Holding the Line (Changing Destiny Spinoff)

Point of order: the Fuel Tank joke was Sheo doing a cracky little snip in the mainline story. To the effect of Lindemann (he of the 'don't call Bismarck a 'she', call him a 'he' because no woman can be as powerful as this ship!' sexism) trying to call her breasts 'fuel tanks' and Bisko getting annoyed and trying to make him call them what they are.

It is very much non-canon, if amusing, considering the fact that Mr. Sexist can't even see Bisko in the main story.

Secondly: Do not joke about that. Fuel Tanks are fine and all, but the other stuff? Yeah, no. Hard no. I don't want to drag mods in here.
 
Yay, update! Better yet, it has Roch~ Any story that features Rochester gets my approval ^///^

So, Sydney survived her fight with Kormoran and Perth has not yet experienced the absolute disaster of the ABDA campaign. My Bulli Sense forecast bullying in the future.

Also, Manila appeared to have gotten hammered harder than in the OTL, if Rochester got sunk by the air attack. Since Ryuujo cannot put up enough aircraft to do that, that means it's the forces in Formosa, who have Saburo Sakai in their number.

Wow, I suddenly both want to thank Sakai and strangle him. Maybe I can thank him as I strangle him XD

Rochester is best suited for pulping Japanese troops. As much as I love ACR-2, I'm aware that she's an armored cruiser that predates the Spanish-American War. She would be horrendously outclassed at this point in history, especially since her last refit was decades ago - it modernized her 8" guns but dropped their number down from 6 to 4, replaced the light armament, and ripped out half of her boilers. (I found no sources that covered any changes to her fire control system, so I assume she didn't get a quantum leap in FC equipment.) And her armor, while thick compared to some ships, is old. Roch predates Harvey steel, which served as the prototype for Krupp steel, which is inferior to Class A and Class B armor of the Interwar period. She may take a pounding, but she won't last long.

Lastly, as Sky pointed out, my use of the term "fuel tanks" for a shipgirl's breasts was intended to be a joking euphemism in a non-canon snippet intended for people's amusement. Please don't pick up the concept and, with a fine disregard for SV's rules, run with it to gain momentum for an alarming leap in logic. That violates both the written rules of SV and the spirit espoused by the forum as well as KanColme.

Take it to Questionable Questing or some other forum, if you must. Take this advice from someone who learned his lesson after his playful suggestion of harem antics in Sky's Arcadia fic drew the attention of mods because the characters in question were teens.

Anyway, thank you for an excellent update, Sky. I needed a really good Kancolle read, and this fixes that. I look forward to seeing more of Roch in the future.
 
Also, to answer-without-spoiling: Roch and Utah have similar reasons for self-summoning.
 
Question, if a ship shoots at a ship-girl what happens? Is it like trying to shoot a ship sized target, or is it like trying to shoot a person sized target?
 
Awesome...glad to see this thread resurrected! Wonder if we'll see Fort Drum as well...
 
so does that mean Sidney's captain didn't do a stupid and make her a sitting duck for said commerce raider.

Don't count on it. Sydney met her end before Pearl Harbor, even in this timeline. Never underestimate the consequence of when complacency, inexperience, mismanagement, arrogance and incompetence all around, come together in the person of Captain Joe Burnett, Sydney, and Komoran come together in a perfect crapstorm.
 
Don't count on it. Sydney met her end before Pearl Harbor, even in this timeline. Never underestimate the consequence of when complacency, inexperience, mismanagement, arrogance and incompetence all around, come together in the person of Captain Joe Burnett, Sydney, and Komoran come together in a perfect crapstorm.
Really? I figured thanks to Schreiber's command changing which of the Terrible Twins sank (and when, because IIRC, Gneisenau sank in 1941 in this timeline), Sydney's sinking could have been butterflied away.
 
Really? I figured thanks to Schreiber's command changing which of the Terrible Twins sank (and when, because IIRC, Gneisenau sank in 1941 in this timeline), Sydney's sinking could have been butterflied away.

Actually she didn't. Per this in Chapter 4:
Sydney came home covered in honors, not the least of which was sinking that German raider that tried to get the jump on her.

Bolded and underlined mine. Sydney didn't sink before Pearl in this timeline.
 
What does an extra Leander mean for ABDA and the IJN?

More British warships means ABDA command is more likely to default to British. Which means less foolish pride making futile stands around Java where they could not be afforded.

I just checked Chapter 3 again, and ABDA being under British command is a sure thing if Philips happens to fall overboard and drown, instead of doing this half-assed Leeroy Jenkins impression:


Look it's understandable if you:
1. Go on a death ride to TAKE OUT THE ENEMY TRANSPORTS AND LANDING ZONES
2. Decide to try an end run around the probable enemy submarine line.

But the PROBLEM was that Philips...
1. Did not conduct AA (and other, once the AA ammunition was found defective) gunnery drills before sortieing. Though I think Prince of Wales herself would inform him of the AA ammo problem ITTL, or go through Repulse to inform Tennant, who'd demand AA fire drills that reveal the problem or just report that his AA gunners doing a drill had ammo problems.
2. Decide submarines were scarier (when he was going WAY faster than a Submarine could catch up to) than masses of naval bombers (which were faster than he) and that longer exposure to air attack was fine.
3. Went the long way around instead of killing the enemy transports landing supplies at Kota Bharu first, while he could still get air cover from Kuantan.
4. Chickened out when he had already gone too far, without even trying to call for even token air cover, which would at least have prevented enemy bombers from making attacks at leisure, especially considering his defective AA ammunition.

If you want to gamble your fleet you damned well at least achieve your objectives or have half a wooden nickel of a clue what you're trying to do instead of vacillating!

Here's hoping Leach or Tennant end up in command of ABDA, by a convenient dud bomb squashing Philips on PoW's bridge if need be, if he tries the same lemming train as OTL.

(Note that Chapter 3 is on Dec 7, which means OTL stupidity may still happen as Force Z sailed on the 8th, and MacArthur was just as inept as OTL in letting his planes be caught on the ground despite being alerted about Pearl, ugh...)
 
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Well, if Hart stays, then there would probably be more survivors. He favored keeping his ships, while the Dutch Admiral was trying to defend Java. If a Brit takes control, I think they would prioritize defending Singapore, and if they can't hold it, the Indian Ocean.
 
Sydney came home covered in honors, not the least of which was sinking that German raider that tried to get the jump on her.

Honors for Sydney whupping up on a clapped-out freighter armed with bolted on deck guns and torpedo tubes and no mention of the time she was a legit badass, taking on two Italian cruisers, crippling one and badly damaging another? No mention of her battle honors for Cape Spada?

 
Perth is being bitter and sniping at her sister, even in her internal thoughts.
 
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By favorable, I would say close range, while having the broadside of her target. If she was caught out at sea, I don't expect her to fair well, as she is outgunned, and outrun by pretty much anything. And her beating a Kongou seems highly unlikely (though possible.)

Also note that those penetration are for older belt armor (so a grain of salt should be taken with it).

I'm pretty certain that she can eat human food, seeing as Gniesnau has been running around as a human for a while now.

And if she eats a torpedo, she's fucked. A Type 93 will open her hull up like a can, plus a 14-inch torpedo? That's a Howell, it won't miss and it'll probably work, but 100-pounds of wet guncotton is pretty anemic. As for the guns, yeah that armor penetration is for Harvey Armor not Krupp Cemented Armor, but Navweps also mentions that at 9,000 yards those guns could penetrate 4.4-inches of Krupp nickel-chromium armor.
 
I realize I should have stated that Rochester needs the initiative in order to win. Besides, we saw with Blucher how even old torpedoes can still hit like a truck. Also, part of me wonders if those torpedo have been removed or not.
 
I mean... torpedoes are one of the nastiest weapons to defend against for a ship, because heavier plating is counterproductive, and the only effective means of defense is space. A TDS system's effectiveness has an almost linear relationship with how deep it is, with designs maximizing or minimizing the effectiveness of that depth.
 
I mean... torpedoes are one of the nastiest weapons to defend against for a ship, because heavier plating is counterproductive, and the only effective means of defense is space. A TDS system's effectiveness has an almost linear relationship with how deep it is, with designs maximizing or minimizing the effectiveness of that depth.

Not helping matters is the fact that the Type 93 has one of the biggest torpedo warheads around. Which makes it harder to defend against because of the sheer size of its payload. Rochester eats one abreast of say her forward turret, I wouldn't be surprised if the torpedo amputates her bow.

I realize I should have stated that Rochester needs the initiative in order to win. Besides, we saw with Blucher how even old torpedoes can still hit like a truck. Also, part of me wonders if those torpedo have been removed or not.

More than likely, the Howell Torpedo was quickly replaced by the faster and harder hitting Whitehead Torpedo which wouldn't fit in her tubes.
 
Thor, the context of my statement was the old torpedo that sunk Blucher. Not modern torpedos such as the Type 93,91,95, Mark 13,14,15, etc. My point is that it does not take very much at all of a torpedo to do devastating damage to subcapital ships. The highest-rated TDS I've found on a sub-capital ship is the Myoko and Takao classes, with a TDS rated for a 200 pound blast - a far cry from even the notoriously weak South Dakota and Iowa classes' ~550 pound rating. (The issues here are complex, suffice to say an idea was not as good as it appeared on first glance, and let us stay on topic.)

Though to be fair, the IJN only intended those ships' TDS to mitigate the effects of a torpedo hit, it is nonetheless an indication of the sheer room needed for an effective TDS.
 
I dare say that an 1890-era design isn't going to be able to bully anything heavier than a DD, unless the MSSB really leans on the scales.

Still, I have always loved those Great White Fleet-era USN designs, so I love having this Yorkie/Sara/Roaster join the story!
 
Chapter 5
Chapter 5
USS Rochester had gained something of a reputation, in her time in the Philippines. She had long ago become something of a local landmark, nay, a tourist attraction. Anyone who sailed or walked by Cavite could see her sitting there. Silently rusting away as the last remnant of a forgotten era. At least she still looked imposing, with her high sides and bristling with guns that no one had bothered removing. She wasn't ever going to sail again and it was probably only a matter of time until someone got the bright idea to remove her weapons and scrap her. Until then? She was the Old Lady of Cavite.

Funny, how much things can change in a single day. Even as I die, I can't really complain about it. It is quite nice to be able to talk and do something again!

Of course, the Old Lady was getting a new reputation now. She couldn't help but smile at the way the Army officer next to her squirmed in his seat. "There's no need to be shy, dear. I won't hurt you."

"I'm not worried about you, ma'am." The young man replied, perhaps on instinct. He seemed so nervous he wasn't aware of what he was actually saying, when he continued. "In all honesty, I'm worried about the General. He...doesn't take kindly to interruptions. With the islands going to hell, I don't think he really wants to talk to anyone right now. Certainly not anyone from the Navy."

"Perhaps we should change that, then." Rochester sighed softly. "If he had worked with the Navy properly, we wouldn't be in this situation. Certainly we may have still had a way to keep the Japanese from landing or supplying their troops."

What she didn't say, was that she hated seeing the people of her adopted homeland suffering as they were.

To his credit, the Army man didn't deny her point. He just shook his head, "I can't say you're wrong, ma'am. I've got friends fighting on the front and they..."

"They're suffering and wish that we hadn't let the Japanese land at all."

The man's wince answered more than any words could ever have done. Rochester could only shake her head sadly. That, at least, was as much the fault of the Navy as of MacArthur. Even rusting away in Cavite as she had been, Rochester had heard. She'd heard the submarines and destroyers complaining about torpedoes that they didn't trust. About how they didn't possibly have enough ships to fight if a War came. No one had expected it so soon, though. The Japanese had fooled them all.

"Don't worry about that, dear." Rochester blew out a soft breath, placing her hand on the young officer's. She didn't care much about personal space, really. Not now. "I promise you, I fully intend to be out there fighting. If I can do even a little bit to help, I will. I won't let everyone fight in vain. This is my home, after all."

"It's a relief to hear that. You'll have to forgive me if I don't know how you can fight, though." The Army man pulled his hand away, but he didn't protest the gesture. "Well, I can't complain about it. I want to be out there myself." Sending a weak smile her way, the officer got to his feet and walked over to the door. He took up position beside it, and nodded back at the cruiser. "I think the General is almost done."

Rochester returned the smile, and forced her hands back in her lap. She had to look the image of a 'prim and proper' woman, as the door did swing open. A handful of harried looking Army officers rushed out and split into multiple directions. Behind them, the imposing form of Douglas MacArthur.

"So. You're the woman who wanted to talk?" The General was every bit as blunt as his reputation said, his pipe not remotely messing with his voice. Even so, he took it out and held it in one hand, using the other to hold the door open. "Come on in, then. I don't have the time to waste on useless formalities."

Smoothing her skirt, Rochester climbed to her feet and nodded at the General. "A man of action, then. We will need that."

Out of the corner of her eye, as she walked into the office, Rochester saw the barest hint of a smile tug at the General's lips. She smiled herself, as the door slammed shut behind her. Perhaps, perhaps, this meeting may actually be productive. She could only hope.

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"Right. I wouldn't have bothered meeting you here, if I didn't think it was worth it." MacArthur was quick to the point, placing his hands on the table between himself and Rochester. His pipe lay atop a map of Luzon, with the ever-fluctuating lines marked in red and blue. "You're very lucky that I still get reports from Pearl. The name 'Utah' ring any bells?"

Rochester frowned, lightly. "I know of her, yes. I can't say I ever met her in person. Is there a reason I need to know about her?"

In response, MacArthur placed a photo on the table. Rochester blinked, and looked down on the photo. A pretty woman stared back, with bandages around her head. It wouldn't have seemed that special...were it not for the turrets spread around her. Only one was what the cruiser would have expected from a battleship, even if it was missing guns. The remainder were all more befitting of a destroyer, even if the shape was also unfamiliar. It didn't really matter what kind of guns they were, anyway. What mattered, was the guns and turrets had been scaled down to fit the size of the woman herself.

A woman staring at her, it felt like.

"...this is Utah, isn't it?" Rochester breathed, even though she already knew the answer. She didn't need to look up, to feel General MacArthur's eyes boring into her. "I'm not the first one to come back like this? I never would have thought someone else had...how did she...?" Muttering as much to herself as to the General, Rochester ran her finger over the bandages on Utah's face. "What happened to her?"

"That's what I would like to know." MacArthur grunted, drawing Rochester's attention away from the photo. The General met her gaze, eyes narrowed to flints. "No one at Pearl can tell me a damn thing about it. That is why I was willing to entertain this meeting. You're just like her. Or am I wrong?"

"I...assume so?" With another frown, the armored cruiser looked back down at Utah. She seemed the same, but...

Taking her answer as a positive, MacArthur picked up his pipe again and used it to gesture at the map. "If you are like her, I'm lead to believe you can use all of the weapons you once had. Correct?"

Rochester shrugged in response, "I don't see why I can't. I haven't had a reason to try, but I know I can bring my weapons to me. It is..." Biting her lip, she brought a hand up and started to roll a lock of red hair between her fingers. She didn't even realize she was doing it. "I can hardly explain it, in all honesty. It is a feeling that isn't human. I can feel another limb that I need to focus on moving, is the closest I could describe it. It is not something easy to do, but I think I could do it if I wanted to."

I desperately want to. I have never regretted the life I lead. However...I can't imagine not fighting now. Letting the Japanese destroy my home without at least trying to fight back.

"If that's the case, I have quite a few missions for you." MacArthur drawled, pointing down at the map. "Admiral Hart refuses to send any heavy units against the Japanese landings. Are you willing to fight those bastards, or are you going to go hide as well?" The dislike for his Navy counterpart was very clear in the General's face, a scowl taking shape around the pipe in his mouth. "My boys are giving them hell, but we can't do a damn thing against the landings with the Air Corps gutted like it is."

"Why don't we have any air support?" Rochester asked the obvious question, tilting her head to the side in confusion. "I am hardly familiar with how aircraft can be used in combat, though I've heard they were what sank me. If they can hit Cavite like that, shouldn't our own planes be even better?"

After all, the American planes had to be superior to the Japanese ones. Rochester's entire life, the Japanese had been far behind the Americans. Even when they had those fancy battlecruisers, the United States could have built something better. It was how she lived her life. Even when she was obsolete, new ships were constantly coming by the Philippines that reminded her that the Navy she loved would always be superior to the Japanese. With that in mind, was it that hard to believe that the American planes were better too? Not for her.

She still didn't miss the cloud of anger falling on MacArthur's face. Or the way he pulled his pipe from his lips and clenched down hard enough on it that the wood creaked. Perhaps she had said the wrong thing?

"Our planes were caught napping on the ground." The General bit out, turning his angry gaze towards a window and at a cloudy sky. He didn't bother acknowledging Rochester's look of concern. No. All his attention was on a forgotten argument. "I wasn't informed of any sort of air attacks. I would have authorized an attack on Formosa the moment the attack on Pearl reached me, if my Air Corps commander had gotten in contact. He did not." Slamming a hand on the table, MacArthur turned his gaze back to Rochester. "So, no, you will not expect air support. What little we have has already been withdrawn to Australia."

"I...see." Rochester blinked, and shook her head. Right, don't mention that around MacArthur again. She was sure there was a story there, too, because she couldn't imagine someone being that incompetent. Even if they were Army. "I am sorry, General, but I would not be able to attack the landings. I'm not certain if my hull still functions the same way. If the Japanese can still attack me as if I were a proper warship, I would be no match for what they likely have now."

No matter her opinion of Japanese planes compared to American, or modern ships compared to modern ships, Rochester knew she was a relic of a past age. She'd almost been obsolete when she launched. Forget now, half-a-century later. She couldn't hope to stand up to a modern cruiser of any navy. She was too slow, her armor was too old, and her guns...maybe...

"However, I should be able to deny Manila Harbor. If I can get close without them noticing..." Rochester started to mumble to herself, her hand returning to her hair as she paced around the table. Plans and maps were drawn up in her head, her crew seeming to be in perfect sync with her. Somehow. "...perhaps I can deal with a cruiser, if my guns are fired at close range. I would need to be careful of torpedoes and return fire but..."

MacArthur coughed, prompting the cruiser to stop her pacing. "Can you fire your weapons on land?"

"...that is a very good question."

"We will need to test that at our first opportunity, if you're convinced you can't contest the landings." The General pinched his brow, blowing out a frustrated breath. His eyes looked down at the map, and then at the cruiser. "Those Japanese bastards wouldn't know what hit them, if we could get eight-inch guns on the front. My boys wouldn't say no to that kind of support, no matter that it was coming from a woman that used to be a warship."

"I am still a warship." Rochester felt like pointing out, though she let her finger drop when the General sent her a distinctly unimpressed look.

Shaking his head, MacArthur continued speaking, "Even if we can't send you directly to the front, having naval support may make it possible to hold at Baatan. I already have supplies being moved there." Pointing at the aforementioned location on the map, he grunted in annoyance. "It galls me to contemplate retreat. I am not a man who enjoys falling back, or admitting defeat. I am the better of any Japanese commander, but Washington and Hart have tied both my hands behind my back."

"The Admiral is probably being held back just like you are, if I can speak freely." Rochester felt the need to defend the man that would have been her commanding officer, were her old hull in any condition to fight. "I'm certain he would be fighting just as hard if he had the resources. I know it."

"Be that as it may," MacArthur showed no signs of caring. He just continued to look angry. "Hart is a coward who refuses to attack the landings. You are the only part of the Navy I trust, and that will only last so long as you can fight the Japanese. Do you think you can at least do that, even if just in Manila Bay?"

Rochester felt a hint of anger and annoyance under her own placid exterior, but she didn't rise to the bait. MacArthur was, for better or worse, her superior officer. She imagined that Admiral Hart couldn't be bothered by 'wild rumors' about her existence. For now, she was subordinated to the Army. It hardly mattered if she could fight on land or was limited to the harbor and Bay. She'd fight regardless. What the General failed to understand, was that the Philippines were her home as much as they were any native of the islands. She would die, again, to protect them. It would take a direct order from Washington to make her even think about leaving.

So she just squared her shoulders beneath her thin dress, slicked some of her graying red hair back from her eyes, and gave the General a sharp salute. Forget regulations, she needed to make a point.

"I won't disappoint you, General MacArthur. You have my promise that I will do everything I can to fight the Japanese. If I can do anything to support the Army, I'll do it. I won't let them take the Islands without a fight!"

For the first time, MacArthur gave a genuine smile. A small one that barely reached his eyes. But a smile nonetheless.

"Outstanding, sailor. I want you to talk with the men on the ground and start figuring out what your limits are. The sooner we can get you on the front, the sooner we can show those bastards they made the wrong choice in fighting Douglas MacArthur."



Difficult, this one. As per usual with writing the bigger historic figures. MacArthur is a...difficult one. It's very easy to slip into the classic 'egotistical asshole' side of him, which wouldn't really be inaccurate. At the same time, he did care about the Philippines in his own way. So...yeah. Hopefully this worked well enough.

Couldn't help putting in the bits of his arrogance and disdain for the Navy, plus how he deflects blame for the Air Corps getting caught with its pants down. He did both of those IRL, too. Just the way MacArthur was.
 
I always thought W.E.B. Griffin did a good job with old 'El Softo Soapo' in the Corps series. Glad to see a MacA in a similar vein...
 
I've heard it said that old MacArthur is one of those interesting generals. His ego and his strategic acum can lead to massive success... or critical failure. One or the other, with little in between.
 
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