There are only so many ways to accomplish that, and I don't think Kiara has access to any of them. Plus he just got command seal'd, so he must be in telepathic contact with someone, and I think he'd know if that someone wasn't Kiara.
We don't know what Kiara has. That's what makes her the wild card in this Grail War. And note the timing on the check for telepathic contact: He didn't do it until he noticed the command seal and lack of mana. Plenty of time for her to jump bodies.
 
We don't know what Kiara has. That's what makes her the wild card in this Grail War. And note the timing on the check for telepathic contact: He didn't do it until he noticed the command seal and lack of mana. Plenty of time for her to jump bodies.

Okay, where are you getting body-jumping from?! I know that just happened to us but that was a pretty specific circumstance. It's not a power that Kiara has ever been known to have.

As for what she has, she has super drugs and a cult of non-Magi, she is expressly started to be less dangerous in this incarnation than she was in Extra-verse. That is to say, this version of Kiara is not going to turn into a beast and is not manipulative or empowered on nearly the same scale as she was in that universe. Rabbit's specifically said that she's a 'middle ground' Kiara, not the innocent from Grand Order (pre demon pillar GO Kiara was a genuinely good person) but also not the Beast/Anti-Saviour from Extra. She's cruel and dangerous, but nowhere near her Extra level of such.
 
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[X] Ruler shouted from the bottom of her heart, "Rider, please wake up!"
 
Okay, where are you getting body-jumping from?! I know that just happened to us but that was a pretty specific circumstance. It's not a power that Kiara has ever been known to have.
For one, this is neither the Kiara who works by manipulating a super-internet so powerful it can replicate Magecraft and brainwash people nor the Chaldea psychologist whose latent desires allow her to be possessed by Beast III. So drawing assumptions from those two sources are inherently limited in useful intel. Two... how do you think the Puppet-maker's remained alive after so many years? Touko Aozaki has hopped from artificial body to body before. And given she's already had her knowledge shared/expanded, we can't rule out that she's also involved with Touko's "partners". Similarly, we know Grey was made to be a container for Artoria's soul. And the Einzenberns' Homunculus' purpose as the Grail Container was to hold seven Heroic Spirits.

So yeah. My leading theory is that Olga as a person is dead and Kiara has taken over her body.
 
[X] Ruler shouted from the bottom of her heart, "Rider, please wake up!"
 
For one, this is neither the Kiara who works by manipulating a super-internet so powerful it can replicate Magecraft and brainwash people nor the Chaldea psychologist whose latent desires allow her to be possessed by Beast III. So drawing assumptions from those two sources are inherently limited in useful intel. Two... how do you think the Puppet-maker's remained alive after so many years? Touko Aozaki has hopped from artificial body to body before. And given she's already had her knowledge shared/expanded, we can't rule out that she's also involved with Touko's "partners". Similarly, we know Grey was made to be a container for Artoria's soul. And the Einzenberns' Homunculus' purpose as the Grail Container was to hold seven Heroic Spirits.

So yeah. My leading theory is that Olga as a person is dead and Kiara has taken over her body.
Okay but why on earth would Kiara be involved with Touko?

Like... I don't get where you're pulling this from. You're just assuming connections and abilities for Kiara that we have no evidence and no foreshadowing for.
 
Okay but why on earth would Kiara be involved with Touko?

Like... I don't get where you're pulling this from. You're just assuming connections and abilities for Kiara that we have no evidence and no foreshadowing for.
Well, like I said. She's the wild card. She was the last faction we investigated before the Endgame hit, so we know nothing in-story beyond the cult drug and the hypnosis of Olga. So from there extrapolations, identical to you did when you initially refuted me, must be made. From that acceptance of reality, all I have said progresses. Either Kiara had full confidence she'd kill Jeanne or she was stupid. The former makes more sense as a story and an analysis of the woman. Either Kiara is dead or is no longer connected to Arjuna post-command. We have refuted the stupidity, and know that the other path is being Hans' pawn. So the likley situation is she survives. Identifying her method of survival draws us to a Magus of great lineage of power made putty in Kiara hands by the disgrace of others, the trauma of near-death, and tainted whispers of vile healing. The method of transferring a soul to another body comes from a variety of sources, not just the Puppet-maker. She is merely the most well-known practitioner of it.
 
Well, like I said. She's the wild card. She was the last faction we investigated before the Endgame hit, so we know nothing in-story beyond the cult drug and the hypnosis of Olga. So from there extrapolations, identical to you did when you initially refuted me, must be made. From that acceptance of reality, all I have said progresses. Either Kiara had full confidence she'd kill Jeanne or she was stupid. The former makes more sense as a story and an analysis of the woman. Either Kiara is dead or is no longer connected to Arjuna post-command. We have refuted the stupidity, and know that the other path is being Hans' pawn. So the likley situation is she survives. Identifying her method of survival draws us to a Magus of great lineage of power made putty in Kiara hands by the disgrace of others, the trauma of near-death, and tainted whispers of vile healing. The method of transferring a soul to another body comes from a variety of sources, not just the Puppet-maker. She is merely the most well-known practitioner of it.
One point of order, Olga isn't hypnotized, just drugged. It's all the drug.

More importantly, if Kiara took over Olga she'd have lost Archer's command seals because that's how rabbit literally just demonstrated body switching works. She would have assassin's command seals, either instead or as well.

So for your theory to be correct you are relying on two servants somehow not noticing such a transfer, both of whom hate Kiara.

Rider might get fooled by Minerva on account of being unconscious during the switch, but both Assassin and Archer getting bamboozled while conscious and aware?

No, this theory of yours is a wild Shadowrun at best.
 
One point of order, Olga isn't hypnotized, just drugged. It's all the drug.

More importantly, if Kiara took over Olga she'd have lost Archer's command seals because that's how rabbit literally just demonstrated body switching works. She would have assassin's command seals, either instead or as well.

So for your theory to be correct you are relying on two servants somehow not noticing such a transfer, both of whom hate Kiara.

Rider might get fooled by Minerva on account of being unconscious during the switch, but both Assassin and Archer getting bamboozled while conscious and aware?

No, this theory of yours is a wild Shadowrun at best.
Believe what you wish. If this deliberate twisting of what I'm saying makes you happy, then go have fun.
 
How am I twisting it?

No seriously, I am taking your points as presented, I am not making any attempt to twist or deliberately misunderstand.
Because you act like I didn't explain the sequence of events:
And note the timing on the check for telepathic contact: He didn't do it until he noticed the command seal and lack of mana. Plenty of time for her to jump bodies.
My theory was the command happened, then the body jump, then Arjuna checks. And you claimed "oh, she'd have lost the command seals of Archer once she transferred", as if I claimed the command had been given after the switch. So you either didn't read what I put down because you got overly emotional, or you are twisting my words intentionally.

From that point, I have no reason to respond to any of your rebuttals: Either way, your head is not in the game, and you need to take a moment or two to cool off.
 
Given how openly gleeful you've been about us getting shafted into a terrible situation with a much higher bad end potential I'm honestly not surprised.

Oh, should I have raged about it with a wrath of thousand salty weaboos?

As far as the ways we could get shafted go, this is at least interesting.

And I did warn against picking my vote when I voted for the spear, did say that Magecraft is the most likely and the fastest way to win barring opening the box, which was more or less confirmed off-screen when the old fart raised a possibility of his plan failing if Minerva's body gets destroyed all at once, did warn against telling Carmilla that we are Brie and did offer to stay calm and play dead until she went away, we wouldn't have even had to wait for long, she was already bailing out to go on a crazy adventure to rescue her master.

Only now we're participating in it.

As bait and a hostage.

Eh, whatever, Spectral Waltz, I don't really feel that bad about it.

[X] Ruler saw a man with crimson hair wield blades of black and white come to her aid.

SHIROU INTERRUPT
Let's hope he forgot to return his plot armor back into armory after finishing his protagonist career.
 
My theory was the command happened, then the body jump, then Arjuna checks. And you claimed "oh, she'd have lost the command seals of Archer once she transferred", as if I claimed the command had been given after the switch. So you either didn't read what I put down because you got overly emotional, or you are twisting my words intentionally.
Believe it or not that part of your theory simply didn't parse for me.

I'll allow that hypothetically the sequence of events you described could occur but that's a very short timeframe for performing what I expect in Kiara's situation is a complicated ritual.

Moreover, I still feel that there is a fundamental flaw in the assumption that Kiara has access to body-stealing magic in the first place. There's no reason to believe she does.

Oh, should I have raged about it with a wrath of thousand salty weaboos?
Don't you dare belittle me for being invested in the eventual happiness of our characters.

I don't begrudge you your opinions or choices, but you don't get to treat me poorly just because I don't share those sentiments.
 
Don't you dare belittle me for being invested in the eventual happiness of our characters.

I don't begrudge you your opinions or choices, but you don't get to treat me poorly just because I don't share those sentiments.

I don't say that you did that, and I'm sorry if you felt like this was phrased to describe your reaction specifically, that really wasn't my intention, I say that I could have, but decided not to, because I actively expect to get screwed while participating in Rabbit's Quests, whether of my own volition or just because.

So, lol, if I choose to enjoy the clusterfuck we found ourselves in, I don't really see the problem. Or why my opinions on how to prevent the clusterfucks I would come to enjoy should be ignored.

Edit: okay, new policy, me. Read update, vote, go away, at least for awhile.
 
Edit: okay, new policy, me. Read update, vote, go away, at least for awhile.
I can sympathize. I actually took a break where I didn't do anything but vote for awhile when I felt I was getting too invested in the quest and getting emotional. I actually think that things went wrong in an interesting way myself, even if this wasn't a desired turn of events.
 
I say that I could have, but decided not to, because I actively expect to get screwed while participating in Rabbit's Quests, whether of my own volition or just because.
Oi. This isn't Re:incarnation, nor yet is it Re:loaded. Falsus Magica had twists, but never did we get shafted.

We're not walking the knife's edge any more where any mistake sets us back horrifically. Those days are behind us now, and I strongly suggest you leave the fatalism behind.
 
I mean, we're in a lot of trouble, but it's not like we have no options. Convincing the others that we're Brie may be difficult, but as long as Minerva isn't around to throw wrenches in the mix it'll be doable (and even if she is for some reason, I still have faith Medb or Ruler will get it). Surviving Carmilla will be interesting, but if we can get a little distance, Cu can bail us out (hopefully without blowing our last command seal on it).

Edit: We're not in our original body, but this one, while weaker than our first body, is still perfectly serviceable and just looks like a younger version of what we used it. Could have been far worse. If we're breaking down, then our post-war project could be tracking down Touko, or spending enough time with Hans to get his help.

Things are bad, but that doesn't mean they can't get better.
 
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Oi. This isn't Re:incarnation, nor yet is it Re:loaded. Falsus Magica had twists, but never did we get shafted.

We're not walking the knife's edge any more where any mistake sets us back horrifically. Those days are behind us now, and I strongly suggest you leave the fatalism behind.

You are right, this isn't Reincarnation, because in that quest there were reloads and you know, reincarnations. :V

Here we die for real.
Look, you won't dissuade me from this outlook, because it's in part a coping mechanism I consider essential for myself if I want to participate in this quest.

And because this is literally what happened. I said that I expected to get screwed for our poor decision-making, and lo and behold, here we are. Even I agree that killing Minerva and not getting body-jacked by her would have been an objectively better outcome, and I like this one.
 
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Actually, why doesn't anyone vote for Shirou to help Ruler? Seems completely in-character for him, she even looks like his waifu, and it's not like he's a pushover.

He could always die, but that's, like, always a given, the guy participates in Grail Wars for a living, he knows what he signed up for.
 
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