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Exclusion (PMMM AU / MTG)

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[X] White.
Adhoc vote count started by saganatsu on Mar 3, 2019 at 8:27 PM, finished with 27 posts and 21 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by saganatsu on Mar 3, 2019 at 9:27 PM, finished with 39 posts and 30 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by saganatsu on Mar 4, 2019 at 2:45 AM, finished with 66 posts and 36 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by saganatsu on Mar 4, 2019 at 12:45 PM, finished with 94 posts and 51 votes.
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This is a hard choice, neither black nor white has really been explored in Alivaril quests. In the end I'm going to go with White because power from grief/darkness has been done before. It'd be more fun to oppose the darkness for once.

[X] White.
 
Ayashi said:
Oh this would be hilarious! Like imma join Walpurgisnacht, because i she doesn't die, no Ragnarok so we best keep her alive and happy as long as possible.
Also probably extremely bad. But hey, the ends justify the means, right ? Right.
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I realize this was most likely a joke, but joining Walpurgisnacht is not a thing you are going to be doing. Reckless use of "the ends justify the means" also has a tendency to lead to unintentionally broken ends, which the PC is well aware of.


Emanyzal said:
Can't preserve life on Earth without a little "Natural Selection."
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>_>; When the G/Black-PC mentions "if she needs to kill someone" to refer to Sacrifice, she doesn't use the word needs lightly. Casually killing others has a tendency to horribly backfire in addition to the moral considerations.
 
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[X] Vebyast

Now just imagine that's a color name and a type of Mana.
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Mar 3, 2019 at 8:58 PM, finished with 34 posts and 27 votes.
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[Insert obligatory ribbing of a friend for not completing his projects here]

(Nah, but seriously, I get it. I don't finish a lot of what I start, either.)
Alivaril said:
I actually edited that in once I realized "directed evolution" wasn't actually the same thing as selective breeding. As someone majoring in Biology, I have no excuse for making that mistake. :oops:
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I mean, it's basically the same thing, just faster. Says the chemist who is really glad he's managed to avoid ever having to do dissections.

[X] White.

Golgari are fun and all, but I love playing Selesnya. Power through numbers and minion buffing go together like hydrogen and oxygen. Explosively, yet with benign byproducts. Black has always come with prices I dislike paying.
 
Is this in the universe of Ignition, or is this separate? ... Is this a prequel?
 
(The author has gone on record saying it's a similar, but not the same, setting. )

[X] White.

Being a good person is important! (And we aren't going to be able to fight alone)
 
Archon said:
Being a good person is important! (And we aren't going to be able to fight alone)
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Tbf, from what I've read, Black has nothing to do with going it alone. All it means is that we see everything as relationships of power, and care first and foremost about ourselves. So, we'd probably treat weaker allies as minions, see equals and superiors as threats to be undermined, coerced, or eliminated, and have zero compunctions about backstabbing our allies if it's the best possible option available to us. (Not saying we'd do it lightly, but loyalty and camaraderie is the exact opposite of what Black is about.)
 
DeepWaters said:
Tbf, from what I've read, Black has nothing to do with going it alone. All it means is that we see everything as relationships of power, and care first and foremost about ourselves. So, we'd probably treat weaker allies as minions, see equals and superiors as threats to be undermined, coerced, or eliminated, and have zero compunctions about backstabbing our allies if it's the best possible option available to us. (Not saying we'd do it lightly, but loyalty and camaraderie is the exact opposite of what Black is about.)
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Hence why I'm not so sure it's a good choice. Not only will cooperation be useful in this scenario, but Black and Green don't combo as neatly as White does with Green. They are enemy colors, after all. The shared focus on poisons/toxins can be powerful, and the lifeforms that take well to both (mushrooms, decomposers/scavengers) are useful, but it's not as smooth a combination, and it seems like we've been kept from refining the stronger "recycling/life-death cycle" aspects of the combo.

Overall, I think White-Green will work out better for us. The ability to gain power from Grief is certainly tempting, though.
 
Nixeu said:
Hence why I'm not so sure it's a good choice. Not only will cooperation be useful in this scenario, but Black and Green don't combo as neatly as White does with Green. They are enemy colors, after all. The shared focus on poisons/toxins can be powerful, and the lifeforms that take well to both (mushrooms, decomposers/scavengers) are useful, but it's not as smooth a combination, and it seems like we've been kept from refining the stronger "recycling/life-death cycle" aspects of the combo.

Overall, I think White-Green will work out better for us. The ability to gain power from Grief is certainly tempting, though.
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Oh yeah totally. I voted for White too. I'm just being the devil's advocate and pointing out that going Black doesn't mean going it alone (because that would make Black not really a valid option, being the suicidal option :V).
 
DeepWaters said:
Tbf, from what I've read, Black has nothing to do with going it alone. All it means is that we see everything as relationships of power, and care first and foremost about ourselves. So, we'd probably treat weaker allies as minions, see equals and superiors as threats to be undermined, coerced, or eliminated, and have zero compunctions about backstabbing our allies if it's the best possible option available to us. (Not saying we'd do it lightly, but loyalty and camaraderie is the exact opposite of what Black is about.)
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So, the core thing with this is that that's not how you do alliances! True friendship is, genuinely, a much better plan for having good and strong alliances; loyalty and camaraderie are actual things which will help. Sure, you lose out on the option to cheat and betray, but what I'm saying, is that we don't want those things anyway; any time such a decision will be made, it will be in direst need and with much hemming and hawing anyway, so leaning away from doing that is wise. Get power from the things we *know* we will do, and not from things we only *might* do.
 
There is a massive amount of power in good PR and loyalty. If we look and act like a hero, we will be treated like one.
 
Friendship and camaraderie might be easier for alliances, but backstabbing and power plays are more interesting. Especially if it's done well and with purpose, as opposed to just being petty and evil.
 
I think the main power of black would probably be countering witches, as the toxin combo doesn't seems especially usable against Witches. White would probably focus on out-powering Walburgis through internal synergies.
 
As DeepWaters mentioned, the issue of characterization isn't as... Black and White as many people are portraying it as. Black is pragmatic, cynical, and ambitious — not antisocial. Regardless of secondary color, the PC's mission is still to keep a group of Magical Girls alive and earn their trust, with the aim of eventually turning them against Kyubey. Black just has the amusing 'perk' of trying to do so with a set of very useful yet evil-seeming powers.

Characterization aside, I'm interested in Green/Black mainly because it's a unique color combination, and we haven't really seen Black used in Ignition yet. Figure the experience will be fresh.
 
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Archon said:
So, the core thing with this is that that's not how you do alliances! True friendship is, genuinely, a much better plan for having good and strong alliances; loyalty and camaraderie are actual things which will help. Sure, you lose out on the option to cheat and betray, but what I'm saying, is that we don't want those things anyway; any time such a decision will be made, it will be in direst need and with much hemming and hawing anyway, so leaning away from doing that is wise. Get power from the things we *know* we will do, and not from things we only *might* do.
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Yep. Black is the secondary mana, so this assessment might be more or less accurate, but the description gives me the feeling that it's pretty on-the-mark: if Black forges an alliance, it won't be based on friendship. She'll strive to make sure she has some kind of power over the others, whether it's the direct power of actually being stronger or the indirect power of manipulation, coercion, and blackmail. Nah; White clearly has plenty of social issues of her own, but the naked ambition of Black is far more of a liability than a benefit.

(In another context I might have voted Black for the potential redemption arc since I'm a sucker for ambitious assholes becoming more tolerably assholish through the power of friendship, but redemption arcs aren't a good idea when you draw your power from being a bitch and because of that the world will die if you aren't bitchy enough. I think that's how it works, anyway. :V)

Paloneia said:
There is a massive amount of power in good PR and loyalty. If we look and act like a hero, we will be treated like one.
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Black explicitly comes across as insulting and cruel, and doesn't yet have a handle on that. Magical girl culture almost certainly lives off of gossip (rather than the deft work of PR specialists), so personal impressions are crucial to good PR. If I thought Black could pull off Villain Anti-Hero with Good Publicity, I might see it as a more valid option (in terms of alliance-building and trust-gaining), but she's clearly not there yet and she probably won't have the time to get there.

EDIT: also her powers very clearly look bad and evil there's that too

Emanyzal said:
Friendship and camaraderie might be easier for alliances, but backstabbing and power plays are more interesting. Especially if it's done well and with purpose, as opposed to just being petty and evil.
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Backstabbing and power plays can be interesting, but only should be done when you don't have compatible goals or think the other party is surely acting in bad faith (like in international politics :V). In this context, intrigue is wasted effort on obtaining personal power, which at best is effort not being put toward the higher cause of stopping the apocalypse and at worst actively decreases the total power we could put toward that goal (by disempowering others more than we empower ourselves). Besides, White is explicitly capable of backstabbing and power plays if it's in the interests of the Greater Good (and yes, that's exactly as questionable as it sounds).
 
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Shard said:
I think the main power of black would probably be countering witches, as the toxin combo doesn't seems especially usable against Witches. White would probably focus on out-powering Walburgis through internal synergies.
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Pretty much the main appeal, IMO, yeah. And it is definitely tempting.
Sapient_Ham said:
As DeepWaters mentioned, the issue of characterization isn't as... Black and White as many people are portraying it as.
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[Cue "Won't Get Fooled Again" by the Who at the end of the italics]
Sapient_Ham said:
Black is pragmatic, cynical, and ambitious — not antisocial. Regardless of secondary color, the PC's mission is still to keep a group of Magical Girls alive and earn their trust, with the aim of eventually turning them against Kyubey. Black just has the amusing 'perk' of trying to do so with a set of very useful yet evil-seeming powers.

Characterization aside, I'm interested in Green/Black mainly because it's a unique color combination, and we haven't really seen Black used in Ignition yet. Figure the experience will be fresh.
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Fair enough, though we haven't seen all that much White used, either. Personally, I just love the synergy between White and Green. Also, ghost-pets. They make much less of a mess than zombie-pets.
DeepWaters said:
Black explicitly comes across as insulting and cruel, and doesn't yet have a handle on that. Magical girl culture almost certainly lives off of gossip (rather than the deft work of PR specialists), so personal impressions are crucial to good PR. If I thought Black could pull off Villain with Good Publicity, I might see it as a more valid option (in terms of alliance-building and trust-gaining), but she's clearly not there yet and she probably won't have the time to get there.
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Black's personality isn't all that different from the personality of a veteran MG who has seen way too much horror to hold onto their idealism, actually. Similarly, White would likely seem like a newbie, or at least one not aware of the darker side of being a Magical Girl, due to being shy and unsure with social interaction, and not as bitter or cynical.

Now, which of those works better for our purposes, I don't know. Looking like a newbie might get us a teacher/mentor, whereas looking experienced might get us apprentices. Which...would be pretty bad, actually, since we can't actually teach them. But having a similar attitude to them might also help us forge alliances with veterans, so it's still kind of a crap-shoot, honestly.
 
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