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House of the Dragon premiering August 21

This is true, but the dissonance comes when the showrunners say this is supposed to be a "triumphant" and "heroic" moment for Rhaenys, as if she's an epic girlboss and not a horrific mass murderer.
 
I feel like there's an attribution of intentional theming to a lot of moments where it's actually just accidental.
 
phil03 said:
Rethinking the scene a bit I do think the internet collectively (myself included) might have overstated how bad the blow would have been for the Greens. Like, don't get me wrong: in one swoop they would have lost three dragon riders and the Alicent-Otto-Criston triumvirat that lead them at this stage but it wouldn't be the end of the road for them. Aegon's kids didn't seem to have been there and neither where Larys and the other members of the Green Small Council. Aegon's oldest son could have been crowned, the leadership vacuum among the Greens filled and a Green version of the Sowing conducted, with presumably the children of King's Landing's prostitutes having at least a descent cohort of Targaryen bastards among their ranks...

Even going to the Red Keep and killing Aegon's children there alongside the Green councilors (by no means an easy feat between the opportunities the palace would have to provide escapes and it would presumably be on high alert at this point) since the Green supporters elsewhere could provide the advisors for a new small council, Otto's people in the Gold Cloaks could have re-established a Green order on the capital and Daeron would have been crowned.

IMO Rhaenys more or less realised all this to at least some degree but she was planning to slaughter the Greens at the coronation nonetheless because, as others have pointed, she was one of the few who knew that Viserys having a son while still keeping Rhaenyra as heir would basically ensure war no matter the circumstances so she decided she would simply strike the first blow to give as a good a chance to the Blacks as possible and she simply reconsidered at the last moment. Why? The kinslaying taboo that me and others have discussed is a possibility, so is the idea that she understood on some level how desctructive this would be and she didn't want to destroy the last small chance of a peaceful settlement and perhaps that she thought that such an act would end up hurting the Blacks despite the blow to the Greens by costing a ton of support. She might also not have wanted a gigantic target on her and House Velaryon. Of course, these aren't mutually exclusive either...
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Taking out the Three dragon riders that were there would have hamstrung the Greens to such a degree that it would not have matter if Otto's allies had decided to keep going even with him and their chosen king dead and they would have been Alone. They would not get the support from the crown lands or the Stormlands that they do. Tesserion would have been the only dragon they had against all Six of the dragons the Blacks could bring. Without Vahgar and Sunfrye the war goes very differently. Rhaenys knows the power they have at their disposal and how much of a trump card Vahgar could be at any fight. I would say that running with the idea that she could not do it in the moment is the best way to go with what we were given on screen.

Gyrfalcon said:
  • Daemon's brutal administration of justice in King's Landing
  • Mysaria having to explain to the Daemon the difference in the impact his actions have on her due to her lower class
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Daemon was actually liked by the Goldcloaks and a great many people in the city for actually making them effective at enforcing the law and making sure crime was actually punished. Also I really can't see Mysaria not understanding that getting involved with Daemon did not mean she was taking a chance she could get burned.

Gyrfalcon said:
I mean, it is those things. For her.
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Rhaenys is not someone like Daemon who could kill people with out a care just because they are lower on the "social scale". I find the idea that she does not consider having killed those people just to in the end make a statement as casualties she did not really want and instead would think of it as a "girlboss" moment as a misreading of her character at the least.
 
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Gyrfalcon said:
I mean this is a running theme so far in the show: the nobility treats the smallfolk like absolute shit, even the "good" nobles. Examples so far including:
  • Daemon's brutal administration of justice in King's Landing
  • Mysaria having to explain to the Daemon the difference in the impact his actions have on her due to her lower class
  • Rhaenyra stealing from a street vendor and writing off the commoners' opinion of her because she has dragons and doesn't need to listen to them
  • Daemon beating a messenger half to death due to no fault of the messenger
  • Larys extorting and mutilating condemned commoners in order to use them as silent murderers
  • Daemon and Rhaenyra conspiring to murder a random person so they can cover up Laenor's escape
  • Aegon raping a servant girl and Alicent paying for her silence while subtly threatening her
  • The fucking child fighting pit in Flea Bottom, patronized by the royals and ignored or allowed by the Crown
  • Mysaria's veiled threat of how the commoners feel about the nobles and Otto's veiled threat in return
  • Rhaenys trampling smallfolk while she makes her escape while explicitly sparing people of her own station
This is an autocratic, patriarchal society where regular people have few rights and the authority of the people in charge is due explicitly to their ability to exert force, most strongly personified in the dragons themselves. And this is going to become very relevant later on when:

the people of King's Landing rise up and destroy the dragons that have been used to abuse them over the course of the war.
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Uuuuuh, thats cool... But I was talking about how the nobles that were murdering other nobles though.
 
I've really enjoyed this show and it's on par with earlier GoT seasons. And seeing the Targaryens as a ruling faction has changed my view on them quite a bit. Because it appears they weren't at least in this period as bugfuck-nuts as Daenerys, Viserys and their father Ayres were.
 
Tyzuris Coronati said:
I've really enjoyed this show and it's on par with earlier GoT seasons. And seeing the Targaryens as a ruling faction has changed my view on them quite a bit. Because it appears they weren't at least in this period as bugfuck-nuts as Daenerys, Viserys and their father Ayres were.
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Don't forget Aemon, Jon, and Rhaegar. They were so crazy!
 
I have really liked how this episode focused so much on the actual main character.
 
So apparently the finale has leaked and there are controversial 'changes' (or additions / new interpertations) so to speak, particularly

re: Daemon. Probably the source of Hess being surprised he's so popular.

and (major spoiler for the climax of the episode)

the way Lucerys dies - Aemond did not intend it - Arrax and Vhagar disobey them both
 
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Whether or not you think the finale was good, the memes have been top tier. Can't wait to see that
Blood and Cheese, the burning of the Riverlands, and God's Eye were also accidents/misunderstandings.
 
1. This show is leaning really hard on the whole "childbirth is a woman's battlefield" bit. This is the fourth relatively graphic childbirth scene we've seen, and the second one involving Rhaenyra.

2. Where the hell is Lord Commander Westerling? Has he been written out of the story or something?

3. Crack Theory: Alicent was offering to finally tell Rhaenyra she loves her. And not just as a friend either.

4. I can totally buy that someone would build that tower at Storm's End as a great big middle finger to the god of storms who also happens to be his father-in-law.

5. Now I'm wondering how everyone would react if Luce, in a fit of frustration and madness, did take out his own eye with that dagger. It probably won't convince the Baratheons to switch sides or anything, but at the bare minimum it would probably mean Aemond won't try and scare his nephew with Vhaegar or anything.

6. I wonder how Aemond will report what happened. If he tells the truth he's admitting he doesn't fully control his kaiju-dragon, but if he lies and claims he deliberately killed Luce everyone would consider him a kinslayer.
 
Rhaegar I said:
5. Now I'm wondering how everyone would react if Luce, in a fit of frustration and madness, did take out his own eye with that dagger. It probably won't convince the Baratheons to switch sides or anything, but at the bare minimum it would probably mean Aemond won't try and scare his nephew with Vhaegar or anything.
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Honestly with the show characterization of Aemond I think he'd be impressed and leave him in peace, if not respect him. BookAemond might have just killed him anyway he was a psycho.
 
Okay I'm not gonna live post the show, but I like how Rhaenys first scene is her giving a pretty solid explanation on why she didn't flambé Alicent and Aegon:

Doing so would have instantly started the civil war (without giving anyone time to prepare/negotiate), and quite frankly it's not her war - Rhaenyra's her "daughter in law", but her supposed grandchildren clearly aren't hers, and given she doesn't give two shits about Rhaenyra's claim why should she ignite a war in her name?
 
Arthur Frayn said:
Okay I'm not gonna live post the show, but I like how Rhaenys first scene is her giving a pretty solid explanation on why she didn't flambé Alicent and Aegon:

Doing so would have instantly started the civil war (without giving anyone time to prepare/negotiate), and quite frankly it's not her war - Rhaenyra's her "daughter in law", but her supposed grandchildren clearly aren't hers, and given she doesn't give two shits about Rhaenyra's claim why should she ignite a war in her name?
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And yet she killed hundreds of people?
 
I honestly think we'll have to chalk up the Rhaenys killing the smallfolk up as an show mistake, unless they retcon in an explanation/consequence in later seasons. It was clearly designed as a Cool moment and they didn't think about as much as they should have.
 
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