[Exalted] The Last Daughter -- Dragon-Blooded Sorcery School Quest

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[X] The Hall of Triumphal Glory
Someone who did well enough that at first they earned fame and a monument to their success, only to end up ignored and forgotten. There's something poetic about the potential parallels with Ambraea, who's done quite well in the first part of her life so far. Hopefully she can come to a better end.
 
Someone who did well enough that at first they earned fame and a monument to their success, only to end up ignored and forgotten. There's something poetic about the potential parallels with Ambraea, who's done quite well in the first part of her life so far. Hopefully she can come to a better end.
This was kinda what I was trying to get at with my thematic reading but maybe I got up into the weeds: that Mnemon is gonna "elevate" and "honor" Ambraea... and then what? What's gonna happen to her in the wake of Mnemon's tide? I keep going back to that conversation about how Mnemon never left one single of Rulinsei's projects untouched, never let them stand on their own worth for good or ill, even if her modification was a strict improvement. Of course, survival and prosperity is paramount in this moment, but this is also illustrative of how such a relationship will work, and I think its also something Ambraea does and will care about, and probably resent, given how she has reacted to similarly cordial gestures from V'neef in a much less obligating situation I have drawn a parallel between them, that gonna give them gray hairs

This, I must clarify, is not me expressing my opinion or preference or what I consider is happening or will happen, but rather simply my reading on one of the facets of the dynamic at play and how characters may choose to see it and present it. Think of it as one of the destinies our convention is currently reviewing.
 
Yea "adopting a sister at 30" and "adopting a sister at 400 as the Empress" are pretty different things. If Mnennon succeeds as being Empress, then as her adopted daughter we're as close to our previous position as possible, in that we have a chance to impress with our competence to get a Great House. Except it's not our Mother we're impressing.

Whether we want to take it, Mnennon offering "the same" terms is a very good deal, given how much greater Mnennons position is now to the last time she made this offer.
 
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I suppose it is right that nobody is going to make or see Ambrea as important until she makes herself important.

And Mnemon is not asking much beyond giving up on taking the throne in return for what she is offering. In the future Ambrea can still do all the things she dreamt of. Not like Mnemon would sabotage her.

There are two things we must examine in this stiuation. First is would Mnemon make a good empress or would somebody else be better option? Second is who is making the best offer.

Answer these two questions and we got our answer to who to support. It is not like we really have horse in the race aside from our V'neef friend.

What's gonna happen to her in the wake of Mnemon's tide?
Rising tide lifts all the ships.
 
I'm not convinced V'neef will be at the meeting. She's definetly busy, Ambraea isnt actually that important, and she knows Ambraea personally dislikes her. We're definetly gonna get an offer from her but L'nessa might be delivering it solo
Having Mnemon meet Ambraea once and snatch her out from V'neef after she spent 7 years courting her would be a major blow to V'neef's reputation, which is something she can't afford with the dragon throne on the line.
And L'nessa would never forgive you. Maybe in a different, less volatile time she might have understood, but now, when her family must have a very real worry of what Mnemon might do without the Empress to restrain her? You have no doubt of exactly how badly she'd take it. L'nessa is not your Hearthmate, but she is still a dear friend, and you can't bring yourself to dismiss the concern out of hand. "I'm certain you're also aware of the ties I have been building to House V'neef. Your disagreements are public knowledge."
There is a reason Ambraea is concerned about L'nessa's reaction. Even if it isn't a direct scheduled meeting, V'neef concluding business early and making time for her see daughter and taking over the tale end of the meeting is an entirely reasonable thing to happen that doesn't seem heavy handed or desperate.

To be clear, I'm not actually sure where people are getting the idea that this is somehow Mnemon's standard offer
I think mainly because the benchmark we are using is Rulinsei, another imperial daughter she adopted into her main family and gave roughly what she's offered Ambraea. A person who, for all their many accomplishments across a long life, approached Mnemon as maimed 16 year old hounded by assassin's and with no one to turn to, and no great accomplishments to her name at the time.

Ambraea is more accomplished, has survived things Rulinsei wouldn't have, and has far more options, so it feels reasonable that her more solid foundation warrants greater investment from Mnemon than Rulinsei got. Maybe there is nuance and context we are dismissing about Ambraea connections and origins that make this a harder thing for Mnemon to offer than it was for Rulinsei.

Maybe we are spoiled from having read so many pov's of Ambraea while she had only grandiose expectations of her future and the bleaker views of late have been lost somewhat in the romance and emotional Hearthmate drama, or maybe we just hoped we could have our cake(Mnemon tutelage) and eat it too (A degree of flexibility to maintain our connections).
This was kinda what I was trying to get at with my thematic reading but maybe I got up into the weeds: that Mnemon is gonna "elevate" and "honor" Ambraea... and then what? What's gonna happen to her in the wake of Mnemon's tide? I keep going back to that conversation about how Mnemon never left one single of Rulinsei's projects untouched, never let them stand on their own worth for good or ill, even if her modification was a strict improvement. Of course, survival and prosperity is paramount in this moment, but this is also illustrative of how such a relationship will work, and I think its also something Ambraea does and will care about, and probably resent, given how she has reacted to similarly cordial gestures from V'neef in a much less obligating situation I have drawn a parallel between them, that gonna give them gray hairs

This, I must clarify, is not me expressing my opinion or preference or what I consider is happening or will happen, but rather simply my reading on one of the facets of the dynamic at play and how characters may choose to see it and present it. Think of it as one of the destinies our convention is currently reviewing.
It's a very prudent one. Mnemon, a fairly rigid, pro immaculate order and immaculate text Matriarch, is offering Guidance in sorcerous art to Ambraea. This does not begin and end at showing her some tricks to manipulate earth essence and the best ways to exploit dragon lines.

Mnemon will have very set in her way views about how one conducts business with spirits, about the directions Ambraea would be best served taking her sorcery, and how much one should associate with the likes of necromancers and other less than acceptable practitioners of sorcery. Keric & Deizil's situation in particular comes to mind.

After how hands off first DCP and heptogram instructors have been I'm not sure how well Ambraea would handle such an overbearing mentor, and having all she does just ever so slightly interfered with by Mnemon would certain grate on Ambraea's pride more than on Rulinsei.
Rising tide lifts all the ships.
I think tide analogies don't quite suit Mnemon. Ore works better. Is Mnemon sturdy jadesteel capable of holding the realm together, or is she some other overly ridged and brittle alloy with too little give to not shatter, or perhaps an overly heavy and impractical metal that restricts movement and limits the realms options? Whatever the case, we have to keep in mind the differences between her and Ambraea and which of them will have to suffer the others opinions and demands in this situation.
 
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I don't think "mnemon has power, vneef has political chops" stands up very well as a theory of their differences. Mnemon is one of the most successful politicians in the history of the Realm and she commands incredible loyalty. She does that in a very crisp, solid, Earthy way, and from a commanding position, and that's less surface level charming than V'neef's warmth. That's different from not being good at politics.

If Mnemon didn't exist, I don't think V'neef would be a major contender at all. Maybe in a few centuries. But in the present day, the strength of her claim is that she is the most convenient locus for an anti-Mnemon coalition, not that her personal political network is peer to her sister's. She has appeal exactly because Mnemon's lead is so dominant than anyone who wants anything else needs to aggressively band together, or accept the Realm splitting apart (in a way few are ready to do at the point we're at in the story, and in a way they may never do in some RCW scenarios).
 
[X] Jinmei Tower

I have no strong opinions on which course to take. Imperial family drama is our birthright. It is only proper that we indulge whensoever we can, and both accepting and refusing Mnemon are thus equally satisfactory to me.
 
I think mainly because the benchmark we are using is Rulinsei, another imperial daughter she adopted into her main family and gave roughly what she's offered Ambraea. A person who, for all their many accomplishments across a long life, approached Mnemon as maimed 16 year old hounded by assassin's and with no one to turn to, and no great accomplishments to her name at the time.
I think the difference is that while Rulinsei had less to offer to Mnemon than Ambraea, Mnemon was also in a much weaker position then than she is now. After all, Mnemon would have been what, in her late 20s when she adopted Rulinsei? With a freshly-founded household and Ragara still in the middle of his murder spree? Contrast to now when Mnemon is a 400-year old Great House Matriarch, frontrunner to become Empress and probably the single most powerful woman in the Realm.
 
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[X] Jinmei Tower

I have no strong opinions on which course to take. Imperial family drama is our birthright. It is only proper that we indulge whensoever we can, and both accepting and refusing Mnemon are thus equally satisfactory to me.
I mean, it's more than just drama. Mnemon is a very traditionalist Geomantic Mandala Sorceress and stringent follower of Immaculate texts. Some of Ambraea's approach to sorcery is going to clash with Mnemon's sensibilities. This could be a problem when Ambraea would be placing herself in Mnemon's authority and over site. It would be a boon to Ambraea's sorcery, but it would be a boon taking her in directions different than questers have favored thus far. Hence why it's important to be discerning in which of these individuals Ambraea ties herself to and submits to the authority of.
 
I doubt that Memnon is going to feel the need to micromanage our sorcerous studies.
I wouldn't be so assured, her 3e characterization has her cultivate personal loyalty within her house by making personal connections with her various children, grandchildren and such, supporting them when necessary and deserved and similarly chastising them when failed. She's presented as half matronly doting grandma and half immortal tiger mother, and we have already seen facets of that in her treatment of Keric and his relationship with Deizil. There's sure to be distance due to her status as matriarch, but she's much more personally involved than the medium, except possibly V'neef. Besides, we are gonna be under greater scrutiny as an adult adoptee than someone who she had a hand in raising.

Not to say she's gonna be on us 24/7 Eye of Sauron like, but she's characterized as keeping a tighter ship than most and she also takes her Immaculate Piety very seriously.
 
I think the difference is that while Rulinsei had less to offer to Mnemon than Ambraea, Mnemon was also in a much weaker position then than she is now. After all, Mnemon would have been what, in her late 20s when she adopted Rulinsei? With a freshly-founded household and Ragara still in the middle of his murder spree? Contrast to now when Mnemon is a 400-year old Great House Matriarch, frontrunner to become Empress and probably the single most powerful woman in the Realm.
It just feels like the gap between Rulinsei at 16 and Ambraea now is greater than Mnemon then and Mnemon, primarily because Ambraea has four good option for living a decently long life as someone connected to a powerful house, foreign or otherwise, and becoming an accomplished sorceress while Rulinsei had no one but Mnemon.

The whole survived Anathema twice over and having graduated the heptogram don't make it feel any closer, and Mnemon becoming empress is not nearly so certain as she tells herself. Maybe it's just harder to take Rulinsei seriously with Mnemon personally making some small adjustments to everything she's ever done that's undeniably an improvement. Ultimately it isn't easy to reconcile in my mind.
I doubt that Memnon is going to feel the need to micromanage our sorcerous studies.
Micromanage? Probably not. Gift her a somewhat more extensive copy of the immaculate texts, cherry pick what manner of guidance she provides, and arrange for someone within her house to keep a close eye on the resources and knowledge being made available to her? A good deal more probable given her background and noted beliefs.
 
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It just feels like the gap between Rulinsei at 16 and Ambraea now is greater than Mnemon then and Mnemon, primarily because Ambraea has four good option for living a decently long life as someone connected to a powerful house, foreign or otherwise, and becoming an accomplished sorceress while Rulinsei had no one but Mnemon

Ambraea is 23. You seriously think the difference between a 16 year old and 23 year old in status is greater than between a 30 year old and 400 year old? Protagonist centred viewpoint much.
 
I keep going back to that conversation about how Mnemon never left one single of Rulinsei's projects untouched, never let them stand on their own worth for good or ill, even if her modification was a strict improvement.
Specifically the projects that Rulinsei shows her. She could make something on her own and not seek Mnemon's feedback -- she knows what will happen if she shows Mnemon a manse design, Mnemon will improve it. They've known each other for well over three and a half centuries, they have a dynamic.

Generally, yes, though, Mnemon is a chronic micromanager where her family is concerned.
 
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Specifically the projects that Rulinsei shows her. She could make something on her own and not seek Mnemon's feedback -- she knows what will happen if she shows Mnemon a manse design, Mnemon will improve it. They've known each other for well over three and a half centuries, they have a dynamic.
Oh definitely, and I got def carried away in my original post; but it's honestly the fact that it's a dynamic at all that stuck with me, that that's the shape their relationship took even now when they are both accomplished adults on top of being family.
 
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