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Glory of the Emerald Empire (Legend of the 5 Rings Quest)

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Winged Knight said:
Courtier Roll: 5k3=42
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Frankly at this point it's just getting ridiculous.

Winged Knight said:
"Not immediately," Hosaru responds. "They'll likely want some kind of proof the Scorpion and the Crab truly stand together. If the Crab can vouchsafe the intentions of the Scorpion, then perhaps headway can be made to removing Doji Noboru from these proceedings and a proper arrangement made between our two Clans."
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I love how the good relations we've fostered with other clans is coming back to help us out.

Bro crabs best crabs.
 
FunkyEntropy said:
I love how the good relations we've fostered with other clans is coming back to help us out.
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Like I said before: people call the Scorpion dishonourable (they are- that's their duty to the Emperor), but if you earn their actual, legitimate loyalty?

For that, the Scorpion will withhold their sting from your back, and apply it a hundred times over to the back of your enemy.

(I've mused before that the Crab and Scorpion, in some ways, are actually rather alike- they both deliberately set aside things that the rest of the Empire considers essential to being a true samurai)
 
[X] "If you don't mind, I could speak of my time in the scorpion realms."
-[X] Recount what happened when you visited scorpion. Storytelling time!
--[X] Spend a void point.

This good?
 
[x] Lost Star

Is interesting that the Scorpion had offered the same proposal as we now. Coming to the very same conclusion in order to secure an alliance.

How small, the world is.
 
Is it actually a good idea to talk about what we did in Scorpion lands? A good amount of it can be easily spun to make them look bad, or for that matter to make us look bad- after all, tainted types getting past us is "clearly" a failure on our part, and the so-very-aware Scorpion failing to notice a brewing cult until it chose to reveal itself and attack is one on theirs. Even if we assume that this guy means to do well enough by us, he's loyal to the Crane first and will share whatever we say with his superiors, who can twist anything they know about us into a social weapon.

Perhaps it would be more prudent to simply get the names and locations of the key Scorpion present and involved, assure him that we will strive to bring this matter to an end that he would find satisfactory, and return to Yasuki Goro with what we've learned.

Edit: The reason to tell him must be to get him more on our side, to give a specific sort of impression when telling the tale so that he feels inclined to aid us somehow. But the current write-in to do so doesn't actually put forth any such objective; it's simply sharing information rather than a veiled pitch. If we want to tell that story we need a clear goal as to what we're accomplishing with it and how.
 
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DarkLight140 said:
Is it actually a good idea to talk about what we did in Scorpion lands? A good amount of it can be easily spun to make them look bad, or for that matter to make us look bad- after all, tainted types getting past us is "clearly" a failure on our part, and the so-very-aware Scorpion failing to notice a brewing cult until it chose to reveal itself and attack is one on theirs. Even if we assume that this guy means to do well enough by us, he's loyal to the Crane first and will share whatever we say with his superiors, who can twist anything they know about us into a social weapon.

Perhaps it would be more prudent to simply get the names and locations of the key Scorpion present and involved, assure him that we will strive to bring this matter to an end that he would find satisfactory, and return to Yasuki Goro with what we've learned.

Edit: The reason to tell him must be to get him more on our side, to give a specific sort of impression when telling the tale so that he feels inclined to aid us somehow. But the current write-in to do so doesn't actually put forth any such objective; it's simply sharing information rather than a veiled pitch. If we want to tell that story we need a clear goal as to what we're accomplishing with it and how.
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Or... not? We aren't exactly super-manipulative. We don't *have* to be super-manipulative. At this point, the word has to have been spread, at least some. We got Glory for it, after all, and it was openly discussed with a Crane diplomat who was directly opposed to us over in the Dragon lands. Also, we're pretty good at tweaking stories. As for this guy... my read is that excessive manipulation will go over poorly. He's actually gone out on a limb for us to a degree. This is more in the vein of paying him back, both by sharing the story as a performance and by sharing the information. Also, there's a decent chance that he will find it convincing in any of a number of ways, and assuming we don't screw up, those are likely to be to our benefit.

If we were Scorpion, I'd agree with you. For many of the Crane we might talk with, I'd agree with you. If this were something not quite as well known, I might agree with you. Here and now, though? Seems pretty solid.
 
Point on previous use of the information and getting Glory for it- it's tough to keep track of exactly what's happened and been said to whom, so my failure there.

However, that leaves my post-edit comments unaddressed; it doesn't make it sensible to just start talking with little consideration or direction. In fact, I'm pretty sure you've just agreed with me on this; as you say, we are pretty good at tweaking stories, and there's a good chance that he'll find it convincing. So why vote to tell a story without specifying how we're tweaking it or what we're trying to convince him of? That's not being manipulative, that's just actually bothering to accomplish something useful- because if we assume that, as you say, our prior actions have already shared the information, then unless we tell the tale in a way that accomplishes a useful goal, we're basically acting as an entertainer.

Useful goals in this context are things like "emphasize that the Scorpion aren't always dicks", "show through our telling that the Scorpion and Crab have recently found very good reasons to strengthen relations", and so forth. Stuff that is actually relevant in context, is fairly basic to attempt to achieve, but cannot be assumed to be part of our objective from the current "recount what happened", which logically defaults to a facts-only recounting rather than pointing out any conclusions.

I don't consider that manipulative in any meaningful sense, given the situation. If we genuinely wanted to avoid any possible manipulation we would just leave instead of launching into storytelling at all, because it's basically treated as a social attack by the system regardless.
 
Too early for story time. Remember that every other time there's been this dramatic buildup with lots of pressure to do well for various reasons.

Doesn't feel right to do it now. Save it for when we inevitably get called to talk to the head of this dude's clan.
 
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If we're going to save it for then, how can we possibly convince this Crane that out goals and the goals of the Scorpion are similar? We'll be rolling Storytelling, no matter how elaborate the story will be.

Unless you point out how to tell said story, of course.
 
I find this to be hilarious.

The whole point of the Scorpion, is that nobody can pin down their loyalties!

That said, [x] Lost Star.
 
[x] "I cannot be certain why the Scorpion are behaving in this manner, though given my experiences in Scorpion lands I can make a guess. I will tell you what happened there if you wish, as your superiors are already likely aware.

- If asked, mention that the crane diplomat who was at the trade discussions with the dragon knows the story.

- If he wants to hear the story, suggest a private meeting. Not certain if there is a way to do so politely, but if so do a jade strike on him to demonstrate your level of concern.

Once completed, try to find out more about him, as he has obviously already heared of us and we're being somewhat impolite in not asking about him anyways.
 
EtchedSteel said:
If we're going to save it for then, how can we possibly convince this Crane that out goals and the goals of the Scorpion are similar? We'll be rolling Storytelling, no matter how elaborate the story will be.

Unless you point out how to tell said story, of course.
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We do this:
  1. Get the contact information for the relevant parties.
  2. Return to speak to our boss, telling him what's going on.
  3. A Crab, a Scorpion, and a Daidoji, all of significant rank, sit down in a room together and the first two say "yes, we're teaming up" to the third.
Sure, that won't actually convince this guy, right this second, that the Crab and Scorpion are working together. And it won't be us doing the actual convincing. But the fact is, it doesn't matter if this guy is convinced right this instant, it matters if someone who actually has the authority to decide the actions of the Daidoji is convinced in good enough time for the negotiations to proceed... and it certainly doesn't matter if we, who remain a yojimbo rather than any kind of proper diplomat, are involved at all.

On that note, recall that we do not, in fact, have the authority to speak for our Clan, or even for our boss, so no matter what we say right now at absolute best we can assert that we firmly believe and have seen evidence that the Crab and Scorpion are planning to cooperate. Recall also that, as per what Sirrocco pointed out above, the Daidoji already almost certainly know these things and aren't sure whether to believe it or not in spite of this, and need further action definitively showing that it is so; Hosaru just specified that his superiors "want some kind of proof the Scorpion and the Crab truly stand together", in spite of the fact that he personally is giving weight to our words. Virtually nothing that we could say qualifies as such proof. The more I think about our current course of action in light of these matters, the more I become convinced that we're done here and what we need to do for this guy, assuming we are well-intentioned toward him, is not "talk at him more" but rather "make shit happen".

Therefore:
[x] Assure Hosaru that we will speak to our superior on this matter and express our hope that we can work with the Scorpion and Daidoji to arrange matters to benefit all concerned. If he cares to give us the names of relevant individuals that Yasuki-sama may wish to contact for further communication on this issue, and where to find them, we will pass that along as well.
-[x] Move away from serious political conversations for the remainder of the meal; perhaps Hosaru can recommend some sights to see in the city where we are unlikely to be bothered, or would care to hear a description of one of the locations we have been fortunate enough to visit, told purely to entertain, or one of our other companions has a matter they would wish to speak about.
 
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The thing is that Hosaru wants a proof that the Scorpion and the Crab are together and are pushing towards the same goal and telling about what we did back on Kyuden Bayushi does exactly that. Your vote as it is doesn't cover that detail.
 
EtchedSteel said:
The thing is that Hosaru wants a proof that the Scorpion and the Crab are together and are pushing towards the same goal and telling about what we did back on Kyuden Bayushi does exactly that. Your vote as it is doesn't cover that detail.
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Yeah, because actually providing that proof isn't our job. Heck, we don't even actually know what's going on; we literally just discovered that there are even Scorpion here because he told us. We can reasonably guess that the Scorpion are probably working to help us out on the basis that we have a positive relationship with them, and we can tell him that we think the Scorpion are on our side based upon what we currently know about the situation...

...but what we currently know about the situation is precious little, so why would we make that assertion? Particularly when he's going to lengths to emphasize that his superiors want proof? We haven't even talked to or met with these particular Scorpion and for all we know they're pursuing some entirely unrelated objective that just happens to look like they're helping us. I don't think it's that likely, but it could feasibly be so. Shouldn't we at least meet them before asserting firmly that they're working with us?

Aside from that, there is someone in our party whose job it is to navigate complex political waters, and his name is not Hiruma Sosuke. We have gathered a lot of puzzle pieces for our boss and we think we know the solution, but that doesn't make it any less his job to decide to implement that solution. Tell Hosaru that we're going to try and make things work out to his benefit, then hand the matter over to the professional; if our boss wants us to then head right back over and start telling stories about how well the Crab and Scorpion get along and how we're marrying a Scorpion to prove it we can do that then. There is no need to act rashly.
 
[x] Assure Hosaru that we will speak to our superior on this matter and express our hope that we can work with the Scorpion and Daidoji to arrange matters to benefit all concerned. If he cares to give us the names of relevant individuals that Yasuki-sama may wish to contact for further communication on this issue, and where to find them, we will pass that along as well.
-[x] Move away from serious political conversations for the remainder of the meal; perhaps Hosaru can recommend some sights to see in the city where we are unlikely to be bothered, or would care to hear a description of one of the locations we have been fortunate enough to visit, told purely to entertain, or one of our other companions has a matter they would wish to speak about.
 
[x] Assure Hosaru that we will speak to our superior on this matter and express our hope that we can work with the Scorpion and Daidoji to arrange matters to benefit all concerned. If he cares to give us the names of relevant individuals that Yasuki-sama may wish to contact for further communication on this issue, and where to find them, we will pass that along as well.
-[x] Move away from serious political conversations for the remainder of the meal; perhaps Hosaru can recommend some sights to see in the city where we are unlikely to be bothered, or would care to hear a description of one of the locations we have been fortunate enough to visit, told purely to entertain, or one of our other companions has a matter they would wish to speak about.
 
[X] "If you don't mind, I could speak of my time in the scorpion realms."
-[X] Recount what happened when you visited scorpion. Storytelling time!
--[X] Spend a void point.
 
[x] Assure Hosaru that we will speak to our superior on this matter and express our hope that we can work with the Scorpion and Daidoji to arrange matters to benefit all concerned. If he cares to give us the names of relevant individuals that Yasuki-sama may wish to contact for further communication on this issue, and where to find them, we will pass that along as well.
-[x] Move away from serious political conversations for the remainder of the meal; perhaps Hosaru can recommend some sights to see in the city where we are unlikely to be bothered, or would care to hear a description of one of the locations we have been fortunate enough to visit, told purely to entertain, or one of our other companions has a matter they would wish to speak about.
 
[X] "If you don't mind, I could speak of my time in the scorpion realms."
-[X] Recount what happened when you visited scorpion. Storytelling time!
--[X] Spend a void point.
 
[x] Assure Hosaru that we will speak to our superior on this matter and express our hope that we can work with the Scorpion and Daidoji to arrange matters to benefit all concerned. If he cares to give us the names of relevant individuals that Yasuki-sama may wish to contact for further communication on this issue, and where to find them, we will pass that along as well.
-[x] Move away from serious political conversations for the remainder of the meal; perhaps Hosaru can recommend some sights to see in the city where we are unlikely to be bothered, or would care to hear a description of one of the locations we have been fortunate enough to visit, told purely to entertain, or one of our other companions has a matter they would wish to speak about.
 
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