Falling Iron (IM MCU/WORM)

Iron Man's first patrol


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No, the second one, with the link, comes after it. The unlinked one is the attack on Tony's lab, the linked one is when whatsername wakes up in custody after the attack.


I both do and don't want to see this. Link?
it was a snip in the wormverse threads around 1140 or so I think. sorry for not being more specific, but I'm unfortunately very lazy. sorry about that... but it was masterfully done, it didn't show what had happened until near the end, it started by showing the slow collapse from the outside via weld, and him getting more details as the team fractures... it was fucking brilliant.
 
People your forgetting that Taylor works for Tony Stark her self control is now near Pepper Potts level. Which is higher the most government agents.
 
People your forgetting that Taylor works for Tony Stark her self control is now near Pepper Potts level. Which is higher the most government agents.

"Self Control" isn't some constant parameter, it varies according to circumstances, the person straining it, the stress you're under, etc...

Taylor has pretty good self control when dealing with Toni's nonsense. That does not mean she has any when dealing with Sophia.
 
People your forgetting that Taylor works for Tony Stark her self control is now near Pepper Potts level. Which is higher the most government agents.
True, her self control has improved, but I think that is just a factor. The big factors, I think, are her increased confidence (better headspace) and not wanting to act irrational/emotional in front of Tony. But Taylor will have to vent in the future, but with who? Her Dad? Miss Militia?
 
What I could see happening in the near future is Taylor does 'story time' and this results in a situation where Shadow Stalker isn't formally kicked off the Wards, but a good chunk of the Wards are unwilling to go out on patrol with her, leading to all sorts of follow on problems.

Sadly, Taylor has been well trained at this point to 'suck it up' which means she probably won't tell people why she's pissed off because "Of course they will believe Stalker, not me." ... the most likely people to get the truth out of her in the Wards is Gallant or Vista, outside the Wards, probably Tony or maybe Jarvis ...

The real problem will be if Taylor acts as twitchy to be around as Stalker because she's assuming any attempt to be friends is set-up for an attack, though the treatment she's been getting from Tony will be helping there. Though again Gallant will be good there ... I'm fairly sure he can tell the difference between "Doesn't trust anyone because she's a Balor (Bad Ass Loner, Own Rules)." vs. "Doesn't trust anyone because she's been hurt so often and so much that she can't risk it."

What Gallant does could end up being fairly important in general, he's likely to pick up on the Taylor being one bad day away from either killing herself, or killing Stalker ... probably leaning more towards the latter these days.
 
...assuming Athur's plot is planned far enough along to not just rewrite the scene for less OOC and SoD damage, something along those lines could work, I guess. I'd rather see Taylor push back some, though, even if not in the literal sense, and Tony was already back up to a net worth of 1.5 milion at the last check, so while it's more convenient he doesn't need the PRT either if they want to try to use him or Taylor's employment with him as leverage. Honestly, Tony isn't much of one for "suck it up and deal" either.
 
Bravo, that was well put together, and plenty long :D Tony is hilarious and dedicated, and I like Piggot's reaction to the animosity between Taylor and Sophia: it's not particularly caring but isn't really unreasonable from Piggot's PoV.
 
FFS, why does everyone keep misquoting that "deal with it" WoG?

Wildbow said:
If Taylor had pushed and pushed and pushed (or if Taylor had joined the team and made an issue of it), maybe something would have happened, but even then... what do you do? It goes back to the question of how problematic it is to get rid of troublesome recruits. Sophia stays on the team in an official capacity, makes appearances, but generally it's for show, and she isn't allowed to patrol anymore (at which point she gets restless and snaps, which the PRT may or may not anticipate, depending on what's on the table).

Source.

And the thing that bothers me about this update is Taylor suppressing her reaction here because it makes no sense, from either a logical, rational perspective or an emotional one.

She can only conclude one of three things:

1) Piggot doesn't know, in which case telling her is the only plausible reaction.
2) Piggot doesn't know but won't believe her, in which case, quitting is the only plausible reaction.
3) Piggot does know and doesn't care, in which case, quitting is still the only plausible reaction.

There is no rational reason to not bring it up. At all. And every emotional instinct is to lash out, one way or another, verbally or otherwise.
 
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FFS, why does everyone keep misquoting that "deal with it" WoG?
Source.

And the thing that bothers me about this update is Taylor suppressing her reaction here because it makes no sense, from either a logical, rational perspective or an emotional one.

She can only conclude one of three things:

1) Piggot doesn't know, in which case telling her is the only plausible reaction.
You mean like she told the teachers and faculty of Winslow?
2) Piggot doesn't know but won't believe her, in which case, quitting is the only plausible reaction.
Letting Shadow Stalker 'prove' that she's not a hero?
3) Piggot does know and doesn't care, in which case, quitting is still the only plausible reaction.
That doesn't even have her try to talk to Tony or her father to try and figure out a differen solution.
There is no rational reason to not bring it up. At all. And every emotional instinct is to lash out, one way or another, verbally or otherwise.
This Taylor is not 6+ weeks more damaged while getting more desperate to be a hero (ie. commit cape suicide). She has had an odd interaction where she (sort of) trusts Tony and JARVIS, but she's been sort of forced to see that he's not very mature (from her eyes).

And this tries to slam everything into a totally binary solution. It can be (and probably will be) nuanced.

There's a level where Piggot believes her, but isn't able to do much due to no proof other than she said/she said. Or where Piggot doesn't believe her much, but tries to put the screws down on both of them as a potential blow up issue. Like other noted, the Wards starting to refuse to work with Sophia.

And this doesn't even get into what Taylor and Sophia are going to do when not directly under the eyes of the director and all of the local protectorate.
 
Gotta add my agreement here: This scene completely broke my SoD irrevocably to pieces. There's no way this would be Taylor's reaction. Sophia didn't "merely" bullied her. She all but made a concentrated abuse campaign that amounts to torture capped with aggravated assault slash attempted murder that caused Taylor to bloody trigger.

If told to "deal with it" with no measures taken against Shadow Stalker, Taylor would quit, and knowing Tony, he'd be going with her in an instant. But most of all, she would not simply swallow everything and control her temper in that moment. Literally attacking Sophia might not be certain, but there would be screaming and yelling, metaphorically or not.
 
Gotta add my agreement here: This scene completely broke my SoD irrevocably to pieces. There's no way this would be Taylor's reaction. Sophia didn't "merely" bullied her. She all but made a concentrated abuse campaign that amounts to torture capped with aggravated assault slash attempted murder that caused Taylor to bloody trigger.

If told to "deal with it" with no measures taken against Shadow Stalker, Taylor would quit, and knowing Tony, he'd be going with her in an instant. But most of all, she would not simply swallow everything and control her temper in that moment. Literally attacking Sophia might not be certain, but there would be screaming and yelling, metaphorically or not.
Also, it would be fairly easy for Taylor to point at Sophia, look at Tony, and say "That's the girl who tortured me into having super-powers. I will not be able to work with her. She's already tried to kill me once. I'll have to watch my back every second of every day when she might be around. That means I won't be able to do the work you pay me for. Sorry!"

It fits with a few concepts -
Taylor's rage at Sophia being a hero / the heroes letting her torment happen.
Taylor trying to appeal to a "reasonable authority figure" - Tony.
Taylor flat out ignoring Piggot, showing that she does not consider Piggot a reasonable authority figure.

Next up you're going to have Sophia and Piggot pitching entirely different fits about it. (Which fits both their characters.) What's going to happen? Tony can ask JARVIS and Dragon to do a little digging and send their reports to Piggot, Armsmaster, and him. Bonus points if he asks for completely independent research from both of them.

@Arthur Hansen - When this many people are all chiming in to say "this breaks my SoD" you need to do some soul-searching as an author. If you want Sophia around for whatever plot-driven reason you need, great! But you need some help getting from where Taylor's story starts in canon, which you have kept, to wherever you need to go.

Personally I recommend either picking your beta's / betas' brain(s) or striking up a private conversation with some of the more well-known author-forumites.
 
Alright, let me say something here from the prospective of someone who spent 90% of their school life being bullied, and now also has to put up with the same bullshit as an adult because I'm on probation.

When the bosses won't do anything and your choices are, stop it the only way you can but that way will send you back to prison, (not jail mind you, prison), put up with it or quit where there is practically no job market, you eat your pride and your anger and keep your mouth shut.

Taylor's response works for me because I've been there. Can't play the game their way, they change the rules or take it personally. Can't treat them like the school bully they act like because not only will you lose the job that you can't afford to lose but you'll go away from your family who also can't afford it. Boss does nothing for whatever reason and you can't just quit, so you shut your mouth and soldier on until a variable changes to allow you to do something about it.
 
Also, it would be fairly easy for Taylor to point at Sophia, look at Tony, and say "That's the girl who tortured me into having super-powers. I will not be able to work with her. She's already tried to kill me once. I'll have to watch my back every second of every day when she might be around. That means I won't be able to do the work you pay me for. Sorry!"

It fits with a few concepts -
Taylor's rage at Sophia being a hero / the heroes letting her torment happen.
Taylor trying to appeal to a "reasonable authority figure" - Tony.
Taylor flat out ignoring Piggot, showing that she does not consider Piggot a reasonable authority figure.

Next up you're going to have Sophia and Piggot pitching entirely different fits about it. (Which fits both their characters.) What's going to happen? Tony can ask JARVIS and Dragon to do a little digging and send their reports to Piggot, Armsmaster, and him. Bonus points if he asks for completely independent research from both of them.

@Arthur Hansen - When this many people are all chiming in to say "this breaks my SoD" you need to do some soul-searching as an author. If you want Sophia around for whatever plot-driven reason you need, great! But you need some help getting from where Taylor's story starts in canon, which you have kept, to wherever you need to go.

Personally I recommend either picking your beta's / betas' brain(s) or striking up a private conversation with some of the more well-known author-forumites.
Or people could be slightly patient for the next part. But that seems a bit too hard and everyone wants an instant response instead of build up.
 
Personally, I want three or four more chapters of total drama followed by her actually saying something and Piggot dealing with the problem like a ton of bricks. Then Piggot turns around and wants to know why in the world Taylor didn't say something sooner.
 
If Taylor attack Sophia right now, she loses. All she will end up doing is getting herself thrown into prison, just like she feared if she ever sicced her insects on the trio.

Is that what she was afraid of? I thought she was afraid that being a parahuman using her powers as a parahuman against (what she thought were) three non-parahumans, she'd be acting like a bully (rather than being a hero like she wants to be). Especially since she wasn't 100% she would be able to restrain herself once she got started.

You mean like she told the teachers and faculty of Winslow?

Well... she did. In particular, once she'd debuted as a cape and had the corresponding confidence boost. Before that, it was largely a "if you're pretending you don't know then you're (a) lying (b) oblivious (c) not someone who teaches me and the Trio simultaneously" situation.

Letting Shadow Stalker 'prove' that she's not a hero?

Shadow Stalker hasn't claimed that she's not. Nor is being a member of the Wards the only way to be a hero.

That doesn't even have her try to talk to Tony or her father to try and figure out a differen solution.

She's kinda in the middle of an emotional moment right now. Even if she weren't... Taylor is not particularly characterized as someone who, if she can't come up with a solution herself, goes to people she respects to try to get solutions from. She doesn't want to tell her dad about the bullying because it would only upset him... then, after he finds out because of the locker incident, she doesn't want to tell him that the bullying is continuing because it would only upset him.... She's rather written off adult authority figures as being able to provide solutions if she can't think of anything for them to do.

There's a level where Piggot believes her, but isn't able to do much due to no proof other than she said/she said.

The locker incident is a known thing. Taylor has her journal and records, which are much less easily dismissed by someone who isn't a trained attorney defending his daughter in an informal conference. And Principal Blackwell knows perfectly well what all she's been covering up; a competent investigator (or one armed with a lie detector helmet...) could get perfectly good corroboration there.

Piggot might not be able to do much because, at the end of the day, kicking someone out of the Wards is difficult by design, but if you told her she couldn't do much to deal with a cape under her authority using her status as cape and even her powers to systematically persecute a civilian, because her authority as director isn't good enough justification for her to deal with the situation as she sees fit...

Or where Piggot doesn't believe her much, but tries to put the screws down on both of them as a potential blow up issue.

That would end well... that is a pretty Worm result though. :(

Like other noted, the Wards starting to refuse to work with Sophia.

Don't the other Wards already think Shadow Stalker is an unstable, bullying, sociopathic jerk that they want as little to do with as possible?

And this doesn't even get into what Taylor and Sophia are going to do when not directly under the eyes of the director and all of the local protectorate.

Sophia's going to keep pulling her bullying bullshit on Taylor and on Chrysalis, although probably more sneakily because she can't count on the other Wards not stepping in if they see it, Taylor's going to fail to bring it up to the adults because she assumes they already knew this would happen so they're obviously not invested in stopping it if she can't stop it herself, anything Taylor does short of outright battery is going to be dismissed by Sophia as acting like a victim and failing to stand up for herself, and then when or if Taylor finally snaps (I say "if" because if she didn't do it in that scene right there she's not the Taylor I know) it'll be in front of other people or at least undeniable as Chrysalis's handiwork and thus Sophia will use it to get Taylor in trouble?

Probably at the worst time possible, so I'm figuring Shadow Stalker will escalate her nastiness in the leadup to an Endbringer battle so that Taylor can officially break the Endbringer truce.
 
I'm interested in seeing how things develop from here. Will Taylor try to get Sophia to dig her own grave, will she try to understand the crazy that is Sophia to better deal with it (to avoid her or come to an understanding of sorts), or something else...looking forward to it in any case.


I like the cape name Chrysalis. I don't think I've seen it used in a Worm fic before now, which is a bit of a surprise.
 
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Arthur, I'm still going to keep reading because I know your stuff is usually pretty good - the Taylor In Name Only moment just really throws me, to the point that it wasn't until I read the chapter for a second time that I actually connected it to this fic, rather than a random Ideas Thread scene or omake. When that level of disconnection happens, it's a strong hint that it might be worth reconsidering. You say that the problem is a lack of patience for your build-up, but you didn't build Taylor up enough to plausibly have this much self-control, or have the worst-day-of-her-life-plus-as-bad-as-Grue-being-vivisected-by-Bonesaw double-trigger locker incident far enough in the past to even begin to get over beyond the initial screaming breakdown, nor has she seen enough shit otherwise to realise that even if they caused that kind of hell for her, Sophia & Co. are really too smalltime to be worth giving them any more attention.

If you'll pardon switching to Bleach for illustrative purposes, what you've got here is Ichigo discovering that he's just been teamed up with Grand Fisher, then being told to suck it up and deal with it because sometimes you have to work with people you hate. It just does not, can not, work. Not without three or four more chapters and preferably an entire arc worth of working toward it, at least.

@Rajvik_wolfboy - I'm not going to belittle your situation in any way, but it doesn't apply here - There's no such penalties keeping Taylor from walking out or protesting, only from physically lashing out, which she controlled in a believeable way once reminded of it. There's other hero teams, and even if going solo has a 50% chance of death or villainy for young capes it's still better than a 100% chance of Sophia. Besides, those are other people, it won't happen to her./teenagelogic That's completely setting aside the near-certainty that Tony would walk with her, since Taylor doesn't have the meta-knowledge of him we do and has been conditioned to believe adults will not help her.
 
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Or people could be slightly patient for the next part. But that seems a bit too hard and everyone wants an instant response instead of build up.
That WOG said:
This is why she was as pissed as she was over the meeting at the school where everything came up. It straight up overturned her act. In a calmer situation, if things hadn't gone shit-sideways, stuff would have gone through and things would have changed. Not enough, but they would have.

If Taylor had pushed and pushed and pushed (or if Taylor had joined the team and made an issue of it), maybe something would have happened, but even then... what do you do? It goes back to the question of how problematic it is to get rid of troublesome recruits. Sophia stays on the team in an official capacity, makes appearances, but generally it's for show, and she isn't allowed to patrol anymore (at which point she gets restless and snaps, which the PRT may or may not anticipate, depending on what's on the table).

What I got from this, is that Arthur's going for a non-instant reaction, where pretty much everyone takes a moment, (or a day, a week even) to find out what's really been happening and decide what they want to do about it. Seems legit to me.
 
1) Piggot doesn't know, in which case telling her is the only plausible reaction.
2) Piggot doesn't know but won't believe her, in which case, quitting is the only plausible reaction.
3) Piggot does know and doesn't care, in which case, quitting is still the only plausible reaction.
Change "plausabile" to "logical" or "sensible" and I'd agree with you. There are a number of other plausabile reactions for someone like to Taylor to do, especially if she concludes option 2 is the right one. None of them are sensible and most are self-destructive, but they're quite plausible.

There is no rational reason to not bring it up. At all. And every emotional instinct is to lash out, one way or another, verbally or otherwise.
This.

When the bosses won't do anything and your choices are, stop it the only way you can but that way will send you back to prison, (not jail mind you, prison), put up with it or quit where there is practically no job market, you eat your pride and your anger and keep your mouth shut.

I'm sorry you're in that situation, however Taylor's situation is simultaneously both better and worse than yours.
Better because she is not forced to deal with Sophia - She's working for Toni, and got transfered to a different school. If she doesn't want to deal with Sophia she can just say she won't and that's it, she won't have to.

Worse because the Wards NEED to be able to trust each other with their lives, and what Sophia did goes quite a bit beyond "bullying".

If Toni wasn't there and Taylor needed Piggot's support to do stuff, then I could see your point, but even then her not trying to tell Piggot seems very odd since at the very least she'd need to know if she needs to be on guard from the other Wards attempting to kill her (if they seem to be on Sophia's side the answer is yes).

Or people could be slightly patient for the next part. But that seems a bit too hard and everyone wants an instant response instead of build up.

The problem is that you already provided an instant response - it's just that it isn't believable.
 
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Since it appears to be a major topic atm, I feel I'll chime in that I do feel Taylor restraining herself does seem rather odd.
But I suppose it a question of how much her interaction with Tony and the rest of the Wards/Protectorate have affected her opinion in contrast to canon. Like Taylor doesn't get the asshole Armsmaster treatment here and then have Glory Girl and Panacea making extreme threats to her during bank where she makes the bird cage comment.
And then she has also already proven her own strength as well when she stood up to the Dragonslayers(which might of been her suicide by cape attempt for this fic)
So overall I have to say it an issue but more waiting to see if there material in the works that explains it, like a Taylor Interlude or something.

As they were walking out, they heard Armstrong.

"This isn't the last you have heard of this, Chief Director. This is insanity."
I thought Armstrong is the reasonable one? Or is this particular act/subject too much for even him?
 
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Not caught up on the thread yet, so I don't know if it's been raised.

But the link in the index for FI3 leads to a post with the same text as FI5. The same problem for FI4 being a copy of FI6.

EDIT

And the link for chapter 2 just goes to the top of page 1.
 
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Arthur, I'm still going to keep reading because I know your stuff is usually pretty good - the Taylor In Name Only moment just really throws me, to the point that it wasn't until I read the chapter for a second time that I actually connected it to this fic, rather than a random Ideas Thread scene or omake. When that level of disconnection happens, it's a strong hint that it might be worth reconsidering. You say that the problem is a lack of patience for your build-up, but you didn't build Taylor up enough to plausibly have this much self-control, or have the worst-day-of-her-life-plus-as-bad-as-Grue-being-vivisected-by-Bonesaw double-trigger locker incident far enough in the past to even begin to get over beyond the initial screaming breakdown, nor has she seen enough shit otherwise to realise that even if they caused that kind of hell for her, Sophia & Co. are really too smalltime to be worth giving them any more attention.

If you'll pardon switching to Bleach for illustrative purposes, what you've got here is Ichigo discovering that he's just been teamed up with Grand Fisher, then being told to suck it up and deal with it because sometimes you have to work with people you hate. It just does not, can not, work. Not without three or four more chapters and preferably an entire arc worth of working toward it, at least.
No penalties? How do you actually know that? The PRT/Protectorate knows who she is, she might lose her job under Tony and she can't back out (easily). Her father knows about her , too. So if she backs out, she has to explain to her father, something she is amazingly adverse to do so.

So it is nowhere that easy and simple as people are trying to say. And Taylor tends to internalize things badly.

Weirdly, I would say that it's being harder for her because she had someone validate that she is a hero. Tony didn't know she even had powers.
{snip}
So overall I have to say it an issue but more waiting to see if there material in the works that explains it, like a Taylor Interlude or something.
Thanks for the confidence. I do have a plan (okay, more a concept of where I'm going).

I thought Armstrong is the reasonable one? Or is this particular act/subject too much for even him?
Doh, that should have been Heathrow.
 
Thanks for the confidence. I do have a plan (okay, more a concept of where I'm going).

Doh, that should have been Heathrow.
I think the part of the issue is people usually expect some things to be upfront. But then as you noted, Taylor internalizes things a lot and we don't see her thoughts or feelings in this. And I don't recall any info on how much time has passed since the locker and saving Tony.

Ahh okay, I thought that might be it. I will note that there is a few other spots that might actually be Heathrow then.
 
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