I guess this is the grim dark horror loop, huh?

To be honest, every loop's probably going to get grim dark towards the end of things, one way or another. If this one got particularly bad, it's mostly thanks to Alt-Caster and her patron. See, the whole "people jar" concept actually comes from a bad ending in the visual novel... mind you, it wasn't being used on quite the same, er, scale as we saw here.
 
To be honest, every loop's probably going to get grim dark towards the end of things, one way or another. If this one got particularly bad, it's mostly thanks to Alt-Caster and her patron. See, the whole "people jar" concept actually comes from a bad ending in the visual novel... mind you, it wasn't being used on quite the same, er, scale as we saw here.
Is that the one where Shirou backs out of the War and loses his head for it?
 
No, it's the one where he agress to surrender to Caster in exchange for her sparing... iirc rin? and is turned into a wand (Nasu!speak for a type of magical implement, not neccesarily the HP tool).

... which involves getting his limbs cut off and stuck in a glass jar. Until Rin finds and mercy-kills him. (Do I have all that right?)
 
... unless, of course, the shadow was strong enough at this point that even Excalibur (and a three-kilometer fall) couldn't bring it down.

Not that I'm saying that was the case here, of course. :)
If it was, I would be seriously worried, because a full blast excalibur took out Sefar. I didn't think that even full powered angra mainju could approach that level of strength, so if the shadow is that strong that's... really scary. If it's only the "full bore" artoria normally uses, that's better, but still worrying for future loops.
 
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If it was, I would be seriously worried, because a full blast excalibur took out Safir. I didn't think that even full powered angra mainju could approach that level of strength, so if the shadow is that strong that's... really scary. If it's only the "full bore" artoria normally uses, that's better, but still worrying for future loops.
Care to elaborate? Becuase the only information I can find about Safir is that they were a knight who joined Lancelot and nothing anout them in fate.
 
That's me typoing. It's sefar/sephyr, aka the velber, and it stomped the gpds (all of them, pretty much) before being defeated by the wielder of excalibur.
That was during the age of gods wasn't it? So the person who wielded Excalibur back then might have been stronger then Altria or the sword itself could have been more powerful or Altria just doesn't know how to use that blast.
 
That was during the age of gods wasn't it? So the person who wielded Excalibur back then might have been stronger then Altria or the sword itself could have been more powerful or Altria just doesn't know how to use that blast.
To be specific, Excalibur was fully supported by the planet when it killed Sefar (Altera at full fuck force), meaning it held a lot more raw power than it would usually have, except maybe when it has all it seals released, but there isn't much on that on canon Excalibur in contrast to the Proto one. As for who wielded it, it was never stated.
 
I'm a little curious about the Excalibur chant, though - it doesn't sound like the usual one in FGO I'm familiar with.

In case anyone's curious, here's what the chant looks like in proper blank verse format:

Soldier's dream, hope of the oppressed, my friend!
I call upon thy power one last time!
With thy name, I seal my final prayer!
For God, church and country -- EXCALIBUR!
 
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Really loving all the lore references here; Lancer's last stand against Herc mirroring his death in legend, dragon!alt-Medea (which her normal form couldn't summon I think?), Tristan's blade, and probably a lot more I'm missing.

I'm not sure I understood all of Artoria's deductions though. The melon soda I get, and the explosives, but the part about Assassin's blade and Rider's wounds kind of went over my head.
 
That was during the age of gods wasn't it? So the person who wielded Excalibur back then might have been stronger then Altria or the sword itself could have been more powerful or Altria just doesn't know how to use that blast.
A) We have no reason to suspect the age of the gods matters for this, especially since Sefar had just finished beating up all the gods
B) Artoria also lived in the age of the gods.
C) we have this following quote from garden of avalon down below.
To be specific, Excalibur was fully supported by the planet when it killed Sefar (Altera at full fuck force), meaning it held a lot more raw power than it would usually have, except maybe when it has all it seals released, but there isn't much on that on canon Excalibur in contrast to the Proto one. As for who wielded it, it was never stated.
Here's the most information we get about the true power of excalibur / the fight with the velber, and basically everything we get outside of extella since going through that for cites is a pain:
Garden of Avalon 002: Light of the Planet said said:
"The Holy Sword was born within the planet -- a god-made weapon forged by the planet's hands. It was created by this planet in anticipation of a foreign enemy that would destroy the planet. It's a sword to protect the planet, not a weapon to protect humans. Of course, you can use it against barbarian tribes, but it was originally meant to defeat 'Destruction.' That's why--"

"Its true power cannot be used outside of a battle to save the world, right? There's no need for such concern. Caliburn aside, Excalibur is simply far too powerful. You mistake my priorities to think that I would use it to scorch some barbarians."

"Exactly. The planet's light is meant to be used at the opportune time. Remember this, for there may come a time when you must fight not as a king, but as a lone hero. Reckless use of the Holy Sword will absolutely come back to bite you. You're probably tough enough to get away unscathed, but the people around you aren't so sturdy.""
It's not impossible that it's due to the planet supporting the weilder, rather than a mechanic similar to the seals of proto excalibur, but I can't seem to find anythign that actually states it and the implication is not very strong.
 
dragon!alt-Medea (which her normal form couldn't summon I think?)

Yep. A gift from her patron. She also gained the ability to summon the dracoliches she used against the city/the military, all sort of lesser "mook" versions of the gold dragon.

I'm not sure I understood all of Artoria's deductions though. The melon soda I get, and the explosives, but the part about Assassin's blade and Rider's wounds kind of went over my head.

Thanks to her battlefield experience, Artoria is familiar with the various kinds of wounds inflicted by different weapons. Unlike Tom, she was able to tell that the wounds on Rider and Shinji's bodies were created by a short-handled axe, i.e. Alt-Assassin's hatchets. (Perhaps due to the relative width of the cuts or by signs of bone fracturing, since axes tend to inflict more blunt force trauma than swords do.) She could contrast this with the precise, relatively narrow cuts one might expect from Assassin's nodachi, given his combat style. Finding said nodachi embedded in Shirou's head, then, made him the odd case out -- the only instance of that sort of weapon being used at that particular scene[*]. (Since Alt-Assassin doesn't have access to it.)

Later on, when she saw Archer take out the island wards, she realized that he could (a) replicate swords and (b) fire them from his bow at long range. Which meant that he could have both replicated Assassin's nodachi -- since he'd seen it briefly in passing before bailing out Tom in Part III.1 -- and sniped Shirou with it from his position on top of Rin's hospital. Add in the other two murder attempts she already knew about, and, well...

Does that make sense? Sorry that I wasn't able to make all of this clearer in the actual story. I was worried about that scene being too slow as is, so I may have rushed through things a little too fast. Hope this helps.

[*] Though I didn't emphasize this at the time, she also thought it was weird they found the blade driven into Shirou point-first, since Japanese swordsmanship is all about slashing. That clued her into the fact that the nodachi was being used in an unusual way. And indeed, while Archer of course knows how a katana or like instrument is supposed to be used, he couldn't replicate the proper slashing motion while firing the sword from his bow.
 
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Artoria's time was at the tail end of the AoG basically. Britain seemed to have been slow to catch up to the rest of the world, likely due to being isolated as an island. Everywhere else at that point seemed to a changed or was in the middle of changing to the Age of Man.

Still, the gods' powers must have been fairly diminished by that point, right? So your interpretation of events is still plausible.
 
"The Holy Sword was born within the planet -- a god-made weapon forged by the planet's hands. It was created by this planet in anticipation of a foreign enemy that would destroy the planet. It's a sword to protect the planet, not a weapon to protect humans. Of course, you can use it against barbarian tribes, but it was originally meant to defeat 'Destruction.' That's why--"

"Its true power cannot be used outside of a battle to save the world, right? There's no need for such concern. Caliburn aside, Excalibur is simply far too powerful. You mistake my priorities to think that I would use it to scorch some barbarians."

"Exactly. The planet's light is meant to be used at the opportune time. Remember this, for there may come a time when you must fight not as a king, but as a lone hero. Reckless use of the Holy Sword will absolutely come back to bite you. You're probably tough enough to get away unscathed, but the people around you aren't so sturdy."

Interesting. The text also backs up the idea that Saber tends to be very careful about how much of Excalibur's power she draws on, as one would hope would be the case with what amounts to a weapon of mass destruction. Which could even mean, in turn, that we've canonically only seen a fraction of what the sword is capable of. For all we know, against a Sefar-level threat, it could even reach planet-cracker magnitudes of output.
 
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A) We have no reason to suspect the age of the gods matters for this, especially since Sefar had just finished beating up all the gods
B) Artoria also lived in the age of the gods.
C) we have this following quote from garden of avalon down below.

Here's the most information we get about the true power of excalibur / the fight with the velber, and basically everything we get outside of extella since going through that for cites is a pain:

It's not impossible that it's due to the planet supporting the weilder, rather than a mechanic similar to the seals of proto excalibur, but I can't seem to find anythign that actually states it and the implication is not very strong.
That makes it sound like Excalibur was made to fight the Safir which opens up the possibility it was exploiting some weakness or it just had a conceptual advantage of some sort and everything I can find makes it seem like the Safir was before even Gilgamesh.
 
Ok let me just answer all these things to the best of my ability.
Still, the gods' powers must have been fairly diminished by that point, right? So your interpretation of events is still plausible.
I...have no idea what you mean by this comment. Of course the god's power were dead or dying by Artoria's time. The British Islands were one of the last bastions where magic had significant potency.
Interesting. The text also backs up the idea that Saber tends to be very careful about how much of Excalibur's power she draws on, as one would hope would be the case with what amounts to a weapon of mass destruction. Which could even mean, in turn, that we've canonically only seen a fraction of what the sword is capable of. For all we know, against a Sefar-level threat, it could even reach planet-cracker magnitudes of output.
While I wouldn't disagree with Artoria holding back on the collateral because Excalibur is that much of a big deal, It's extremely unlikely she can get even remotely near the power that was reached during the Sefar invasion, not unless a similar fuckhueg alien threat was present. That particular level of strength is strictly restricted for outside threats/planetary threats and the world itself needs to basically give the go ahead before such power can be used. Outside that, I'd like to say she could wipe out a large city or a small country.
That makes it sound like Excalibur was made to fight the Safir which opens up the possibility it was exploiting some weakness or it just had a conceptual advantage of some sort and everything I can find makes it seem like the Safir was before even Gilgamesh.
Excalibur is the planet's anti alien fuck off counter measure. The reason it was able to one shot Sefar was because, the sword was essentially one huge beatstick with a beam. Sefar absorbs anything that is considered a "technique", anything deemed as skills, knowledge, technology, civilization, etc. and converts any attacks or things with such concepts into more power for herself. Because of that, the only reliable method of even scratching the Titan was bludgeoning her like a fucking caveman. Excalibur, due to being a sword whose beam is little more than a giant fuck you beam via raw mana was able to damage Sefar with minimal negative return. So of course with the planet fully supplying the sword at the time, overwhelmed the would be civilization killer.

EDIT:Also yes, Sefar was long before Gil's time.
 
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Wasn't there something about the Age of Fairies? I remember reading about it somewhere in relation to Merlin/Avalon. Given their relative prominence in Arthurian legends, it seems that in the Nasuverse Artoria's time period was the Age of Fairies (what difference it has with the Age of Gods, I don't know).

Also, I vaguely recall it being mentioned in CCC that Sefar was during Gilgamesh's father's time - she apparently spared him, which means Gil owes Altera a debt or something? Not too sure.
 
Wasn't there something about the Age of Fairies? I remember reading about it somewhere in relation to Merlin/Avalon. Given their relative prominence in Arthurian legends, it seems that in the Nasuverse Artoria's time period was the Age of Fairies (what difference it has with the Age of Gods, I don't know).
There's nothing much about that, as of the moment it's no more than a off hand remark from Merlin and that it ended by the time humanity started becoming prominent..
Also, I vaguely recall it being mentioned in CCC that Sefar was during Gilgamesh's father's time - she apparently spared him, which means Gil owes Altera a debt or something? Not too sure.
That's a cover up, the real reason he joined with Altera was to keep a eye on Hakuno. Pretty sure Babylon wasn't even a thing when Sefar came by and wrecked shop.
 
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