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For the Swarm! (Zerg - Multicross SI)

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armorfiend said:
Yeah- Commanders make a neat base for a story, but by their nature they just overpower everything wayyyy too quickly for most storytelling tools to survive. The four-way Mass Effect silliness is going through that right now; the only thing that lets any antagonists survive is bad philosophy ;)
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I nerfed my Commander by having the nanites only affect metals. Then I realized that using blocks of Osmium for drop pods was on the table, Thermite only needs to be oxidized to get working, the Imperium still uses large amounts of copper for wires and more. Seriously, I'm going to have to actually ask people about how metallic Necrodermis is, just to see if the Necrons are vulnerable to the nanites.

Granted, I also nerf some of the other tech in the setting, like Ion Shields, which I made highly vulnerable to EMPs under the logic of ions being highly responsive to magnetism, and most explosives are not available to the Commander SI, but it's still a Commander. Seriously, at this point the most threatening faction will be the Tau, because they use ceramic for almost all their armor and casings. The Tyrranid just get ground into oblivion under the weight of numbers that is instant recycling of all the material in units they break, and Orks face the problem of their equipment being dissolved for metal mid-battle.

Basically, only metals are usable, but that's still crazy strong, especially with the second chapter including the claiming of all the tech in a Knight Engine. The justification for that is that metals are a lot easier to make and work with than ceramics, and Knight Engines are made to have low-tech maintenance. At this point, the only slowdown is the lack of ability to work Warptech in simulations... Oh, and the fact that a bunch of the good stuff can't be used in space.
 
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You know, considering it will come up at some point in this story... what would happen if the Borg infect the Zerg?
While I am 99% sure the Overmind would come out the victor of that mental battle, the idea of Zerglings with phasers and shields scares the shit out of me.

My thought process is this; from Steinman's own research notes, we can see that the Zerg rapidly adapt to literally everything in their immediate environment in real time, including themselves. I can see Borg nanites just being adapted to and subsumed into the great entity that is the Zerg. Meanwhile, the Borg's subspace hivemind would be nothing against the sheer weight of the Overmind's psychic presence, quickly drowning it out and re-establishing itself as the undisputed master of all things Zerg. Though, not without a moment of control being lost and, if only for a brief period of time, the Borg would have complete control over the Swarm.

Which would be interesting.

Almost as interesting as the sheer slaughter of all things Borg that the new Zorg Swarm would enact.
It would be the whole Fluidic Space fiasco all over again, only worse.
 
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Mgunh1 said:
You know, considering it will come up at some point in this story... what would happen if the Borg infect the Zerg?
While I am 99% sure the Overmind would come out the victor of that mental battle, the idea of Zerglings with phasers and shields scares the shit out of me.

My thought process is this; from Steinman's own research notes, we can see that the Zerg rapidly adapt to literally everything in their immediate environment in real time, including themselves. I can see Borg nanites just being adapted to and subsumed into the great entity that is the Zerg. Meanwhile, the Borg's subspace hivemind would be nothing against the sheer weight of the Overmind's psychic presence, quickly drowning it out and re-establishing itself as the undisputed master of all things Zerg. Though, not without a moment of control being lost and, if only for a brief period of time, the Borg would have complete control over the Swarm.

Which would be interesting.

Almost as interesting as the sheer slaughter of all things Borg that the new Zorg Swarm would enact.
It would be the whole Fluidic Space fiasco all over again, only worse.
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Actually, due to the way the Borg work, the Borg-Zerg would be controlled by both at the same time, with little either side could do about it. The Zerg use Psionics, while the Borg use pure tech. The two methods can't directly counter each other, and they are both too decentralized in how they work to have either get rid of the other's connection.

Unless one side or the other figures out an interface, the shared units would have to be used for communication by... well... Interpritive Dance...
 
MTB said:
While you are at it - Zerg meet 8472?
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I would think that 8472 would be treated like Protoss. You can't infest them, but they'd be great to adapt against. That infectious cellular structure the Undine have would be brilliant for the Zerg to willingly be infected by, just to adapt their immune systems to it.

That said, Undine bioships might be an easier target for Zerg infestation.
Morphic Tide said:
Actually, due to the way the Borg work, the Borg-Zerg would be controlled by both at the same time, with little either side could do about it. The Zerg use Psionics, while the Borg use pure tech. The two methods can't directly counter each other, and they are both too decentralized in how they work to have either get rid of the other's connection.

Unless one side or the other figures out an interface, the shared units would have to be used for communication by... well... Interpritive Dance...
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Actually, the Zerg are very centralised; the whole Overmind thing.
The Borg are a mass collection of voices that can only agree on one thing: reproduction, hence the whole assimilate-or-die business and the later adaption of Queens in order to give the Borg better tactical and strategic thought.

However, you have a point. The two communicate through completely different methods. The interesting factor is if the Borg can cut out the psionic link faster than the Zerg can adapt around the nanites.
 
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Mgunh1 said:
Actually, the Zerg are very centralised; the whole Overmind thing.
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I mean the connection itself is decentralized. For the Zerg, every nerve cell is a connection to the Hive Mind, at the least. For the Borg, the nanites allow for easy adjustment of their assimilation method, and may be able to make connections by the dozen in each unit.

Mgunh1 said:
faster than the Zerg can adapt around the nanites.
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SI meta knowledge/knowing it's nanites that spread through the cardiovascular system make that very easy. Heck, the Zerg probably already have a counter. Ever heard of how Horseshoe Crab immune systems work? That setup can work quite well against nanite infections. It's very good at dealing with particulate contamination of all sorts
 
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MTB said:
Heh, Darwin Awards are a real-life thing! If people are stupid enough to do this stuff, or <political statements redacted>, or <history-related stuff redacted>, they would also go for this!
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The thing is Generic-SI has noooo interest in trying to uplift the crazy stupid conspiracy political activists.

Also... Eh... That'd be a really awkward conversation.

Generic: So. m-dawg.

Moriarty: Overmind.

Generic: Can we get like an uplifting kit?

Moriarty: What.

Generic: You know, potions of immortality and good health and all tha-

Moriarty: Reason.

Generic: To... give to some other aliens?

Moriarty: ... Why.

Generic: Because it'd... be... the right thing to do?

Moriarty: Nice thing to do illogical reasoning. Zerg gain nothing from this arrangement. Have no use for allies. Have no need for industry or farming or mechanization. Completely self-sufficient. Uplifting package illogical expenditure of resources that sees the Zerg little to no benefit. Would also allow potential enemies to study gene-sequences and Zerg biology. Unacceptable.

Generic: Be... Uh... Look allies are actually pretty-

Moriarty: Furthermore, most sentient species selfish. Greedy. Select individuals would stockpile uplifting carepackages to gain leverage over those individuals without. Power balance on planets projected to-

Generic: Okay I get it it'd be a bad idea.

Moriarty: Pure uplifting package bad idea yes, however, potential for delayed hyper-evolution virus to be placed in package would outweigh costs. Furthermore, sentient species lack proper containment protocols. Breach in security as sample is analyzed could lead to infest-

Generic: Wha- No! No trojan horses! No we're not infesting anymore planets Moriarty.

Moriarty: As the Overmind commands.

Generic: Man it'd be real nice to be a PA commander right now. I bet they don't have completely amoral subordinates who freak them the hell out. :V

---

Yeah awkward conversation.

I mean I guess it could happen but it's highly highly unlikely to happen if only because it's got the potential to end horrifically.

As with all things involving the Zerg.
 
just tell moriarty this, use race as ally/willing slave/tool using race/proxy puppet to do your will without tipping people off about you.
 
Well I wasn't talking about giving them uplift packages, many Krogan would be all for becoming Zerg, it makes them stronger and gives them new weapons.

The Rachni queen would probably be more than willing to become Zerg and she has a few useful abilities, namely giving your overlords and things like that interstellar telepathic ranges.

The Quarians as a whole are unlikely to join but you should get a couple dozen willing to become Zerg if it means that they no longer need to wear their suits.

Vorcha are so numerous and varied that it depends on which group you approach and you only need three to make a stable population and they can all be siblings as well.
 
...Vorcha are bullshit... Seriously, they are non-genetic personal evolution. The Primal Zerg would tell them to slow the fuck down. The Swarm Zerg would freak out about them because they are so absurdly adaptable that the Zerg pale in comparison.

Rachni... Are mostly just long-range coordination. Their big threat is being hive-minded tool users.

Krogan would be good stock for a new strain of Zerg, as they have natural durability comparable to lower end ME armor. They needed fracking cannons to kill each other with black powder.
 
Morphic Tide said:
...Vorcha are bullshit... Seriously, they are non-genetic personal evolution. The Primal Zerg would tell them to slow the fuck down. The Swarm Zerg would freak out about them because they are so absurdly adaptable that the Zerg pale in comparison.
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Vorcha aren't as bullshit as you make them out to be, what they have is essentially targeted/focused faster scaring using base stem cells and while that extends beyond what we normally consider scaring they can't pass their adaptations down and have a limited supply.

Morphic Tide said:
Rachni... Are mostly just long-range coordination. Their big threat is being hive-minded tool users
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Exactly, they would be useful and interesting, they also create workers and warriors faster than the Zerg IIRC.

Morphic Tide said:
Krogan would be good stock for a new strain of Zerg, as they have natural durability comparable to lower end ME armor. They needed fracking cannons to kill each other with black powder.
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And they grow fast in their base form which the Zerg would further speed up and any Zerg fighting with them would be better coordinated.

To me the Quarians are more of a curiosity than anything else, they may be useful but meh.

Another interesting thing to grab would be the Thorian, and maybe one of the leviathans.
 
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shade argost said:
Circus aren't as bullshit as you make them out to be, what they have is essentially targeted/focused faster scaring using base stem cells and while that extends beyond what we normally consider scaring they can't pass their adaptations down and have a limited supply.
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They can adapt to toxic air. They can become almost immune to fire. They can get ridiculous durability from many sorts of trauma. They can regrow their fucking arms. For something that doesn't change genetics at all, that is bullshit.
 
... You know this line of discussion is reminding me of a fairly excellent Starcraft/Mass Effect fic I read over on SB for some reason. What was it... Hrm...

It was by this guy, the one with the Duran avvie. Hrm...

Anyways yeah infested Vorcha would be bullshit.

Like less bullshit than zergy-Avatars because Avatars had the whole regeneration thing in XCOM 2 as well along with prodigous amounts of mind-dakka but still bullshit.
 
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You know what's ever more bullshit? Condensing all of your Zerg and acquired 'samples' into one avatar-ala-prototype-sliverwalker.
 
shade argost said:
Exactly, they would be useful and interesting, they also create workers and warriors faster than the Zerg IIRC.
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...BUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLSHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIITT!
shade argost said:
And they grow fast in their base form which the Zerg would further speed up and any Zerg fighting with them would be better coordinated.
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Not necessarily better coordinated, but having the night-immortal Infested blend of Vorcha and Krogan as the vanguard would be a big plus.
shade argost said:
and maybe one of the leviathans.
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no. we are not touching the space magic cuttlefish, we are going to run if we see them. we cannot risk messing with the space magic cuttlefish.
 
Morphic Tide said:
They can adapt to toxic air. They can become almost immune to fire. They can get ridiculous durability from many sorts of trauma. They can regrow their fucking arms. For something that doesn't change genetics at all, that is bullshit.
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Humans scar in their lungs when they live in toxic atmospheres, in Vorcha that is directed to creating filters, Humans get burnt a lot and they gain resistance to fire, Lizards can regrow their tails, really is just a difference in the way they scar and their immune systems compared to humans, Krogan don't scar the same way as humans, their scars are mostly ornamental discolourations.

Morphic Tide said:
Not necessarily better coordinated, but having the night-immortal Infested blend of Vorcha and Krogan as the vanguard would be a big plus.
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More they would fight a little differently like in small groups instead of one big swarm with more efficiency maybe, Krogan shock troopers bring a squad scale central sapience to a swarm making them fight smarter not harder.
 
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Generic_Generica said:
...

Excuse me I need to change my panties. One second.
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o_O ... ... So many things I could say about this... but I like my reproductive organs right where they're situated; so I shan't comment further.

[edit] Wow, that was a quick edit... and why doesn't the system acknowledged that you had edited your post. Oh well, at least you cleared up the meaning of the previous statement.
 
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WCSII said:
o_O ... ... So many things I could say about this... but I like my reproductive organs right where they're situated; so I shan't comment further.
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I edited that comment right after I made it because it was either toilet humor or sexually inappropriate even if it was made in a joking manner.

But... Yeah. Here have some brain bleach.

 
Oh, eating the slivers and gaining their abilities, OP bullshit away.

Other than that eating Nids from 40K if you can, Scrin C&C, Xenomorphs from AvP, the Beast from Homeworld and a prototype entity, probably go prototype before beast though, the seeds from Phantasy Star Universe might be interesting, Xenoblade chronicles, both old and X, has some weird and interesting creatures, X has a creature who's bottom half of their legs is made of elastic like muscle cells, they can about double their height.
 
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