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For the Swarm! (Zerg - Multicross SI)

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TheLurker said:
For the record this idea of cloning clones and deteriorating over time is actually a fairly common sci-fi trope and the central plot point of the amazing game series "destroy all humans"
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It's also slightly grounded in facts, but in fuzzy, outdated "facts" that were disproven later on in a way that made the trope impossible.

Basically, blame what went wrong with Dolly the Lamb. That's where the idea started, but it was later proven that Dolly went wrong was messy epigenetic and telomere problems caused by the style of cloning. More modern forms of cloning don't have those issues, so the "clones of clones" problem comes up as the problems of aesexual reproduction: Extremely slow mutation. Any disease works on the whole species.

Of course, we have no clue which one of the half-dozen or so forms of cloning that are known currently the Grineer use, and they might well be using a form of cloning that hasn't been invented yet. And the "cloning degeneration" might actually be a persistent plague or set of diseases that everyone is affected by in some way, but the Grineer don't have the genetic diversity to keep it from ruining them.
 
Morphic Tide said:
Of course, we have no clue which one of the half-dozen or so forms of cloning that are known currently the Grineer use, and they might well be using a form of cloning that hasn't been invented yet. And the "cloning degeneration" might actually be a persistent plague or set of diseases that everyone is affected by in some way, but the Grineer don't have the genetic diversity to keep it from ruining them.
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That... actually makes a fair amount of sense.
 
Or all the genetic backups could've been obliterated during the Old War or something, so the Grineer have to clone from clones.

Or it could've been purposeful. The Orokin were golden assholes, makes sense they'd want to control their creations as much as possible. "Do as we say, take your injections on time and you won't waste away like the idiots who try to run."

The world may never know.
 
TheLurker said:
For the record this idea of cloning clones and deteriorating over time is actually a fairly common sci-fi trope and the central plot point of the amazing game series "destroy all humans"
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I think the concept comes from the whole telomerase thing, how DNA cells divide by mitosis and then shorten their telomeres. The notion is that cells can only divide so many times before their telomeres become too short to continue. So, the theory goes, if you clone a creature based on a cell with shortened telomeres, then presumably the whole clone is just that much closer to the limit of how many times it can divide. And if the cells run out of telomeres, (in theory) either they can't divide any more, or they start to have errors in the DNA when they do divide. The thought was that this is why humans and a lot of other creatures seem to have an age cap.

So if you just take that notion and run with it, then eventually your clone army falls apart because your clone-of-a-clone-of-a-clone is just too close to death from the start.

However, nowadays we're not actually sure if that's even how it really works, since it turns out that some cells can divide without shortening their telomeres, and, even if it did work that way, you could just clone based on stem cells which use telomerase to add length back to the telomeres and thus can supposedly divide indefinitely.

edit: And ninja'd by @Morphic Tide
 
Morphic Tide said:
Why stop there? You can get 40k involved, or Halo. Really, all the things can be added.
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Specifically Starcraft/Kancolle fanfiction. Halo/Kancolle's been done before and I categorically refuse to write 40k fanfic.

I mean we've got great ships. The Hyperion. The Bucephalus, the Ganthrithor, the Spear of Adun, a million and one Zerg Leviathans.

Why not? It could be fun.
 
Generic_Generica said:
Specifically Starcraft/Kancolle fanfiction. Halo/Kancolle's been done before and I categorically refuse to write 40k fanfic.

I mean we've got great ships. The Hyperion. The Bucephalus, the Ganthrithor, the Spear of Adun, a million and one Zerg Leviathans.

Why not? It could be fun.
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Don't forget the Arc Ships and the Cybros. Both are potential planet busters, although the Arc Ships aren't built to do actual planet busting.

Note: This is going Death Star on a planet, not the glassing Motherships can pull. As in the planet is physically broken apart. Cybros ain't easy to deal with.

Oh, there's also the Zerg's never-shown-on-screen long distance/large scale transports, which are to Leviathans as Arc Ships are to Motherships. And the colony ships of the Terran that brought the convicts to the planets shown in Starcraft. Fuck-huge bullshit size, but ultimately harmless. Just ignore the fleets of planet wreckers they can store...
 
ltmauve said:
Secondary objective complete :p

Though I can't say I've ever heard of a SC/KC fic before. Maybe try sticking the plot bunny to someone else in the appropriate threads?
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Perhaps.

I mean let's be honest it'd be kancolle in name only. If it were to become a thing it'd be more 'Starcraft with shipgirls.'

Not sure how that'd work out.

Sleep nao. Type later.
 
Generic_Generica said:
Perhaps.

I mean let's be honest it'd be kancolle in name only. If it were to become a thing it'd be more 'Starcraft with shipgirls.'

Not sure how that'd work out.

Sleep nao. Type later.
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One last thing: Amon can allow for Abyssal stand ins. With each Starcraft race having it's own Abyssal-like Void Shade shipgirl counterparts.
 
Generic_Generica said:
Because fuck Warframe I wanted out of this fucking place already.
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There go my hopes of Genetica and Lotus team-up

Generic_Generica said:
Should've just said 'really gorram fast.'

Edit later
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Reminds me of B5, of all things: "They're coming at us fast!" "How fast?" "Really fast" "Be faster!"

ArchAIngel said:
Even if it's just Ordis getting a hug. That poor AI needs so many hugs.
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Not an AI. A Cephalon. I understand that it might seem petty, but there are very important in-universe reasons for this distinction.
 
leteatbee said:
Not an AI. A Cephalon. I understand that it might seem petty, but there are very important in-universe reasons for this distinction.
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Would you mind stating these distinctions? The main thing I can think of is hardware-based weirdness, with Cephalons being either hardware-based intelligences as opposed to the software-based AIs, or Cephalons are some kind of mental upload based intelligence.
 
Morphic Tide said:
Would you mind stating these distinctions? The main thing I can think of is hardware-based weirdness, with Cephalons being either hardware-based intelligences as opposed to the software-based AIs, or Cephalons are some kind of mental upload based intelligence.
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Warframe spoilers below.

Cephalons are mental uploads.

The Orokin feared sentient machines, which is why they almost killed off the guy who designed the Sentients.

Which is why Cephalons exist. But Cephalons well...

In life, Ordan Karris was the Beast of Bones, a bloodsoaked warrior. He was offered eternal youth, an opportunity to become Orokin by the Council of Seven.

He rejected the offer.

Violently. Killed most of the council of seven.

But the Orokin are immortal and undying, and so Ordan Karris was stripped of his memory, enslaved and made docile, servile, bent to the Orokin's will in order to serve the Tenno. Programmed to love his Operator and serve faithfully.

Ordan Karris was lobotomized and uploaded. Cephalon Ordis was born from the ruins of his mind.

By the way yes, the Orokin are gigantic douchecanoes.
 
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TheLurker said:
For the record this idea of cloning clones and deteriorating over time is actually a fairly common sci-fi trope and the central plot point of the amazing game series "destroy all humans"
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it's also the fatal flaw of the Gorg in the fantastic book The True Meaning of Smekday, which the movie Home (starring Sheldor) was based off of.
[spoilers]The original Gorg was the last Nimrog, because the Nimrog were all assholes
(there was a 300 year civil war over a parking space). He ended up cloning himself over and over, and made ships to destroy planets to pay all of the clones. This lead to an allergy to cats, which lead to the heroes of the book to clone a cat over and over, which made them leave because of the millions of cats now flowing out of their teleporters.[/spoiler]

There was a line that I think it was from the book, but I'm not sure, about how someone would copy CDs to blank disks for long road trips, but they would never sound as good, and if they had to copy those it sounded even worse.
 
Morphic Tide said:
Would you mind stating these distinctions? The main thing I can think of is hardware-based weirdness, with Cephalons being either hardware-based intelligences as opposed to the software-based AIs, or Cephalons are some kind of mental upload based intelligence.
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Well.
Generic_Generica said:
Warframe spoilers below.

Cephalons are mental uploads.

The Orokin feared sentient machines, which is why they almost killed off the guy who designed the Sentients.

Which is why Cephalons exist. But Cephalons well...

In life, Ordan Karris was the Beast of Bones, a bloodsoaked warrior. He was offered eternal youth, an opportunity to become Orokin by the Council of Seven.

He rejected the offer.

Violently. Killed most of the council of seven.

But the Orokin are immortal and undying, and so Ordan Karris was stripped of his memory, enslaved and made docile, servile, bent to the Orokin's will in order to serve the Tenno. Programmed to love his Operator and serve faithfully.

Ordan Karris was lobotomized and uploaded. Cephalon Ordis was born from the ruins of his mind.

By the way yes, the Orokin are gigantic douchecanoes.
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A few more things that I think are important. Spoilers for Natah and The Second Dream follow:

The Sentients are implied to be AIs who were sent to terraform an exoplanet far away from the Origin/Solar system. Somewhere along the way they went librarian-poo, and came back sick and twisted, inimic to organic life.
Shit happened, and there are now only two remain. The important bit is that while AI research was restrained in the Orokin Empire to begin with (And restraint isn't something you normally associate with the Orokin; these people have more in common with, say, Leanan Sidhe, than your regular everyday humans), literally everyone is scared shitless of them coming back.
But since most Warframe tech requires heavy automation, it still needs AI oversight. The Cephalons were the answer. The Orokin would upload a mind, - erasing most memories in the process (Ordon Karris's personality was heavily mutilated during that. There were a lot of reasons why the Orokin had to go), and everything was sort of working. Until The Sentients came.
 
Generic_Generica said:
… Were they trying to board Steve?!

"Overmind. We have boarders." Sarah stood from her cross-legged position next to my massive form.

"Inertial dampeners highly advanced." Moriarty messaged. "Engineering surprisingly efficient.. Boarding parties enroute."

Yes, the Grineer are fucking insane.
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Oh wow, I'm not sure if it was crazy genius, crazy awesome or just ax-crazy
 
Generic_Generica said:
Specifically Starcraft/Kancolle fanfiction. Halo/Kancolle's been done before and I categorically refuse to write 40k fanfic.

I mean we've got great ships. The Hyperion. The Bucephalus, the Ganthrithor, the Spear of Adun, a million and one Zerg Leviathans.

Why not? It could be fun.
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Dont forget the purifier ship.
 
Generic_Generica said:
Warframe spoilers below.

Cephalons are mental uploads.

The Orokin feared sentient machines, which is why they almost killed off the guy who designed the Sentients.

Which is why Cephalons exist. But Cephalons well...

In life, Ordan Karris was the Beast of Bones, a bloodsoaked warrior. He was offered eternal youth, an opportunity to become Orokin by the Council of Seven.

He rejected the offer.

Violently. Killed most of the council of seven.

But the Orokin are immortal and undying, and so Ordan Karris was stripped of his memory, enslaved and made docile, servile, bent to the Orokin's will in order to serve the Tenno. Programmed to love his Operator and serve faithfully.

Ordan Karris was lobotomized and uploaded. Cephalon Ordis was born from the ruins of his mind.

By the way yes, the Orokin are gigantic douchecanoes.
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Actually, Ordis' was a very particular case where the procedure was done as a punishment. Suda did it voluntarily for the sole purpose of keeping her memories. She was an archivist or historian of some sort, and her advanced age was causing her to lose the memories she had spent her whole lifetime acquiring and storing.
 
Nihilo said:
Actually, Ordis' was a very particular case where the procedure was done as a punishment. Suda did it voluntarily for the sole purpose of keeping her memories. She was an archivist or historian of some sort, and her advanced age was causing her to lose the memories she had spent her whole lifetime acquiring and storing.
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I just finished Octavia's quest, I did not know about Suda and I assumed Ordis was the norm and not the exception to the norm.

... I still think the Orokin're assholes though. Just the leaders, not the general populous obviously but my god did they get up to some weird shit.
 
Generic_Generica said:
Specifically Starcraft/Kancolle fanfiction. Halo/Kancolle's been done before and I categorically refuse to write 40k fanfic.

I mean we've got great ships. The Hyperion. The Bucephalus, the Ganthrithor, the Spear of Adun, a million and one Zerg Leviathans.

Why not? It could be fun.
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Funnily enough, Sarah Kerrigan's Leviathan already has Izsha, who sort of fulfils that role.
 
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