at different times. What happens when an individual is unusually clumsy and regularly breaks plates?

IRL there was a similar issue with windshield wipers, the government assumed "2 sets per car" would work. It was woefully insufficient.
 
Man, I've been seeing this thread around for a while, but never bothered to look,but that I do, I'm rather disappointing at what I see. 9 pages in, and it seems you guys didn't get too far in this "timeline". Maybe you guys should just find an idea and then stick with it.
 
Man, I've been seeing this thread around for a while, but never bothered to look,but that I do, I'm rather disappointing at what I see. 9 pages in, and it seems you guys didn't get too far in this "timeline". Maybe you guys should just find an idea and then stick with it.
"realistic"+"communist"+"Superman"

figuring out what the first word actually MEANS related to the second two is... challenging.
 
Man, I've been seeing this thread around for a while, but never bothered to look,but that I do, I'm rather disappointing at what I see. 9 pages in, and it seems you guys didn't get too far in this "timeline". Maybe you guys should just find an idea and then stick with it.
It's hard when most of the thread doesn't understand the basics of communism, something there supposedly planning to write about
 
The party under Vanguardism literally is at best bourgeoisie(They literally exist as a clear ruling class unlike the capitalists that just exhort uniqual influence on the government).


But what about the alien capitalist that could invade any day now and internal dissent from the eternal revisionists/traitor/reactionary.
Also would you accept genocide for your world revolution because if you can stretch your legs that far adding
We know the basics of communism. We disagree about the priority levels a Paragon would have.
I don't see how establishing worldwide communism isn't priority #1 for any idealistic communist leader
 
At this point, I'm wondering what a Double Blind What If version would look like where a democratic socialist timeline wonders what a pro-capitalist American Superman would be and there would be arguing between 'peaceful capitalist businessman showing by example' and 'imperialist spreading capitalist democracy to the world by force' lines.
 
At this point, I'm wondering what a Double Blind What If version would look like where a democratic socialist timeline wonders what a pro-capitalist American Superman would be and there would be arguing between 'peaceful capitalist businessman showing by example' and 'imperialist spreading capitalist democracy to the world by force' lines.

Clearly a capitalist Superman would fly around vaporizing anyone who violates the non-aggression principle.
 
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