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Hazredous Interruptions - HunterS

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Mega1987 said:
btw, Eleventh...
can you refresh us all if the Nanoha cast managed to acquire their semblence and what they are?
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If I remember correctly back in HI: Signum got a flame shroud and Amy something between Aura to Aura Telepathy and an Aura user strategic datalink. Everyone else hadn't noticeably unlocked theirs before they went went back to standard combat magic and Vita, Zafira and Shamal explicitly didn't have theirs for the Vytal Festival.

joe6168 said:
I may be (and probably am) misremembering, but doesn't using a unison device allow for some degree of mixing between aura and belkin/midchildan magic styles?
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Pyrra had a massively boosted versions of her semblance when in Unison, but it wasn't totally clear whether she effectively has something very like Polarity as a Rare Skill when using Belkan magic or if Rein was translating it. I think the former based on the Year 4, Day 161 note and Weiss' comments in HI-H chapter 1. Reinforce did had to spend time seeing how Polarity worked with Belkan magic and that is probably a longer process if you don't have a Unison Device doing the math (Ruby didn't have hers when using Bardiche).

Pyrra's Aura was rebuilding and healing her during Unison however. She didn't take enough damage for us to find out if it was also an active defense under her Knight's Armour.
 
Mega1987 said:
btw, Eleventh...
can you refresh us all if the Nanoha cast managed to acquire their semblence and what they are?

if it's under the spoiler territory... you dont have to answer if you wish.
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IIRC, Signum can surround herself in an aura (har har) that can set things on fire, and Amy has some sort of telepathy Semblance.

e: nuts, beaten.
 
11thMessenger said:
Of course, introduction of Aura changes some of this dynamic, because now she -can- be an effective close range/melee combatant in ways that most mages aren't ready to counter.
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So is it fair to say that Aura helps mages like Hayate more than it does those like Signum? In that Signum was already very effective at close range, and the degree to which Aura increases that effectiveness is probably less than the degree that Hayate benefits from the added versatility and safety.
 
Tempist said:
So is it fair to say that Aura helps mages like Hayate more than it does those like Signum? In that Signum was already very effective at close range, and the degree to which Aura increases that effectiveness is probably less than the degree that Hayate benefits from the added versatility and safety.
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That is very fair to say, yes! In a standard/typical combat scenario, a skilled, high rank Belkan Knight's (specifically, those that use Armed Devices) ability to fight will not be grossly affected by having access to Aura, as they have spells that will accomplish much the same without sacrificing the ability to cast ranged attacks. Hayate, however, does not use an Armed Device, and sucks at close combat in general, so having the option to switch to Aura and engage in melee drastically improves her tactical effectiveness.

Most Mid-childan mages are going to be in a similar boat to Hayate, but by no means all of them. As we know, Fate is a very effective close-range combatant, up to the point of being comfortable in melee range, and Nanoha is just freaking crazy and will bludgeon someone with Raising Heart's Accel mode if absolutely necessary.

The place where having access to Aura really shines is when you're fighting in something like an AMF field and you don't have the raw power to brute force it, such as dealing with Gadgets or inside the Saint's Cradle. Or, more pertinently to HI, on Remnant.

Re: Nanoha cast members and their Semblances? That will be revealed in time. (Read as: I haven't finished thinking them out.)
 
Canonically Two have shown up- Amy's psychic communication and Signum's Cold Angry Flames. Yuuno's aura-defense planes Might be a Semblance, it's far more likely that he's doing the same basic trick that Ren did against the King Taijutu back in V1.
 
Dahak said:
I suspect the second should be Commander Schnee. Unless she's been promoted or heavily demoted in the intervening period.
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11thMessenger said:
Oh, right. I forgot to respond to your comment regarding Winter's rank. The way I figure it, is that she's been promoted to full Captain for several reasons: One, it makes her the highest ranking Atlesian military officer on board The Four Seasons. Second, The Four Seasons is a cruiser deployed on patrol/investigative missions, instead of standard combat. On a standard combat ship you see a more traditional pyramid layout of rank in the personnel, which keeps the chain of command clear and easy to understand (hence why the operations leader on the Ifrit was only a Commander while Chrono was a Captain on the Arthra). On an Investigative cruiser, you have a greater number of higher rank field personnel, because they have to make split-second decisions in the field and the rank gives them the authority to do so.
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Minor nitpick here, at sea, when someone is in command of a vessel, they are called 'Captain' regardless of their actual rank.

So actually Winter's title wasn't quite as inconsistent as you thought. Or maybe it was a bit more inconsistent. Either or.

Glad to see this starting back up! Looking forward to more!
 
11thMessenger said:
The problem Hayate has with casting is both her ability to target what she's doing, and the speed at which she can draw from her Linker Core. Hayate has a -huge- reservoir of magic, more so than any other main character, and the amount of power she can actually hold in a spell structure without losing control is likewise extremely large. The problem is it takes her too long to pull magic from her reservoir to fill the spell construct.

If Nanoha has a reservoir the size of, say, a 5 gallon bucket, and she's casting Divine Buster, which is, say, a Pint glass, she's using a 1-cup scoop to fill the pint glass for casting. Hayate may have a 55 gallon drum for a reservoir, and her Buster equivalent might be a two-liter bottle, but she's filling the damned thing with a teaspoon. It takes her way too long to build up enough power to be effective as a tactical weapon. Strategically, she's a powerful asset.

Of course, introduction of Aura changes some of this dynamic, because now she -can- be an effective close range/melee combatant in ways that most mages aren't ready to counter.
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Is Hayate's imbalance a reflection of her own inherent potential versus the power left to her by the original Reinforce?

Or is this kind of variation natural? That would raise the question of how Nanoha and Fate compare to each other, as well as the likes of Chrono, Yuuno, Arf, each of the Wolkenritter...

But also, I would have thought Hayate was supposed to be even more magically talented than Nanoha inherently, and that is why the book chose her; because she would have enough power to sustain it even if it needed to feed off her alone until it unlocked. That feeding is why she was lame and sick.
 
Sunder the Gold said:
But also, I would have thought Hayate was supposed to be even more magically talented than Nanoha inherently, and that is why the book chose her; because she would have enough power to sustain it even if it needed to feed off her alone until it unlocked. That feeding is why she was lame and sick.
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The problem as I understand it is the book drawing on her, etc trained Hayate's linker core throughput without training her fine control. And so when she actually comes to learn magic she has all the linked mana she could uses and a wide variety of spells but the sheer power she started with made directing it difficult. And thus we see her using arias a lot rather than just the names of spells when casting.

Unlike say Nanoha who trained both together and thus found fine control easier to learn and thus can make spells fit together faster.

Thus Hayate would have to go through the whole
Darkness beyond the twilight, crimson blood that flows.
Buried in the flow of time.
In thy great name, I pledge myself to darkness.
All the unwary who stand in our way shall be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
routine to get the magic to line up the right ways, whereas Nanoha could load a couple of cartridges and just skip to
DRAGON SLAVE! :whistle:

The only direct comparison we have is Teana can cast a multi target Starlight Breaker faster than Nanoha as of Vivid. Chrono of course relies on a Storage device so he can squeeze out as high a speed as possible to make up for his low mana levels, everyone else other than Hayate appears to believe the trade off of speed for intelligent assistance for using Armed and Intelligent devices is worthwhile. Hayate other than Rein appears to be incapable of using anything less resilient than an overbuilt storage device (In HI we found out that is a modified cruiser secondary weapon.) due to excessive power (That was also the reason ID didn't much use cartridges before A's).
 
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I just can't believe that anyone in TSAB space doesn't know that Earth is under constant observation due to its habit of occasionally spitting out stupidly powerful mages and random interdimensional disasters despite the average inhabitant having all the magical talent of a particularly boring rock.

I mean, Nanoha and Hayate are kind of celebrities, and Gil Graham probably was too in his time. Plus the inevitable magitech-TV shows about all the weird things Earthlings do to get by in a world where almost everyone is stuck using Einsteinian physics.
 
The Sandman said:
I just can't believe that anyone in TSAB space doesn't know that Earth is under constant observation due to its habit of occasionally spitting out stupidly powerful mages and random interdimensional disasters despite the average inhabitant having all the magical talent of a particularly boring rock.
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How was Hayate not found by TSAB before the book was unleashed, then? First they ever heard of her was her wolkwnritter munching on some TSAB Mage in the area. I wonder how she didn't notice all the jewel seed events going on either, for that matter...
 
Mizu said:
How was Hayate not found by TSAB before the book was unleashed, then? First they ever heard of her was her wolkwnritter munching on some TSAB Mage in the area. I wonder how she didn't notice all the jewel seed events going on either, for that matter...
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That was Graham keeping her way under the radar, and considering than an admiral got a lot of power he probably influenced the early warning systems that were installed after he discovered that Hayate became the next mistress of the Book of Darkness in order to control the incident. It was simply bad luck that a completely different S-Class threat decided to intercept the jewel seeds in the same sector of the dimensional sea therefore giving the TSAB a local presence beyond his control. As for how Hayate never saw the Jewel Seed incident? She had an unexplainable crippling chronic illness, even as cheeful as she is that probably consumed all of her attention and not even a giant dust bunny outside her house would have registered.
 
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Mizu said:
How was Hayate not found by TSAB before the book was unleashed, then? First they ever heard of her was her wolkwnritter munching on some TSAB Mage in the area. I wonder how she didn't notice all the jewel seed events going on either, for that matter...
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Same reason they never noticed Nanoha before the Jewel Seed incident? Earth is at the very edge of their patrolled space. Before the Arthra's visit, I doubt any TSAB ship had been in the area since they stumbed upon Graham.
 
A really interesting question would be if they performed magical surveys after A's, between Nanoha and Hayate they have two really high level mages in the same city, which represents a small part of Japan and an even smaller percentage of the global population. With that kind of sample there should be at least ten times as many B mages in Uminari alone, and that's a really tempting resourse if they can bypass the First Contact protocols to recruit people.
 
BF110C4 said:
A really interesting question would be if they performed magical surveys after A's, between Nanoha and Hayate they have two really high level mages in the same city, which represents a small part of Japan and an even smaller percentage of the global population. With that kind of sample there should be at least ten times as many B mages in Uminari alone, and that's a really tempting resourse if they can bypass the First Contact protocols to recruit people.
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The only other two people in the Uminari area that are not excluded as per programming from the Dimensional Barriers used for 'magical containment/duel' are Arisa Bannings and Suzuka Tsukimura (seen in the final episoded of As, when the city-spanning Barrier made by Reinforce Eins was casted), so more likely than not they are the only ones with Mid-based magical potential.
 
MWKillKenny84 said:
The only other two people in the Uminari area that are not excluded as per programming from the Dimensional Barriers used for 'magical containment/duel' are Arisa Bannings and Suzuka Tsukimura (seen in the final episoded of As, when the city-spanning Barrier made by Reinforce Eins was casted), so more likely than not they are the only ones with Mid-based magical potential.
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That's debatable given that the superhuman, borderline supernatural ninja background of Nanoha's family is in effect in the background. It's entirely possible that there were more people with magical talent but were actually schooled in local practices which would almost certainly have a strong focus on hiding which might be enough to have them excluded from the barriers.

There's also a lot of fuzziness on the whole thing about how potential and realized magical talent works and this story has thrown even more fuzziness into it with Aura and the fact that it can awaken an apparent null like Amy and give her a functional - if weak - linker core.
 
Canis said:
That's debatable given that the superhuman, borderline supernatural ninja background of Nanoha's family is in effect in the background. It's entirely possible that there were more people with magical talent but were actually schooled in local practices which would almost certainly have a strong focus on hiding which might be enough to have them excluded from the barriers.

There's also a lot of fuzziness on the whole thing about how potential and realized magical talent works and this story has thrown even more fuzziness into it with Aura and the fact that it can awaken an apparent null like Amy and give her a functional - if weak - linker core.
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That made me think of a weird idea. What would happen if the Ninja members of Nanoha's family got into the fun that Nanoha has been a part of? I mean, even Amy got an Aura like that, so...

@11thMessenger Idle idea, but how did Nanoha's Ninja side of the family react to Nanoha awakening her Aura? Once she got home after her time on Remnant?
 
Atreidestrooper said:
Idle idea, but how did Nanoha's Ninja side of the family react to Nanoha awakening her Aura?
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I imagine tbey were relieved to hear she learned a way to make herself more durable so they wouldnt have to worry as much about her getting hurt. But, at the same time, also concerned about the risks shed now be willing to take.
 
Crazael said:
I imagine tbey were relieved to hear she learned a way to make herself more durable so they wouldnt have to worry as much about her getting hurt. But, at the same time, also concerned about the risks shed now be willing to take.
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Well, I was thinking of something one step sideways; like, would they allow her to join in their spars? They know that Nanoha has a layer for close combat now, after all.
 
What could really throw things for a loop is if Earth places of similar 'Wild' talent independently developed Aura activation outside of the experiences/experiments Salem attempted on Remnant. After all, we have old age of hero tropes and legendary super-ninjas in our culture anyway, who's to say they might not have a basis in story canon?
 
Atreidestrooper said:
That made me think of a weird idea. What would happen if the Ninja members of Nanoha's family got into the fun that Nanoha has been a part of? I mean, even Amy got an Aura like that, so...

@11thMessenger Idle idea, but how did Nanoha's Ninja side of the family react to Nanoha awakening her Aura? Once she got home after her time on Remnant?
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Crazael said:
I imagine tbey were relieved to hear she learned a way to make herself more durable so they wouldnt have to worry as much about her getting hurt. But, at the same time, also concerned about the risks shed now be willing to take.
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Atreidestrooper said:
Well, I was thinking of something one step sideways; like, would they allow her to join in their spars? They know that Nanoha has a layer for close combat now, after all.
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I would say they'd be tickled god damned pink by her new close-combat options and durability, and there wouldn't be any concern at all about her taking 'new' risks with them. Mainly because she's Nanoha, and she's going to be taking those risks regardless. Regarding their willingness to spar with her now? ...her sister might back down, but Kyouya and Shiro would both be all over that shit. ...and likely still beat her six ways to Sunday. Shit, Shiro could probably take Pyrrha, especially if he's 'sandbagging' and only uses a bokken.
 
11thMessenger said:
I would say they'd be tickled god damned pink by her new close-combat options and durability, and there wouldn't be any concern at all about her taking 'new' risks with them. Mainly because she's Nanoha, and she's going to be taking those risks regardless. Regarding their willingness to spar with her now? ...her sister might back down, but Kyouya and Shiro would both be all over that shit. ...and likely still beat her six ways to Sunday. Shit, Shiro could probably take Pyrrha, especially if he's 'sandbagging' and only uses a bokken.
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Just to note; while Miyuki was the slowest growing one of her kin, she is noted as the most potentially talented in the TH3 timeline.
This is because her parents were the best in the clan, with Shirou being second best; Miyuki's hang up in TH3 was it being an Eugenics thing, but it was the opposite; both her parents kicked away all attempts at Eugenics because they loved each other too much.
(This reminds me of Dune, but I digress.)

If that proves true here, that means she might go test Signum instead, if we go by your reckoning.
 
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