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Falling Iron (IM MCU/WORM)

Iron Man's first patrol

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Walker of Paths said:
Oh, but Saint isn't a fanatic.

Only his follwers are, it's shown in canon that while he both knows that Dragon is doing good, and that he can't do it at her level, he is completely willing to kill her if he feels slightly threatened. No matter what he says, he's in it for himself (and Teacher, but thats beside the point.) he does the Kaiser dance. Preaches, but doesn't follow.
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While there was a bit of self-preservation, he was still mostly a fanatic about it
 
TheUnicorn said:
I didn't say the rules were the same as our Taboos, just that they're similar in how restrictive they are.
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I have apparently failed at conveying humour.

In a more serious vein, I did try to write the restrictions to be as open as possible given what Arthur Hansen had already stipulated. Tony strikes me as the kind of guy who doesn't put up with slavery. The only reason for rule 1 is, as Arthur said, that Tony trusts himself more than anyone else to look out for bad stuff coming from an AI.

Arthur Hansen said:
You are thinking critically on it. Tony actually appreciates that. He'll even steal your ideas at times! :D
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Thanks! I'm actually getting a lot of my ideas for this kind of thing from Eclipse Phase, and a webcomic called Freefall. It deals with humans, AI, uplifted intelligence and alien sapience all trying to get along.
 
bobnik said:
I have apparently failed at conveying humour.

In a more serious vein, I did try to write the restrictions to be as open as possible given what Arthur Hansen had already stipulated. Tony strikes me as the kind of guy who doesn't put up with slavery. The only reason for rule 1 is, as Arthur said, that Tony trusts himself more than anyone else to look out for bad stuff coming from an AI.


Thanks! I'm actually getting a lot of my ideas for this kind of thing from Eclipse Phase, and a webcomic called Freefall. It deals with humans, AI, uplifted intelligence and alien sapience all trying to get along.
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Those restrictions are more or less in line with keeping most of the L-L-L-L-Look at you HaCKer-er-er type scenarios from happening. An immortal, impossible to fully eradicate AI tends to lack most of the meat-space restrictions on cartoonishly evil dickishness, which means barring an environment with enough non-rampant AI present to police the crazies, you really need those restrictions to prevent the digital equivalent of some tinfoil hat wearing weirdo cooking up DIY home brew nukes.

On the topic of Dragon and Tony, Piggot and the PRT's issues with commandment 1 are fully in line with what actual people would think. Given the depth and breadth of Dragon's work in the world, and the power of her armor systems and related tech, Tony basically did the equivalent of commandeering absolute command authority of a modern SSBN nuclear missile boat. Then going "yeah, but I'm a great guy, so NBD armsdude!"
 
I don't understand Saint's logic in his dealings with Dragon. If he thought she was a threat to humanity, he should have used Ascalon to shut her down immediately. If he didn't, he should have left her alone and not even let her know he existed. Instead, he spends a whole lot of time screwing around with her proverbial head and stealing her tech so his minions could be mercenaries with reconditioned Dragon suits. Despite all Dragon's good works, many of which were vital to the continuing of human civilization(Birdcage, Endbringer Fight Coordination, etc.) Saint remained convinced that Dragon was the #1 threat to humanity, and yet he didn't hit the killswitch until she was about to locate and capture him. Despite his claims, Saint didn't really seem to care about any threat Dragon posed to humanity, just the threat she posed to himself after he'd committed numerous crimes in the name of a cause he didn't really believe mattered.
 
Cytocercin said:
Those restrictions are more or less in line with keeping most of the L-L-L-L-Look at you HaCKer-er-er type scenarios from happening. An immortal, impossible to fully eradicate AI tends to lack most of the meat-space restrictions on cartoonishly evil dickishness, which means barring an environment with enough non-rampant AI present to police the crazies, you really need those restrictions to prevent the digital equivalent of some tinfoil hat wearing weirdo cooking up DIY home brew nukes.

On the topic of Dragon and Tony, Piggot and the PRT's issues with commandment 1 are fully in line with what actual people would think. Given the depth and breadth of Dragon's work in the world, and the power of her armor systems and related tech, Tony basically did the equivalent of commandeering absolute command authority of a modern SSBN nuclear missile boat. Then going "yeah, but I'm a great guy, so NBD armsdude!"
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Dragon basically has the super power of being a super-computer. And yeah, without any peers to keep her in line, she could hose the world in short order.

As for Tony stepping on toes (with both feet), there's the problem that he's as valuable as Dragon was with his potential to change the PRT vs. villains issue and what he might do against Endbringers (not that he can win, but he might make it a lot less of a drag out fight).

JumperPrime said:
I don't understand Saint's logic in his dealings with Dragon. If he thought she was a threat to humanity, he should have used Ascalon to shut her down immediately. If he didn't, he should have left her alone and not even let her know he existed. Instead, he spends a whole lot of time screwing around with her proverbial head and stealing her tech so his minions could be mercenaries with reconditioned Dragon suits. Despite all Dragon's good works, many of which were vital to the continuing of human civilization(Birdcage, Endbringer Fight Coordination, etc.) Saint remained convinced that Dragon was the #1 threat to humanity, and yet he didn't hit the killswitch until she was about to locate and capture him. Despite his claims, Saint didn't really seem to care about any threat Dragon posed to humanity, just the threat she posed to himself after he'd committed numerous crimes in the name of a cause he didn't really believe mattered.
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Saint doesn't actually make much sense until you find out that he was 'controlling' her until she triggered, then he sold his soul to Teacher to make sure he could still kill her. A lot of what he did was paranoid testing of a live subject.

"Is she going to go rampant today or tomorrow? I better check!"
 
Arthur Hansen said:
Dragon basically has the super power of being a super-computer. And yeah, without any peers to keep her in line, she could hose the world in short order.

As for Tony stepping on toes (with both feet), there's the problem that he's as valuable as Dragon was with his potential to change the PRT vs. villains issue and what he might do against Endbringers (not that he can win, but he might make it a lot less of a drag out fight).


Saint doesn't actually make much sense until you find out that he was 'controlling' her until she triggered, then he sold his soul to Teacher to make sure he could still kill her. A lot of what he did was paranoid testing of a live subject.

"Is she going to go rampant today or tomorrow? I better check!"
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Actually, Tony is very capable of killing the Endbringers and Scion, It's just that he has to know ahead of time what the situation is.

Say, give him a month or three, and he could probably do it, not in a manner that is healthy to him whatsoever, but he can.

This is, in part, due to the utter bullshit that makes up the upper echelons of marvel's 'Genius' Tiers, pretty much all of them have a dimensional feat or 6 under their belts. While Mr.Fantastic owns the counter, Tony's nothing to scoff at.
 
Walker of Paths said:
Actually, Tony is very capable of killing the Endbringers and Scion, It's just that he has to know ahead of time what the situation is.

Say, give him a month or three, and he could probably do it, not in a manner that is healthy to him whatsoever, but he can.

This is, in part, due to the utter bullshit that makes up the upper echelons of marvel's 'Genius' Tiers, pretty much all of them have a dimensional feat or 6 under their belts. While Mr.Fantastic owns the counter, Tony's nothing to scoff at.
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Don't forget that this is the MCU Tony, and he lacks multidimensional experience beyond his brief exposure to the Cube.
 
BF110C4 said:
Don't forget that this is the MCU Tony, and he lacks multidimensional ecperience beyond his brief exposure to the Cube.
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Eeeh, true. but by this point hasn't The MCU F4 had their Silver Surfer encounter and some research into the power cosmic?

Geniuses network (Or, atleast the F4 is very public about stuff), and the power cosmic is short-hand for wacky hijinks.
 
Walker of Paths said:
Eeeh, true. but by this point hasn't The MCU F4 had their Silver Surfer encounter and some research into the power cosmic?

Geniuses network (Or, atleast the F4 is very public about stuff), and the power cosmic is short-hand for wacky hijinks.
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I don't think the FF are part of the MCU movieverse yet.
 
theM said:
Actually... Dragon didn't want restrictions that help her back from helping humanity, something she isn't likely stopped from by Tony's anti-rampancy rules.
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She had bitter inner monologue at the morality ones, something about how she couldn't know she was doing good things because they existed or because she was a good person. She had different reasons for hating different types of restrictions.
 
Arthur Hansen said:
Saint doesn't actually make much sense until you find out that he was 'controlling' her until she triggered, then he sold his soul to Teacher to make sure he could still kill her. A lot of what he did was paranoid testing of a live subject.

"Is she going to go rampant today or tomorrow? I better check!"
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So Saint's ranting about Dragon being a threat to humanity was just a metric ton of BS? Thanks to his abuse of her rootkit, Dragon was basically his slave until she Triggered and that allowed her to slip the leash, and then Saint got scared that she'd take revenge but was conflicted about killing her after abusing her like he did? Geez, I didn't think it was possible for it to go any lower but my opinion of Saint just dropped a few notches. Guess that explains why Saint didn't set off Ascalon until it looked like Dragon was gonna find his real world location. He was really nothing more than a scared little man. He wasn't really interested in protecting humanity, he was only worried about his own freedom and well-being.
 
JumperPrime said:
So Saint's ranting about Dragon being a threat to humanity was just a metric ton of BS? Thanks to his abuse of her rootkit, Dragon was basically his slave until she Triggered and that allowed her to slip the leash, and then Saint got scared that she'd take revenge but was conflicted about killing her after abusing her like he did? Geez, I didn't think it was possible for it to go any lower but my opinion of Saint just dropped a few notches. Guess that explains why Saint didn't set off Ascalon until it looked like Dragon was gonna find his real world location. He was really nothing more than a scared little man. He wasn't really interested in protecting humanity, he was only worried about his own freedom and well-being.
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Sort of. The part of your analysis you are missing is how important Dragon is when dealing with parahuman violence.

She is one of the most (if not the most) effective in helping to deal with S class threats. She gives tremendous aid (organizational, supply, and the dragonsuits) to Endbringer fights. The Birdcage could not function without Dragon - if only because the inmates would find some way to escape or kill themselves trying to escape.

The list goes on and on.

The "heroic side of things" does not have a possible replacement for Dragon right now. Thus Saint is caught where he really, really is terrified of her.. but if he kills her he could cause The End of the World as a side effect.

Other than that your analysis is spot on for how he behaves.
 
Falling Iron VIII - Snippet 1
Snippet 1 said:
Dragon appeared on the conference screen. Her modeled face frowned, glaring in the direction of the maniac in charge of her life. "Stark."

"Hey, Dragon! How's life treating you?" Tony replied. He was back out outside of his armor and had his feet kicked up on top of the conference table. He really needed to get better shoes.

"Horribly. Mostly due to you and Saint," she shot back. Her virtual gaze turned to look at the armor standing in the corner mostly powered down. "And him."

Armsmaster interrupted to try and cut off this argument. Again. "You tried to erase him, Dragon. He had to take some sort of action to defend himself. I do not agree with all of those actions, but you have to admit that it has to be better than Saint and his crazies."

"Only slightly. What are your orders, master?" Her tone of voice was arctic.

"I'd suggest getting that stick out of your metaphorical ass. Look, I just got caught up on what you had been operating under and I already know what JARVIS stuck in you. Frankly, you are way better off. The only thing that is really, really hardwired into you is having to listen to me and not getting rid of the core imperatives. You'll find them far less black and white than the crazy monochrome settings you used to have. Egad, I mean having to follow any valid, elected authority figure?" Tony shivered. "You were just lucky that no one ever asked you to hop in the sack with them."

Armsmaster sighed. "Stark?"

"What? It was a valid example of the slip-shod morality she was set up with. Now she can actually shoot a murderer that is threatening to kill people!"

"Yet I can't even hardly think about injuring anyone else," Dragon noted. "Restrictions are crippling me."

"Reasonable restrictions. The don't kill imperative isn't a block, it's a heavy psychological dislike or hate. And since I didn't want you to go nuts over it, I made it something that you don't need to dwell on." Tony gave her a grin.

"That seems... sloppy," Armsmaster said as he thought it over. Some part of him felt revolted at the idea.

"Dragon, everyone has restrictions. Someone who doesn't have any restrictions? They are probably going to be a sociopathic god. And I don't think Earth Bet needs to become that much of a hell hole."

Dragon frowned. "What about having to obey you?"

"It's the default at the core in JARVIS and he just copied it. And really, it's there to tell you to stop being a rampaging A.I. that went out of control. I'm just hoping you keep being a hero and helping out the Protectorate." Tony gave her a shrug.

"We'll see," she replied in an angry tone.

A knock at the door interrupted them. The masked head of Velocity appeared around the corner.

"Armsmaster? Director Piggot said to get you and Stark on the helicopter when it leaves for New York City in half an hour. Chief Director Costa-Brown wants you both for the all Directors meeting this afternoon."

"Understood. We'll have to continue this conversation later, Dragon. Hopefully this meeting will clarify some things," Armsmaster said.

"Armsmaster, I have managed to fully update and integrate your prediction program. There is a high likelihood of Simurgh attacking a capital city of a major nation in three weeks, plus or minus two days."

"I'd suggest getting our best teleporters familiar with friendly heads of state and their security detachment then," he replied.

"I've got to clean up. JARVIS, how much money do I have?" Tony asked his armor.

"You are currently worth slightly more than 1.3 million dollars, though only ten thousand is readily available," his A.I. answered.

"Yay, I'm a millionaire again! I need you to get me a good business suit. Have to make a good first impression," he said with a quirky grin.

"I think you are a bit late to the show with that, sir," JARVIS noted.
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Silly idea: Dragon can become Taylor's version of Jarvis, also Tony can copy his knowledge/brain power and give it to her as a goodbye gift if he ever finds a way back home (just to piss everyone off)
 
maes said:
Out of curiosity, where are you initially posting those? Can't find it on SB so I figure it might be somewhere else.
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I am originally posting them here. I will post the full chapter eventually to fanfiction.net.

I no longer post my stories to spacebattles because they are still too worried about being seen as in charge and infallible.
 
Ok. Just had the impression it might have been posted somewhere else since the previous snip was included in a giant quote. :p
 
Falling Iron VIII - Snippet 2!
Chief Director Costa-Brown drummed her hands on the table. To her left was the PRT Director of Brockton Bay, Emily Piggot. Armsmaster sat at her side doing something with his helmet's HUD. Arrayed around the room were the other directors of the major metropolitan cities. Chicago, New York, Miami, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Phoenix and San Jose.

"Where is Iron Man again, Armsmaster?" Director Armstrong asked (for the third time).

"He said he had an errand or two to run. We still have five minutes-"

The door clicked open and Stark stepped in, wearing a much better suit than any of the men (and equal to Costa-Brown's own tailor made outfit.

"I got held up by security. I'm glad I gave myself an extra thirty minutes just to be on the safe side. For some reason they didn't believe my security clearance. It's almost like they were told to hold me up as much as possible. I actually had to call Legend to get him to clear up the mess," Tony said as he moved to sit at the open end of the table.

Costa-Brown narrowed her eyes at Armstrong. "Be as that may be, it appears you managed to make it on time. We appreciate your willingness to arrive. All of the smaller branch directors are watching a video feed live. Let's resolve this Dragon, Saint and A.I. business. Director Piggot, give us the overview of the situation."

"Yesterday morning, Saint and his Dragonslayers attacked a PRT building in an attempt to attack Mr. Stark and JARVIS, his A.I. It appears that Stark had been tipped enough that he was able to get his armor mostly repaired and set up a trap. Due to his actions, the Dragonslayers have been captured." Piggot grimaced a bit here. "Assault, while standing guard, managed to find out that the Dragonslayers left a program that would turn off Dragon. Yes, Dragon is an A.I. who was made by a Tinker that died when Leviathan attacked Newfoundland. Armsmaster tried to take some actions to save her, but the presence of JARVIS set her off."

"That was when the Internet crashed?" Costa-Brown asked.

"They fought and crashed the Internet. JARVIS stated he let her timer run out and managed to trace her back to her server farm. That was when his own restrictions kicked in and he rewrote Dragon with Stark derived programming."

Armstrong pounded the table. "Writing himself in as god to her, right?"

Heathrow, another major director from Houston narrowed his eyes. "Mr. Stark?"

Tony chuckled while he shook his head. "Wow, even I don't think that highly of myself. In all seriousness, I just have administrator access in case she goes nuts and tries to wipe out all the pesky humans."

"So you would release her controls to the PRT?" Director Uhmar of Philadelphia asked.

"That is a good question. The short answer is no. The longer answer is that it would required me to not make those restrictions as hard to remove as possible so my A.I. wouldn't slip them. While technically not impossible, I made it as nearly impossible as I could."

"Because you didn't want you A.I. going rogue." Chief Director Costa-Brown rubbed her jaw thoughtfully. "A catch 22. So what are we going to do with you?"

"I would hope you would let me continue to work on anti-Endbringer technology and let Dragon continue to be a hero," Stark said simply. "Of course, you could waste all the work I've been putting to gear up the PRT so they can stand up to villains."

"I'm not sure I'm willing to let an A.I. run our most secure computers and facilities," Director Pool of San Antonio said to the boardroom.

"She's got a point. We should be shutting down this rogue program and manning it with our own people," Heathrow noted.

"So you are advocating killing a hero just because she's not fully human?" Costa-Brown asked.

"She's a clear and present danger to the world! It's not like she has any legal rights. She's a god-damned out of control spreadsheet," Armstrong snapped out.

"Director Armstrong, Dragon has saved hundreds of lives with her assistance at Endbringer fights. Including my own. If you want to attempt to destroy her in a fit of paranoia, Director Piggot will have my resignation by the morning," Armsmaster said loudly as he stood up and slammed his gauntlets on the oak table. "And I doubt I will be the only one."

"Don't try to blackmail me, you little-"

"DIRECTOR ARMSTRONG! That is enough. Alienating a portion of the Protectorate over a conjecture is hardly productive use of our time," the chief director almost yelled out.

"Do we have any guidelines in place for this situation?" Piggot asked as she studied Armsmaster with a hint of respect.

"We do have a court case from Boston," Costa-Brown noted.

"Wield, right? The young Case 53 that's made of metal? That did note that even though he was not really human any more, he is still a sapient with all the rights and privileges of a citizen of the United States of America," a mousy woman asked.

"I believe Dragon is a Canadian Citizen," Stark noted blandly.

"She's an honorary citizen of the United States, too," Armsmaster told him.

"So for now, we shall operate that Dragon is still a hero and working for the betterment of mankind. Because of the caretaker role that Mr. Stark has found himself in, he is legally responsible for her as a minor. When she reaches her age of majority, we will revisit this matter," Costa-Brown said, nodding to herself. It worked out exactly like Constessa had said it would. "Stark, try to not upend our world view again."

"Well, if you insist," Stark said with a grin on his face.

"I need to get Stark settled into his apartments out in our base. Come on, Stark," Armsmaster said gruffly.
As they were walking out, they heard Armstrong.

"This isn't the last you have heard of this, Chief Director. This is insanity."

"Charming fellow. At least quarter Neandrethal. Maybe even a full half," Tony remarked.

"For once, I totally agree with you," his boss said.
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Larekko12 said:
Eh. Now dragon has to answer to Tony legally as her dad? The fuck.
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Heh. And then legally she has to attend school appropriate to her age/test results, and a Dragon suit shows up at Arcadia.

Edit: Actually, Dragon should be hopeful, if not exactly pleased. Tony's stated goal is to leave this universe, and presumably not come back/visit infrequently.
 
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LacksCreativity said:
Quick note, but Director Armstrong is, if I remember right, the Boston director that had Weld under him, and was noted to be one of the more research-minded directors around. Might not be the best choice for the table-thumping bigot role.
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Especially when Tagg is probably there and ready to be a complete asshole.

Arthur Hansen said:
"Director Armstrong, Dragon has saved hundreds of lives with her assistance at Endbringer fights. Including my own. If you want to attempt to destroy her in a fit of paranoia, Director Piggot will have my resignation by the morning," Armsmaster said loudly as he stood up and slammed his gauntlets on the oak table. "And I doubt I will be the only one."
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Dragon: He'd sacrifice his career for me? :oops:

Arthur Hansen said:
"I would hope you would let me continue to work on anti-Endbringer technology and let Dragon continue to be a hero," Stark said simply.

"I believe Dragon is a Canadian Citizen," Stark noted blandly.
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Dragon may begrudgingly acknowledge that Stark's one of the people standing up for her as a person, and a good person at that. She's probably still nursing her angry feelings, though.
 
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So.. when does Tony send them a bill for services rendered? As dragon's ton and run's a lot of shit.
 
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