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Gestalt (Human Group Mind in WH40K)

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WorldSlayer said:
Still on a quick glance the general idea seems fairly sound. I suppose it depends on how often we need to reapply rejuv to keep it effective and how bad it is to to have treatment interrupted.
@Driven by Apathy Can you give us some information on this?
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I think I'm going to handle it like this: When you decide to leave a planet, I'll give you the option to pay the cost for rejuvenat treatments for the next 5 years in advance. If you do, the rejuvenat will then stay effective for those 5 years.
 
KhazintheDark said:
[X]Plan Rapid Anti-ageing

@10ebbor10 @Skjadir @RandomDwarf

I don't think the tally program will read the plan correctly if there is a hyphen in front of the first set of brackets.
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Vote Tally : Gestalt (Human Group Mind in WH40K) - Sci-Fi | Page 20 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 494-552]
##### NetTally 1.9.9

- [x]Plan Rapid Anti-ageing
- [X] Year 1
- [X] Year 2
- [X] Year 3-5
- [X] Year 6-7
- [X] Year 8
- [X] Year 9
-[X] Design List ( 23,370,940 emh estimate)
-[X] Construction list (3,032,192.45 emh estimate)
No. of Votes: 5
Plan: ◈Rapid Anti-ageing
10ebbor10
KhazintheDark
Martenzo
RandomDwarf
Skjadir

[X] Plan Properly Paranoid Preparations:
-[X] Work 25 hours a week
-[X] Work 11 Years
-[X] First Priority: Finish Building the Hothouse and Operate it and the Shipboard Hydroponics.
-[X] Second Priority: Design, Build and Operate the Genetics & Rejuvenat Facility
-[X] Third Priority: Build Barbed Wire, Fences & Cameras (Tech Level 0)
-[X] Fourth Priority: Design and Build Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3)
-[X] Fifth Priority: Design and Build "Chameleon" Camouflage System (Tech Level 3) on all three buildings.
-[X] Sixth Priority: Design and Build Volkite Turrets (Tech Level 3)
-[X] Seventh Priority: Design and Build Stealthy Surface Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3)
-[X] Eighth Priority: Research Perk: Improved Group Mind Skillsharing I
-[X] Ninth Priority: Design Heavy Industry (Tech Level 3)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Properly Paranoid Preparations:
Enthusiast#117

[X] Let's leave.
-[X] We leave this shithole and go looking for somewhere better.
No. of Votes: 1
WorldSlayer

Total No. of Voters: 7

it shows up just fine the only problem is that the details don´t show up.

@10ebbor10 you might just want to define the upkeep and make sure that the Hydroponics are on it as currently the first few year don´t appear to make use of it at all (also that the details show up on the tally )
 
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10ebbor10 said:
Fixed now, I think?
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yep it is:
Vote Tally : Gestalt (Human Group Mind in WH40K) - Sci-Fi | Page 20 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 494-552]
##### NetTally 1.9.9

[x]Plan Rapid Anti-ageing
-[X] 25 hours work per week
-[X] All years
- [X] use Hydroponics
- [X] Year 1
- [X]First Priority : Design Land version of Genetic Thingy
- [X] Year 2
- [X]First priority : Finish Designing Land version of Genetic thingy
- [X]Second Priority : Commence construction of Genetic Thingy
- [X] Year 3-5
- [X] First priority : Design Weather based Sat Tech 3
- [X]Second Priority : Construct Weather based Sat Tech 3
- [X]Third priority : Continue Construction of Genetic Thingy
- [X]Auxiliary resources: Design things following the design list
- [X] Year 6-7
- [X]First Priority : Finish Genetic Thingy Land version
- [X]Second Priority : Finish Construction on Hothouse
- [X]Upkeep changes : Manpower dedicated for Juvenat of entire population for following years
- [X]Auxilary resources: Design things following the design list
- [X] Year 8
- [X]First Priority : Finish Hothouse
- [X]Second Priority : Construct things following the construction list
- [X]Third priority : Design things following design list
- [X]Upkeep change : Operate Hothouse for following years
- [X] Year 9
- [X]First priority : Improved Group Mind Skillsharing I
- [X]Second Priority : Construct things following construction list
- [X]Third priority : Design things following design list
-[X] Design List ( 23,370,940 emh estimate)
- [X]Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3) 4,000,000
- [X] Volkite Turrets (Tech Level 3) : 4 000 000
- [X]"Chameleon" Camouflage System : 4 000 000
- [X]Remainder Fuel Refinery T1 : 16,800,000
-[X] Construction list (3,032,192.45 emh estimate)
- [X]Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3):600 000
- [X]Barbed Wire, Fences & Cameras (Tech Level 0): 150 000
- [X]Volkite Turrets (Tech Level 3): 600 000
- [X]"Chameleon" Camouflage System (Tech Level 3) = 600 000* 2 = Ship + Gene building
- [X]Remainder : "Chameleon" Camouflage System (Tech Level 3) for Hothouse 600 000
- [X]If by some miracle there's still excess : Mass Produce alloys
No. of Votes: 5
Plan: ◈Rapid Anti-ageing
10ebbor10
KhazintheDark
Martenzo
RandomDwarf
Skjadir

[X] Plan Properly Paranoid Preparations:
-[X] Work 25 hours a week
-[X] Work 11 Years
-[X] First Priority: Finish Building the Hothouse and Operate it and the Shipboard Hydroponics.
-[X] Second Priority: Design, Build and Operate the Genetics & Rejuvenat Facility
-[X] Third Priority: Build Barbed Wire, Fences & Cameras (Tech Level 0)
-[X] Fourth Priority: Design and Build Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3)
-[X] Fifth Priority: Design and Build "Chameleon" Camouflage System (Tech Level 3) on all three buildings.
-[X] Sixth Priority: Design and Build Volkite Turrets (Tech Level 3)
-[X] Seventh Priority: Design and Build Stealthy Surface Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3)
-[X] Eighth Priority: Research Perk: Improved Group Mind Skillsharing I
-[X] Ninth Priority: Design Heavy Industry (Tech Level 3)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Properly Paranoid Preparations:
Enthusiast#117

[X] Let's leave.
-[X] We leave this shithole and go looking for somewhere better.
No. of Votes: 1
WorldSlayer

Total No. of Voters: 7
 
[X]Plan Rapid Anti-ageing
  1. Plan Rapid Anti-ageing
    Â
    Does anyone know why the copy paste buttons are forcing an undeletable numbering and adding a rapid A with an accent? This is fucking annoying and I hate manually typing the plans name.​
 
It's not happening with me. Where are you copying from.

That said, you can push the ordered list button twice to remove the list.
 
I am using ctrl c and ctrl v to copy from the closest plan I like on the thread. Also the ordered list button doesn't work. I have to backspace from the end of my copied vote to get rid of it. That then gets rid of my vote and makes me have to type manually.
 
Vote closed. Should I even bother with a tally? :p

The update will follow tomorrow, as I'm rather tired right now.
Adhoc vote count started by Driven by Apathy on Dec 25, 2018 at 1:33 PM, finished with 566 posts and 14 votes.
  • [X] Plan Properly Paranoid Preparations:
    -[X] Work 25 hours a week
    -[X] Work 11 Years
    -[X] First Priority: Finish Building the Hothouse and Operate it and the Shipboard Hydroponics.
    -[X] Second Priority: Design, Build and Operate the Genetics & Rejuvenat Facility
    -[X] Third Priority: Build Barbed Wire, Fences & Cameras (Tech Level 0)
    -[X] Fourth Priority: Design and Build Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3)
    -[X] Fifth Priority: Design and Build "Chameleon" Camouflage System (Tech Level 3) on all three buildings.
    -[X] Sixth Priority: Design and Build Volkite Turrets (Tech Level 3)
    -[X] Seventh Priority: Design and Build Stealthy Surface Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3)
    -[X] Eighth Priority: Research Perk: Improved Group Mind Skillsharing I
    -[X] Ninth Priority: Design Heavy Industry (Tech Level 3)
    [x]Plan Rapid Anti-ageing
    -[X] 25 hours work per week
    -[X] All years
    - [X] use Hydroponics​
    - [X] Year 1
    - [X]First Priority : Design Land version of Genetic Thingy​
    - [X] Year 2
    - [X]First priority : Finish Designing Land version of Genetic thingy​
    - [X]Second Priority : Commence construction of Genetic Thingy​
    - [X] Year 3-5
    - [X] First priority : Design Weather based Sat Tech 3​
    - [X]Second Priority : Construct Weather based Sat Tech 3​
    - [X]Third priority : Continue Construction of Genetic Thingy​
    - [X]Auxiliary resources: Design things following the design list​
    - [X] Year 6-7
    - [X]First Priority : Finish Genetic Thingy Land version​
    - [X]Second Priority : Finish Construction on Hothouse​
    - [X]Upkeep changes : Manpower dedicated for Juvenat of entire population for following years​
    - [X]Auxilary resources: Design things following the design list​
    - [X] Year 8
    - [X]First Priority : Finish Hothouse​
    - [X]Second Priority : Construct things following the construction list​
    - [X]Third priority : Design things following design list​
    - [X]Upkeep change : Operate Hothouse for following years​
    - [X] Year 9
    - [X]First priority : Improved Group Mind Skillsharing I ​

    - [X]Second Priority : Construct things following construction list​

    -[X] Design List ( 23,370,940 emh estimate)
    - [X]Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3) 4,000,000 ​

    - [X] Volkite Turrets (Tech Level 3) : 4 000 000​

    - [X]"Chameleon" Camouflage System : 4 000 000​

    - [X]Remainder Fuel Refinery T1 : 16,800,000 ​
    -[X] Construction list (3,032,192.45 emh estimate)
    - [X]Stealthy Space Observation Satellites (Tech Level 3):600 000​

    - [X]Barbed Wire, Fences & Cameras (Tech Level 0): 150 000​

    - [X]Volkite Turrets (Tech Level 3): 600 000​

    - [X]"Chameleon" Camouflage System (Tech Level 3) = 600 000* 2 = Ship + Gene building​

    - [X]Remainder : "Chameleon" Camouflage System (Tech Level 3) for Hothouse 600 000​

    - [X]If by some miracle there's still excess : Mass Produce alloys​
    [X] Let's leave.
    -[X] We leave this shithole and go looking for somewhere better.
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Could someone explain to me why the T1 Fuel Refinery is anything other than useless in our current situation?
 
I don't disagree, with 6 units of fuel being apparently equal to 6 years of flight it would seem we have plenty of fuel available for us to leave this planet and find a place where we can properly grow.

We're on the clock here, every year billions suffer and die in the decaying Imperium while alien monstrosities and dimensional horrors grow in strength and do their best to annihilate humanity. We need to grow fast and start kicking ass as soon as possible if we want to make a difference in the galaxy, we can't afford to sit around for half a century making a base on an iceball in the middle of nowhere.
 
WorldSlayer said:
I don't disagree, with 6 units of fuel being apparently equal to 6 years of flight it would seem we have plenty of fuel available for us to leave this planet and find a place where we can properly grow.
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Note that using a Fuel Refinery of lower tech level than our ship (which is at T3) means we need more of that low-tech fuel per light year. For a T3 ship, I think it was 4 fuel/light year with fuel out of a T1 refinery (unless I'm remembering wrong and 4f/ly was for T2 fuel, making T1 fuel's efficiency... probably 8f/ly), while manufacturing a single unit of fuel would still take the same amount of man-hours regardless of tech level.
 
Enthusiast#117 said:
Could someone explain to me why the T1 Fuel Refinery is anything other than useless in our current situation?
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Because the planet we are on has very few metals we can use which ends with some other mods. in us haveing currently a total modifier of 4.3 on construction cost (the hope is that the weather sat is able to get that down to just a 4).
Now what does the t1 Fuel Refinery allow us ? well the creation of T1 fuel that we can use in our ship so we don´t have to make use of the T3 one, even if we need more of it. The advantages are that the build cost are doable compared to even Heavy 1 which would have a construction cost of 80,000,000+ currently and that we end up with the plans for some thing we can build relatively fast to that lets us create more fuel if need even if the stuff is not high quality.

WorldSlayer said:
I don't disagree, with 6 units of fuel being apparently equal to 6 years of flight it would seem we have plenty of fuel available for us to leave this planet and find a place where we can properly grow.

We're on the clock here, every year billions suffer and die in the decaying Imperium while alien monstrosities and dimensional horrors grow in strength and do their best to annihilate humanity. We need to grow fast and start kicking ass as soon as possible if we want to make a difference in the galaxy, we can't afford to sit around for half a century making a base on an iceball in the middle of nowhere.
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it is important, yes we have fuel for six years of flying around, but we also have currently the time to build up some reserves which might not be something that we will have the time to do if things go wrong and also have the plans/development done to be able to just build another refinery fast if needed.

Martenzo said:
Note that using a Fuel Refinery of lower tech level than our ship (which is at T3) means we need more of that low-tech fuel per light year. For a T3 ship, I think it was 4 fuel/light year with fuel out of a T1 refinery (unless I'm remembering wrong and 4f/ly was for T2 fuel, making T1 fuel's efficiency... probably 8f/ly), while manufacturing a single unit of fuel would still take the same amount of man-hours regardless of tech level.
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it is 4fuel/year
 
Skjadir said:
Because the planet we are on has very few metals we can use which ends with some other mods. in us haveing currently a total modifier of 4.3 on construction cost (the hope is that the weather sat is able to get that down to just a 4).
Now what does the t1 Fuel Refinery allow us ? well the creation of T1 fuel that we can use in our ship so we don´t have to make use of the T3 one, even if we need more of it. The advantages are that the build cost are doable compared to even Heavy 1 which would have a construction cost of 80,000,000+ currently and that we end up with the plans for some thing we can build relatively fast to that lets us create more fuel if need even if the stuff is not high quality.


it is important, yes we have fuel for six years of flying around, but we also have currently the time to build up some reserves which might not be something that we will have the time to do if things go wrong and also have the plans/development done to be able to just build another refinery fast if needed.
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I see four main points there:
First, that it is doable in comparison to the other options. I don't disagree, that's a matter of fact, but that in and of itself is not a good reason to build something. It has to have some other value as well.

Second, that once we have it we can quickly build it in other situations where we won't have much time and need fuel desperately. I acknowledge this. It's true that it could be useful in that situation. The T1 Food Building would also be useful in that situation, for much the same reasons. However, we have no way of knowing when that situation will come about. It is possible that we won't run into that situation for a dozen decades or so, during which time we might have needed other designs more desperately.

Thirdly: that we have the time to build up some reserves, so it would be prudent to do so. I don't disagree, but you're missing that fuel is not the only resource we consume. We also consume Maintenance Parts and Food. The shipboard hydroponics only really feeds 10 thousand people, and we're being granted a boon by not having mechanical effects from rationing before the population hits 15 thousand. If the population grows beyond that point, we will also need to stockpile Food for long journeys, and given that on turn 1 we grew by 39 people, that's approximately 8 years until 15 thousand is breached. We just did a 9 year turn. Also, the Maintenance Parts, we only have enough for 2 years of operation. Our ship will quickly degrade and start experiencing malfunctions without those parts. If the point is to stockpile things that we need for interstellar flight, Fuel is the last item on the list of urgent priorities, not the first.

Lastly: that we have enough fuel for six years of flying around. This is technically true, but also misleading. See, as I mentioned, there are 3 resources that we consume as we fly around.

Food, which our ship can produce some of, but whose production will eventually be outpaced by. It can be produced by any Tech Level of Food Building.
Fuel, which we have a small stockpile of 6 units of, and which can be produced by any Tech Level of Fuel Refinery.
Maintenance & Replacement Parts, which we have a small stockpile of 2 units of, and which can be produced only by a Heavy Industry Building of the same Tech Level as the ship.

Each of these resources are spent at a rate of 1 per year, (with the exception of Food which scales with the population, and the exception that if we engage in battle or take damage, additional Parts are consumed to repair it and keep it maintained).

As proof, here's our cargo manifest:
Driven by Apathy said:
Cargo:
- Nova Alexandria Datacore (Tech Level 5) - guarantees Science Level 5, fills 1 unit cargo space
- Shipboard Light Industry (Tech Level 3) - operational, fills 100 units cargo space
- Shipboard Hydroponics Deck (Tech Level 3) - operational, fills 25 units cargo space
- Infantry Equipment (Tech Level 3) - 1 battalion (1000 combatants), maintained by light industry, fills 1 unit cargo space
- Maintenance & Replacement Parts: 2 units
- Fuel (Tech Level 3): 6 units
- Empty cargo space: 65 units
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And the descriptions for the other parts:
Driven by Apathy said:
Maintenance & Replacement Parts (Tech Level 3): Everything you need to keep the Reliant in good working condition for one year. Not a substitute for a major overhaul, but the Reliant shouldn't need one of those yet for then next hundred years or so. Engaging in combat or similarly intense situations may result in systems stress and thus increase maintenance requirements. You'll need heavy industry to make additional starship maintenance & replacement parts.

Cost: 3 points per unit
Required Cargo Space: 1 unit
Utility: Keep your ship in good condition and not suffering from any major malfunctions. Regular maintenance can be forgone, but this will drastically shorten the time until the next major overhaul.

Fuel (Tech Level 3): The fuel you need to keep the Reliant's engines feed for 1 year of normal operations. Engaging in combat or similarly intense situations may result in systems stress and thus increase maintenance requirements. The Reliant's engines are downward compatible - they can run on fuel for Tech Level 2 & 1 engines without problem if need be, but they'll need more of it. You'll need heavy industry to make more fuel.

Cost: 3 points per unit
Required Cargo Space: 1 unit
Utility: No fuel, no power. No power, your ship becomes an inert chunk of metal.
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This is why I've been pushing for Tech Level 3 Heavy Industry. It's not a matter of pushing for better tech sooner, it's a matter of keeping our ship capable of operating at all. The better tech sooner is a mere side benefit.

I do not want to go traveling through the warp in an un-maintained ship, and neither should you.
 
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Enthusiast#117 said:
If the population grows beyond that point, we will also need to stockpile Food for long journeys, and given that on turn 1 we grew by 39 people, that's approximately 8 years until 15 thousand is breached.
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You may want to check your math on that. I think you're of by an order of magnitude.

But yeah, the spare parts is an enormous worry, one I didn't fully realize because I got confused between the yearly spare parts and the massive overhauls.
 
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