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Fate/Revelation Online

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I like how Sacchi got the [Last Attack] in, and did so not only out of concern for her friends (rather than any sort of calculation or aggressiveness), but if I'm reading it right, using the spell she charges them up with.
 
Frakir's brother said:
Even if we limit it to what you mentioned, they had two goals, with a third optional.
One: don't die. Check
Two: rescue the kids. Check
Three: Kill the Boss. Check
They formulated a plan based on what they had, with no reinforcements in range of response, then executed it with minimal divergence. I'm sure you've heard the truism "No plan survives contact with the enemy" and they got around that. It isn't a battle to be enshrined in song or anything, but it is worthy of praise.
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They formulated basic plan and executed it because there was no real room to fail. They are not children, but Middle Liners who spent months fighting mobs. Something like this is by no means exceptional for people of their level. Indeed, if any other Midlaner Group hard-countered their foe to such extent and had such gear, i'd expect them to manage this kind of encounter as well.

Really, this is case study of difference between Front and Middle Liners. They failed to PM others about this threat, which boils down to them not feeling the fear of death, such as it is. Then they recklessly engaged enemy with no real preparation, escape routes or really anything besides hope that they will pull through somehow.

Only reason they are not dead is because demon just happened to be super weak against super powerful stuff they just happened to have. They got insanely lucky, to put it lightly.
 
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Wolfy said:
They formulated basic plan and executed it because there was no real room to fail. They are not children, but Middle Liners who spent months fighting mobs. Something like this is by no means exceptional for people of their level. Indeed, if any other Midlaner Group hard-countered their foe to such extent and had such gear, i'd expect them to manage this kind of encounter as well.

Really, this is case study of difference between Front and Middle Liners. They failed to PM others about this threat, which boils down to them not feeling the fear of death, such as it is. Then they recklessly engaged enemy with no real preparation, escape routes or really anything besides hope that they will pull through somehow.

Only reason they are not dead is because demon just happened to be super weak against super powerful stuff they just happened to have. They got insanely lucky, to put it lightly.
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Where was it said that the Demon was weak against Numerology? Rather than being a Balmung>Dragon situation the ritual of the nineteen strikes dealt enough damage to almost finish it. And reckless? before you were dismissing this victory for being overleveled and overequipped, now you are claiming they are reckless? Admittedly, with what we, the readers know they were, but to them this was a Cardinal generated quest, and thus appropriate to the floor. And no room to fail? Against a mob they have never seen before? They almost did fail for lack of info, and they couldn't leave because of hostages.
 
You're rambling.

Demon was weak to them because they completely shut out his offensive ability with super defensive buff they happened to have, while their super Ether weapons just happened to give no shit about kind-of intangibility demon had going on for defense. Their gear was perfectly spec'd for fighting that thing.

Being reckless and being overgeared are not mutually exclusive. They were reckless because they charged without enough preparation and information. They still managed to win this because they just happened right kind of powerful enough gear. Later is not something they could've known when deciding their course of action given that they had no indications of just how powerful the boss is, which is why "lets hope that we are strong enough" is reckless. Excusing their recklessness with "it's Cardinal quest so we don't have to worry" is void because Cardinal quests have history of killing the players, up to and including throwing boss they couldn't handle at them. More than once, even.

No room to fail as in from execution standpoint. Once they have decided to save kids, running up to them and whisking them away is obvious course of action, and it's not something hard to do. Likewise, attacking enemy with your standard strategy is, quite obviously, nothing special. Fact that boss couldn't make it any harder for them is not something they have planned for because they had no information on it.


Nothing above has actually addressed my assertion that what they did is hardly something special for Middle Liner of that level, given the circumstances of them heavily countering the boss and having high level gear. They managed to resolve crisis in the best way imaginable, sure, but mainly because they lucked out.
 
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Maybe we as readers are too sensitive to the actual death theme since it's being hammered down constantly, so let's take a step back and describe this situation in another way.

A group of five people killed an event field-boss with 2* members in under a minute by using P2W equipment/skills. Didn't even tank it.
 
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@daniel_gudman - Oh, one minor nitpick - "it didn't just part them, it sliced them" feels more repetitive/quibbling than emphatic. Needs something a with a bit more oomph to the second phrase. "Cut them to shreds" or something.
 
So, Laughing Coffin Summoned a "Demon." The "Demon" kidnapped some kids for... reasons? And the Black Cats Murdered an Ex-Player. Is that about right?
 
Stratagemini said:
So, Laughing Coffin Summoned a "Demon." The "Demon" kidnapped some kids for... reasons? And the Black Cats Murdered an Ex-Player. Is that about right?
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Eh...

*handwaves*

Sorta, kinda?

If I understand things right LC tried to summon a demon, but what they thought was a demon and what a demon actually is in Nasu-land are very different things. IIRC demons in Nasu are based around human thoughts/imagination and LC had no set thing in mind when summoning, just a vague concept of 'demon'.

So as a compromise the system created a monster that was half-way between what they thought they were summoning and what they were actually summoning by waking up a discarded test subject to serve as it's core. That test subject being a player who 'died' on floor 1 and had since gone so insane from Kayaba's experimentation that he was no longer in-use.

Based on Yui's thoughts and the actions of the 'demon' he/it had no real instructions or any set role, just powerful player-made magecraft, and when left to his own devices kidnapped children for a reason only he/it knew...

So, less murder and more put back to sleep before he did something he would have regretted?
 
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plotvitalnpc said:
Not in FRO.
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But a very large chunk will almost certainly have serious mental disorders by Game Clear'd, due to Kayaba and Illya gleefully experimenting with their souls willy-nilly.

Not that that's saying much, as (many) magi in general are already complete and utter sociopaths. Wonder how many will fully embrace the "Morality? What morality?" mindset, long-term...

...besides Laughing Coffin, of course. That group is practically a shoe-in. Maybe. Depends on how much of that old discussion topic on The Fanfiction Forum is still valid, after all this time.
 
I like that the crap guild only survived and succeeded because of the changes and all the shit Kirito gave them and not out of any real skill or capability of their own.
 
Eh, it's their win if you're thinking in MMO terms, where having decent equipment/magics/whatever is just assumed.

If this were, say, Log Horizon, the Cats would be being praised for their strategy and quick thinking; but as this is mostly as story about scientist-wizard-hackers inventing cool magics it's harder to parse it that way (which isn't really fair on them - we tend to give medals to soldiers, not people who invent new guns).
 
Now that I read it a second time and had a moment to think about it, I think this chapter (as in chapter 16 parts 1-3) somewhat lacks in suspense. I mean at the end of part the boy is kidnapped, and in next part he is rescued just like that. And then after that we will (probably?) get to see people fricking out about it after the fact?

Don't get me wrong, the installment was great, the battle epic, and I can see nothing wrong with Black Cats stumbling upon the demon unaware, but I get a feeling of it all disctinctly lacking an in-between.
Someone realising something is wrong, some kind of alarm being raised, something... Dunno, maybe it's just me, but I think it could help here.
 
WanderingAirhead said:
Now that I read it a second time and had a moment to think about it, I think this chapter (as in chapter 16 parts 1-3) somewhat lacks in suspense. I mean at the end of part the boy is kidnapped, and in next part he is rescued just like that. And then after that we will (probably?) get to see people fricking out about it after the fact?

Don't get me wrong, the installment was great, the battle epic, and I can see nothing wrong with Black Cats stumbling upon the demon unaware, but I get a feeling of it all disctinctly lacking an in-between.
Someone realising something is wrong, some kind of alarm being raised, something... Dunno, maybe it's just me, but I think it could help here.
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Only until the boy tells them the Pied Piper's song was what his guildmate always whistled.
 
Formerly said:
Only until the boy tells them the Pied Piper's song was what his guildmate always whistled.
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Actually this does give me an interesting idea for an enemy in the future. Maybe they will have an enemy that can infiltrate the players and masquerade as one of them all the while subtly sabotaging them and doing other similar measures.
 
Prince Charon said:
I like how Sacchi got the [Last Attack] in, and did so not only out of concern for her friends (rather than any sort of calculation or aggressiveness), but if I'm reading it right, using the spell she charges them up with.
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Linker Beam is a Spell created by Kirito. He and Shirou created a Sword/Mystic Code for Sacchi that makes the performance of [Linker Beam] much easier.
 
So, a couple of things.

Whatever happened to Shirou's randomly deeded plot of land? Illya got one, but Shirou seems to have missed out?

Secondly; Ellis Bell. Is the reason that Argo's guide doesn't mention an NPC Magecraft Instructor that there isn't an NPC magecraft Instructor? Kirito's gone on a lot about understanding Kayaba as a Developer, and in Canon they had that weird relationship between them. And Kayaba was Zouken's IRL Apprentice. Is the Numerology Instructor Ellis Bell, who is the apprentice of Zolgen, and who thinks shockingly like Kirito, actually Kayaba?
 
Stratagemini said:
Secondly; Ellis Bell. Is the reason that Argo's guide doesn't mention an NPC Magecraft Instructor that there isn't an NPC magecraft Instructor? Kirito's gone on a lot about understanding Kayaba as a Developer, and in Canon they had that weird relationship between them. And Kayaba was Zouken's IRL Apprentice. Is the Numerology Instructor Ellis Bell, who is the apprentice of Zolgen, and who thinks shockingly like Kirito, actually Kayaba?
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Its heavily implied, through the whole apprentice to Zouken thing, Ellis' weird scheduling and how numerology is apparently Kayaba's own magecraft philosophy, that yes, Ellis Bell is Kayaba.
 
Stratagemini said:
Secondly; Ellis Bell. Is the reason that Argo's guide doesn't mention an NPC Magecraft Instructor that there isn't an NPC magecraft Instructor? Kirito's gone on a lot about understanding Kayaba as a Developer, and in Canon they had that weird relationship between them. And Kayaba was Zouken's IRL Apprentice. Is the Numerology Instructor Ellis Bell, who is the apprentice of Zolgen, and who thinks shockingly like Kirito, actually Kayaba?
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So, in real life, "Ellis Bell" was the pen-name of Emily Brontë, the author of the English literature classic Wuthering Heights, the main character of which was a man named Heathcliff.

The more you know~ :V
 
HidCyan said:
So, in real life, "Ellis Bell" was the pen-name of Emily Brontë, the author of the English literature classic Wuthering Heights, the main character of which was a man named Heathcliff.

The more you know~ :V
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So, there's basically 0% Chance that that isn't either Kayaba directly or a Puppet directed by Kayaba?
 
Stratagemini said:
So, a couple of things.

Whatever happened to Shirou's randomly deeded plot of land? Illya got one, but Shirou seems to have missed out?

Secondly; Ellis Bell. Is the reason that Argo's guide doesn't mention an NPC Magecraft Instructor that there isn't an NPC magecraft Instructor? Kirito's gone on a lot about understanding Kayaba as a Developer, and in Canon they had that weird relationship between them. And Kayaba was Zouken's IRL Apprentice. Is the Numerology Instructor Ellis Bell, who is the apprentice of Zolgen, and who thinks shockingly like Kirito, actually Kayaba?
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Shirou probably hasn't got to whatever floor his land is on yet. I'm wondering if by floor 50 (or 75 or whatever) there will be anybody else who gets good enough to earn a title.
 
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