Halkegenia Online Thread 22 - Kill Sheffield Vol. 2

[Exsequens]

Only problem is that it makes the battle a little one sided.

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True.

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Maybe after the black pearl was dislodged Cardinal added a bunch of additional patches to it as a way of ensuring any Fae using it won't go OP? Which unfortunately also affects Octavia when she's using the Abyssal Tiara?

Like a timer? Say maybe Octavia can re-activate her giant mermaid form, but for a short amount of time, not enough to be a game-changer, but enough to be classified under 'strategic asset'.

Then Asuna can keep the pearl and Octavia as a hard-counter to Reconquista's ultra-heavy weapons or equipment? Say a big carrier that's heavily guarded from all except below, well, apply one Octavia and watch the deep-strike make driftwood and dragon chops out of them. Or stuff that needs immediate destroying ASAP and the Dragoons are needed elsewhere, when your flying artillery isn't enough, bring in the biggest gun available.

Not necessarily as depending on the range of Octavia's attack the fleet could could lose a few ships from the surprise attack then scramble for height or distance inland. Basically the fleet has to charge right into the teeth of Freelia's defenses or fly up out of range, move over the island and then drop.

Sure it would put the fleet in a horrible position either way but Octavia wouldn't be an instant fleet kill.

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Or, yeah, this.

Everyone thought Tavi was Magikarp.

Then Reconquista found out that she was Gyarados.

She could always arrive fashionably late. Just as everything seems hopeless.... SUDDENLY OCTAVIA OUT OF NOWHERE!!!

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You're sure she's not a Feebas that wants to be the regal Milotic? Cause' from my experience Milotic can very well still throw down with a Gyarados and win.

 

[Triggerhappy]

btw, the hyper beam was fucking awesome.

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I was actually basing it on the leviathan for. Atlantis the lost empire.

 

[Anzer'ke]

Maybe after the black pearl was dislodged Cardinal added a bunch of additional patches to it as a way of ensuring any Fae using it won't go OP? Which unfortunately also affects Octavia when she's using the Abyssal Tiara?

Like a timer? Say maybe Octavia can re-activate her giant mermaid form, but for a short amount of time, not enough to be a game-changer, but enough to be classified under 'strategic asset'.

Then Asuna can keep the pearl and Octavia as a hard-counter to Reconquista's ultra-heavy weapons or equipment? Say a big carrier that's heavily guarded from all except below, well, apply one Octavia and watch the deep-strike make driftwood and dragon chops out of them. Or stuff that needs immediate destroying ASAP and the Dragoons are needed elsewhere, when your flying artillery isn't enough, bring in the biggest gun available.



Or, yeah, this.



You're sure she's not a Feebas that wants to be the regal Milotic? Cause' from my experience Milotic can very well still throw down with a Gyarados and win.

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eh, I still think it works best if Octavia just keeps to a hands off allegiance with Tristain. Her coming to Alfheim's aid if the land itself is threatened is one thing, her defending the kingdom of Tristain however just seems out of character.

Not to mention, having the Border Bosses stay hands off is far more interesting than having them actively intervening in anything.

 

[Exsequens]

eh, I still think it works best if Octavia just keeps to a hands off allegiance with Tristain. Her coming to Alfheim's aid if the land itself is threatened is one thing, her defending the kingdom of Tristain however just seems out of character.

Not to mention, having the Border Bosses stay hands off is far more interesting than having them actively intervening in anything.

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I do agree that Border Bosses sticking to their roles as guardians is more interesting than being guardians of Tristain, which they of course aren't.

The exception to this rule for me however is Octavia, when she decided she wanted to make her own intervention at the Ragdorian Lake, she stopped being in the 'staying out of Fae affairs' club.

However, IMO she shouldn't be a guardian of Tristain still, but rather that she's on no one's side but Asuna's side (Just that Asuna's objective coincides with Tristain's objectives.), and if Asuna needs an obstacle removed and maybe Octavia is coincidentally the best answer to the situation, maybe she can be convinced to chime in to help, possibly in her own tsundere way.

"I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing this because I want to blow off some steam."

 

[KaPe]

eh, I still think it works best if Octavia just keeps to a hands off allegiance with Tristain. Her coming to Alfheim's aid if the land itself is threatened is one thing, her defending the kingdom of Tristain however just seems out of character.

Not to mention, having the Border Bosses stay hands off is far more interesting than having them actively intervening in anything.

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I can only agree with this. It was already bad enough with the memetic (and I hope it still is such) idea that Bishop would instantly destroy anyone threatening the place. Adding more bosses to the mix just makes it worse.

There's a point where any tension starts to evaporate, since what can Reconquista even do against such monsters? Rely on absurd plot conveniences and Fae becoming braindead in crucial moments? Pull some superweapons out of their/Sheffield's ass? If it's supposed to be a curbstomp, then we wouldn't waste so much time setting them up as a legitimate threat only to introduce absurdly powerful allies to the Fae that can defeat any invasion force easily.

 

[thesage2600]

So...What is Ban-chan and Bardiche's thoughts on meeting the entire Kirigaya family now? I can see neither of them knowing that they are the badass celebrities they are until Ban-chan starts telling one of her friends about Yui's parents, Asuna and Kirito, and them having a heart attack (seriously, outside of the Fae Lords, the Kirigayas have got be the biggest celebrities being containing two of the biggest badasses, a virtual prodigy, and a watch officer who is quickly going through the ranks - not to mention most people don't actually have a family so...).

As for Tavi, I'm kind of hoping that giant Octavia can only be used for short amounts of time if she allies, and the form she'll have to stick with most often is her Undine-esque Asuna form.

I can totally see Tavi thinking of herself as Asuna's daughter but in a college student sort of way - doesn't live or really depend on "mom" but comes to visit often enough. Kirito will be her stepdad that she awkwardly realizes she tried to seduce from mom...

 

[Skychan]

Jwolfe, I think that you are going to have to start putting the index in drop down menus.

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Actually you could just put them in titled spoiler menus.

 

[Alfa290]

Unfortunately, Tristain doesn't really have the forces to go on the offensive right now. They're just now training their levies, while Albion has veterans from the rebellion and a shitton of mercs and more questionable allies like the Orcs. They'll probably get there, but fighting the defensive is their best, if not only, choice right now.

And Dunkirk would have been the same if Tristain had lost.
(Un)Fortunately, Cromwell's given his orders, and he wants to give what they got. We know it's going to be a bloody disaster ending in Reconquista's defeat, but it's still going to be bloody for both sides and Cromwell's fixated enough to not listen to those that do know better. And I doubt the Shiori making a mess will help change his mind either. 'Burn them for burning us'.

As for PR, Reconquista's actually got a decent counter with the whole 'they're constructs' bit, especially with the Zae. Or, at least they do until there's more face-to-face interaction between the rest of the fae and people who don't listen to Cromwell blindly or the Zae start going the same way as whatever's happened to Aki.

Edit: That said, if I were him I'd probably have gone after Cadenza. It's one of the three cities closest to the coast, with Freelia and Slyvain. There're no beasts, no walls, it's inhabited by one of the races not thought of for fighting prowess, and in all honesty it'd probably be easier to burn to the ground (and rebuild) since it's a city of circus tents.

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As Mahrac said Tristain literally can't attack Albion right now. Their fleet (with the new 'additions' from Dunkik ) is potentially strong enough to beat off an invasion but not enough to attack and succeed.

The idea is to turtle for now while building up forces and incorporating the advanced weapons they have been designing. And while normally a defensive war is a bad idea considering their opposition it'll work. Remember Reconquista is as much a religious movement/crusade as it is a government. The leadership needs to show that they are moving forward with the whole 'unite Halkeginia to attack the elves' thing (and crusaders get annoyed when their crusade can't get anywhere).

However to do that they need a foot on the mainland and Tristain is basically the only place weak enough to attack. Observations by Dunwell and Blake indicate that the leadership isn't the best/arguing and things are already starting to fall apart to varying degrees. If Tristain manages to constantly push back their offenses and even launch raids it's going to get worse for them.

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Okay, I concede the point that going on the offense at this time is not an option. However, Tristain needs to hold the initiative and momentum. So are they going to have Mortimer play the role of Hannibal with Cromwell being the Varro?

On the Zae, the people who come into contact with them know they are unnatural. It's been stated multiple times that Dunwell's men and the other soldiers that must work with them are disturbed by them. Cromwell could spin it that they came over willingly or that all Fae act the same way. Except there are the accounts of the people that ran into the KoB or fought during Op Dunkirk. Those people would be aware that the Zae are not the norm and were likely tampered with if they were ever paraded in public. Even using a newspaper to spread the word that the Fae are constructs, essentially uber-golems, would not be effective for the above reason and the lack of the printing press (IIRC Halk did not have printing presses).

For the turtle strategy, it could work but will definitely increase the length of the war and the casualties. Not to mention that an Fae soldiers that get captured are likely to suicide by self immolation to ensure that they won't be coming back as a Zae.

Not necessarily as depending on the range of Octavia's attack the fleet could could lose a few ships from the surprise attack then scramble for height or distance inland. Basically the fleet has to charge right into the teeth of Freelia's defenses or fly up out of range, move over the island and then drop.

Sure it would put the fleet in a horrible position either way but Octavia wouldn't be an instant fleet kill.

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At that point I think they would just withdraw or increase altitude to avoid her next shot depending on the damages taken when Tavi first opens water.

To be fair, given Octavia has fucking Hyper Beam, an attack on Freelia would be the perfect time to give her crown back and would give her a little bit of time to sulk and think about what she's done before hand.

Not to mention the glorious scene where she goes right from tiny fish girl straight back to glorious Abyssal Queen on a power fueled high that leaves everyone terrified of the mad laughter booming across the battlefield.

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Everyone thought Tavi was Magikarp.

Then Reconquista found out that she was Gyarados.


She could always arrive fashionably late. Just as everything seems hopeless.... SUDDENLY OCTAVIA OUT OF NOWHERE!!!

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Spoiler: Image: Magikarp Power

Octavia: I swear to God, when I evolve I will murder you all.
Asuna: I think I made the fish too hardcore.

 

[End Bringer]

True. Though it's Reconquista's own fault they decided to fly low enough and cluster together tightly enough right over the water for her to take aim. Or maybe to drive by that bridge the Mages were building.

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Given the need to conserve Windstone energy, I thought airships would land in the ocean near the coast, or any sufficient body of water, when not flying about, in order to conserve energy while besieging and blockading Freelia.

If so, you can have Octavia destroy a notable, but ultimately low, number of ships, that simply forces them to stay completely out of the water. She makes an impact, but ultimately only affects the overall picture very slightly with morale, and putting a strain on Windstone supplies.

Only problem is that it makes the battle a little one sided.

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Not necessarily. I don't see Octavia being able to spam that kind of attack, and by the time she could do it again, the Reconquista fleet would move far enough away to avoid her (she can't get too close to shore without being an exposed target after all).

I can see her taking out 3 or 4 ships in one hit as a surprise attack, trying to physically maul another one, and while doing so being exposed and nearly bombarded by a half-dozen other ships (or the ships she's attacking explodes and hurts her), that forces her away, and makes everyone keep their distance.

She'd draw some blood, but largely just be a deterrent for Reconquista to avoid the waters, and thus be rendered largely irrelevant.

 

[jwolfe_beta]

At that point I think they would just withdraw or increase altitude to avoid her next shot depending on the damages taken when Tavi first opens water.

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Oh Blake and the other commander with their heads screwed on straight will definitely want to withdraw (their against the whole 'attack Freelia without any good intelligence' thing to begin with) but they aren't the ones deciding strategy.
Chapter 10 – Part 1 - Truly Lost
Gives a good idea of the general mentality among the various armchair generals 'planning' this thing.

 

[Academic Guardian]

Given the need to conserve Windstone energy, I thought airships would land in the ocean near the coast, or any sufficient body of water, when not flying about, in order to conserve energy while besieging and blockading Freelia.

If so, you can have Octavia destroy a notable, but ultimately low, number of ships, that simply forces them to stay completely out of the water. She makes an impact, but ultimately only affects the overall picture very slightly with morale, and putting a strain on Windstone supplies.



Not necessarily. I don't see Octavia being able to spam that kind of attack, and by the time she could do it again, the Reconquista fleet would move far enough away to avoid her (she can't get too close to shore without being an exposed target after all).

I can see her taking out 3 or 4 ships in one hit as a surprise attack, trying to physically maul another one, and while doing so being exposed and nearly bombarded by a half-dozen other ships (or the ships she's attacking explodes and hurts her), that forces her away, and makes everyone keep their distance.

She'd draw some blood, but largely just be a deterrent for Reconquista to avoid the waters, and thus be rendered largely irrelevant.

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Just like to point out, this is threading a wee bit too close in the over competent villains range. Also why the need to nerf?

 

[End Bringer]

eh, I still think it works best if Octavia just keeps to a hands off allegiance with Tristain. Her coming to Alfheim's aid if the land itself is threatened is one thing, her defending the kingdom of Tristain however just seems out of character.

Not to mention, having the Border Bosses stay hands off is far more interesting than having them actively intervening in anything.

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Technically it would be Octavia looking out for Freelia, than Tristain. And that's likely not going to be for more than this single battle, and the single instance of a Border Boss going out of their way to fight as a special concession. Perhaps Solomon will make an appearance in the distant future, but like Octavia, that would just be in regards to Gaddan, or the desert region (Gallian forces going to an area they should not go).

Just remember that so long as none of the Bosses are a one-hit-insta-fleet-kill, that already makes them better than ZnT canon.

Just like to point out, this is threading a wee bit too close in the over competent villains range. Also why the need to nerf?

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It's over-competent to attack the sea monster in panic and stay well out of the water to ensure it can't get you?

 

[JumperPrime]

I do agree that Border Bosses sticking to their roles as guardians is more interesting than being guardians of Tristain, which they of course aren't.

The exception to this rule for me however is Octavia, when she decided she wanted to make her own intervention at the Ragdorian Lake, she stopped being in the 'staying out of Fae affairs' club.

However, IMO she shouldn't be a guardian of Tristain still, but rather that she's on no one's side but Asuna's side (Just that Asuna's objective coincides with Tristain's objectives.), and if Asuna needs an obstacle removed and maybe Octavia is coincidentally the best answer to the situation, maybe she can be convinced to chime in to help, possibly in her own tsundere way.

"I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing this because I want to blow off some steam."

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Kirito: "I believe we have passed the Godzilla Threshold."

Asuna: "Agreed. Octavia-chan?"

:::Octavia climbs out of her fishbowl::

Octavia: "It's about damn time! I was worried we'd get overrun before you realized that you needed MY awesome power to win the day."

Asuna: "Don't push it, young lady. Even when you're at full power, I can still kick your tail if I have to."

Octavia: "Look, do you want me out there or should I just go back to my nap?"

::Asuna holds out Octavia's tiara to the little fish girl::

Asuna: "Go get 'em."

Octavia: "I'll be done in time for lunch."

Kirito: "but lunch is in 10 minutes."

Octavia: "Then I'll have time to help set the table as well."

So...What is Ban-chan and Bardiche's thoughts on meeting the entire Kirigaya family now? I can see neither of them knowing that they are the badass celebrities they are until Ban-chan starts telling one of her friends about Yui's parents, Asuna and Kirito, and them having a heart attack (seriously, outside of the Fae Lords, the Kirigayas have got be the biggest celebrities being containing two of the biggest badasses, a virtual prodigy, and a watch officer who is quickly going through the ranks - not to mention most people don't actually have a family so...)

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I saw what you did there.

 

[Anzer'ke]

Given the need to conserve Windstone energy, I thought airships would land in the ocean near the coast, or any sufficient body of water, when not flying about, in order to conserve energy while besieging and blockading Freelia.

If so, you can have Octavia destroy a notable, but ultimately low, number of ships, that simply forces them to stay completely out of the water. She makes an impact, but ultimately only affects the overall picture very slightly with morale, and putting a strain on Windstone supplies.



Not necessarily. I don't see Octavia being able to spam that kind of attack, and by the time she could do it again, the Reconquista fleet would move far enough away to avoid her (she can't get too close to shore without being an exposed target after all).

I can see her taking out 3 or 4 ships in one hit as a surprise attack, trying to physically maul another one, and while doing so being exposed and nearly bombarded by a half-dozen other ships (or the ships she's attacking explodes and hurts her), that forces her away, and makes everyone keep their distance.

She'd draw some blood, but largely just be a deterrent for Reconquista to avoid the waters, and thus be rendered largely irrelevant.

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Frankly this seems like a nerfbat rampage against Octavia, all for the sake of having her mildly effect a battle where she's not really needed.

How about instead of getting depowered the Border Guards keep doing what they're doing and guard the locations cardinal has designated for them.

Just because Octavia likes Asuna doesn't mean that she's going to feel any need to help her all the time, in fact given her stance of admiration that's probably the last thing she intends to do. Remember that Octavia still has a rather alien mindset and little reason to care about Tristain or the Fae. Remember that she's still referring to them all as Shades.

More likely Octavia continues to be the Abyssal Queen, and allows Tristain, having been vouched for by Asuna to make offering and traverse her waters safely.

 

[End Bringer]

Frankly this seems like a nerfbat rampage against Octavia, all for the sake of having her mildly effect a battle where she's not really needed.

How about instead of getting depowered the Border Guards keep doing what they're doing and guard the locations cardinal has designated for them.

Just because Octavia likes Asuna doesn't mean that she's going to feel any need to help her all the time, in fact given her stance of admiration that's probably the last thing she intends to do. Remember that Octavia still has a rather alien mindset and little reason to care about Tristain or the Fae. Remember that she's still referring to them all as Shades.

More likely Octavia continues to be the Abyssal Queen, and allows Tristain, having been vouched for by Asuna to make offering and traverse her waters safely.

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They all would. It'd just be Octavia guarding the waters near Freelia for a bit. And like Exq. pointed out, Octavia's a bit of an exception what with actively bringing the lake under her domain.

And I simply don't see Octavia being let go, with just a 'you don't mess with me and I don't mess with you' deal after the grief Octavia has just given them. Argo sure wouldn't allow it. A little bit more help on Tristain's coast, that doesn't really change the whole war, but keeps Freelia standing, isn't a stretch nor a game breaker IMO.

Because it's just a contribution to a single battle, and not even one that wins the whole thing on it's own.

 

[Alfa290]

Uh, guys... what happened to that super weapon that Cromwell said he got his hands on back in chapter 10 part 1

 

[Tython82]

Uh, guys... what happened to that super weapon that Cromwell said he got his hands on back in chapter 10 part 1

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At the moment it is useless since the final componet the Heel Stone which Matilda stole is well hidden that not even Sheffield could find it. So until they can make a substitute it can't do anything.

 

[Anzer'ke]

They all would. It'd just be Octavia guarding the waters near Freelia for a bit. And like Exq. pointed out, Octavia's a bit of an exception what with actively bringing the lake under her domain.

And I simply don't see Octavia being let go, with just a 'you don't mess with me and I don't mess with you' deal after the grief Octavia has just given them. Argo sure wouldn't allow it. A little bit more help on Tristain's coast, that doesn't really change the whole war, but keeps Freelia standing, isn't a stretch nor a game breaker IMO.

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Argo doesn't exactly have a choice, she's holding neither of the important objects. Not to mention this is all assuming Solomon allows them a decision on the matter in the first place. He can quite easily take both Crown and Octavia and do whatever he likes.

Octavia hasn't really done any actual harm here, she made a non-lethal attack and had a very spirited argument with Asuna. Given that she could have murderised everyone involved in the first few seconds, it seems a bit much to act like she went on a rampage. Again, Octavia may well not even acknowledge the other Fae and Humans as worth her notice.

 

[Vaermina]

Frankly this seems like a nerfbat rampage against Octavia, all for the sake of having her mildly effect a battle where she's not really needed.

How about instead of getting depowered the Border Guards keep doing what they're doing and guard the locations cardinal has designated for them.

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It would also be a Dues Ex Machina.

 

[GeshronTyler]

Yui hasn't exactly made a name for herself, other than being Asuna and Kirito's daughter, being good at math, and sortbof weird. And that's the way the Kirigayas like it. They don't want to attract attention to Yui. While the Halkegenian teachers at the Arrun School may make a point of paying attention to Yui's social status as a child of Royal Knights, I don't think Kirito and Asuna's feats (or Leafa's) have quit ereached tze level of "household word". Granted, Asuna having been part of the SAO 300 has probably percolated through society, and the two of them (amongst others) being part of Dunkirk. The Fae Lords would want to have those volunteering for the Armed Forces recognized for their efforts, so I imagine public conciousness is steadily growing. I figure that Kirito being the Clearer of SAO is just rumor at this point, since neither he, Asuna, their companions from SAO, would be eager to talk about it. For the rest, it would be on the level of "internet rumor", and Kirito's name would generate speculation, but most likely think it coincidence, or somebody using a "cool" name.

Things would change, I'm sure, once the Reconquista Invasion kicks off, once a larger audience witnesses events, and comrades in arms have the time and chance to tell war stories.

 

[jwolfe_beta]

Uh, guys... what happened to that super weapon that Cromwell said he got his hands on back in chapter 10 part 1

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Remember they call it a super weapon 'from the time of the founder'. In reality it could be something that got ported from Earth and people slapped the Brimir label on it.

Also we don't know how effective it really is (or if they can figure out how to use it properly if it's something from Earth). Remember these people considered a one-shot anti-tank launcher the 'Staff of Destruction'. Who knows what this thing is.

 

[JumperPrime]

At the moment it is useless since the final componet the Heel Stone which Matilda stole is well hidden that not even Sheffield could find it. So until they can make a substitute it can't do anything.

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Sheffield isn't even looking for it. Matilda did such an incredible job on the fake that Sheffield concluded that the Heel Stone's magic had been lost to the passage of time.

 

[Tython82]

Sheffield isn't even looking for it. Matilda did such an incredible job on the fake that Sheffield concluded that the Heel Stone's magic had been lost to the passage of time.

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Ahh that's right. Guess I mixed up the reasons why she didn't pursue the stone further.

 

[End Bringer]

Argo doesn't exactly have a choice, she's holding neither of the important objects. Not to mention this is all assuming Solomon allows them a decision on the matter in the first place. He can quite easily take both Crown and Octavia and do whatever he likes.

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Asuna holds the cards here. Argo would just be reminding the tactically minded second-in-command of all the benefits of a Border Boss helping them out with the conflict on the horizon. And given how Solomon addressed her, he'd likely defer to Asuna's decision no matter what it is.

Octavia hasn't really done any actual harm here, she made a non-lethal attack and had a very spirited argument with Asuna. Given that she could have murderised everyone involved in the first few seconds, it seems a bit much to act like she went on a rampage. Again, Octavia may well not even acknowledge the other Fae and Humans as worth her notice.

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That's why I said "grief," and why she'll ultimately be spared. Helping out with Freelia would just be a favor in exchange for getting to go back to her giant mermaid form.

 

[mdkcde]

I was actually basing it on the leviathan for. Atlantis the lost empire.

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I can already see the exact same dialog happen.