Also, we'll benefit more from getting The Truth or an EFB on our Dao sooner rather than later, and we'll want to buy one of those soon. We don't want to delay those things too long. We're on a time limit.
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Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Also, we'll benefit more from getting The Truth or an EFB on our Dao sooner rather than later, and we'll want to buy one of those soon. We don't want to delay those things too long. We're on a time limit.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
FB Vault is amazing - But we don't need that sort of amazingness. 1 BP Vault is more than sufficient for what we need. 3 BP doesn't significantly increase our power over 1 BP to make it really worthwhile.
Again: BP is our limiting factor in power growth. Not time or cash.
Again: BP is our limiting factor in power growth. Not time or cash.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
But we aren't spending BP on Truth, surely? We went to all that trouble to get the MM discount on it!
Because there's no way we'll have 10 BP by the dungeon update? Like, there is no way that happens.
The Priceless Treasures are not limited to Time or cash. Though to be honest, at this point cash seems... pretty much irrelevant?
Reiterating incorrect statement won't make it any more correct.
.. time is very much single most important resource we have. BP's are relevant in so far they allow us to do more in less time.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh
If the Tomb wins, and it looks like it's going to, we're going to get minimal additional benefit from having FB right this second since Suizhen isn't going to be spending much time grinding in there* because of how relatively close it is, and we'll want to have some BP with us in case there are any limited opportunity offers for BP spending.
*insert chrishansen.jpg here
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh
If the Tomb wins, and it looks like it's going to, we're going to get minimal additional benefit from having FB right this second since Suizhen isn't going to be spending much time grinding in there* because of how relatively close it is, and we'll want to have some BP with us in case there are any limited opportunity offers for BP spending.
*insert chrishansen.jpg here
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Did you mean to vote here? You need to put X's in your boxes if you did.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Don't forget that Palimpest will eventually, when we EFB it, allow us to remove the Eyes of Kong. If you are at all interested in fighting Kong, this is absolutely crucial. The alternative is that he can plan his moves, essentially, with perfect information. That is VERY BAD, unless we utterly outclass him. Which we are unlikely to do.
Also we get to be basically a war-god in flesh.
Which is AWESOME.
4.9+2.0+2 = 8.9, for example.
Also we get to be basically a war-god in flesh.
Which is AWESOME.
We can create Priceless Treasures due to our Artificing. By Reality Forming, we'll be making artifacts at:
4.9+2.0+2 = 8.9, for example.
We could have been Beyonded Dao Cleaving now, but the thread opted to wait. We can convert BP to time, we cannot convert them back.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Why isn't Suizhen spending much time in there?
Sure, but every Artefact we've made has been amazing, and this is a constant stream of them as strong as the best we've ever had. Forging our own also takes a not inconsiderable amount of time, too.
EDIT: And, of course, the Treasures scale. When we're forging 8.9 Artefacts, we'll also be getting 8.9 Treasures.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Also, to our immediate situation, it is highly unlikely for Vault to actually help significantly in the Tomb.
3 BP Vault is... unneeded and overkill. Exactly how much use is storing an empire going to help us? How much help does immunity to Fate really help? It grant great indirect protection from losing through the empires falling, yes, but we'd have to convince an entire freaking empire to enter the Phylactery, and it doesn't improve our power level.
Why, instead we could forge a single artifact that minimizes collateral damage and be done with it! Instead of spending 2 BP for options that do not immediately improve our power.
But we only need 1 BP Vault for that.
3 BP Vault is... unneeded and overkill. Exactly how much use is storing an empire going to help us? How much help does immunity to Fate really help? It grant great indirect protection from losing through the empires falling, yes, but we'd have to convince an entire freaking empire to enter the Phylactery, and it doesn't improve our power level.
Why, instead we could forge a single artifact that minimizes collateral damage and be done with it! Instead of spending 2 BP for options that do not immediately improve our power.
DonutAttack
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- The factory of pastries
Tally:
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Thank you.
The Tomb is in Vane, which means minimal travel time and we'll be adventuring, not training. The other options involve months of both, which means we'd be getting a lot more utility out of an upgraded Vault. This, combined with the one time BP spending opportunities we might find in there means that I'd rather save up.
On the other hand, if we spend it now, we won't be able to spend it on any 1 BP or FB options, meaning we'd get maximum efficiency by only spending on EFBs.
Hmm.
Having a safe place to rest and store supplies in a deathtrap isn't going to be helpful? Are you sure?
It's a necessary precondition to not lose instantly, for one.
This doesn't exactly seem like a trivial task, if it's even possible.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
@Deathbybunnies Mastermind points have non truth uses too. I see no issue with a 3-4 or 4-3 spending pattern currently.
Unrelated/Inspired By RedV's Dao Ideas(Original - Even Further Beyond | Page 618):
Fractal Genesis
Wheels within wheels within wheels. A multitude of simple schemes that in conjunction lead to something greater. That was what his father taught him. As go schemes, so go the world. As above, so below.
A realm of fractal beasts within, that grow as you do. Forever and ever. And you can let them out.
Concepts: Information is beyond Space or Time. Overwhelming Numbers. Recursion. Corruption from within?
Inner World: Pick a Mandelbulb 3d animation. Let's use this one as an example.
Sample Effects/Specialties:
Unrelated/Inspired By RedV's Dao Ideas(Original - Even Further Beyond | Page 618):
Fractal Genesis
Wheels within wheels within wheels. A multitude of simple schemes that in conjunction lead to something greater. That was what his father taught him. As go schemes, so go the world. As above, so below.
A realm of fractal beasts within, that grow as you do. Forever and ever. And you can let them out.
Concepts: Information is beyond Space or Time. Overwhelming Numbers. Recursion. Corruption from within?
Inner World: Pick a Mandelbulb 3d animation. Let's use this one as an example.
Sample Effects/Specialties:
- Information needs no Medium: Even denied a medium in which to exist, the rules that generate a fractal remain constant. Nameless can ignore the spatiotemporal attacks of any people up to one stage above his combat strength.
- Recursive Strike: As a fractal being, no attack made by nameless only happens once. A physical attack made by nameless benefiting from this effect can occur a number of simultaneous times equal to his cultivation strength.
- Inner World Invasion: If you can breach the ego barrier of a Cultivator above Reality Forming, you may release your beasts into their inner world to attack their cultivation base.
- Nesting Dolls: No matter how far you zoom, Nameless remains constant. Gain the Legion Form from Gardens of Enoch as a Reality Effect.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
1. Convincing an entire empire to enter the phylactery is not a trivial task.
2. A vault that contains an entire empire is not a vault that is suited to spawning monsters for us to fight.
The things we want from the vault are anti-synergistic. They are suboptimal when taken in unison.
Meanwhile, my point about us wanting to fight Zang Kong while allowing him perfect info about us and a potentially very serious backdoor of instantdeath remains unanswered.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
The treasures will be stronger and more numerous if we can spend as much as 7 on the relevant stats.
That's a pretty cool Dao concept.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA, United States
After sleeping on it I'm going to go with this:
[X] Journey to the West
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharoah
-[X] Go Further Beyond
I want to go with this for a few reasons. First off, we know our overarching goal is to preserve the Empire, and as such the Vault is needed - it's just a question of when it's needed. The real decision lies in the second half of the vote. If the goal is solely to preserve the Empire in it's current state than Journeying to the Center and destroying the Sects and capturing the remnants and bringing them into the Vault. New heads will be appointed (assuming any die when the bloody path is carved).
But, ultimately, I decided to go to the Elves.
If we manage to convince them (hopefully through peaceful means) to move into the Vault than the Elves can be the moral backbone for the new empire of man we form.
I don't think cutting a bloody swath through the Empire is the way to preserve it.
[X] Journey to the West
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharoah
-[X] Go Further Beyond
I want to go with this for a few reasons. First off, we know our overarching goal is to preserve the Empire, and as such the Vault is needed - it's just a question of when it's needed. The real decision lies in the second half of the vote. If the goal is solely to preserve the Empire in it's current state than Journeying to the Center and destroying the Sects and capturing the remnants and bringing them into the Vault. New heads will be appointed (assuming any die when the bloody path is carved).
But, ultimately, I decided to go to the Elves.
If we manage to convince them (hopefully through peaceful means) to move into the Vault than the Elves can be the moral backbone for the new empire of man we form.
I don't think cutting a bloody swath through the Empire is the way to preserve it.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh
Gah. The Vault can hold our Lackeys within us so that we don't waste time bothering about their sorry asses in there, so I have to vote for it. It's sad, these circumstances that make me betraymy waifu Palimpsest.
I-I'm sorry, Palimpsest! You were and are the bestwaifu Diagram, but we need to baby our Lackeys once more, and I want to save BP...
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh
Gah. The Vault can hold our Lackeys within us so that we don't waste time bothering about their sorry asses in there, so I have to vote for it. It's sad, these circumstances that make me betray
I-I'm sorry, Palimpsest! You were and are the best
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Rihaku
The Internet
Hey guys, remember that you can't take Palimpsest EFB unless you make it your Liminal Diagram. Only the spell you pick will have its EFB unlocked (FB + EFB for Vault). Also, I see a lot of talk about saving up for a great Dao; if that's your priority, you shouldn't be looking for potential multipliers in the Tomb (since you're bottlenecked at peak Dao Cleaving anyway), but rather paying a visit to the Elves! There's no synergy in going to the Tomb if you can't Cultivate past Dao Cleaving!
All the EFBs in this update are considered discounted, I'm not sure where you got the idea otherwise.
Note that the low end goes much lower than .5 BPs for your current power level.
You can't boost Attributes lower than 5 with an Artifact unless you make an Artifact that gives no more than 2 Design Points, as mentioned earlier.
You can't enter Vaults with a Hab of 1, they can contain items only. Also, remember that Hab influences respawn speed!
All the EFBs in this update are considered discounted, I'm not sure where you got the idea otherwise.
Note that the low end goes much lower than .5 BPs for your current power level.
You can't boost Attributes lower than 5 with an Artifact unless you make an Artifact that gives no more than 2 Design Points, as mentioned earlier.
You can't enter Vaults with a Hab of 1, they can contain items only. Also, remember that Hab influences respawn speed!
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
...I have to wonder. Why are people convinced that Zang Kong can kill us with having the eyes in us? May I remind you that SUIZHEN was the one Fate intended on at the least help kill Zang? You know, the KONG WITH KONG EYES.
...neither do I actually.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Suizhen, not having met us, would have fate on her side to counter the effects. For all we know Palimpest is fate helping us.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
He said (and we OOC know this for sure) that he can read our mind and memories with the Eyes, and so knows everything we know? And that once he's out of his cocoon we strongly suspect could have done more?
Suizhen was merely one of four-five Age of Glory Heroines intended to kill Kong, also. Good chance she'd be a heroic sacrifice/mindcontrolled by Kong into betrayal. After all, literally every one of the Heroines is aimed at Kong!
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Suizhen was a distraction at most. Zang Kong has proven able to read our mind with the eyes even while in his cocoon - that's a huge disadvantage in a fight, and he can likely do more out of it.
I'm reasonably confident we'll find another way to remove them later, but it's a valid concern.
That seems pretty out there, considering that BP stuff appears to be our trump card Fate didn't anticipate.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
And us fighting Zang Kong, getting Fated Overlord, is not Fate helping both us and her to counter those effects?
Though you may be right about Palimpest.
...hm, wonder how Truth Seeking Eyes will work once we obtain Truth.
Also, as we obtain Palimpest, I can see the argument of going Beast body. Why not use the Eyes to our advantage after all? Especially while we can use them as a benefit.
Also, @Rihaku by the time that the six week party ends, how recovered will be Suizhen's Cultivation Base?