[Exalted] The Last Daughter -- Dragon-Blooded Sorcery School Quest

I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more discussion about this. This was one of the first things Ambraea thought of when Mnemon made her offer.
Genuinely? it's because there isn't much to discuss. What needs to be said about it Ambraea has already said, and the fragility of their relationship when paired with Ambraea's own relationship with V'neef (as a matriarch and as a house) has permeated the story since the beginning. Add to the mix the knowledge that, whatever we say here, we *are* talking to her face to face next update, so that topic is definitely gonna come up and be a focus of it; and there isn't many impetus to discuss that angle when compared to discussing the other ramifications of the pitch we just got.
 
Problem here lies with the fact that if Mnemon wins the Throne civil war is likely end even if there is some damage she has both personal and miilitary might to keep a strong center. If somebody else were to get it we might have to go for a round 2 or hell maybe even round 3 before things calm down. On the account of the fact that only thing that is unting opposition against her is their hatret of her.
if the realm moves towards civil war I doubt anyone is in position to end it and solidify the realm under them in one go, whether they seize the capitol or not. it's simply too big an area with too many actors.

Love it, hate it, Mnemon is capable of keeping realm together. Legions would follow her as would breaucracy. And I have no seen anything that says she would be a bad leader. At least I don't think V'neef is her better.
I'm also not convinced Mnemon is the realm's best, last hope. Mnemon definitely believes that. Ambraea who's had her head a bit in the sand doesn't know one way or the other but even then suspects it's far more complicated than Mnemon tries to sell it. I'm pretty sure Mnemon being such a strong, uncompromising contender for the throne is as much to blame for the fact the other houses are willing to go to war to avoid her "I know better" tiger moming the whole realm.

the main point is we shouldn't take the assertions of Mnemon being the only one who can step up and fulfill the role empress spoken from Mnemon's own mouth as undeniable fact without even speaking to the others. it's really kind of vexing that one grandiose monologue set against a cool background is all it takes to get so many people just turning there back on all the hard work we've put into V'neef and Sesus houses without so much as giving them a chance to speak.
And considering the first one that has to be defeated is Mnemon who will fight to bitter end there might not be a Realm after all that.
I'm pretty sure every house that makes itself even a half decent obstacle between Mnemon and the throne is getting crushed. ambraea intuited as much during the update. if things move towards civil war footing, which is likely regardless of which side we pick, several houses are probably going to be wiped out or at least scattered to the four winds.



Do you think she shouldn't? Iselsi has made no bone about the fact that they plan to destroy every great house, they are literally a death cult. At least Maia's branch is. Elders were seeking redemption and was working with Scarlet Empress for it. But with that gone I don't think it will be that long before rest of the house start lashing out to Realm at large. Everybody is going to have to content with them at some point.
I agree they need to be dealt with, absolutely, but Mnemon isn't a comprising solutions kind of Matriarch. there isn't going to be nuanced approach with her. it's the realm murdering Maia's family a second time. maybe that's what it takes, but I don't think jumping into that mindset immediately when their maybe other more tenable options to be presented to Ambraea to come is exactly a healthy mindset to take.

Genuinely? it's because there isn't much to discuss. What needs to be said about it Ambraea has already said, and the fragility of their relationship when paired with Ambraea's own relationship with V'neef (as a matriarch and as a house) has permeated the story since the beginning. Add to the mix the knowledge that, whatever we say here, we *are* talking to her face to face next update, so that topic is definitely gonna come up and be a focus of it; and there isn't many impetus to discuss that angle when compared to discussing the other ramifications of the pitch we just got.
I'd say a good number of voters openly deciding that we should just join Mnemon before having even heard the majority of our options, while the thread is not discussing the fact that this has potential to put a strain on a fair number of Ambraea's relationships, when Ambraea is a character prone to rash acts of devotion towards her loved ones without regard for political or cultural considerations, or parental approval for that matter, is a good deal shortsited, and liable to get us in trouble in the hinted at sequel. it's fine to choose Mnemon, but all the particulars should be discussed, and we should have more than just her offers to discuss.
 
I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more discussion about this. This was one of the first things Ambraea thought of when Mnemon made her offer.

Mainly probably because, as you said, it was mentioned in the narrative. We always knew that V'neef and L'nessa were so involved in our heroine's life because they wanted to bring her to their side in the future. Not because of some unheard-of mercenary attitude in the relationship, it seems like a normal practice, even if it does cause some personal dislike for me. However, yes, it is obvious that V'neef has expectations that Ambrea will prefer her, and that she will be very unhappy if she refuses, and even more so if Ambrea accepts Mnemon's offer. We will most likely see her reaction in the next update.

As for Mnemon herself, meeting her exceeded my expectations, given the things I have heard about her so far. She was quite straightforward and offered Ambrea a deal that was everything she wanted and more because she respects our heroine's abilities and her courage. She also offered to be part of her Great House, and given how involved she is in their affairs, that's worth a lot. Honestly, I'm willing to take her up on her offer, if only to have Ambrea notice how different Mnemon and the Empress are with their children.

We'll see what V'neef has to offer, though I doubt it'll be as good as Mnemon's, especially in terms of protecting the heroine's father. I suspect she might promise a Great House of her own if she wins if Ambrea's contributions are sufficient, but that's something she could have achieved one day anyway.
 
It would be far too convenient for the civil war factions to form in such a way that all the people we like and care about are neatly arranged on one side, now wouldn't it? Like, that's one of the tragedies of the Realm Civil War, that families, friendships and sworn Hearths are going to inevitably find themselves on different sides of the conflict. No matter which side we pick, someone will get hurt.
 
it's really kind of vexing that one grandiose monologue set against a cool background is all it takes to get so many people just turning there back on all the hard work we've put into V'neef and Sesus houses without so much as giving them a chance to speak.
My argument was against rejecting her offer out of hand because she is not fluffy enough. As far as offers go she made pretty decent one. Not as good as I wanted but pretty good.

I am how ever bit offended that you think I am arguing for her over single monologue. I argue for her from reading about her in bunch of books and liking her style even if I think she really needs to get a diplomat capable of both handling her image and capable of telling her to back of and compromise a bit from time to time in order to stop making unneeded enemies.

I'm pretty sure every house that makes itself even a half decent obstacle between Mnemon and the throne is getting crushed. ambraea intuited as much during the update. if things move towards civil war footing, which is likely regardless of which side we pick, several houses are probably going to be wiped out or at least scattered to the four winds.
In counterpoint, nobody is getting to the throne without crushing House Mnemon and Mnemon herself. Considering Mnemon is one of the older and bigger houses led by a competent leader it aint easy.

I agree they need to be dealt with, absolutely, but Mnemon isn't a comprising solutions kind of Matriarch. there isn't going to be nuanced approach with her. it's the realm murdering Maia's family a second time.
We don't know that. Iselsi remnants are protected by the Immaculate Order. If anybody could convince Mnemon to let them redeem themselves it is them. Saying she would killd them all has no basis on anything we saw so far.
 
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I'd say a good number of voters openly deciding that we should just join Mnemon before having even heard the majority of our options, while the thread is not discussing the fact that this has potential to put a strain on a fair number of Ambraea's relationships, when Ambraea is a character prone to rash acts of devotion towards her loved ones without regard for political or cultural considerations, or parental approval for that matter, is a good deal shortsited, and liable to get us in trouble in the hinted at sequel. it's fine to choose Mnemon, but all the particulars should be discussed, and we should have more than just her offers to discuss.
My point was, very quite explicitly, that we don't have all the particulars to be discussed and that, in fact, we are about to get a boatful of new ones.
It simply makes sense that people are not discussing the V'neef and L'nessa angle (a rather exhausted topic already that both nsrrative and readers have engaged with repeatedly) and are instead focused on digesting and incorporating the *new, dense information* that Mnemon literally just dropped on us all at once.
You can't count the cows that haven't got home yet, but you sure as hell are gonna check on the ones that just arrived.
I genuinely don't appreciate this confrontative tone you are taking, especially when we aren't at a critical decision-making injunction but waiting for all the cards to be on the table and discussing the new option in the meantime.
 
We don't know that. Iselsi remnants are protected by the Immaculate Order. If anybody could convince Mnemon to let them redeem themselves it is them. Saying she would killd them all has no basis on anything we saw so far.
Mnemon's backstory and rise is built around a distaste for assassins, which is essentially the Iselsi way of life at this point. As arguably one of if not the pro immaculate order Matriarch, Mnemon is not going to be amenable to her childhood sanctuary from assassins remaining a den of assassins.

My argument was against rejecting her offer out of hand because she is not fluffy enough. As far as offers go she made pretty decent one. Not as good as I wanted but pretty good.
I can agree with that. I too am preaching the keep an open mind. Ultimately I can deal with a blow to our relationship with L'nessa, but I'm gonna have to insist on trying for a Sesus marriage so we have as much excuse possible for visiting Amiti in spite of Mnemon disapproval. Who becomes Empress is meaningless before our continued association with the realms most traumatizing cinnamon bun.
I am how ever bit offended that you think I am arguing for her over single monologue. I argue for her from reading about her in bunch of books and liking her style even if I think she really needs to get a diplomat capable of both handling her image and capable of telling her to back of and compromise a bit from time to time in order to stop making unneeded enemies.
That bit was more aimed at the thread in general which has a lot of people just speaking up in favor of joining Mnemon outright.

In counterpoint, nobody is getting to the throne without crushing House Mnemon and Mnemon herself. Considering Mnemon is one of the older and bigger houses led by a competent leader it aint easy.
I don't an ascent to the dragon throne can be described as easy, under any circumstances.
It would be far too convenient for the civil war factions to form in such a way that all the people we like and care about are neatly arranged on one side, now wouldn't it? Like, that's one of the tragedies of the Realm Civil War, that families, friendships and sworn Hearths are going to inevitably find themselves on different sides of the conflict. No matter which side we pick, someone will get hurt.
Definitely, it just people rushing into things before we've seen what's on the table that's the problem. We are far likely to have an option that let's us be nominally less immediately against as many people as Mnemon puts us against by virtue of the coalition against her. Like, Sesus Raenyah isn't even hoping to get the throne. She want's to put someone else there.
We'll see what V'neef has to offer, though I doubt it'll be as good as Mnemon's, especially in terms of protecting the heroine's father. I suspect she might promise a Great House of her own if she wins if Ambrea's contributions are sufficient, but that's something she could have achieved one day anyway.
Apparently that's something Ambraea can earn with either would be empress and neither of them will ever offer it outright. I'm definitely interested in seeing what everyone wants to discuss with Ambraea, especially Sesus. The possibility of being stuck in a Sesus Fortress labyrinth experimenting in sorcery with Amiti is really tempting if the deal is good.
 
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